Warming up in front of others
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
Alex Iles said something that has stuck with me. He essentially said you should only warm up on things that make you sound good. He said, "You know other people can hear you, right?" And that lots of people sound bad during their warmups and are judged negatively by other musicians and people who hire musicians.
I think there's some truth to that, definitely among studio professionals, but also at every other level. There's a saying that every time you play it's an audition. But I also think we shouldn't warm up to please others, but to get ready to perform.
What are your feelings about what Alex says?
I think there's some truth to that, definitely among studio professionals, but also at every other level. There's a saying that every time you play it's an audition. But I also think we shouldn't warm up to please others, but to get ready to perform.
What are your feelings about what Alex says?
- WilliamLang
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Nov 22, 2019
It always feels like damned if you do, damned if you don't. Either you sound "too good" and annoy people or "not good enough" and annoy people. Usually it's just better to warm up away from people or with a practice mute, and just play a couple of comfortable notes on stage before tuning (if you're in an ensemble that doesn't judge you for playing anything!)
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
I'm probably in both of your annoying categories. :D
When I warm up I don't just loosen up a little. I like to play every note on the horn and do breath attack, flexibility, and tonguing exercises before starting work. So I get the "too good" annoying part by playing high notes and fast scales and arpeggios.
And I get the "not good enough" annoying bit by playing false tones, lipping notes down, and doing pedal/low octave lip slurs, all of which are horrifying to hear ("Call 911! Someone is torturing a buffalo!") but help me loosen up and focus for whatever is to come.
My warmup takes a full 20 minutes. So if I can, I'll do all that at home, and then just do some long tones when I get to the rehearsal/gig because I know it's annoying.
When I warm up I don't just loosen up a little. I like to play every note on the horn and do breath attack, flexibility, and tonguing exercises before starting work. So I get the "too good" annoying part by playing high notes and fast scales and arpeggios.
And I get the "not good enough" annoying bit by playing false tones, lipping notes down, and doing pedal/low octave lip slurs, all of which are horrifying to hear ("Call 911! Someone is torturing a buffalo!") but help me loosen up and focus for whatever is to come.
My warmup takes a full 20 minutes. So if I can, I'll do all that at home, and then just do some long tones when I get to the rehearsal/gig because I know it's annoying.
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
I hardly ever do my first/actual warmup of the day at the rehearsal or concert venue. It's just a 5 minute mouthpiece routine that I do at home or in the car. Normally I only need a few notes on site.
But still I always feel watched when I do that. I usually keep it somewhat in the moderate register just with a few long notes, e g expanding intervals. Nothing too fancy.
When I do more than that I would try to get in a separate room or bring a mute. Largely to not annoy others.
But still I always feel watched when I do that. I usually keep it somewhat in the moderate register just with a few long notes, e g expanding intervals. Nothing too fancy.
When I do more than that I would try to get in a separate room or bring a mute. Largely to not annoy others.
- BrassSection
- Posts: 424
- Joined: May 11, 2022
My warmup routine is a hot cup of strong black organic dark roast coffee before I play. First note of the day I play is the first note I play during practice. Generally start with trumpet, most opening songs it fits best. Then jump to low brass, usually tenor trombone. Then it can stay on tbone, switch to euph or French horn, endings usually back on trombone or trumpet. No matter the order of horns, the coffee gets me thru.
Don’t get me started on guitar players “Warmups”!
Don’t get me started on guitar players “Warmups”!
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
I found the solution: I just decided at some point that I didn't need to warm up anymore :lol:
In all seriousness, I agree with Alex Iles but mostly for another reason. I think we should always strive to sound good, anytime we play anything, including purely technical exercises, independently from other people being within earshot. I don't like to think of anything as "not music". Scales are music, and so are flexibility exercises and articulation patterns. If we don't sound good when practicing or warming up one particular technical element, why should we expect we'll sound good when we then use it in context, in a piece? Then if we do sound good when doing it in context, it's likely despite, not because of how we practiced it.
In terms specifically of ensemble etiquette, yeah I have the same impression as William. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Even if you go out of your way to avoid any possibility of appearing to show off, and of annoying anyone, you might still come off the wrong way to someone.
[long anecdote, skip if tired of my usual walls of text]
I learned that during a side-by-side project with a professional orchestra when I was a student, when before a morning rehearsal I was warming up with my daily routine, like several of the other students and pros were doing while others chatted. The routine I used back the does cover the whole range of the horn, so I was really playing it as soft as I could to not annoy anyone. It's a very standard routine that most brass players would instantly recognize, and it would have been very obvious to anyone that I was trying to play it as discreetly as possible. Principal trombone arrives last, introduces himself to me (despite our having already met and exchanged phone calls and e-mails, which was already odd), but before I can even respond, he sits down with his back to me to immediately chat with the principal trumpet. I'm a bit taken aback but don't know how to react. So I resume my warm up. After a few minutes when the principal trumpet turns to talk to his student, principal trombone finally turns to me, only to say "you're not going to need those high notes today", and then immediately berates me about my music stand being higher and sticking out of the row (it was still 20 minutes before rehearsal, and nobody in the trombone section had even touched our stands yet, not even to put our music folders up). Clearly implying that I was trying to show off and stick out, and trying to put me in my place. Then said about 3 more words to me the entire rest of the project. In hindsight, I know I wasn't the problem in that situation, and if it hadn't been that, it would have been something else. It was just mind games and power moves. But still, I didn't dare warm up in front of anyone I didn't already know for years after that, and I'm still self-conscious about it to this day in ways I wasn't before that. And although I didn't realize it until much later, that unwelcoming experience (and some other really unprofessional behaviour I saw from different people during that project) contributed in turning me off from wanting to pursue a career as an orchestral player. So I guess he did succeed to me in my place.
In all seriousness, I agree with Alex Iles but mostly for another reason. I think we should always strive to sound good, anytime we play anything, including purely technical exercises, independently from other people being within earshot. I don't like to think of anything as "not music". Scales are music, and so are flexibility exercises and articulation patterns. If we don't sound good when practicing or warming up one particular technical element, why should we expect we'll sound good when we then use it in context, in a piece? Then if we do sound good when doing it in context, it's likely despite, not because of how we practiced it.
In terms specifically of ensemble etiquette, yeah I have the same impression as William. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Even if you go out of your way to avoid any possibility of appearing to show off, and of annoying anyone, you might still come off the wrong way to someone.
