Mouthpiece for 70h
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
What's your favorite mouthpiece for the 70h?
A few days ago I got a really nice Conn 70h from Daniel (swisstbone). It seems to be all original, incl the Remington shank receiver.
I have tried a few pieces and currently use the same as on my Greenhoe, 62h and 112h (but with a Remington shank). MST STUDIO R2 N which is based on a typical GR piece, roughly 1 1/4 G size.
I would be curious what you are using and why.
A few days ago I got a really nice Conn 70h from Daniel (swisstbone). It seems to be all original, incl the Remington shank receiver.
I have tried a few pieces and currently use the same as on my Greenhoe, 62h and 112h (but with a Remington shank). MST STUDIO R2 N which is based on a typical GR piece, roughly 1 1/4 G size.
I would be curious what you are using and why.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
The couple I've played REALLY wanted something 1 1/2G or smaller. But it's also been a while, and many of those (probably not yours) have had the Remington receiver bashed into a Morse just from using the wrong shank for 60+ years.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
When I had one I used a 1 1/2g. Mine was from the 1930s. I'm not sure it had the original pipe, but if it was, it was bashed into submission somewhere along the line. If I had one with a Remington pipe, I'd get a DE Remington shank, and then put whatever cup on it you want to play, I'd say an J or maybe I.
- SwissTbone
- Posts: 1138
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Hmmm good question!
I like them with a good old 1½G. Most have been played with the wrong shank anyways so... but I also have a DE setup with a Remington shank. On the 70h you have now, it made quite a notable difference.
I like them with a good old 1½G. Most have been played with the wrong shank anyways so... but I also have a DE setup with a Remington shank. On the 70h you have now, it made quite a notable difference.
- blast
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
A Bach 2G is the perfect match. You can get away with a good 1 1/2 sized piece.
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I use a Doug Elliott LB114 rim, and depending on the situation I use either a J or L cup with the matching #8 Conn shank. This makes for an easy transition for me from my daily mouthpiece, which is an XB114 M/M8.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I believe that the original mouthpiece for a 70H was a Conn Connstellation 3B.
I have one that I use with my 71H. It's a happy combination.
~27.10mm (1.067") Rim I.D., 7.49mm (0.295") Throat; Remington taper; larger Throat, deeper, more V-shaped Cup than Bach 1½G.
I have one that I use with my 71H. It's a happy combination.
~27.10mm (1.067") Rim I.D., 7.49mm (0.295") Throat; Remington taper; larger Throat, deeper, more V-shaped Cup than Bach 1½G.
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
I do own a Conn Connstellation 3B, but on the first try it was not a perfect fit (apart from the shank/receiver obviously...).
I have got a Ferguson V, so will give that one a try, also experimenting with some tape on the shank for the receiver.
I have got a Ferguson V, so will give that one a try, also experimenting with some tape on the shank for the receiver.
- EdwardSolomon
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I use a Mount Vernon Bach 2G with my 70H and 62H bass trombones. That mouthpiece works like magic.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I know of one player who used an old Schilke 59 with the odd shank that fits both Bach and Conn tapers.
- sf105
- Posts: 433
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
I use a Symington 1 1/2 with the appropriate shank in my 70H and it just opens the horn up. Bill ran off a few more copies recently. The horn also responds well with my Symington 2G (with a regular shank + some plumbers tape).
- sf105
- Posts: 433
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
[quote="BGuttman"]I know of one player who used an old Schilke 59 with the odd shank that fits both Bach and Conn tapers.[/quote]
For a long time I switched between long-shank 58 and 59. Of the two, I'd say the 58 is the better piece. It worked nicely with the later TIB Conn 7x horns.
For a long time I switched between long-shank 58 and 59. Of the two, I'd say the 58 is the better piece. It worked nicely with the later TIB Conn 7x horns.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I think the Schilke 59 is a bit too large for the 70H. :idk:
- Savio
- Posts: 688
- Joined: Apr 26, 2018
[quote="MStarke"]What's your favorite mouthpiece for the 70h?
A few days ago I got a really nice Conn 70h from Daniel (swisstbone). It seems to be all original, incl the Remington shank receiver.
I have tried a few pieces and currently use the same as on my Greenhoe, 62h and 112h (but with a Remington shank). MST STUDIO R2 N which is based on a typical GR piece, roughly 1 1/4 G size.
