Joining a German band, maybe. Any tips?
- Kingfan
- Posts: 1371
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
Local German social club is looking for new players. I've played in concert bands, wind ensembles, orchestras, brass ensembles big and small, big bands, pit bands, and more, but never a German band. Rehearsal is about two hours, gigs three. Any tips other than don't drink too much beer?
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Most of the German Bands I've played in didn't rehearse -- and it showed.
A small band, à la Hungry 5 (2 clarinets, cornet, trombone or euphonium, and tuba) can be a fun hang. Lots of gigs from mid-August to early November (Oktoberfest season).
Standard rep includes tons of polkas, waltzes, and marches. Figure out a harmony part for "In Heaven There Ain't No Beer" and also for the German National Anthem (Deutschland Uber Alles) since you will probably be playing them till they come out of your ears.
Above all, have fun! Note: ginger ale can substitute for beer if you have to have a stein of something on stage.
A small band, à la Hungry 5 (2 clarinets, cornet, trombone or euphonium, and tuba) can be a fun hang. Lots of gigs from mid-August to early November (Oktoberfest season).
Standard rep includes tons of polkas, waltzes, and marches. Figure out a harmony part for "In Heaven There Ain't No Beer" and also for the German National Anthem (Deutschland Uber Alles) since you will probably be playing them till they come out of your ears.
Above all, have fun! Note: ginger ale can substitute for beer if you have to have a stein of something on stage.
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
[quote="BGuttman"]Figure out a harmony part for "In Heaven There Ain't No Beer" and also for the German National Anthem (Deutschland Uber Alles) since you will probably be playing them till they come out of your ears.[/quote]
What you consider a German band is not so much a thing in northwestern Germany, so I never really played in one.
But one thing is for sure: The German national anthem is NOT "Deutschland über alles". The verse that we are (only) singing today is "Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit". The other one hopefully never again.
What you consider a German band is not so much a thing in northwestern Germany, so I never really played in one.
But one thing is for sure: The German national anthem is NOT "Deutschland über alles". The verse that we are (only) singing today is "Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit". The other one hopefully never again.
- Schultz
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Jeez Bruce. That hasn’t been the used text of the German national anthem since the 1991 reunification. The third verse is currently in use as the text of the anthem, as what you wrote is considered to be quite offensive!
- Bach50b3
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Jul 04, 2025
My wife plays accordion, clarinet, and sings in a German band in the Chicago-land area. Oktoberfest is a busy (but lucrative) time in our house.
Once in a great while, if I'm free, she'll ask if I wanna throw on some lederhosen and sit in. I usually bring a baritone and just play the melodies (get good at your C and Bb treble clef reading!)
In heaven there is no beer, Prost tunes, Eidelweiss, etc. She also throws in alphorn playing and bells.
My advice? Fill your stein with ice tea or apple juice, or else you'll be pretty sloppy by the end of the gig.
Once in a great while, if I'm free, she'll ask if I wanna throw on some lederhosen and sit in. I usually bring a baritone and just play the melodies (get good at your C and Bb treble clef reading!)
In heaven there is no beer, Prost tunes, Eidelweiss, etc. She also throws in alphorn playing and bells.
My advice? Fill your stein with ice tea or apple juice, or else you'll be pretty sloppy by the end of the gig.
- MrHCinDE
- Posts: 1039
- Joined: Jul 01, 2018
Staying away from beer is wise, I much prefer 1L Maßkrüge of Weinschorle aka. 50:50 wine.
A lot of the Bohemian Polkas (might be played by a “German” band) have a similar form, I’d suggest to hold back quite a bit until the last repeat of the trio sections, it get’s a bit boring and repetitive if everything is a similar dynamic, better to save a bit for the big finish. Don’t just blindly play the written dynamics.
Personally I like to generally play long phrases (usually 8 bars) in most polkas.
Also a lot of groups play deliberately a bit clunky.
Really clean off beats in the trombones are important.
Have a play round with a bit of push and pull on the tempo, even within a bar, e.g. pushing the start a bit then hanging back on or accenting off beats, works on some stuff, not all.