[long anecdote, skip if tired of my usual walls of text]
I learned that during a side-by-side project with a professional orchestra when I was a student, when before a morning rehearsal I was warming up with my daily routine, like several of the other students and pros were doing while others chatted. The routine I used back the does cover the whole range of the horn, so I was really playing it as soft as I could to not annoy anyone. It's a very standard routine that most brass players would instantly recognize, and it would have been very obvious to anyone that I was trying to play it as discreetly as possible. Principal trombone arrives last, introduces himself to me (despite our having already met and exchanged phone calls and e-mails, which was already odd), but before I can even respond, he sits down with his back to me to immediately chat with the principal trumpet. I'm a bit taken aback but don't know how to react. So I resume my warm up. After a few minutes when the principal trumpet turns to talk to his student, principal trombone finally turns to me, only to say "you're not going to need those high notes today", and then immediately berates me about my music stand being higher and sticking out of the row (it was still 20 minutes before rehearsal, and nobody in the trombone section had even touched our stands yet, not even to put our music folders up). Clearly implying that I was trying to show off and stick out, and trying to put me in my place. Then said about 3 more words to me the entire rest of the project. In hindsight, I know I wasn't the problem in that situation, and if it hadn't been that, it would have been something else. It was just mind games and power moves. But still, I didn't dare warm up in front of anyone I didn't already know for years after that, and I'm still self-conscious about it to this day in ways I wasn't before that. And although I didn't realize it until much later, that unwelcoming experience (and some other really unprofessional behaviour I saw from different people during that project) contributed in turning me off from wanting to pursue a career as an orchestral player. So I guess he did succeed to me in my place.
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Dee Stewart taught me that you should always play every note at performance quality, even the first note of the day. No weak/unsupported notes allowed. If you do that, even the simplest warmup on the bandstand will sound good.
Further, none of the pro trombonists I play with play flashy warmups...just long tones and lip slurs. All business. Nobody should be trying to impress anybody when warming up. Just do what you need to get everything working right.
But, here in LA the unspoken rule among brass players is that you use a practice mute to warm up in public, so you don't really have to worry about being heard/judged to begin with.
Further, none of the pro trombonists I play with play flashy warmups...just long tones and lip slurs. All business. Nobody should be trying to impress anybody when warming up. Just do what you need to get everything working right.
But, here in LA the unspoken rule among brass players is that you use a practice mute to warm up in public, so you don't really have to worry about being heard/judged to begin with.
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
Ostentatious warmer-uppers are annoying. My college orchestra conductor advised, "we don't need to hear everyone's favorite concerto."
A good rule is to not be the loudest person in the room.
It should be possible to devise some essential but tasteful warm-up that is not an overtly performative display. When i hear a trombone warming up back stage at the Dallas Symphony it sounds like nothing more than a Remington lip slur study.
The most excessive warming-up I've ever heard was at a cello festival where we could hear the soloist warming up in the "green room" which was really just a hallway connecting to the recital hall.
The audience is seated, curtain time has come and gone, and we're over-hearing him saw through an entire movement of a cello sonata before he emerges to play... that same cello sonata.
That was Lynn Harrell.
A good rule is to not be the loudest person in the room.
It should be possible to devise some essential but tasteful warm-up that is not an overtly performative display. When i hear a trombone warming up back stage at the Dallas Symphony it sounds like nothing more than a Remington lip slur study.
The most excessive warming-up I've ever heard was at a cello festival where we could hear the soloist warming up in the "green room" which was really just a hallway connecting to the recital hall.
The audience is seated, curtain time has come and gone, and we're over-hearing him saw through an entire movement of a cello sonata before he emerges to play... that same cello sonata.
That was Lynn Harrell.
- baBposaune
- Posts: 391
- Joined: Jan 21, 2019
There is another, opposite approach that makes me shake my head in bewilderment. Certain bands I play in, usually jazz groups, the players seem to not warm up much or at all. It's almost like warming up is a sign of weakness.
I always warm up before any rehearsal or performance, regardless of whether it's in a symphony orchestra or big band or wind ensemble. I don't care if I'm in a minority of people who do warm up, I do what I need to do.
My warm up "in front of other people" is EXACTLY the same as the warm up I do at home when I practice. All gettin' down to business, no flashy show-offy stuff, just 15 to 20 minutes of my ROUTINE.
I've been performing on bass trombone for about 48 years now and I know that I can't sound the way I want unless I warm up. What anyone else does or doesn't do to get ready to play is their business. What anyone thinks of the way I warm up doesn't matter. It gets the job done. The proof is there when I play the first note of the rehearsal or concert. Plus, there is much more confidence when I've hit everything during warm up that I will have to play in front of the audience. I don't play the "whole cello sonata" but I DO hit each of the highest notes I will need to play usually multiple times to remember the "feel" when the red light is on.
PS- I have no disrespect for Lynn Harrell. The stage crew could have closed the doors between the hallway and the stage.
Matt Varho
I always warm up before any rehearsal or performance, regardless of whether it's in a symphony orchestra or big band or wind ensemble. I don't care if I'm in a minority of people who do warm up, I do what I need to do.
My warm up "in front of other people" is EXACTLY the same as the warm up I do at home when I practice. All gettin' down to business, no flashy show-offy stuff, just 15 to 20 minutes of my ROUTINE.
I've been performing on bass trombone for about 48 years now and I know that I can't sound the way I want unless I warm up. What anyone else does or doesn't do to get ready to play is their business. What anyone thinks of the way I warm up doesn't matter. It gets the job done. The proof is there when I play the first note of the rehearsal or concert. Plus, there is much more confidence when I've hit everything during warm up that I will have to play in front of the audience. I don't play the "whole cello sonata" but I DO hit each of the highest notes I will need to play usually multiple times to remember the "feel" when the red light is on.
PS- I have no disrespect for Lynn Harrell. The stage crew could have closed the doors between the hallway and the stage.
Matt Varho
- musicofnote
- Posts: 367
- Joined: Jun 03, 2022
[quote="baBposaune"]There is another, opposite approach that makes me shake my head in bewilderment. Certain bands I play in, usually jazz groups, the players seem to not warm up much or at all. It's almost like warming up is a sign of weakness.
I always warm up before any rehearsal or performance, regardless of whether it's in a symphony orchestra or big band or wind ensemble. I don't care if I'm in a minority of people who do warm up, I do what I need to do.
My warm up "in front of other people" is EXACTLY the same as the warm up I do at home when I practice. All gettin' down to business, no flashy show-offy stuff, just 15 to 20 minutes of my ROUTINE.
I've been performing on bass trombone for about 48 years now and I know that I can't sound the way I want unless I warm up. What anyone else does or doesn't do to get ready to play is their business. What anyone thinks of the way I warm up doesn't matter. It gets the job done. The proof is there when I play the first note of the rehearsal or concert. Plus, there is much more confidence when I've hit everything during warm up that I will have to play in front of the audience. I don't play the "whole cello sonata" but I DO hit each of the highest notes I will need to play usually multiple times to remember the "feel" when the red light is on.
PS- I have no disrespect for Lynn Harrell. The stage crew could have closed the doors between the hallway and the stage.
Matt Varho[/quote]
Good, don't have to add any more except that my warm-up generally gets me where I need to be in <10 minutes. And I've only been playing bass bone since 1991.
I always warm up before any rehearsal or performance, regardless of whether it's in a symphony orchestra or big band or wind ensemble. I don't care if I'm in a minority of people who do warm up, I do what I need to do.