I would be curious what you are using and why.[/quote]
I use a Bach 1 1/2g. Mt Vernon. It's an old trombone but I have in fact listen some players sound good on bigger mouthpieces on this old Conn. So it is possible. I tried both a Bach 1 1/4 and a Laskey 85 MD and a Doug Elliott 112. Not bad at all. But it's easy to make the sound a little bit "cloudy" especially on softer dynamics with these mouthpieces. About the leadpipe on the old Conn. No problem with modern mouthpiec shanks. But yes, the horn is more lively with smaller mouthpieces.
Leif
A few days ago I got a really nice Conn 70h from Daniel (swisstbone). It seems to be all original, incl the Remington shank receiver.
I have tried a few pieces and currently use the same as on my Greenhoe, 62h and 112h (but with a Remington shank). MST STUDIO R2 N which is based on a typical GR piece, roughly 1 1/4 G size.
I would be curious what you are using and why.[/quote]
I use a Bach 1 1/2g. Mt Vernon. It's an old trombone but I have in fact listen some players sound good on bigger mouthpieces on this old Conn. So it is possible. I tried both a Bach 1 1/4 and a Laskey 85 MD and a Doug Elliott 112. Not bad at all. But it's easy to make the sound a little bit "cloudy" especially on softer dynamics with these mouthpieces. About the leadpipe on the old Conn. No problem with modern mouthpiec shanks. But yes, the horn is more lively with smaller mouthpieces.
Leif
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
It seems like I really do NOT own any standard 1 1/2G (or 2G) among all the pieces that I have. Might have to get one.
It's definitely a fun horn to play and I want a mouthpiece that supports its character.
The last days I have been using the Connstellation 3B which may actually be better than I thought originally.
It's definitely a fun horn to play and I want a mouthpiece that supports its character.
The last days I have been using the Connstellation 3B which may actually be better than I thought originally.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="MStarke"]The last days I have been using the Connstellation 3B which may actually be better than I thought originally.[/quote]
:good:
It took me a while to get accustomed to the 3B, but I'm now very comfortable with it.
I purchased mine from a famous LA studio player who moved on from his Conn bass trombone where he used the 3B.
:good:
It took me a while to get accustomed to the 3B, but I'm now very comfortable with it.
I purchased mine from a famous LA studio player who moved on from his Conn bass trombone where he used the 3B.
- TheConnArtist70H
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Nov 10, 2024
Lots of great advice from some excellent pro 70H players. Me personally as an amateur, not bragging but I'm lucky to have Two.
1) Yellow Brass Bell with Rose brass slide 1953 ( Meet Mr. Roberts ) which I use with my Elkie 62H Lead-pipe and it Loves three mouthpieces.
a) Doug Elliott LBK Cup, LB114 Rim and K8c Conn shank - Especially for Ballads feels like a 1 1/4 but more space in the cup to help my lip vibrato. Nice warm resonant sound used on 99% of my youtube recordings.
b) Bach 1 1/4g Corp . with Conn Taper for Warm resonant Orchestral pieces.
c) Bach 2g Corp. With Conn Taper for more heavier attacking Orchestral pieces, really solid.
2) Silver Plated with Gold Wash Bell and SP Rose brass slide 1952 ( Meet Mr. Roberts style ) which has the original Lead-pipe and it prefers:-
a) Bach 1 1/2g Corp ( No dot - Post Vernon ) with Conn Taper - Very open with nice Edgy attacking sound to cut through.
b) Conn 1 1/2g 1960's ( Ex George Thatcher piece ) with obvious Conn shank - Feels like a 1/4g and creates a Warm powerful sound in all ranges ( Wow ).
c) Bach 2g Corp MT VERNON NY ( Gold Screw Rim ) super powerful, Feels like a 1g and is AMAZING ......
I actually bought Two Ex George Thatcher pieces last week i.e the above Conn 1 1/2g and his old Fergusson L which I tried in the SP 70H the other day and was blown away at how it played in all the ranges creating that sweet velvet tone, so may do a recording with this soon. Still awaiting three more of his pieces Bach's 1g, 1g megatone and 2g can't wait to receive these and put these in a special place to celebrate this Hollywood Legends legacy.
RIP Mr. Thatcher
Hope this helps... :idk:
Al :good:
1) Yellow Brass Bell with Rose brass slide 1953 ( Meet Mr. Roberts ) which I use with my Elkie 62H Lead-pipe and it Loves three mouthpieces.
a) Doug Elliott LBK Cup, LB114 Rim and K8c Conn shank - Especially for Ballads feels like a 1 1/4 but more space in the cup to help my lip vibrato. Nice warm resonant sound used on 99% of my youtube recordings.
b) Bach 1 1/4g Corp . with Conn Taper for Warm resonant Orchestral pieces.
c) Bach 2g Corp. With Conn Taper for more heavier attacking Orchestral pieces, really solid.