I saw a supposed quote from the drummer of the Egerländer Musikanten (Bohemian style music) who described that the tuba should sound like cow pats landing on the floor.
A lot of the Bohemian Polkas (might be played by a “German” band) have a similar form, I’d suggest to hold back quite a bit until the last repeat of the trio sections, it get’s a bit boring and repetitive if everything is a similar dynamic, better to save a bit for the big finish. Don’t just blindly play the written dynamics.
Personally I like to generally play long phrases (usually 8 bars) in most polkas.
Also a lot of groups play deliberately a bit clunky.
Really clean off beats in the trombones are important.
Have a play round with a bit of push and pull on the tempo, even within a bar, e.g. pushing the start a bit then hanging back on or accenting off beats, works on some stuff, not all.
I saw a supposed quote from the drummer of the Egerländer Musikanten (Bohemian style music) who described that the tuba should sound like cow pats landing on the floor.
- dwcarder
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Jun 27, 2023
This is the style band I spend most of my time in. It's a hoot and I love every bit of it.
In thinking about a list of tips:
- Shift to the mindset that you are part of the rhythm section and really lock in w/ the low brass.
- At other times you are called in to provide raw power where the euphs can't, so make those moments count.
- don't try to read/track a page full of upbeats when you get those, just follow the chord changes.
- In our band we standardized on small bore tenors for a consistent sound that's brighter, and honestly not too loud compared to a large bore symphonic oriented horn. I picked up a secondhand horn just for this band so there's no worry if something happens to it.
- Build up endurance to survive, working towards a 3hr Oktoberfest gig.
- Related to the above... trade off w/ a stand partner & take breaks here and there. (As I have been playing cornet this year, depending on the piece we can often we sit out the 1st time through repeats. This gives a chance for recovery and makes the 2nd time through have more impact when we come in.)
- When playing outside, everyone tends towards playing too loud so back off. There was a recent thread here on this.
- Get used to playing w/ hearing protection. Especially in a tent a large ensemble can be overwhelming.
- Practice sight reading as you will have a lot of material that probably only gets rehearsed once or twice.
- With the above, come up w/ a system to mark your parts as the roadmaps can be all over the place. Laugh at my example here: <LINK_TEXT text="viewtopic.php?p=280053#p280053">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?p=280053#p280053</LINK_TEXT>
- Understand that your audience is just there to have a good time, and do your part to make sure this happens.
- As much as it pains me, I'm typically for zero beer until the gig is over.
In thinking about a list of tips:
- Shift to the mindset that you are part of the rhythm section and really lock in w/ the low brass.
- At other times you are called in to provide raw power where the euphs can't, so make those moments count.
- don't try to read/track a page full of upbeats when you get those, just follow the chord changes.
- In our band we standardized on small bore tenors for a consistent sound that's brighter, and honestly not too loud compared to a large bore symphonic oriented horn. I picked up a secondhand horn just for this band so there's no worry if something happens to it.
- Build up endurance to survive, working towards a 3hr Oktoberfest gig.
- Related to the above... trade off w/ a stand partner & take breaks here and there. (As I have been playing cornet this year, depending on the piece we can often we sit out the 1st time through repeats. This gives a chance for recovery and makes the 2nd time through have more impact when we come in.)
- When playing outside, everyone tends towards playing too loud so back off. There was a recent thread here on this.
- Get used to playing w/ hearing protection. Especially in a tent a large ensemble can be overwhelming.
- Practice sight reading as you will have a lot of material that probably only gets rehearsed once or twice.
- With the above, come up w/ a system to mark your parts as the roadmaps can be all over the place. Laugh at my example here: <LINK_TEXT text="viewtopic.php?p=280053#p280053">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?p=280053#p280053</LINK_TEXT>
- Understand that your audience is just there to have a good time, and do your part to make sure this happens.
- As much as it pains me, I'm typically for zero beer until the gig is over.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
There is apparently a difference between a German German Band and an American German Band. As Greg (OP) is in Ohio, a lot of the very valid criticisms from Germany may not be his experience. In America we still think Haydn wrote the German National Anthem. Much like we don't know about "Advance Australia Fair" as the Aussie one.