My warm up "in front of other people" is EXACTLY the same as the warm up I do at home when I practice. All gettin' down to business, no flashy show-offy stuff, just 15 to 20 minutes of my ROUTINE.
I've been performing on bass trombone for about 48 years now and I know that I can't sound the way I want unless I warm up. What anyone else does or doesn't do to get ready to play is their business. What anyone thinks of the way I warm up doesn't matter. It gets the job done. The proof is there when I play the first note of the rehearsal or concert. Plus, there is much more confidence when I've hit everything during warm up that I will have to play in front of the audience. I don't play the "whole cello sonata" but I DO hit each of the highest notes I will need to play usually multiple times to remember the "feel" when the red light is on.
PS- I have no disrespect for Lynn Harrell. The stage crew could have closed the doors between the hallway and the stage.
Matt Varho[/quote]
Good, don't have to add any more except that my warm-up generally gets me where I need to be in <10 minutes. And I've only been playing bass bone since 1991.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="baBposaune"]There is another, opposite approach that makes me shake my head in bewilderment. Certain bands I play in, usually jazz groups, the players seem to not warm up much or at all. It's almost like warming up is a sign of weakness.[/quote]
[quote="baBposaune"]What anyone else does or doesn't do to get ready to play is their business. What anyone thinks of the way I warm up doesn't matter.[/quote]
I don't mean to put you on the spot, I just thought this contradiction was interesting and quite illustrative of the conversation overall and the "dammed if you do, damned if you don't" reality that William and I mentioned. You feel like warming up or not – and if yes, how it's done – is each player's business and it shouldn't matter to others (and I overall agree with that), yet you do take notice of, and are "bewildered" by, people who take the opposite approach to yours, and go so far as to assign motive ("it's almost like it's a sign of weakness") when there's any number of reasons why someone might choose not to warm up.
I don't judge people for warming up or not, and for what they do in their warm-up. We're all on an individual journey, with different technique, different needs, and we should be able to do whatever works for us. I do get annoyed if someone's warm-up in public is not mindful or respectful of others' preparation needs (e.g. playing obnoxiously loud in a shared space, especially one where some poeple are trying to prepare by resting, napping or meditating, or concentrating on something... Then maybe look for an isolated room), although I've certainly been guilty of that myself in the past. And I do notice when I hear someone warming up or practicing fundamentals with a certain roughness, especially when I also hear that same roughness peeking through in their actual playing.
Yes, I realise that I also just contradicted myself :shuffle:
[quote="baBposaune"]What anyone else does or doesn't do to get ready to play is their business. What anyone thinks of the way I warm up doesn't matter.[/quote]
I don't mean to put you on the spot, I just thought this contradiction was interesting and quite illustrative of the conversation overall and the "dammed if you do, damned if you don't" reality that William and I mentioned. You feel like warming up or not – and if yes, how it's done – is each player's business and it shouldn't matter to others (and I overall agree with that), yet you do take notice of, and are "bewildered" by, people who take the opposite approach to yours, and go so far as to assign motive ("it's almost like it's a sign of weakness") when there's any number of reasons why someone might choose not to warm up.
I don't judge people for warming up or not, and for what they do in their warm-up. We're all on an individual journey, with different technique, different needs, and we should be able to do whatever works for us. I do get annoyed if someone's warm-up in public is not mindful or respectful of others' preparation needs (e.g. playing obnoxiously loud in a shared space, especially one where some poeple are trying to prepare by resting, napping or meditating, or concentrating on something... Then maybe look for an isolated room), although I've certainly been guilty of that myself in the past. And I do notice when I hear someone warming up or practicing fundamentals with a certain roughness, especially when I also hear that same roughness peeking through in their actual playing.
Yes, I realise that I also just contradicted myself :shuffle:
- VJOFan
- Posts: 529
- Joined: Apr 06, 2018
Okay, if playing a musical composition with others well involves awareness, sensitivity and adaptation to what’s happening around you (not to mention preparation) then that can start well before the rehearsal’s downbeat.
The list below assumes a subbing or pick up freelance situation. When lucky enough to play full time with the same people all the time, this conversation becomes mostly moot. It’s a family and you get to know what everyone’s quirks are. So for working in new situations…
1a. Be mentally and physically prepared to just sit down and play if necessary.
1b. Show up very early and find a far off space to do your work if you can’t be playing ready as you walk through the door.
2. Read the room: how are all the other players behaving? Adapt to be like that.
3. After reading the room and being as pleasant as the situation allows/demands and being seen, become invisible. Go to a spot that is away from the bandstand, turn away from the people, and do your work. Echoing some of the above, do only what is necessary.
4. Get to the bandstand before the rehearsal’s downbeat time- don’t make the leader call you over.
On another note, I haven’t been annoyed by others warm ups or have ever paid much attention to them when they are before rehearsal.
What was very annoying was when a sub for a band I was in arrived late for a practice, came in, set up his mutes then left the main room to go into a not very sound proof practice room to blast away for ten minutes before returning to the section. Funny that I haven’t crossed paths with that player since (15 years).
The list below assumes a subbing or pick up freelance situation. When lucky enough to play full time with the same people all the time, this conversation becomes mostly moot. It’s a family and you get to know what everyone’s quirks are. So for working in new situations…
1a. Be mentally and physically prepared to just sit down and play if necessary.
1b. Show up very early and find a far off space to do your work if you can’t be playing ready as you walk through the door.
2. Read the room: how are all the other players behaving? Adapt to be like that.
3. After reading the room and being as pleasant as the situation allows/demands and being seen, become invisible. Go to a spot that is away from the bandstand, turn away from the people, and do your work. Echoing some of the above, do only what is necessary.
4. Get to the bandstand before the rehearsal’s downbeat time- don’t make the leader call you over.
On another note, I haven’t been annoyed by others warm ups or have ever paid much attention to them when they are before rehearsal.
What was very annoying was when a sub for a band I was in arrived late for a practice, came in, set up his mutes then left the main room to go into a not very sound proof practice room to blast away for ten minutes before returning to the section. Funny that I haven’t crossed paths with that player since (15 years).
- AndrewMeronek
- Posts: 1487
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
I just get the awkward judging out of the way and make sure I crack a bunch of notes and have response issues for my first warmup notes.
:clever:
:clever:
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="baBposaune"]PS- I have no disrespect for Lynn Harrell. The stage crew could have closed the doors between the hallway and the stage.[/quote]
The doors were closed. Big heavy institutional doors.
The doors were closed. Big heavy institutional doors.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="robcat2075"]The most excessive warming-up I've ever heard was at a cello festival where we could hear the soloist warming up in the "green room" which was really just a hallway connecting to the recital hall.
The audience is seated, curtain time has come and gone, and we're over-hearing him saw through an entire movement of a cello sonata before he emerges to play... that same cello sonata.
