High and fast
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
No, I'm not talking about how I drive. :D
I work hard at trying to play musically. I actually spend a lot of time figuring out how best to play slow, lyrical things like a ballad. Playing a ballad or other lyrical piece well is probably the hardest thing I ever do. And when I succeed at these things I feel pretty accomplished, and I hope other people notice these victories.
But most of the feedback I get is for playing high notes and ripping off fast passages. One high note gets a far bigger response than a beautiful ballad. I transcribed the slow and soulful Patrick Williams tune, "Times," and brought it into a group to be played. The ensemble sounds good on some pretty ambitious stuff, but on "Times" they stumbled, and I told them, "This is the hardest tune you will ever play in this group," and I meant it. That kind of thing is really difficult to pull off well.
People seem to love high notes and fast notes, though. That's kind of weird, right? Why do you think that is? Why do we love "high and fast" more than just about anything else? And do you think that's just a "trombone thing," or does that phenomenon run across other instruments and instrument families, too?
I work hard at trying to play musically. I actually spend a lot of time figuring out how best to play slow, lyrical things like a ballad. Playing a ballad or other lyrical piece well is probably the hardest thing I ever do. And when I succeed at these things I feel pretty accomplished, and I hope other people notice these victories.
But most of the feedback I get is for playing high notes and ripping off fast passages. One high note gets a far bigger response than a beautiful ballad. I transcribed the slow and soulful Patrick Williams tune, "Times," and brought it into a group to be played. The ensemble sounds good on some pretty ambitious stuff, but on "Times" they stumbled, and I told them, "This is the hardest tune you will ever play in this group," and I meant it. That kind of thing is really difficult to pull off well.
People seem to love high notes and fast notes, though. That's kind of weird, right? Why do you think that is? Why do we love "high and fast" more than just about anything else? And do you think that's just a "trombone thing," or does that phenomenon run across other instruments and instrument families, too?
- AtomicClock
- Posts: 1094
- Joined: Oct 19, 2023
I thought it was a brass or wind instrument thing. Maynard thrilled even the non-musician audiences. But I've seen guitarists get audience reaction from high notes, too. Maybe it's stage presence and body language that indicates something hard is happening?
No one has ever been impressed by a high note on a piano.
No one has ever been impressed by a high note on a piano.
- ghmerrill
- Posts: 2193
- Joined: Apr 02, 2018
[quote="AtomicClock"]No one has ever been impressed by a high note on a piano.[/quote]
Or a harpsichord or a synthesizer. A high note (pitch) you play on a trombone and impresses people will not impress people if you play it on a piccolo or a fife. No mystery here. It's a matter of displaying a skill. I've been in an audience which applauded wildly to a bass trombonist playing a single pedal note (on the valves) to end a solo.
Or a harpsichord or a synthesizer. A high note (pitch) you play on a trombone and impresses people will not impress people if you play it on a piccolo or a fife. No mystery here. It's a matter of displaying a skill. I've been in an audience which applauded wildly to a bass trombonist playing a single pedal note (on the valves) to end a solo.
- AndrewMeronek
- Posts: 1487
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
[quote="AtomicClock"]No one has ever been impressed by a high note on a piano.[/quote]
But lots of notes, yes.
Actually, I HAVE seen people be impressed by a high note on a keyboard. Typically, in metal shows.
. . .
I think it's a showmanship thing. Usually, it's not just playing the high and fast notes, but smiling afterwards and looking like you're having a great time. Maynard was great at that.
But lots of notes, yes.
Actually, I HAVE seen people be impressed by a high note on a keyboard. Typically, in metal shows.
. . .
I think it's a showmanship thing. Usually, it's not just playing the high and fast notes, but smiling afterwards and looking like you're having a great time. Maynard was great at that.
- AtomicClock
- Posts: 1094
- Joined: Oct 19, 2023
One of my favorite trombone-concerto-with-piano CDs is from a lesser-known musician who is clearly not as polished as today's Alessis & Bousfields. You can tell he's really working hard, and that adds something. Even on the not so high, not so fast stuff.
The "beautiful ballads" Dana wants to play are maybe too beautiful? I don't hear much cheering at the local art museum.
The "beautiful ballads" Dana wants to play are maybe too beautiful? I don't hear much cheering at the local art museum.
- EriKon
- Posts: 636
- Joined: Apr 03, 2022
[quote="tbdana"]People seem to love high notes and fast notes, though. That's kind of weird, right? Why do you think that is? Why do we love "high and fast" more than just about anything else? And do you think that's just a "trombone thing," or does that phenomenon run across other instruments and instrument families, too?[/quote]
I would like to oppose the sentiment that "we" love high and fast. I don't. Sure, it can be fun and thrilling but that's not what I want to listen to all the time. There's a tendency in technical perfection and extending the boundaries of the instrument to aim for higher and faster all the time and I absolutely don't enjoy it. Some players who are capable of doing this, play every solo in the high register & fast lines too and to be honest, I'm bored after 3 solos/songs. I understand why trombone players find it fascinating tho.
That said, I strive to be better in playing higher and faster every day but not to be able to brag about it but to have the possibility to use it when I feel it is appropriate.
The after-gig compliments that stuck the most with me are when people tell me that I played a wonderful ballad and it felt like I was singing through the horn. Not when I played a crazy bebop solo.
I would like to oppose the sentiment that "we" love high and fast. I don't. Sure, it can be fun and thrilling but that's not what I want to listen to all the time. There's a tendency in technical perfection and extending the boundaries of the instrument to aim for higher and faster all the time and I absolutely don't enjoy it. Some players who are capable of doing this, play every solo in the high register & fast lines too and to be honest, I'm bored after 3 solos/songs. I understand why trombone players find it fascinating tho.