2) Silver Plated with Gold Wash Bell and SP Rose brass slide 1952 ( Meet Mr. Roberts style ) which has the original Lead-pipe and it prefers:-
a) Bach 1 1/2g Corp ( No dot - Post Vernon ) with Conn Taper - Very open with nice Edgy attacking sound to cut through.
b) Conn 1 1/2g 1960's ( Ex George Thatcher piece ) with obvious Conn shank - Feels like a 1/4g and creates a Warm powerful sound in all ranges ( Wow ).
c) Bach 2g Corp MT VERNON NY ( Gold Screw Rim ) super powerful, Feels like a 1g and is AMAZING ......
I actually bought Two Ex George Thatcher pieces last week i.e the above Conn 1 1/2g and his old Fergusson L which I tried in the SP 70H the other day and was blown away at how it played in all the ranges creating that sweet velvet tone, so may do a recording with this soon. Still awaiting three more of his pieces Bach's 1g, 1g megatone and 2g can't wait to receive these and put these in a special place to celebrate this Hollywood Legends legacy.
RIP Mr. Thatcher
Hope this helps... :idk:
Al :good:
- blast
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I'm not saying that you can't play a 70H with a larger mouthpiece...I've heard Gabe sound magnificent on his set up. There is however, a very special quality with the 70H/2G combo that should at least be tried.
- Savio
- Posts: 688
- Joined: Apr 26, 2018
[quote="blast"]I'm not saying that you can't play a 70H with a larger mouthpiece...I've heard Gabe sound magnificent on his set up. There is however, a very special quality with the 70H/2G combo that should at least be tried.[/quote]
I always wonder how someone like Bob Hughes and Ray Premru get that big sound out of a 2g. But this time I stay with 1 1/2g Chris. Done for many years now after you threatened to come over and hit my stupid lost head with a mouthpiece. :D :biggrin: After I tried nearly all the mouthpieces in the world :D And my wife and daughters told I had to stop searching.
What I think in the end is to learn how to play the equipment we already have? Or I hope so?
But the 70h is more in life with the smaller size bass trombone mouthpieces. Not so strange if we consider the age og that trombone.
Leif
I always wonder how someone like Bob Hughes and Ray Premru get that big sound out of a 2g. But this time I stay with 1 1/2g Chris. Done for many years now after you threatened to come over and hit my stupid lost head with a mouthpiece. :D :biggrin: After I tried nearly all the mouthpieces in the world :D And my wife and daughters told I had to stop searching.
What I think in the end is to learn how to play the equipment we already have? Or I hope so?
But the 70h is more in life with the smaller size bass trombone mouthpieces. Not so strange if we consider the age og that trombone.
Leif
- blast
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="Savio"]<QUOTE author="blast" post_id="278598" time="1749915680" user_id="52">
I'm not saying that you can't play a 70H with a larger mouthpiece...I've heard Gabe sound magnificent on his set up. There is however, a very special quality with the 70H/2G combo that should at least be tried.[/quote]
I always wonder how someone like Bob Hughes and Ray Premru get that big sound out of a 2g. But this time I stay with 1 1/2g Chris. Done for many years now after you threatened to come over and hit my stupid lost head with a mouthpiece. :D :biggrin: After I tried nearly all the mouthpieces in the world :D And my wife and daughters told I had to stop searching.
What I think in the end is to learn how to play the equipment we already have? Or I hope so?
But the 70h is more in life with the smaller size bass trombone mouthpieces. Not so strange if we consider the age og that trombone.
Leif
</QUOTE>
Yes Leif, you are right. I cannot fit easily into a 2G, so I compromise and use a 1 1/2 size, but the trombone works at it's best with a 2G. Bob simply made a glorious sound. We used to play duets for fun and I was always amazed by his sound.
I'm not saying that you can't play a 70H with a larger mouthpiece...I've heard Gabe sound magnificent on his set up. There is however, a very special quality with the 70H/2G combo that should at least be tried.[/quote]
I always wonder how someone like Bob Hughes and Ray Premru get that big sound out of a 2g. But this time I stay with 1 1/2g Chris. Done for many years now after you threatened to come over and hit my stupid lost head with a mouthpiece. :D :biggrin: After I tried nearly all the mouthpieces in the world :D And my wife and daughters told I had to stop searching.