Entertainment is indeed the name of the game. Real or simulated lederhosen, an alpine hat with lots of metal commemorative pins, and perhaps a small Bavarian flag stuffed somewhere add to the aura.
One trombone solo to consider with a larger group would be "Here I Sit In Deep Cellar" (Im Tiefen Keller). Lots of low jumps.
Entertainment is indeed the name of the game. Real or simulated lederhosen, an alpine hat with lots of metal commemorative pins, and perhaps a small Bavarian flag stuffed somewhere add to the aura.
One trombone solo to consider with a larger group would be "Here I Sit In Deep Cellar" (Im Tiefen Keller). Lots of low jumps.
- MrHCinDE
- Posts: 1039
- Joined: Jul 01, 2018
We still play the music written by Haydn and the third verse of the original text.
The first verse of the original text was sung in combination with the nazi anthem “Horst-Wessel-Lied” and is still considered by many to be inextricably linked to the nazi regime. Although the German constitutional court ruled in 1990 that the first and second verses are not banned, thanks to protection of artistic freedom, they are also no longer part of the official German national anthem. I would fall off my chair in shock if anyone made the creative decision to play the 1st/2nd verse and it would seem truly odd that people in the USA would want to sing an anthem in the form which was not used for 80 years. What kind of a strange celebration of outdated view of German culture and close associations with the nazi era would that be? I know freedom of speech is important in the USA but anyone choosing to play it should have a think about whether that’s a hill worth dying on.
The first verse of the original text was sung in combination with the nazi anthem “Horst-Wessel-Lied” and is still considered by many to be inextricably linked to the nazi regime. Although the German constitutional court ruled in 1990 that the first and second verses are not banned, thanks to protection of artistic freedom, they are also no longer part of the official German national anthem. I would fall off my chair in shock if anyone made the creative decision to play the 1st/2nd verse and it would seem truly odd that people in the USA would want to sing an anthem in the form which was not used for 80 years. What kind of a strange celebration of outdated view of German culture and close associations with the nazi era would that be? I know freedom of speech is important in the USA but anyone choosing to play it should have a think about whether that’s a hill worth dying on.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
We don't sing the anthem. We play the tune. I've never heard anybody sing it at an Oktoberfest event in the US. I still like to listen to the set of variations written for string quartet.
- MrHCinDE
- Posts: 1039
- Joined: Jul 01, 2018
Since you don’t sing it, all the more reason not to refer to the German national anthem it by the first line of a verse which is no longer part of the national anthem.
It is factually incorrect to refer to the (current) German national anthem as Deutschland über alles, that text is not part of the national anthem.
It is factually incorrect to refer to the (current) German national anthem as Deutschland über alles, that text is not part of the national anthem.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
You may find it interesting that I found a book of American patriotic tunes from 1916 which includes Haydn's tune with lyrics that begin "Ark of Freedom, glory's dwelling, Columbia, God preserve thee free!" Just to educate me, what is the current official name of the German national anthem?
We Americans steal all kinds of others' music to make our repertoire of patriotic music. :)
We Americans steal all kinds of others' music to make our repertoire of patriotic music. :)
- ghmerrill
- Posts: 2193
- Joined: Apr 02, 2018
[quote="BGuttman"]We Americans steal all kinds of others' music to make our repertoire of patriotic music. :)[/quote]
Nah ... it's brought to us as gifts by all those people who choose to move here. :lol:
Nah ... it's brought to us as gifts by all those people who choose to move here. :lol:
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
[quote="BGuttman"]You may find it interesting that I found a book of American patriotic tunes from 1916 which includes Haydn's tune with lyrics that begin "Ark of Freedom, glory's dwelling, Columbia, God preserve thee free!" Just to educate me, what is the current official name of the German national anthem?[/quote]
The alternative, but rarely used name of the national anthem is "Deutschlandlied" or "Lied der Deutschen", but ONLY the third verse. If you read the other two and think about German history, you understand why. In Germany it's mostly just referred to as Nationalhymne.
Germany is known for being very careful and cautious and sometimes maybe overly politically correct, which has developed as a sensitive way of distancing from its past. And therefor it is important to not refer to the wrong verse as national anthem.