That said, I strive to be better in playing higher and faster every day but not to be able to brag about it but to have the possibility to use it when I feel it is appropriate.
The after-gig compliments that stuck the most with me are when people tell me that I played a wonderful ballad and it felt like I was singing through the horn. Not when I played a crazy bebop solo.
- JTeagarden
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Feb 24, 2025
I think of a trombonist playing high and fast as aspiring to be the world's tallest dwarf: impressive if you happen to know what it represents as an achievement, but saxes and trumpets with half the comparative skill will play rings around even the best of us.
I really think the trombone's wheelhouse is its sound, the huge variation in colors you can get from it, in contrast say to a euphonium, which can play lots of notes, with none of them being interesting.
I really think the trombone's wheelhouse is its sound, the huge variation in colors you can get from it, in contrast say to a euphonium, which can play lots of notes, with none of them being interesting.
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
[quote="EriKon"]That said, I strive to be better in playing higher and faster every day but not to be able to brag about it but to have the possibility to use it when I feel it is appropriate.[/quote]
Exactly! It's great to be able to do it. We should all be capable of it. If nothing else it gives you tremendous confidence. And used appropriately it's very effective. But that doesn't mean you have to do it all the freakin' time!
One of my "criticisms" of Watrous was that he played high and fast on every single tune. Every solo was a circus act of death defying tromboning. But it's what his audiences wanted. Of course, he could play a melted butter ballad better than anyone else out there, too, and his audiences went nuts for those, as well.
That's what I'm talkin' 'bout! :)
Exactly! It's great to be able to do it. We should all be capable of it. If nothing else it gives you tremendous confidence. And used appropriately it's very effective. But that doesn't mean you have to do it all the freakin' time!
One of my "criticisms" of Watrous was that he played high and fast on every single tune. Every solo was a circus act of death defying tromboning. But it's what his audiences wanted. Of course, he could play a melted butter ballad better than anyone else out there, too, and his audiences went nuts for those, as well.
The after-gig compliments that stuck the most with me are when people tell me that I played a wonderful ballad and it felt like I was singing through the horn. Not when I played a crazy bebop solo.
That's what I'm talkin' 'bout! :)
- timothy42b
- Posts: 1812
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
Does anyone remember the phrase "high and fiddly?"
- JTeagarden
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Feb 24, 2025
[quote="timothy42b"]Does anyone remember the phrase "high and fiddly?"[/quote]
A Sam Burtis-ism, I recall
A Sam Burtis-ism, I recall
- timothy42b
- Posts: 1812
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
[quote="JTeagarden"]<QUOTE author="timothy42b" post_id="282036" time="1753461746" user_id="211">
Does anyone remember the phrase "high and fiddly?"[/quote]
A Sam Burtis-ism, I recall
</QUOTE>
No, it was one of the moderators from the UK. Oldtimer's has me slow to retrieve a name but hers will come to me shortly.
Does anyone remember the phrase "high and fiddly?"[/quote]
A Sam Burtis-ism, I recall
</QUOTE>
No, it was one of the moderators from the UK. Oldtimer's has me slow to retrieve a name but hers will come to me shortly.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="timothy42b"]Does anyone remember the phrase "high and fiddly?"[/quote]
I think that was something RHM (Christine Woodcock) came up with.
I think that was something RHM (Christine Woodcock) came up with.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="JohnL"]<QUOTE author="timothy42b" post_id="282036" time="1753461746" user_id="211">
Does anyone remember the phrase "high and fiddly?"[/quote]
I think that was something RHM (Christine Woodcock) came up with.
</QUOTE>
Most definitely RHM (Christine) Wonder what happened to her?
Does anyone remember the phrase "high and fiddly?"[/quote]
I think that was something RHM (Christine Woodcock) came up with.
</QUOTE>
Most definitely RHM (Christine) Wonder what happened to her?
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="BGuttman"]<QUOTE author="JohnL" post_id="282047" time="1753465454" user_id="119">
I think that was something RHM (Christine Woodcock) came up with.[/quote]
Most definitely RHM (Christine). Wonder what happened to her?
</QUOTE>
Here's Christine (and the "Stackyard Stompers") 9 years ago:
<YOUTUBE id="_ZRE-qoHUOo">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZRE-qoHUOo</YOUTUBE>
I think that was something RHM (Christine Woodcock) came up with.[/quote]
Most definitely RHM (Christine). Wonder what happened to her?
</QUOTE>
Here's Christine (and the "Stackyard Stompers") 9 years ago:
<YOUTUBE id="_ZRE-qoHUOo">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZRE-qoHUOo</YOUTUBE>
- timothy42b
- Posts: 1812
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
Thanks for sharing that. I watched several other Stomper videos. They're enthusiastic.
And RHM is still not playing anything "high and fiddly." Good to know she hasn't gone to the dark side in the past ?20 years? 30 years? Something like that. I hope they're all still around. That band seems on the mature side.
One actual comment on the performance. The trombone is not miked, so on the one hand she's not prominent in the mix, but on the other hand she can move all over the place. Or maybe UK club players just do that.
And RHM is still not playing anything "high and fiddly." Good to know she hasn't gone to the dark side in the past ?20 years? 30 years? Something like that. I hope they're all still around. That band seems on the mature side.
One actual comment on the performance. The trombone is not miked, so on the one hand she's not prominent in the mix, but on the other hand she can move all over the place. Or maybe UK club players just do that.