What I think in the end is to learn how to play the equipment we already have? Or I hope so?
But the 70h is more in life with the smaller size bass trombone mouthpieces. Not so strange if we consider the age og that trombone.
Leif
</QUOTE>
Yes Leif, you are right. I cannot fit easily into a 2G, so I compromise and use a 1 1/2 size, but the trombone works at it's best with a 2G. Bob simply made a glorious sound. We used to play duets for fun and I was always amazed by his sound.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Some of the early (30s) 70h were dual bore (547/562) with a smaller 9" bell. I owned one of these, and it was clearly aimed at smaller gear. I don't doubt that some great players could muscle a bigger piece to work, especially on the more standard straight 562 bore.
The 70h really isn't something you would use for hard core modern bass parts, so I'd be happy to play a smaller piece on it. I've geared down to DE J cups and nominal 1.5 pieces (from 1.25 pieces), and I'm happier with my endurance and sound in the range where I spend 90% of my time.
The 70h really isn't something you would use for hard core modern bass parts, so I'd be happy to play a smaller piece on it. I've geared down to DE J cups and nominal 1.5 pieces (from 1.25 pieces), and I'm happier with my endurance and sound in the range where I spend 90% of my time.
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
I got an Arnold's and Sons 1 1/2G at the weekend and today spend some practice time on it. Seems to be the best fit of all the mouthpieces I have available currently. Interestingly it seems to have a relatively large shank and fits the Remington shank better than other regular large shanks.
- SwissTbone
- Posts: 1138
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I have a Symington 2G Zirconium if that's something you'd like to try.
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Savio"]I always wonder how someone like Bob Hughes and Ray Premru get that big sound out of a 2g.[/quote]
Well...Ray's 2G was not standard or at all typical. For one thing, it started as a Mt. Vernon 2G, which was a little bigger than a modern one, and then he had the throat bored out a little (to .281" from .277" I believe) and the rim built up to be wider. In my experience, all else being equal a wider rim surface does make for a bigger, thicker tone.
I think I remember Ray telling me that Bob Hughes' 2G had been modified in a similar way, but I might be wrong about that.
You can buy a copy of Ray's mouthpiece from Greg Black: <LINK_TEXT text="https://gregblackmouthpieces.com/collec ... mouthpiece">https://gregblackmouthpieces.com/collections/trombone-mouthpieces/products/new-2gp-bass-trombone-mouthpiece</LINK_TEXT>
Well...Ray's 2G was not standard or at all typical. For one thing, it started as a Mt. Vernon 2G, which was a little bigger than a modern one, and then he had the throat bored out a little (to .281" from .277" I believe) and the rim built up to be wider. In my experience, all else being equal a wider rim surface does make for a bigger, thicker tone.
I think I remember Ray telling me that Bob Hughes' 2G had been modified in a similar way, but I might be wrong about that.
You can buy a copy of Ray's mouthpiece from Greg Black: <LINK_TEXT text="https://gregblackmouthpieces.com/collec ... mouthpiece">https://gregblackmouthpieces.com/collections/trombone-mouthpieces/products/new-2gp-bass-trombone-mouthpiece</LINK_TEXT>
- blast
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="GabrielRice"]<QUOTE author="Savio" post_id="278614" time="1749931996" user_id="3155">
I always wonder how someone like Bob Hughes and Ray Premru get that big sound out of a 2g.[/quote]
Well...Ray's 2G was not standard or at all typical. For one thing, it started as a Mt. Vernon 2G, which was a little bigger than a modern one, and then he had the throat bored out a little (to .281" from .277" I believe) and the rim built up to be wider. In my experience, all else being equal a wider rim surface does make for a bigger, thicker tone.
I think I remember Ray telling me that Bob Hughes' 2G had been modified in a similar way, but I might be wrong about that.
You can buy a copy of Ray's mouthpiece from Greg Black: <LINK_TEXT text="https://gregblackmouthpieces.com/collec ... mouthpiece">https://gregblackmouthpieces.com/collections/trombone-mouthpieces/products/new-2gp-bass-trombone-mouthpiece</LINK_TEXT>
</QUOTE>
Bob’s mouthpiece was a factory made screw rim 2G with 3 rims. He got it from the 2nd trombone of the RSNO. I blew it and it felt bigger than a 2G. He used the widest of the three rims.