The alternative, but rarely used name of the national anthem is "Deutschlandlied" or "Lied der Deutschen", but ONLY the third verse. If you read the other two and think about German history, you understand why. In Germany it's mostly just referred to as Nationalhymne.
Germany is known for being very careful and cautious and sometimes maybe overly politically correct, which has developed as a sensitive way of distancing from its past. And therefor it is important to not refer to the wrong verse as national anthem.
- JTeagarden
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Feb 24, 2025
[quote="BGuttman"]There is apparently a difference between a German German Band and an American German Band. As Greg (OP) is in Ohio, a lot of the very valid criticisms from Germany may not be his experience. In America we still think Haydn wrote the German National Anthem. Much like we don't know about "Advance Australia Fair" as the Aussie one.[/quote]
Or that "Edelweiss" is from a musical, and not a time-honored German folk tune, and that nobody in Germany ever heard of "Schnitzelbank"...
I played in various traditional brass ensembles when I lived in Germany, and the trombone is frequently not even part of the mix in traditional instrumentations, with the voice taken by tenorhorns (aka the "least in-tune low brass instrument."), these bands are a southern German/Austrian/Bohemian phenomenon, never saw one in the Rheinland.
Most natives get a kick out of what we in the US consider to be authentic German culture, a kind of Disneyfied Bavarian thing!
Or that "Edelweiss" is from a musical, and not a time-honored German folk tune, and that nobody in Germany ever heard of "Schnitzelbank"...
I played in various traditional brass ensembles when I lived in Germany, and the trombone is frequently not even part of the mix in traditional instrumentations, with the voice taken by tenorhorns (aka the "least in-tune low brass instrument."), these bands are a southern German/Austrian/Bohemian phenomenon, never saw one in the Rheinland.
Most natives get a kick out of what we in the US consider to be authentic German culture, a kind of Disneyfied Bavarian thing!
- MrHCinDE
- Posts: 1039
- Joined: Jul 01, 2018
[quote="BGuttman"]You may find it interesting that I found a book of American patriotic tunes from 1916 which includes Haydn's tune with lyrics that begin "Ark of Freedom, glory's dwelling, Columbia, God preserve thee free!" Just to educate me, what is the current official name of the German national anthem?
We Americans steal all kinds of others' music to make our repertoire of patriotic music. :)[/quote]
That is interesting, I also learned from you the music was originally a string quartet which you mentioned in another post.
In other national anthem trivia tenuously related to German bands, here’s something very odd indeed:
<YOUTUBE id="yg2ZUGCc1NQ">https://youtu.be/yg2ZUGCc1NQ?si=nAC_qHSOAf4oUyz4</YOUTUBE>
Quite how the British national anthem ended up being played at the 2nd biggest beer festival in Bavaria with the alternative text of Blutwurst (blood sausage) and Sauerkraut I don’t know, but as a British-born person living there I was very surprised when I heard it the first time. It’s sung on the closing day of the festival every year just before or after the last keg of beer is taken off and buried.
We Americans steal all kinds of others' music to make our repertoire of patriotic music. :)[/quote]
That is interesting, I also learned from you the music was originally a string quartet which you mentioned in another post.
In other national anthem trivia tenuously related to German bands, here’s something very odd indeed:
<YOUTUBE id="yg2ZUGCc1NQ">https://youtu.be/yg2ZUGCc1NQ?si=nAC_qHSOAf4oUyz4</YOUTUBE>
Quite how the British national anthem ended up being played at the 2nd biggest beer festival in Bavaria with the alternative text of Blutwurst (blood sausage) and Sauerkraut I don’t know, but as a British-born person living there I was very surprised when I heard it the first time. It’s sung on the closing day of the festival every year just before or after the last keg of beer is taken off and buried.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="JTeagarden"]Most natives get a kick out of what we in the US consider to be authentic German culture, a kind of Disneyfied Bavarian thing![/quote]
Which is somewhat ironic, since Disneyland, ground zero for Disneyfication of cultures, is located in Anaheim - which was founded by Germans.
Which is somewhat ironic, since Disneyland, ground zero for Disneyfication of cultures, is located in Anaheim - which was founded by Germans.