That was Lynn Harrell.[/quote]
As a positive thinker, my reaction would have been:
"Wow. I got to hear the great cellist Lynn Harrell play this wonderful sonata twice!"
The audience is seated, curtain time has come and gone, and we're over-hearing him saw through an entire movement of a cello sonata before he emerges to play... that same cello sonata.
That was Lynn Harrell.[/quote]
As a positive thinker, my reaction would have been:
"Wow. I got to hear the great cellist Lynn Harrell play this wonderful sonata twice!"
- baBposaune
- Posts: 391
- Joined: Jan 21, 2019
[quote="LeTromboniste"]<QUOTE author="baBposaune" post_id="279280" time="1750571788" user_id="4356">
There is another, opposite approach that makes me shake my head in bewilderment. Certain bands I play in, usually jazz groups, the players seem to not warm up much or at all. It's almost like warming up is a sign of weakness.[/quote]
[quote="baBposaune"]What anyone else does or doesn't do to get ready to play is their business. What anyone thinks of the way I warm up doesn't matter.[/quote]
You feel like warming up or not – and if yes, how it's done – is each player's business and it shouldn't matter to others (and I overall agree with that), yet you do take notice of, and are "bewildered" by, people who take the opposite approach to yours, and go so far as to assign motive ("it's almost like it's a sign of weakness") when there's any number of reasons why someone might choose not to warm up.
</QUOTE>
Sure, they can choose not to warm up but the rest of us "warmer uppers" have to listen to them grind out the notes (sometimes painfully badly) for the first 20 minutes of rehearsal. Time wasted in my opinion. Repeating sections because the lead trumpet player says, "I'm not warmed up yet." Warming up on the tunes is bad form and wastes other peoples' time.
I have been in many rehearsal rooms where there are judgmental looks coming from mostly amateur musicians who eye people who warm up as oddities, hence my statement that they appear to believe that warming up is for sissies. I also used to play with people who would say out loud that "tuning is a sign of weakness" but that's a whole other topic.
There is another, opposite approach that makes me shake my head in bewilderment. Certain bands I play in, usually jazz groups, the players seem to not warm up much or at all. It's almost like warming up is a sign of weakness.[/quote]
[quote="baBposaune"]What anyone else does or doesn't do to get ready to play is their business. What anyone thinks of the way I warm up doesn't matter.[/quote]
You feel like warming up or not – and if yes, how it's done – is each player's business and it shouldn't matter to others (and I overall agree with that), yet you do take notice of, and are "bewildered" by, people who take the opposite approach to yours, and go so far as to assign motive ("it's almost like it's a sign of weakness") when there's any number of reasons why someone might choose not to warm up.
</QUOTE>
Sure, they can choose not to warm up but the rest of us "warmer uppers" have to listen to them grind out the notes (sometimes painfully badly) for the first 20 minutes of rehearsal. Time wasted in my opinion. Repeating sections because the lead trumpet player says, "I'm not warmed up yet." Warming up on the tunes is bad form and wastes other peoples' time.
I have been in many rehearsal rooms where there are judgmental looks coming from mostly amateur musicians who eye people who warm up as oddities, hence my statement that they appear to believe that warming up is for sissies. I also used to play with people who would say out loud that "tuning is a sign of weakness" but that's a whole other topic.
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
There was a time in my life when I was in such great playing shape that I was essentially always warm and never had to warm up. I could show up, take my horn out, and play the gig. There wasn't any "warming up is weakness" stuff, and frankly that sounds like something you're bringing to it, not them. I was just always ready to go.
Now that I'm in my 70th year of life, my body doesn't work that way anymore. Nowadays I have to warm up slowly, carefully, and thoroughly. I can't just zen out on a handful of long tones or rip a few lip slurs. It's like I have to retrain the muscles every day. Like it doesn't "keep." It was a little frustrating, but now I just accept that that's what life is like in old age.
But I don't begrudge people who can just take the horn out of the case and tear the place up. I actually envy them.
Now that I'm in my 70th year of life, my body doesn't work that way anymore. Nowadays I have to warm up slowly, carefully, and thoroughly. I can't just zen out on a handful of long tones or rip a few lip slurs. It's like I have to retrain the muscles every day. Like it doesn't "keep." It was a little frustrating, but now I just accept that that's what life is like in old age.
But I don't begrudge people who can just take the horn out of the case and tear the place up. I actually envy them.
- baBposaune
- Posts: 391
- Joined: Jan 21, 2019
[quote="musicofnote"]
Good, don't have to add any more except that my warm-up generally gets me where I need to be in <10 minutes. And I've only been playing bass bone since 1991.[/quote]
When I use 20 minutes to warm up it's when I have the luxury of time.
I have warmed up in less than 10 minutes but I don't prefer to do it unless I don't have a choice.
Over the years I've developed enough ways of getting the chops up that I have different warmups for shorter times.
They are not just playing my usual warm up faster, but are distinctly different.
Good, don't have to add any more except that my warm-up generally gets me where I need to be in <10 minutes. And I've only been playing bass bone since 1991.[/quote]
When I use 20 minutes to warm up it's when I have the luxury of time.
I have warmed up in less than 10 minutes but I don't prefer to do it unless I don't have a choice.
Over the years I've developed enough ways of getting the chops up that I have different warmups for shorter times.
They are not just playing my usual warm up faster, but are distinctly different.
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
I have a confession to make.
Both Max and Matt have referred to showing off in a warmup. And I used to think poorly of people who did that. But I went out of my way to do that at a big band gig about a year ago.
Yes, I confess, I'm guilty. This was a band put together just for this gig. It was a pretty lofty gig, and my area being the musical wasteland that it is, most of the band consisted of pros imported from L.A. just for the gig. I was the only local brass player on the gig, and none of them knew me.
When I arrived, I overheard the L.A. trombone players lamenting what a bummer it was that I was on the gig. That their great section was destroyed because they had to deal with some local old lady, and why didn't the leader bring up another player from L.A., and should they just ask him to do the gig with three trombones, or could they stick me where I wouldn't get in the way. And they rolled their eyes and snickered as they made derisive and mocking comments.
I just smiled and introduced myself to each of them, and didn't address what I overheard. I just put my horn together, blew a few long tones, and then proceeded to pull out all the stops and "warm up" on the baddest, flashiest, most technical, most impressive things I could think of to play. Because fuck them.
What they said offended, hurt, and outraged me (though, frankly, I'm used to the fact that women trombonists are looked down upon until they prove their worth to the men, which always pisses me off). So yeah, I used my warmup to show off. It's how I chose to respond to them. To say I thought they they were unfair and unkind. To say try to keep up.
One of those guys is a friend, now. Another is a pro others here admire but whom I have trashed here. Because I don't forget the nasty, mocking, derisive things that guy said about me, and how I play rings around him. (And I hope you're reading this and that you remember that night, asswipe.)