I always wonder how someone like Bob Hughes and Ray Premru get that big sound out of a 2g.[/quote]
Well...Ray's 2G was not standard or at all typical. For one thing, it started as a Mt. Vernon 2G, which was a little bigger than a modern one, and then he had the throat bored out a little (to .281" from .277" I believe) and the rim built up to be wider. In my experience, all else being equal a wider rim surface does make for a bigger, thicker tone.
I think I remember Ray telling me that Bob Hughes' 2G had been modified in a similar way, but I might be wrong about that.
You can buy a copy of Ray's mouthpiece from Greg Black: <LINK_TEXT text="https://gregblackmouthpieces.com/collec ... mouthpiece">https://gregblackmouthpieces.com/collections/trombone-mouthpieces/products/new-2gp-bass-trombone-mouthpiece</LINK_TEXT>
</QUOTE>
Bob’s mouthpiece was a factory made screw rim 2G with 3 rims. He got it from the 2nd trombone of the RSNO. I blew it and it felt bigger than a 2G. He used the widest of the three rims.
- Briande
- Posts: 207
- Joined: Jan 12, 2020
I'm currently going through a similar mouthpiece search for my recently acquired 71H. What are the available sources for "new" mouthpieces with a Remington/Conn Shank? I saw Bach makes some and I'm guessing Doug Elliott has an option. But what else is available?
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Briande"]I'm currently going through a similar mouthpiece search for my recently acquired 71H. What are the available sources for "new" mouthpieces with a Remington/Conn Shank? I saw Bach makes some and I'm guessing Doug Elliott has an option. But what else is available?[/quote]
The first thing I'd do is to determine "how Remington" the receiver still is. After all these years it could have been replaced or simply ground into submission with a morse shank mouthpiece. There is no advantage to having or keeping a Remington shank. If it's still Remington enough to make a morse wobble, then I'd get a DE and when you decide you want to change later, you just have to buy new shank rather than a new mouthpiece.
The first thing I'd do is to determine "how Remington" the receiver still is. After all these years it could have been replaced or simply ground into submission with a morse shank mouthpiece. There is no advantage to having or keeping a Remington shank. If it's still Remington enough to make a morse wobble, then I'd get a DE and when you decide you want to change later, you just have to buy new shank rather than a new mouthpiece.
- Kevbach33
- Posts: 295
- Joined: May 29, 2018
[quote="Briande"]I'm currently going through a similar mouthpiece search for my recently acquired 71H. What are the available sources for "new" mouthpieces with a Remington/Conn Shank? I saw Bach makes some and I'm guessing Doug Elliott has an option. But what else is available?[/quote]
Warburton makes Conn taper shanks for their 2-piece models.
Greg Black can make mouthpieces with that taper.
If possible, you can get your current mouthpiece set up for interchangeable Reeves sleeves; change between Morse and Conn tapers in this instance. On that note, I'm sure the Brass Ark mouthpieces can be had with the Conn shank as an option.
I'm sure there will be more suggestions; these are what popped immediately to my head.
And yes, Doug Elliott can furnish a Conn shank for any of his cups (within reason, yes?) as needed.
Warburton makes Conn taper shanks for their 2-piece models.
Greg Black can make mouthpieces with that taper.
If possible, you can get your current mouthpiece set up for interchangeable Reeves sleeves; change between Morse and Conn tapers in this instance. On that note, I'm sure the Brass Ark mouthpieces can be had with the Conn shank as an option.
I'm sure there will be more suggestions; these are what popped immediately to my head.
And yes, Doug Elliott can furnish a Conn shank for any of his cups (within reason, yes?) as needed.
- blast
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
The constant reference to Brown and Sharpe being bent out of shape by Morse mouthpieces has no basis in fact. The B&S taper used in leadpipes is a more gradual taper than a Morse shank. You can ruin a Morse pipe with a B&S taper mouthpiece but not the other way round.
- Briande
- Posts: 207
- Joined: Jan 12, 2020
[quote="hyperbolica"]<QUOTE author="Briande" post_id="278889" time="1750174854" user_id="8381">
I'm currently going through a similar mouthpiece search for my recently acquired 71H. What are the available sources for "new" mouthpieces with a Remington/Conn Shank? I saw Bach makes some and I'm guessing Doug Elliott has an option. But what else is available?[/quote]
The first thing I'd do is to determine "how Remington" the receiver still is. After all these years it could have been replaced or simply ground into submission with a morse shank mouthpiece. There is no advantage to having or keeping a Remington shank. If it's still Remington enough to make a morse wobble, then I'd get a DE and when you decide you want to change later, you just have to buy new shank rather than a new mouthpiece.
