The Google AI robot is getting pretty sophisticated. For a helpful (and very fast) summary, nicely laid out and with perfect grammar, try asking a question in the following form (for example):

"What are the main attributes of [manufacturer's name] with [such-and-such a valve] for bass trombones?"

Or ask for a comparison. For example, I tried:

"What are the main attributes of Bach vs. Conn for bass trombones?"

The robot threw in some comparisons with other makes, as well.

She seems to boil down facts and opinions quite well—and usually points out which are which.

It is also a very "woke" robot, I typed in something that it decided was racist (it was something actually pretty harmless, not recallng precisely what the search was), which made it clutch its virtual pearls.

The robot has a policy, it seems.

Were you asking it about South African farmers?

Show us your prompts and results!!!

Seriously, though, it can be helpful in summarising information. For example, a current topic on another thread on TromboneChat concerns the current business status of Conn-Selmer. When I asked the AI Robot about pros and cons concerning that, particularly with regard to trombones, it gave the following summary. [Clearly some of this is based on the company's promotional literature, and some from TromboneChat itself.]

AI Overview

Conn-Selmer, as a major player in the musical instrument industry, especially for brass instruments like trombones, presents a mix of pros and cons in its business status:

Pros:

¥ Broad Brand Portfolio: Conn-Selmer encompasses a wide range of renowned instrument brands like Conn, Bach, and King, catering to various playing levels, from student to professional.

¥ Dominant Market Position: They are described as the largest manufacturer and importer of band and orchestral instruments in the United States. This gives them a significant market share and reach.

¥ Strong Educational Focus: A substantial portion of their sales are attributed to serving the educational sector, providing instruments for school bands and music programs. Their Division of Education actively engages with music educators and students.

¥ Commitment to Quality: Despite potential inconsistencies, Conn-Selmer emphasizes a passion for quality and exceeding customer expectations. 

Cons:

¥ Inconsistent Quality Control: Some anecdotal evidence suggests potential issues with quality control, particularly concerning the consistency of their trombones, such as slide quality.

¥ Impact of Global Events: The COVID-19 pandemic significantly disrupted the musical instrument market, and challenges like production issues and potential shortages may persist.

¥ Price and Value Perception: Some discussion suggests that the price of new Conn-Selmer instruments, especially trombones, may not always justify the potential inconsistency in quality, leading some musicians to prefer used instruments.

¥ Loss of Skilled Workforce: A past strike and subsequent events may have impacted the company's skilled workforce, potentially affecting the quality of instruments produced. 

Specific to Trombones:

¥ Variability within Models: Even within the same trombone model, there can be noticeable differences in quality and playability between individual instruments. This highlights the importance of trying out an instrument before purchasing.

¥ Preference for Vintage Instruments: Some players express a preference for older Conn-Selmer trombones due to a perceived higher quality or consistency in craftsmanship.

¥ Slide Quality Concerns: Reports mention issues with slide quality in some new Conn and King trombones, suggesting that they might require additional work or setup out of the box. 

In summary, Conn-Selmer offers a wide range of trombones under popular brands and holds a strong market position. However, potential inconsistencies in manufacturing and quality control, especially concerning slides, are concerns that musicians consider when making purchasing decisions.

Here's another interesting one. I asked about the main attributes, pro and con, of the helical grooves on the Meinlschmidt Open Flow valve spindles, compared with traditional bearings. [I didn't mention anything about the patented design.] Here's what turned up:

AI Overview

The helical grooves in the spindles of the Meinlschmidt Open Flow Valve serve a key purpose in its lubrication system.

Here's a breakdown of their attributes compared to traditional bearings: 

Attributes of Helical Grooves in Meinlschmidt Open Flow Valve:

• Improved Lubrication: The spiral design facilitates the distribution of lubrication oil throughout the bearing shanks, ensuring a consistent oil film.

• Smoother Action: The enhanced lubrication provided by the helical grooves results in a smoother action of the valve rotors.

• Potential for Reduced Wear: By maintaining a constant oil film, the helical grooves could potentially minimize wear on the rotor and related components. 

Pros of Helical Grooves (compared to traditional bearings):

• Consistent Lubrication: Ensures a more even and effective lubrication throughout the bearing.

• Potentially Extended Lifespan: Better lubrication can lead to less wear and tear, potentially increasing the valve's lifespan.

• Smoother Valve Action: The increased lubrication contributes to a smoother and more responsive valve action. 

Cons of Helical Grooves (compared to traditional bearings):

• Complexity of Manufacturing: The helical groove design might be more complex to manufacture compared to simpler bearing designs.

• Potential for Maintenance Challenges: While routine oiling is straightforward, accessing and cleaning the grooves during in-depth maintenance might require specialized tools or knowledge.

• Proprietary Technology: The helical groove system is a patented feature of the Meinlschmidt valves, which could potentially limit options for repair or replacement of parts from third parties. 

In contrast to traditional bearings:

• Traditional bearings typically rely on lubrication applied to the surface, which may not ensure as consistent oil distribution as the helical grooves.

• Helical grooves are designed to distribute oil efficiently via a spiral channel, whereas traditional bearings may lack this feature. 

Overall, the helical grooves are a notable feature of the Meinlschmidt Open Flow Valve, primarily aimed at improving lubrication for a smoother and potentially longer-lasting valve action. However, potential challenges related to manufacturing complexity and maintenance access should be considered.

These AI answers always have the air of a high school paper, written the night before it was due, on assigned material skimmed but not read.

It is a better than that, even if overhyped: For common topics and basic ideas, the ideas tend to be reasonably right and better written than a high school paper. The logical argument can be flawed and some facts can be off. But generally good writing and reasonable information.