Ever since that day I have changed my opinion of "show off" warmups. I did it because I felt I had to prove myself. What they said made me feel bad and question if I really belonged there. I assume others show off during warmups because they also feel they have to prove themselves, whether it's because of some overt event like I experienced or just because they're inherently insecure. But now I don't begrudge it, and will compliment them. Because I think it's usually good folks who for whatever reason feel they need to keep proving themselves over and over.
I'll probably regret this confession, but oh well, too late now!
Both Max and Matt have referred to showing off in a warmup. And I used to think poorly of people who did that. But I went out of my way to do that at a big band gig about a year ago.
Yes, I confess, I'm guilty. This was a band put together just for this gig. It was a pretty lofty gig, and my area being the musical wasteland that it is, most of the band consisted of pros imported from L.A. just for the gig. I was the only local brass player on the gig, and none of them knew me.
When I arrived, I overheard the L.A. trombone players lamenting what a bummer it was that I was on the gig. That their great section was destroyed because they had to deal with some local old lady, and why didn't the leader bring up another player from L.A., and should they just ask him to do the gig with three trombones, or could they stick me where I wouldn't get in the way. And they rolled their eyes and snickered as they made derisive and mocking comments.
I just smiled and introduced myself to each of them, and didn't address what I overheard. I just put my horn together, blew a few long tones, and then proceeded to pull out all the stops and "warm up" on the baddest, flashiest, most technical, most impressive things I could think of to play. Because fuck them.
What they said offended, hurt, and outraged me (though, frankly, I'm used to the fact that women trombonists are looked down upon until they prove their worth to the men, which always pisses me off). So yeah, I used my warmup to show off. It's how I chose to respond to them. To say I thought they they were unfair and unkind. To say try to keep up.
One of those guys is a friend, now. Another is a pro others here admire but whom I have trashed here. Because I don't forget the nasty, mocking, derisive things that guy said about me, and how I play rings around him. (And I hope you're reading this and that you remember that night, asswipe.)
Ever since that day I have changed my opinion of "show off" warmups. I did it because I felt I had to prove myself. What they said made me feel bad and question if I really belonged there. I assume others show off during warmups because they also feel they have to prove themselves, whether it's because of some overt event like I experienced or just because they're inherently insecure. But now I don't begrudge it, and will compliment them. Because I think it's usually good folks who for whatever reason feel they need to keep proving themselves over and over.
I'll probably regret this confession, but oh well, too late now!
- TomInME
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Jan 03, 2024
Entirely appropriate. The ones who weren't a-holes and were just nodding (instead of standing up) would take it the right way, and the ones who really are a-holes deserve to eat sh*t.
I might have gone further and said, "it's too bad you all had to come up here because you aren't good enough to work in LA"...
I might have gone further and said, "it's too bad you all had to come up here because you aren't good enough to work in LA"...
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="TomInME"]Entirely appropriate.
I might have gone further and said, "it's too bad you all had to come up here because you aren't good enough to work in LA"...[/quote]
;)
I might have gone further and said, "it's too bad you all had to come up here because you aren't good enough to work in LA"...[/quote]
;)
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
But they do work in L.A., and that's not something I would ever say. But it might feel good for a moment! :D
No, I did it because I was insecure, hurt, and felt I needed to prove something to them. Today, I would not have done that, I would have just shrugged it off. After all, it's not the first time I've been dismissed by people before they even heard me play, and it won't be the last. And, frankly, what difference does it make?
I even recall some attitudes here in this forum that changed after I posted stuff I played. I usually don't take the assumptions personally. This time I was triggered emotionally, and I did take it personally. That's my bad. But doing that made me think about people who show off in warmups, and the conclusion I came to is that they must feel in some sense the way I felt, like they need to prove something to people for whatever reason. So I look at them more sympathetically now. It sucks to feel like you have to prove something to others. It's an internal doubt that gnaws at you. So I'm not judgmental about show-off warmups anymore. I take them as a tacit confession of insecurity, as I felt. And sometimes I really enjoy hearing it. I love good players.
No, I did it because I was insecure, hurt, and felt I needed to prove something to them. Today, I would not have done that, I would have just shrugged it off. After all, it's not the first time I've been dismissed by people before they even heard me play, and it won't be the last. And, frankly, what difference does it make?
I even recall some attitudes here in this forum that changed after I posted stuff I played. I usually don't take the assumptions personally. This time I was triggered emotionally, and I did take it personally. That's my bad. But doing that made me think about people who show off in warmups, and the conclusion I came to is that they must feel in some sense the way I felt, like they need to prove something to people for whatever reason. So I look at them more sympathetically now. It sucks to feel like you have to prove something to others. It's an internal doubt that gnaws at you. So I'm not judgmental about show-off warmups anymore. I take them as a tacit confession of insecurity, as I felt. And sometimes I really enjoy hearing it. I love good players.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="tbdana"]I have a confession to make.
Both Max and Matt have referred to showing off in a warmup. And I used to think poorly of people who did that. But I went out of my way to do that at a big band gig about a year ago.
Yes, I confess, I'm guilty. This was a band put together just for this gig. It was a pretty lofty gig, and my area being the musical wasteland that it is, most of the band consisted of pros imported from L.A. just for the gig. I was the only local brass player on the gig, and none of them knew me.
When I arrived, I overheard the L.A. trombone players lamenting what a bummer it was that I was on the gig. That their great section was destroyed because they had to deal with some local old lady, and why didn't the leader bring up another player from L.A., and should they just ask him to do the gig with three trombones, or could they stick me where I wouldn't get in the way. And they rolled their eyes and snickered as they made derisive and mocking comments.
I just smiled and introduced myself to each of them, and didn't address what I overheard. I just put my horn together, blew a few long tones, and then proceeded to pull out all the stops and "warm up" on the baddest, flashiest, most technical, most impressive things I could think of to play. Because fuck them.
What they said offended, hurt, and outraged me (though, frankly, I'm used to the fact that women trombonists are looked down upon until they prove their worth to the men, which always pisses me off). So yeah, I used my warmup to show off. It's how I chose to respond to them. To say I thought they they were unfair and unkind. To say try to keep up.
One of those guys is a friend, now. Another is a pro others here admire but whom I have trashed here. Because I don't forget the nasty, mocking, derisive things that guy said about me, and how I play rings around him. (And I hope you're reading this and that you remember that night, asswipe.)
Ever since that day I have changed my opinion of "show off" warmups. I did it because I felt I had to prove myself. What they said made me feel bad and question if I really belonged there. I assume others show off during warmups because they also feel they have to prove themselves, whether it's because of some overt event like I experienced or just because they're inherently insecure. But now I don't begrudge it, and will compliment them. Because I think it's usually good folks who for whatever reason feel they need to keep proving themselves over and over.
I'll probably regret this confession, but oh well, too late now![/quote]
Oh boy. In your place I would like to think I would have done the same (if I had the chops for it!). That kind of toxic attitude is not acceptable and when faced with it, I think you were right to do what you needed to prove them wrong.