</QUOTE>
Thank you for this, that was something I hadn't thought of. I did put my standard 1 1/2 G into it and it did wiggle a bit. I also had an old King 29 bass trombone mouthpiece that has a longer shank (maybe conn/remington?) and when I put that in it doesn't wiggle at all. I tried playing with the King 29 but it's a bit smaller than what I've gotten comfortable with.
I'm currently going through a similar mouthpiece search for my recently acquired 71H. What are the available sources for "new" mouthpieces with a Remington/Conn Shank? I saw Bach makes some and I'm guessing Doug Elliott has an option. But what else is available?[/quote]
The first thing I'd do is to determine "how Remington" the receiver still is. After all these years it could have been replaced or simply ground into submission with a morse shank mouthpiece. There is no advantage to having or keeping a Remington shank. If it's still Remington enough to make a morse wobble, then I'd get a DE and when you decide you want to change later, you just have to buy new shank rather than a new mouthpiece.
</QUOTE>
Thank you for this, that was something I hadn't thought of. I did put my standard 1 1/2 G into it and it did wiggle a bit. I also had an old King 29 bass trombone mouthpiece that has a longer shank (maybe conn/remington?) and when I put that in it doesn't wiggle at all. I tried playing with the King 29 but it's a bit smaller than what I've gotten comfortable with.
- sf105
- Posts: 433
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
[quote="blast"]The constant reference to Brown and Sharpe being bent out of shape by Morse mouthpieces has no basis in fact. The B&S taper used in leadpipes is a more gradual taper than a Morse shank. You can ruin a Morse pipe with a B&S taper mouthpiece but not the other way round.[/quote]
Wait. I should not use a B&S mouthpiece in an old Conn horn?
Wait. I should not use a B&S mouthpiece in an old Conn horn?
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="sf105"]Wait. I should not use a B&S mouthpiece in an old Conn horn?[/quote]
Highly recommended to use a 'Remington' taper (similar if not identical to B&S) shank in older Conn trombones.. Standard large shanks (Morse taper) will probably wobble and not insert to similar depth. Some mouthpieces (e.g., older long-shank Schlkes) apparently have a 'dual taper' and seem to settle in nicely and work well.
Doug Elliott's Conn shanks work like a dream!
Highly recommended to use a 'Remington' taper (similar if not identical to B&S) shank in older Conn trombones.. Standard large shanks (Morse taper) will probably wobble and not insert to similar depth. Some mouthpieces (e.g., older long-shank Schlkes) apparently have a 'dual taper' and seem to settle in nicely and work well.
Doug Elliott's Conn shanks work like a dream!
- islander
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Jun 07, 2018
[quote="sf105"]I use a Symington 1 1/2 with the appropriate shank in my 70H and it just opens the horn up. Bill ran off a few more copies recently. The horn also responds well with my Symington 2G (with a regular shank + some plumbers tape).[/quote]
I have made a few brass 1.5Gs with Remington shanks recently - just with 70H players in mind. All according to the formula I worked out with Chris "blast" Stearn years ago. Works well.
Bill
I have made a few brass 1.5Gs with Remington shanks recently - just with 70H players in mind. All according to the formula I worked out with Chris "blast" Stearn years ago. Works well.
Bill
- blast
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="sf105"]<QUOTE author="blast" post_id="278906" time="1750183851" user_id="52">
The constant reference to Brown and Sharpe being bent out of shape by Morse mouthpieces has no basis in fact. The B&S taper used in leadpipes is a more gradual taper than a Morse shank. You can ruin a Morse pipe with a B&S taper mouthpiece but not the other way round.[/quote]
Wait. I should not use a B&S mouthpiece in an old Conn horn?
</QUOTE>
Steve, read my post again. B&S taper with B&S pipe.
The constant reference to Brown and Sharpe being bent out of shape by Morse mouthpieces has no basis in fact. The B&S taper used in leadpipes is a more gradual taper than a Morse shank. You can ruin a Morse pipe with a B&S taper mouthpiece but not the other way round.[/quote]
Wait. I should not use a B&S mouthpiece in an old Conn horn?
</QUOTE>
Steve, read my post again. B&S taper with B&S pipe.