- Kingfan
- Posts: 1371
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
OK, swinging the discussion back to the original post - yes, I played a LOT of off-beats as mentioned above. My problem was reading the road maps - directions were in German, and there were some songs with multiple repeats and two codas. I flunked reading the road map on a few pieces. That said, the members were all good people. I guess I didn't screw up too bad because they gave me a book of music and took my contact info. Only had one beer, but i didn't have to pay for it - bonus!
- RustBeltBass
- Posts: 382
- Joined: Jul 17, 2018
[quote="Kingfan"]OK, swinging the discussion back to the original post - yes, I played a LOT of off-beats as mentioned above. My problem was reading the road maps - directions were in German, and there were some songs with multiple repeats and two codas. I flunked reading the road map on a few pieces. That said, the members were all good people. I guess I didn't screw up too bad because they gave me a book of music and took my contact info. Only had one beer, but i didn't have to pay for it - bonus![/quote]
Congratulations! By bringing the book home with you you are now and for the rest of your life, expected to show for every rehearsal, Xmas concert and party, the yearly meeting on budget/elections on who is serving on the adminiatration team, the yearly Schützenfest/Kirchweih and the yearly weekend bus tour.
You are going to have fun and will find some true friends. And God bless your liver.
Congratulations! By bringing the book home with you you are now and for the rest of your life, expected to show for every rehearsal, Xmas concert and party, the yearly meeting on budget/elections on who is serving on the adminiatration team, the yearly Schützenfest/Kirchweih and the yearly weekend bus tour.
You are going to have fun and will find some true friends. And God bless your liver.
- JTeagarden
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Feb 24, 2025
[quote="JohnL"]<QUOTE author="JTeagarden" post_id="280731" time="1752089149" user_id="19182">Most natives get a kick out of what we in the US consider to be authentic German culture, a kind of Disneyfied Bavarian thing![/quote]
Which is somewhat ironic, since Disneyland, ground zero for Disneyfication of cultures, is located in Anaheim - which was founded by Germans.
</QUOTE>
Nobody does Kitsch quite as well as the Germans, just watch one of their folk music programs on TV, what a friend liked to call "Volksverdummung."
Which is somewhat ironic, since Disneyland, ground zero for Disneyfication of cultures, is located in Anaheim - which was founded by Germans.
</QUOTE>
Nobody does Kitsch quite as well as the Germans, just watch one of their folk music programs on TV, what a friend liked to call "Volksverdummung."
- timothy42b
- Posts: 1812
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
[quote="Kingfan"]My problem was reading the road maps - directions were in German, and there were some songs with multiple repeats and two codas. I flunked reading the road map on a few pieces.[/quote]
The roadmap is intimidating at first. They never use ink if you can be redirected to an earlier section, and you're never sure which repeats are used in DC and DS - varies with the local group. I like a tablet for this because I can mark and highlight as much as I want, erase with a click when the directions change. But you get used to it.
And they use the ink savings on the flats. Lots of flats, I've even seen 8 in the key signature.
Afterbeats are often written for multiple sections without regard for timbre, so if you can near someone else playing it it's usually okay to take a break.
The roadmap is intimidating at first. They never use ink if you can be redirected to an earlier section, and you're never sure which repeats are used in DC and DS - varies with the local group. I like a tablet for this because I can mark and highlight as much as I want, erase with a click when the directions change. But you get used to it.
And they use the ink savings on the flats. Lots of flats, I've even seen 8 in the key signature.
Afterbeats are often written for multiple sections without regard for timbre, so if you can near someone else playing it it's usually okay to take a break.
- Kingfan
- Posts: 1371
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
OK, I now have three rehearsals and three gigs under my belt. So far so good. The band's name is "Gemütlichkeit Cleveländer Musikanten". Roughly translated we are "Cleveland Musicians of Warmth and Good Cheer". It fits - all players are nice people, we play to make the audiences happy. We do mostly traditional German band music but also do mean covers of "Sweet Caroline" and "Suspicious Minds" and a polka arrangement of "Hey Jude". I even bought my own lederhosen!