For more specialized topics, facts and logic become more garbled, approaching last minute efforts (though mroe college than high school), but still better written.

When you get to something that takes expertise, the answers can become very superficial or total nonsense. Apparently now google AI knows a bit more about trombones that it did last year about steel guitars (another trickier instrument with less material for training). But way too many people take the output from large language models as insights rather than the result of a random assocation of words that correspond to existing patterns.

[quote="robcat2075"]These AI answers always have the air of a high school paper, written the night before it was due, on assigned material skimmed but not read.[/quote]
Definitely not my experience with ChatGPT recently. I've put it through some pretty aggressive questioning and would rate it (and I mean the "low end" "no cost" version) as at the level of a solid graduate student (well, maybe a bit better) in technical subjects in which I'm supposedly expert. My son (I think his company may pay for it) has access to the higher end versions and models. They're very good. I do wonder when the last time was that you read a "high school paper". Last time (about a decade ago) when I taught a university class, the papers were just dreadful in terms of grammar, organization, and expression. ChatGPT would have done much better than any student in that class. :lol:

Generative AI is making astonishing progress in creating generic music. Even more so than LLM, I think, as it combines music making with song writing. The resulting tracks sound very professionally produced, so for generic production (commercials, low budget film soundtracks, etc.) AI is becoming hard to beat. That works best for style/cliches that are common. Convincing jazz tracks, especially with trumpet, saxophone, piano are possible. As a genre, Indie pop/rock comes out particularly convincing and sometimes actually good. Yet, like with LLMs, there are holes: Trombone is one - and maybe that goes back to an earlier thread I started for the limited audience about trombone. Less material to train on. The AI machines I use are incapable of dealing with trombone, also don't understand steel guitar, maybe a similarly underdocumented instrument. Here was my best attempt to get to trombone content, a number of different attemtps. Most didn't result in anything even remotely trombone like, not even in the background. This is a track that came closest, it is not bad on its own terms. And this is purely AI generated, I put no other effort into it beyond a few instructions.

[url]https://suno.com/@fiddlefestival

Most often, without more specific instructions, AI creates a generic pop song and only the lyrics reflect the prompts (not the music), one particularly funny attempt - and an indication of LLM's general lack of understanding:

"[Verse]

Trombone leads the morning light

Golden notes take flight tonight

I’m walking streets that hum with sound

Where melodies just spin around

[Chorus]

Blow my mind with every slide

Trombone soul that cannot hide

Sing your heart through brass and gold

Every note feels bold and cold"

[quote="fiddlefestival"]And generative AI is making astonishing progress in creating generic music. Even more so than LLM.[/quote]

I'm curious about what you mean by this. How do you draw the distinction between generative AI and and LLM? (I should note that ChatGPT -- at least the low-end free version -- gets this wrong.) I'm trying to get a better grip on how people see these things.

I'm talking about generative AI for music. ChatGPT and higher end LLM are generative AI, of course, but primarily for text, whereas the link above was an AI generated jazz band arrangement. Check it out, it imitates a brass section well, but still fails on the "trombone" side.

Here is a "classical" piece, again 100% AI generated, no human input. it gets closer to the idea of a trombone. A lay audience might think it is trombone, but probably won't fool you. I think it isn't playable on a trombone nor sound like one, but I'm not an expert. Maybe more French horn, or Euphonium/Baritone or who knows what because at the end, it is AI-generated. https://suno.com/s/UydBonRRrbQ1VCAQ

[quote="fiddlefestival"]ChatGPT and higher end LLM are generative AI, of course, but primarily for text,[/quote]
Thanks. I've had the feeling that this is how a lot of people think of it.

An AI translation of a Russian/German language trombone method.

I totally concede this is not like the work you'd get from a high school student.

[quote="fiddlefestival"]Here is a "classical" piece, again 100% AI generated, no human input. it gets closer to the idea of a trombone. A lay audience might think it is trombone, but probably won't fool you. I think it isn't playable on a trombone nor sound like one, but I'm not an expert. Maybe more French horn, or Euphonium/Baritone or who knows what because at the end, it is AI-generated. https://suno.com/s/UydBonRRrbQ1VCAQ[/quote]

Yes, the timbre sounds like a trombone most of the time but it's not idiomatic trombone writing. It's writing for the trombone the same way it writes for the oboe.

Classical, baroque, harpsichord, choir, trombone

I wonder if it even knows it put an oboe in there but no choir.

[quote="robcat2075"]An AI translation of a Russian/German language trombone method.

I totally concede this is not like the work you'd get from a high school student.[/quote]
:lol: Well, that form of "criticism" of AI broadly construed seems pretty desperate -- and doesn't appear to apply to systems like ChatGPT at all. But if it makes you feel better about how undependable and useless AI is, I suppose there's no harm in it. I don't think it's going to keep most of us from using AI and its increasing capabilities (even with the same degree of critical assessment that we should direct towards human "experts"). But everyone has to follow his own path. :)

Another AI answer that only resembles an answer...

question: How many community bands and orchestras in America?

Google AI: There are approximately 2,500 community bands in the United States. Additionally, there are over 1,000 community bands...

Both sentences can be true, but it's a doubtful answer.

Google AI just likes to hear its own voice, they try to make it seem as human as possible.

[quote="robcat2075"]Another AI answer that only resembles an answer...

question: How many community bands and orchestras in America?

Google AI: There are approximately 2,500 community bands in the United States. Additionally, there are over 1,000 community bands...

Both sentences can be true, but it's a doubtful answer.[/quote]
I don't know where you got this from -- what "Google AI" you're using. It's not what I get (using exactly the question that you asked your AI) from either the AI built into the Google Search engine or the ChatGPT AI, both of which are much more complete answers without any hint of contradiction.