- TheConnArtist70H
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Nov 10, 2024
Hi Markus,
Congrats on getting your 70H, It's the best thing I've ever done, I love playing mine, just can't seem to put mine down. Lots of great feedback from some great experienced 70H players. I suppose it is all subjective as it really depends on what you will be using your 70H for. As mentioned in my previous post, 99% of my Youtube recordings are me using my DE Set up ( LBK Cup - LB114 Rim - K8c Shank ) which works perfectly for me, I even use the same set up for my Orchestral work, recently "Haydn Creation" and Elgars "The Music makers" which worked really well as I can get some serious power through with this set up. I could have used my MT Vernon 2g for my Orchestral work, but as always, end up going with the DE, there is something special about Doug's set up that always puts a smile on my face. Again this is just my personal opinion based on actual experience.
The other great thing about the DE system, is that you can use different rims, and shanks according to your preference and music situation, and there not expensive especially as they can last you a life time as with all the others mentioned.
I hope you find what you are looking for......... :good:
Congrats on getting your 70H, It's the best thing I've ever done, I love playing mine, just can't seem to put mine down. Lots of great feedback from some great experienced 70H players. I suppose it is all subjective as it really depends on what you will be using your 70H for. As mentioned in my previous post, 99% of my Youtube recordings are me using my DE Set up ( LBK Cup - LB114 Rim - K8c Shank ) which works perfectly for me, I even use the same set up for my Orchestral work, recently "Haydn Creation" and Elgars "The Music makers" which worked really well as I can get some serious power through with this set up. I could have used my MT Vernon 2g for my Orchestral work, but as always, end up going with the DE, there is something special about Doug's set up that always puts a smile on my face. Again this is just my personal opinion based on actual experience.
The other great thing about the DE system, is that you can use different rims, and shanks according to your preference and music situation, and there not expensive especially as they can last you a life time as with all the others mentioned.
I hope you find what you are looking for......... :good:
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
[quote="TheConnArtist70H"]Hi Markus,
Congrats on getting your 70H[/quote]
Thank you!
Yours and Leif's recordings are part of the reason I finally got one. I really like it's character and how it has its sound which is clearly distinct from my other bass bones (all 62 style).
Not sure where I will use it yet, most likely some orchestral stuff and other gigs where I know the music in advance. simply as I don't feel comfortable sight-reading a bigband gig with just one valve... But it's also just enjoyable to play it for myself.
1 1/2 G seems to be the right general size for me on this instrument. let's see!
Congrats on getting your 70H[/quote]
Thank you!
Yours and Leif's recordings are part of the reason I finally got one. I really like it's character and how it has its sound which is clearly distinct from my other bass bones (all 62 style).
Not sure where I will use it yet, most likely some orchestral stuff and other gigs where I know the music in advance. simply as I don't feel comfortable sight-reading a bigband gig with just one valve... But it's also just enjoyable to play it for myself.
1 1/2 G seems to be the right general size for me on this instrument. let's see!
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
This evening I finally had the chance to take the 70h out to a bigband rehearsal the very first time. I was just a little nervous as that rehearsal is more or less sight-reading for me (I sub with the band on all chairs, so I kind of know the music, but not always the individual parts) and I wasn't sure how well I would get along with just one valve.
Overall I am quite happy with how it went. There were quite a few low Bs in the charts, some of which I faked, some I played up the octave, depending on context. Other than that I find the 70h to be quite easy to play and get a good, somehow fat and at the same time very focused bass trombone sound. The long slide makes the long positions really stable, so I didn't really miss the second valve apart from the low Bs.
And playing Intermission Riff on that thing is great fun! :-)
Reg mouthpiece I came back to playing the same mouthpiece as on my "larger" bass trombones, the MST STUDIO R2 N, which is kind of a typical GR mouthpiece size.
Overall I am quite happy with how it went. There were quite a few low Bs in the charts, some of which I faked, some I played up the octave, depending on context. Other than that I find the 70h to be quite easy to play and get a good, somehow fat and at the same time very focused bass trombone sound. The long slide makes the long positions really stable, so I didn't really miss the second valve apart from the low Bs.
And playing Intermission Riff on that thing is great fun! :-)
Reg mouthpiece I came back to playing the same mouthpiece as on my "larger" bass trombones, the MST STUDIO R2 N, which is kind of a typical GR mouthpiece size.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
I've landed on a laskey 85MD in mine. Tried the 2G pieces- I have good Bachs, one drilled out, a couple Yamaha 58s. One of the Yamaha 58s was the clear winner, but after a long session on it I had to give up... just can't deal with that rim size long term.