Looping back to Alex Iles' comment and the reality that we're "always auditioning", one problem generally with going out of one's way to show off – i.e. playing stuff that isn't actually what they need for warming up, and likely wouldn't play when warming up in private – is it's a very fine line between coming across as simply a good player displaying confidence (and maybe trying to prove themselves honestly), or as an asshole who seeks to intimidate others and establish dominance with a bully attitude. Nobody wants (or, at least, should want) to work with the latter. Plus warming up is often the first impression you have of someone's playing and musical personality.
Both Max and Matt have referred to showing off in a warmup. And I used to think poorly of people who did that. But I went out of my way to do that at a big band gig about a year ago.
Yes, I confess, I'm guilty. This was a band put together just for this gig. It was a pretty lofty gig, and my area being the musical wasteland that it is, most of the band consisted of pros imported from L.A. just for the gig. I was the only local brass player on the gig, and none of them knew me.
When I arrived, I overheard the L.A. trombone players lamenting what a bummer it was that I was on the gig. That their great section was destroyed because they had to deal with some local old lady, and why didn't the leader bring up another player from L.A., and should they just ask him to do the gig with three trombones, or could they stick me where I wouldn't get in the way. And they rolled their eyes and snickered as they made derisive and mocking comments.
I just smiled and introduced myself to each of them, and didn't address what I overheard. I just put my horn together, blew a few long tones, and then proceeded to pull out all the stops and "warm up" on the baddest, flashiest, most technical, most impressive things I could think of to play. Because fuck them.
What they said offended, hurt, and outraged me (though, frankly, I'm used to the fact that women trombonists are looked down upon until they prove their worth to the men, which always pisses me off). So yeah, I used my warmup to show off. It's how I chose to respond to them. To say I thought they they were unfair and unkind. To say try to keep up.
One of those guys is a friend, now. Another is a pro others here admire but whom I have trashed here. Because I don't forget the nasty, mocking, derisive things that guy said about me, and how I play rings around him. (And I hope you're reading this and that you remember that night, asswipe.)
Ever since that day I have changed my opinion of "show off" warmups. I did it because I felt I had to prove myself. What they said made me feel bad and question if I really belonged there. I assume others show off during warmups because they also feel they have to prove themselves, whether it's because of some overt event like I experienced or just because they're inherently insecure. But now I don't begrudge it, and will compliment them. Because I think it's usually good folks who for whatever reason feel they need to keep proving themselves over and over.
I'll probably regret this confession, but oh well, too late now![/quote]
Oh boy. In your place I would like to think I would have done the same (if I had the chops for it!). That kind of toxic attitude is not acceptable and when faced with it, I think you were right to do what you needed to prove them wrong.
Looping back to Alex Iles' comment and the reality that we're "always auditioning", one problem generally with going out of one's way to show off – i.e. playing stuff that isn't actually what they need for warming up, and likely wouldn't play when warming up in private – is it's a very fine line between coming across as simply a good player displaying confidence (and maybe trying to prove themselves honestly), or as an asshole who seeks to intimidate others and establish dominance with a bully attitude. Nobody wants (or, at least, should want) to work with the latter. Plus warming up is often the first impression you have of someone's playing and musical personality.
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
Wow, it has never occurred to me that someone would do a show-off warmup to intimidate others and establish dominance. But as soon as I read that it reminded me of a couple trumpet players I know! :mrgreen:
I, too, take the "always auditioning" thing to heart. That's why every time I play I try to do my very best, even in the lowliest of situations. I've lived that "always auditioning" thing. I met Bill Watrous and got in his band because he heard me sub at a freebie gig I was unhappy doing. I got to play with Tower of Power because Mic Gillette heard me at a rehearsal band. I got on Buddy Rich's band because someone in the band heard me playing in a rehearsal band at the Local 47 union hall. You never know where a career-changing gig or relationship will come from. And you never know what might cause that career-changing person to dismiss the idea of hiring you because you didn't give it your best at some dumb rehearsal. So yeah, every note we play is an audition, even if we're just in it for the fun.
I, too, take the "always auditioning" thing to heart. That's why every time I play I try to do my very best, even in the lowliest of situations. I've lived that "always auditioning" thing. I met Bill Watrous and got in his band because he heard me sub at a freebie gig I was unhappy doing. I got to play with Tower of Power because Mic Gillette heard me at a rehearsal band. I got on Buddy Rich's band because someone in the band heard me playing in a rehearsal band at the Local 47 union hall. You never know where a career-changing gig or relationship will come from. And you never know what might cause that career-changing person to dismiss the idea of hiring you because you didn't give it your best at some dumb rehearsal. So yeah, every note we play is an audition, even if we're just in it for the fun.
- LetItSlide
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Sep 01, 2022
Hi Dana, do you know Kevin Krull? He told me he played with Tower of Power.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="tbdana"]Wow, it has never occurred to me that someone would do a show-off warmup to intimidate others and establish dominance. But as soon as I read that it reminded me of a couple trumpet players I know! :mrgreen:[/quote]
I was once in the semi-finals of an international solo competition. In the warm-up room in the morning, there was a lot of playing the highest and fastest passages of the imposed piece as loud and as fast as possible, from a group of contestants who were all buddies and students or former students of the same teacher and took up as much space as possible in the room both sound-wise and physically. I met some people there who I now work with regularly, including someone who later became one of my closest friends and musical partners. I'll let you guess whether they were among the obnoxious group!
[quote="tbdana"]I, too, take the "always auditioning" thing to heart. That's why every time I play I try to do my very best, even in the lowliest of situations. I've lived that "always auditioning" thing. I met Bill Watrous and got in his band because he heard me sub at a freebie gig I was unhappy doing. I got to play with Tower of Power because Mic Gillette heard me at a rehearsal band. I got on Buddy Rich's band because someone in the band heard me playing in a rehearsal band at the Local 47 union hall. You never know where a career-changing gig or relationship will come from. And you never know what might cause that career-changing person to dismiss the idea of hiring you because you didn't give it your best at some dumb rehearsal. So yeah, every note we play is an audition, even if we're just in it for the fun.[/quote]
It's easy to forget that, but yes, absolutely!
I was once in the semi-finals of an international solo competition. In the warm-up room in the morning, there was a lot of playing the highest and fastest passages of the imposed piece as loud and as fast as possible, from a group of contestants who were all buddies and students or former students of the same teacher and took up as much space as possible in the room both sound-wise and physically. I met some people there who I now work with regularly, including someone who later became one of my closest friends and musical partners. I'll let you guess whether they were among the obnoxious group!
[quote="tbdana"]I, too, take the "always auditioning" thing to heart. That's why every time I play I try to do my very best, even in the lowliest of situations. I've lived that "always auditioning" thing. I met Bill Watrous and got in his band because he heard me sub at a freebie gig I was unhappy doing. I got to play with Tower of Power because Mic Gillette heard me at a rehearsal band. I got on Buddy Rich's band because someone in the band heard me playing in a rehearsal band at the Local 47 union hall. You never know where a career-changing gig or relationship will come from. And you never know what might cause that career-changing person to dismiss the idea of hiring you because you didn't give it your best at some dumb rehearsal. So yeah, every note we play is an audition, even if we're just in it for the fun.[/quote]
It's easy to forget that, but yes, absolutely!
- JTeagarden
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Feb 24, 2025
I wish I knew what it is I am actually <I>warming up </I>when I warm up, I notice for instance that if I go swimming, absolutely no warm up is necessary for the next 5-6 hours, everything is coordinated and ready to go.
About always trying to sound good: I believe Maurice Andre was famous for saying you didn't want to hear what he sounded like the first 20 minutes of practicing, I assume this wasn't just false modesty on his part...
About always trying to sound good: I believe Maurice Andre was famous for saying you didn't want to hear what he sounded like the first 20 minutes of practicing, I assume this wasn't just false modesty on his part...
- JTeagarden
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Feb 24, 2025
I also assume human nature is basically the same all up and down the musical food chain: you want people to notice , but don't wat to come across as a show off, either, so don't do anything to sound bad if you can help it, and if you decide to "go for it," you better not miss!
There was an exceptional tombonist during the big-band era named Bobby Byrne, and the major criticism of him is that he was always going for it, and sometimes landing on his face.
There was an exceptional tombonist during the big-band era named Bobby Byrne, and the major criticism of him is that he was always going for it, and sometimes landing on his face.
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
I completely have the go for it mentality. Not in warmups, that sounds weird. But in playing. No one ever played a great solo by being cautious. and I’ve developed a willingness to crash and burn and make a fool of myself.
Only those who choose to go too far will ever know how far they can go. Or something like that.
Only those who choose to go too far will ever know how far they can go. Or something like that.
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="JTeagarden"]I wish I knew what it is I am actually <I>warming up </I>when I warm up...[/quote]
I have come to believe that "warming-up" is really re-acquainting oneself with how it feels to play the horn.
One's "muscle memory" for high Bb or pedal F or 5th position or whatever doesn't have to be perpetual if one can have them ready to go again after just a few minutes of reminding our muscles what those things feel like at the beginning of playing.
So "warming up" is not a physical description of what the act is... it is a metaphor. We seem to have many of those om music.
Instrumental pedagogues would probably do well to drop the metaphors and speak more plainly.
I have come to believe that "warming-up" is really re-acquainting oneself with how it feels to play the horn.
One's "muscle memory" for high Bb or pedal F or 5th position or whatever doesn't have to be perpetual if one can have them ready to go again after just a few minutes of reminding our muscles what those things feel like at the beginning of playing.
So "warming up" is not a physical description of what the act is... it is a metaphor. We seem to have many of those om music.
Instrumental pedagogues would probably do well to drop the metaphors and speak more plainly.
- JTeagarden
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Feb 24, 2025
[quote="robcat2075"]<QUOTE author="JTeagarden" post_id="279376" time="1750689276" user_id="19182">
I wish I knew what it is I am actually <I>warming up </I>when I warm up...[/quote]
I have come to believe that "warming-up" is really re-acquainting oneself with how it feels to play the horn.
One's "muscle memory" for high Bb or pedal F or 5th position or whatever doesn't have to be perpetual if one can have them ready to go again after just a few minutes of reminding our muscles what those things feel like at the beginning of playing.
So "warming up" is not a physical description of what the act is... it is a metaphor. We seem to have many of those om music.
Instrumental pedagogues would probably do well to drop the metaphors and speak more plainly.
</QUOTE>
I hear you, and you are probably largely right, but I have never been able to understand why swimming beforehand (in my case) basically makes everything work fine (or maybe 90% of the way there) from the first note, anyone else experiece something equivalent to this?
I wish I knew what it is I am actually <I>warming up </I>when I warm up...[/quote]
I have come to believe that "warming-up" is really re-acquainting oneself with how it feels to play the horn.
One's "muscle memory" for high Bb or pedal F or 5th position or whatever doesn't have to be perpetual if one can have them ready to go again after just a few minutes of reminding our muscles what those things feel like at the beginning of playing.
So "warming up" is not a physical description of what the act is... it is a metaphor. We seem to have many of those om music.
Instrumental pedagogues would probably do well to drop the metaphors and speak more plainly.
</QUOTE>
I hear you, and you are probably largely right, but I have never been able to understand why swimming beforehand (in my case) basically makes everything work fine (or maybe 90% of the way there) from the first note, anyone else experiece something equivalent to this?
- tromboneVan
- Posts: 270
- Joined: May 21, 2019
I believe it is simple; you're getting your blood oxygenated and pumping through your muscles. Warming up, in part is getting the blood flowing to your lips, and also it involves stretching (flexibility), like you would before any kind of physical activity. There is a reason Christian Lindberg & Charlie Vernon are such avid swimmers. Any kind of cardio helps to reduce general stiffness and lends itself to better playing by loosening up your breathing apparatus so you can take a full breath without tension, thus making everything else feel easier, and freer.
- JTeagarden
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Feb 24, 2025
[quote="tromboneVan"]I believe it is simple; you're getting your blood oxygenated and pumping through your muscles. Warming up, in part is getting the blood flowing to your lips, and also it involves stretching (flexibility), like you would before any kind of physical activity. There is a reason Christian Lindberg & Charlie Vernon are such avid swimmers. Any kind of cardio helps to reduce general stiffness and lends itself to better playing by loosening up your breathing apparatus so you can take a full breath without tension, thus making everything else feel easier, and freer.[/quote]
The mystery to me is why I always play great after swimming, while warming up on the horn is often a crapshoot!
The mystery to me is why I always play great after swimming, while warming up on the horn is often a crapshoot!
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="JTeagarden"]<QUOTE author="tromboneVan" post_id="279432" time="1750719763" user_id="6540">
I believe it is simple; you're getting your blood oxygenated and pumping through your muscles. Warming up, in part is getting the blood flowing to your lips, and also it involves stretching (flexibility), like you would before any kind of physical activity. There is a reason Christian Lindberg & Charlie Vernon are such avid swimmers. Any kind of cardio helps to reduce general stiffness and lends itself to better playing by loosening up your breathing apparatus so you can take a full breath without tension, thus making everything else feel easier, and freer.[/quote]
The mystery to me is why I always play great after swimming, while warming up on the horn is often a crapshoot!
</QUOTE>
Physical exercise makes you play better because you breathe freer and better afterwards.
I believe it is simple; you're getting your blood oxygenated and pumping through your muscles. Warming up, in part is getting the blood flowing to your lips, and also it involves stretching (flexibility), like you would before any kind of physical activity. There is a reason Christian Lindberg & Charlie Vernon are such avid swimmers. Any kind of cardio helps to reduce general stiffness and lends itself to better playing by loosening up your breathing apparatus so you can take a full breath without tension, thus making everything else feel easier, and freer.[/quote]
The mystery to me is why I always play great after swimming, while warming up on the horn is often a crapshoot!
</QUOTE>
Physical exercise makes you play better because you breathe freer and better afterwards.
- WGWTR180
- Posts: 2152
- Joined: Sep 04, 2019
I sat in a Broadway pit in New York for over 20 years. The 27 piece orchestra that I worked with was quite the collection of musicians. Between the regulars and the subs(hundreds of them) I heard every warmup imaginable to humankind. When I first started full time there(2002) I was very guarded about how I warmed up and what I warmed up with. Even though I was a chair holder I was aware of what I was actually subjecting my colleagues to. The last 10 years I was there I just mostly used a practice mute. However some folks would come into the pit at 1/2 hour and play everything from their warmup bag through every orchestral excerpt they could think of. Sometimes I wanted to jump up and say "will you please shut the #### up!!! No awareness whatsoever. There were musicians who actually did say something to whoever happened to be displaying their "abilities" in front of everyone. In the end you need to be aware of your surroundings. Know your audience and do your main part pf your warmup at home or somewhere else.
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
My teacher (Ed Herman) had a name for those people who "treated" the other musicians around them to a medley of their fastest slurs, and highest notes, favorite licks, etc. - he called them "Backstage Virtuosos". It's surprising how those high notes and technique don't seem to be there when the gig starts. If possible, I like to do all or most of my warm-up and routine at home, and yes, I do try to touch on high and low range, etc. Nobody needs to hear me working on my skills.
2 quick stories: I was at an audition towards the end of school. There was a giant room with all of the candidates - when you checked in, you got your number and mine was somewhere around #100. There were private rooms for about the 10 players that were "on deck" so any playing before then was in that room. This particular orchestra was very organized, in that they had a couple of copies of a book with all of the excerpts that they would be asking that day - all rounds, and actual parts with start/stop places noted. That wasn't very common back then. There was one young player who set himself up in a spot where everyone would have to pass him when entering/leaving the room and he was playing the Schumann 3rd Symphony 1st trombone part of the chorale that softly goes up to a high E flat. He never once made the high note! I had to go back and check the book again to confirm what I had seen - that excerpt was not being asked on any round!
The other story is the exact opposite - Not long after the previous story, I was back in NYC and was playing a week with the NY Philharmonic. It was a Berlioz piece with extra brass, and the great tuba player Toby Hanks (RIP) was one of the other extras. The 2nd performance was on a Friday afternoon after a concert the night before. Toby left his horn the night before, and I had classes in the morning, so we both showed up at the beginning of the concert and were warming up in the dressing room during the 1st half. His warm-up was so beautiful! Simple long tones and slurs like in the Remington or Schlossberg books but the sound, pitch, attacks and slurs were impeccable! There was a subtle sense of phrasing all of the time, as if the little exercises were great melodies. A masterclass in great brass playing - I kept stopping my own warm-up to listen to his. I've never forgotten that day, and maybe someday my warm-up will sound that good - still trying!
Jim Scott
2 quick stories: I was at an audition towards the end of school. There was a giant room with all of the candidates - when you checked in, you got your number and mine was somewhere around #100. There were private rooms for about the 10 players that were "on deck" so any playing before then was in that room. This particular orchestra was very organized, in that they had a couple of copies of a book with all of the excerpts that they would be asking that day - all rounds, and actual parts with start/stop places noted. That wasn't very common back then. There was one young player who set himself up in a spot where everyone would have to pass him when entering/leaving the room and he was playing the Schumann 3rd Symphony 1st trombone part of the chorale that softly goes up to a high E flat. He never once made the high note! I had to go back and check the book again to confirm what I had seen - that excerpt was not being asked on any round!
The other story is the exact opposite - Not long after the previous story, I was back in NYC and was playing a week with the NY Philharmonic. It was a Berlioz piece with extra brass, and the great tuba player Toby Hanks (RIP) was one of the other extras. The 2nd performance was on a Friday afternoon after a concert the night before. Toby left his horn the night before, and I had classes in the morning, so we both showed up at the beginning of the concert and were warming up in the dressing room during the 1st half. His warm-up was so beautiful! Simple long tones and slurs like in the Remington or Schlossberg books but the sound, pitch, attacks and slurs were impeccable! There was a subtle sense of phrasing all of the time, as if the little exercises were great melodies. A masterclass in great brass playing - I kept stopping my own warm-up to listen to his. I've never forgotten that day, and maybe someday my warm-up will sound that good - still trying!
Jim Scott
- TomInME
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Jan 03, 2024
[quote="CalgaryTbone"]His warm-up was so beautiful! Simple long tones and slurs like in the Remington or Schlossberg books but the sound, pitch, attacks and slurs were impeccable! There was a subtle sense of phrasing all of the time, as if the little exercises were great melodies.[/quote]
There's a danger in having a "warm-up" or routine in that it can be lifeless, and that lifelessness will carry over into the rest of your playing.
Toby was illustrating how it should be done: bring life to even the simplest things and it becomes your baseline for everything.
Now, if only I can remember to do that...
There's a danger in having a "warm-up" or routine in that it can be lifeless, and that lifelessness will carry over into the rest of your playing.
Toby was illustrating how it should be done: bring life to even the simplest things and it becomes your baseline for everything.
Now, if only I can remember to do that...
- AtomicClock
- Posts: 1094
- Joined: Oct 19, 2023
[quote="CalgaryTbone"]Simple long tones and slurs like in the Remington or Schlossberg books but the sound, pitch, attacks and slurs were impeccable! There was a subtle sense of phrasing all of the time, as if the little exercises were great melodies. A masterclass in great brass playing[/quote]
Honestly, this is what I thought the thread topic was. When Dana mentioned "only warm up on things that make you sound good", my mind went straight to fundamentals, not pyrotechnics.
I guess I reinterpreted it as "your fundamentals should be so solid that they will impress your peers".
Honestly, this is what I thought the thread topic was. When Dana mentioned "only warm up on things that make you sound good", my mind went straight to fundamentals, not pyrotechnics.
I guess I reinterpreted it as "your fundamentals should be so solid that they will impress your peers".
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="JTeagarden"]I wish I knew what it is I am actually <I>warming up </I>when I warm up, I notice for instance that if I go swimming, absolutely no warm up is necessary for the next 5-6 hours, everything is coordinated and ready to go.[/quote]
When I first started playing in 5th grade band, the band director told us that "warming up" just meant physically warming up the instrument to tune. I don't think it's quite that simple (I play better after I take time to warm up, especially if I was playing a different horn the night before), but I kind of like that mentality just from a mindset perspective.
When I first started playing in 5th grade band, the band director told us that "warming up" just meant physically warming up the instrument to tune. I don't think it's quite that simple (I play better after I take time to warm up, especially if I was playing a different horn the night before), but I kind of like that mentality just from a mindset perspective.