The 85 doesn't seem to give up much of the density and it's just much easier to play. I'm surprised it works.
The 85 doesn't seem to give up much of the density and it's just much easier to play. I'm surprised it works.
- TheConnArtist70H
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Nov 10, 2024
Hi Markus,
I was so pleased to hear you decided to take the 70H out to your first rehearsal and can totally understand why you would feel a little nervy esp when you've played doubles for such a long time, yes the extra D plug is useful but this extra material for the tubing and extra valve I feel somewhat suck away a lot of the vibration from the instrument. This was the first thing I noticed when I took my 70H to my first Orchestra rehearsal but was floored by how well and easy it was to play and able to easily knock a good solid FF when needed, I've never looked back, I've received an awful lot of nice compliments on the sound I get from the 70H, and you know what, it just sings but also has that very warm fat sound I've always had in my head. Low B's do not come very often and not really worth worrying about at an amateur / semi pro level, I can easily manage the Low C's as well.
Mind I've never played in a Big band for a while now ( personal reasons ) not wanting to be deafend by the Trumpet section ( bad experience ) however I can imagine the 70H would be amazing and those lower beefy parts.
The more you use it, the more you will realise why have I been playing doubles all this time, no need in my opinion as it's all in your head, I've never been happier since switching, takes me back to when I played my first
brand new Yamaha 322 Single back in 1982 with my DW 2AL, which ironically was designed by George Roberts.
Hope you have lots more fun but also manage to settle on your mouthpiece, but to be honest, most pieces will work as the horns just sing anyway, even faking the Low C's and B's ( just keep practicing and they will come easier than you think.
Welcome to the Club :good:
I was so pleased to hear you decided to take the 70H out to your first rehearsal and can totally understand why you would feel a little nervy esp when you've played doubles for such a long time, yes the extra D plug is useful but this extra material for the tubing and extra valve I feel somewhat suck away a lot of the vibration from the instrument. This was the first thing I noticed when I took my 70H to my first Orchestra rehearsal but was floored by how well and easy it was to play and able to easily knock a good solid FF when needed, I've never looked back, I've received an awful lot of nice compliments on the sound I get from the 70H, and you know what, it just sings but also has that very warm fat sound I've always had in my head. Low B's do not come very often and not really worth worrying about at an amateur / semi pro level, I can easily manage the Low C's as well.
Mind I've never played in a Big band for a while now ( personal reasons ) not wanting to be deafend by the Trumpet section ( bad experience ) however I can imagine the 70H would be amazing and those lower beefy parts.
The more you use it, the more you will realise why have I been playing doubles all this time, no need in my opinion as it's all in your head, I've never been happier since switching, takes me back to when I played my first
brand new Yamaha 322 Single back in 1982 with my DW 2AL, which ironically was designed by George Roberts.
Hope you have lots more fun but also manage to settle on your mouthpiece, but to be honest, most pieces will work as the horns just sing anyway, even faking the Low C's and B's ( just keep practicing and they will come easier than you think.
Welcome to the Club :good:
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="blast"]The DW 2AL was not designed by George Roberts .[/quote]
It was intended to be a copy of Ray Premru's modified Mt. Vernon Bach 2G, but Ray didn't like the different mass distribution. Greg Black copied Ray's mouthpiece and sells it as the 2GP - which Ray did like and played for the last year or two before he passed away. And Greg can absolutely make one with a Remington shank.
It was intended to be a copy of Ray Premru's modified Mt. Vernon Bach 2G, but Ray didn't like the different mass distribution. Greg Black copied Ray's mouthpiece and sells it as the 2GP - which Ray did like and played for the last year or two before he passed away. And Greg can absolutely make one with a Remington shank.
- TheConnArtist70H
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Nov 10, 2024
Just for clarity, my last post reference to George Roberts design was relating to his very short relationship with the Yamaha Corp back in around 1979 when Olds was bought and he was looking for a New venture, he worked with Yamaha after helping design the YBL322 Single Base, not Dennis's 2AL, so sorry if my wording looks to mean the mouthpiece. As we all know, the Yamaha deal failed due to various reasons.....
I just wanted to clear this one up. :good:
I still have my YBL322 and that very 2AL form 1982 :lol:
I just wanted to clear this one up. :good:
I still have my YBL322 and that very 2AL form 1982 :lol: