Which ensembles work best?
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
I have had pretty tiring and demotivating experiences trying to establish first a brass quintet and then a large/ten piece brass ensemble.
People are first very interested, but not willing to invest any work outside the rehearsals. Trumpets that can play on the required level are really hard to find, many "characters" involved, many have the stylistic flexibility of a railway track...
On the other hand every 2 years I am organising a trombone ensemble (8-10 players) project with friends which is always great fun and none of these issues.
I would really love to have an ensemble with rehearsals maybe every two to four weeks and some concert every now and then. But it's really tricky to get this established and keep it running.
What ensembles do you find most rewarding? And which seem to work best?
I tend towards a 4 to 6 people trombone ensemble, but would love to hear your experiences.
People are first very interested, but not willing to invest any work outside the rehearsals. Trumpets that can play on the required level are really hard to find, many "characters" involved, many have the stylistic flexibility of a railway track...
On the other hand every 2 years I am organising a trombone ensemble (8-10 players) project with friends which is always great fun and none of these issues.
I would really love to have an ensemble with rehearsals maybe every two to four weeks and some concert every now and then. But it's really tricky to get this established and keep it running.
What ensembles do you find most rewarding? And which seem to work best?
I tend towards a 4 to 6 people trombone ensemble, but would love to hear your experiences.
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
[quote="MStarke"]People are first very interested, but not willing to invest any work outside the rehearsals.[/quote]
Well, I mean yeah, that's what you're going to have. It's YOUR ensemble, not theirs. And yours is just one of a number that they may play in. And since it's not practice for a gig you've hired them for, then why would they want to put in work outside of rehearsal? Your group just isn't a huge priority for them.
Frankly, if what you're looking for is a really great performance during your rehearsals, you need to focus on getting players who can sight read very well and who have the chops to play what you are putting in front of them without practicing it. The other alternative is what is eluding you right now: finding lesser players who are willing to take the music home and practice it to perfection. And even then, with the lower ability player you're still not going to get a great performance even if they can play all the notes. And you're not going to get the stylistic flexibility you're looking for with lower level players. You need excellent players.
I'd either adjust my expectations and just get together for fun, or do what you need to do to draw the really good players (if there are any in your area, as you allude to it being tough to even find good trumpet players).
Well, I mean yeah, that's what you're going to have. It's YOUR ensemble, not theirs. And yours is just one of a number that they may play in. And since it's not practice for a gig you've hired them for, then why would they want to put in work outside of rehearsal? Your group just isn't a huge priority for them.
Frankly, if what you're looking for is a really great performance during your rehearsals, you need to focus on getting players who can sight read very well and who have the chops to play what you are putting in front of them without practicing it. The other alternative is what is eluding you right now: finding lesser players who are willing to take the music home and practice it to perfection. And even then, with the lower ability player you're still not going to get a great performance even if they can play all the notes. And you're not going to get the stylistic flexibility you're looking for with lower level players. You need excellent players.
I'd either adjust my expectations and just get together for fun, or do what you need to do to draw the really good players (if there are any in your area, as you allude to it being tough to even find good trumpet players).
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
[quote="tbdana"]<QUOTE author="MStarke" post_id="283945" time="1755720683" user_id="4208">
People are first very interested, but not willing to invest any work outside the rehearsals.[/quote]
Well, I mean yeah, that's what you're going to have. It's YOUR ensemble, not theirs. And yours is just one of a number that they may play in. And since it's not practice for a gig you've hired them for, then why would they want to put in work outside of rehearsal? Your group just isn't a huge priority for them.
</QUOTE>
I do understand these points and also the others in your post. However I do have a sort of different perspective, among others
- I don't see ensemble/chamber music stuff as one person's ("my") work, but as collaborative effort. I have in other settings had very good experience with people proactively contributing to organising rehearsals and concerts, selecting music appropriate for the ensemble, supporting marketing when needed, adding value to rehearsals etc
- Also in these scenarios that I mentioned in my original post, it was clearly communicated multiple times that contribution is required for things to work
So I do respect your opinion, but would hope - and know that it's not totally unrealistic - that people are not just consuming what someone else is organising.
Also we are talking what I would call a semi-pro scenario:
Mostly people that do play on a really good level, but do not depend on these projects to be paid.
I live in relatively large and populated area. Trombonists, horn players and even tubists are somewhat okay to find and really easy to motivate for this kind of work. But trumpet players are always a real bottleneck.
I would really like to hear what ensembles you had good experience with, where people are happy to participate and maybe even go a little beyond that.
People are first very interested, but not willing to invest any work outside the rehearsals.[/quote]
Well, I mean yeah, that's what you're going to have. It's YOUR ensemble, not theirs. And yours is just one of a number that they may play in. And since it's not practice for a gig you've hired them for, then why would they want to put in work outside of rehearsal? Your group just isn't a huge priority for them.
</QUOTE>
I do understand these points and also the others in your post. However I do have a sort of different perspective, among others
- I don't see ensemble/chamber music stuff as one person's ("my") work, but as collaborative effort. I have in other settings had very good experience with people proactively contributing to organising rehearsals and concerts, selecting music appropriate for the ensemble, supporting marketing when needed, adding value to rehearsals etc
- Also in these scenarios that I mentioned in my original post, it was clearly communicated multiple times that contribution is required for things to work
So I do respect your opinion, but would hope - and know that it's not totally unrealistic - that people are not just consuming what someone else is organising.
Also we are talking what I would call a semi-pro scenario:
Mostly people that do play on a really good level, but do not depend on these projects to be paid.
I live in relatively large and populated area. Trombonists, horn players and even tubists are somewhat okay to find and really easy to motivate for this kind of work. But trumpet players are always a real bottleneck.
I would really like to hear what ensembles you had good experience with, where people are happy to participate and maybe even go a little beyond that.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I've got two semi-successful groups going - a tbone quartet and a brass quintet. The quartet has been going for 11 or 12 years now, but I've had to make sacrifices:
- we started with 4 mediocre players
- we meet every week, but are not rigid about things
- ego has to take a back seat
- I try to focus on having fun, with having a good book as secondary
- make sure people know you have enthusiastic subs lined up
- every time someone dropped out, I leveled up
- I had to step up with the bass bone to make it work, even though I was the strongest tenor player in the group.
- Now I have 3 tenor players who are better than me, and the group is pretty good
The quintet has been different:
- I let the lead trumpet player select the other trumpet player
- sometimes you have to just keep the group moving (we have a hard time with tuba players here)
- scheduling can be a major hurdle, so try to be an enabler rather than an obstacle
- repertoire is always a compromise. Ewald goes in the book, but so do some jazz tunes, and you have to be able to hang with both
- allow everyone to give input, and try not to shoot anyone down hard, make sure everyone gets a win now and then
- getting real gigs can be difficult, but start playing in nursing homes and churches and public parks, and better stuff will come along
Music selection is tough. The quartet has 3 cantankerous old farts who play very well, but don't have a wide range of tolerable music. The quintet has one cantankerous old fart who tries to veto everything that's not a classic quintet piece. I consider it a win that I got him to call one of my arrangements of "Heartbreak Hotel" as a "good arrangement". Not sure what the criteria is for that, but I'll take it. We're playing his favorite "Santa Baby" on our September concert. Everybody has to get something they want out of the group, and as leader, that's honestly the toughest part. Delegating responsibilities can help people build loyalty. Definitely ask for people's opinion on things, even if you don't care. There's a lot of non-musical stuff that goes into leading and building a group.
- we started with 4 mediocre players
- we meet every week, but are not rigid about things
- ego has to take a back seat
- I try to focus on having fun, with having a good book as secondary
- make sure people know you have enthusiastic subs lined up
- every time someone dropped out, I leveled up
- I had to step up with the bass bone to make it work, even though I was the strongest tenor player in the group.
- Now I have 3 tenor players who are better than me, and the group is pretty good
The quintet has been different:
- I let the lead trumpet player select the other trumpet player
- sometimes you have to just keep the group moving (we have a hard time with tuba players here)
- scheduling can be a major hurdle, so try to be an enabler rather than an obstacle
- repertoire is always a compromise. Ewald goes in the book, but so do some jazz tunes, and you have to be able to hang with both
- allow everyone to give input, and try not to shoot anyone down hard, make sure everyone gets a win now and then
- getting real gigs can be difficult, but start playing in nursing homes and churches and public parks, and better stuff will come along
Music selection is tough. The quartet has 3 cantankerous old farts who play very well, but don't have a wide range of tolerable music. The quintet has one cantankerous old fart who tries to veto everything that's not a classic quintet piece. I consider it a win that I got him to call one of my arrangements of "Heartbreak Hotel" as a "good arrangement". Not sure what the criteria is for that, but I'll take it. We're playing his favorite "Santa Baby" on our September concert. Everybody has to get something they want out of the group, and as leader, that's honestly the toughest part. Delegating responsibilities can help people build loyalty. Definitely ask for people's opinion on things, even if you don't care. There's a lot of non-musical stuff that goes into leading and building a group.
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
[quote="MStarke"]Also we are talking what I would call a semi-pro scenario:
Mostly people that do play on a really good level, but do not depend on these projects to be paid.
I live in relatively large and populated area. Trombonists, horn players and even tubists are somewhat okay to find and really easy to motivate for this kind of work. But trumpet players are always a real bottleneck.[/quote]
Well, yeah. Trumpet players are bitches, dude. Bok bok, bitches! :lol:
<YOUTUBE id="b7nlZhM7Wvo"><LINK_TEXT text="https://youtube.com/shorts/b7nlZhM7Wvo? ... 5o40uoRyye">https://youtube.com/shorts/b7nlZhM7Wvo?si=g3-Rc85o40uoRyye</LINK_TEXT></YOUTUBE>
Oh, man, I'm the kind of musician you'd hate. I show up early, play the shit out of the music, enjoy the people I'm playing with, and then go home and don't think about it again until the next rehearsal.
When I run a group, I pay musicians to attend rehearsals. Not a lot. Usually $40, which is enough for gas and to say I respect their time and talent.
In my life, the groups that have required others to "pitch in" and "go beyond" are labors of love for those who don't mind doing that, and usually involve amateurs, like community bands that have members for whom this is their whole musical life. Or garage rock bands. When I play in such groups (including just last night), I'm not one of the ones who "goes beyond." I'm there when I can be, and if you need someone to book the rehearsal hall, drive the van, or whatever, I'm not your trombonist.
I come from a whole different culture and group of players, for whom music is a job, not a hobby (though they all still do things just for fun!). There's a very different ethic among those who can show up to a gig, play most anything put on the stand perfectly the first time through, and exactly the same every time. It's a mindset of capability and incredible efficiency. They don't need to practice the music. They need only to have a run-through to learn the road map and interpret everything exactly the same way. Otherwise, they're on it like white on rice from the very first note. That group doesn't need practicing and "going beyond." They do what they do, and they do it very well. I suppose that sounds awful to you, but I absolutely love it. It's the better than sex.
I probably should have just stayed out of your thread.
Mostly people that do play on a really good level, but do not depend on these projects to be paid.
I live in relatively large and populated area. Trombonists, horn players and even tubists are somewhat okay to find and really easy to motivate for this kind of work. But trumpet players are always a real bottleneck.[/quote]
Well, yeah. Trumpet players are bitches, dude. Bok bok, bitches! :lol:
<YOUTUBE id="b7nlZhM7Wvo"><LINK_TEXT text="https://youtube.com/shorts/b7nlZhM7Wvo? ... 5o40uoRyye">https://youtube.com/shorts/b7nlZhM7Wvo?si=g3-Rc85o40uoRyye</LINK_TEXT></YOUTUBE>
I would really like to hear what ensembles you had good experience with, where people are happy to participate and maybe even go a little beyond that.
Oh, man, I'm the kind of musician you'd hate. I show up early, play the shit out of the music, enjoy the people I'm playing with, and then go home and don't think about it again until the next rehearsal.
When I run a group, I pay musicians to attend rehearsals. Not a lot. Usually $40, which is enough for gas and to say I respect their time and talent.
In my life, the groups that have required others to "pitch in" and "go beyond" are labors of love for those who don't mind doing that, and usually involve amateurs, like community bands that have members for whom this is their whole musical life. Or garage rock bands. When I play in such groups (including just last night), I'm not one of the ones who "goes beyond." I'm there when I can be, and if you need someone to book the rehearsal hall, drive the van, or whatever, I'm not your trombonist.
I come from a whole different culture and group of players, for whom music is a job, not a hobby (though they all still do things just for fun!). There's a very different ethic among those who can show up to a gig, play most anything put on the stand perfectly the first time through, and exactly the same every time. It's a mindset of capability and incredible efficiency. They don't need to practice the music. They need only to have a run-through to learn the road map and interpret everything exactly the same way. Otherwise, they're on it like white on rice from the very first note. That group doesn't need practicing and "going beyond." They do what they do, and they do it very well. I suppose that sounds awful to you, but I absolutely love it. It's the better than sex.
I probably should have just stayed out of your thread.
- mbarbier
- Posts: 367
- Joined: May 17, 2018
there's also non brass groups- i had a quartet for about ten years that was trombone, clarinet, cello, and piano (there's surprisingly a huge repertoire). I found it deeply rewarding and honestly much easier to schedule than brass, at least in part, because of the uniqueness. It wasn't just "another" quintet for everyone and, since no one had experience in it before, really put egos to the side.
also still have a low brass trio (horn, trombone, tuba) that I find really rewarding. Our joke tag line is "brass quintet without the lame parts"...
I've found for both groups, the size makes a huge difference in the sustainability. Once you get over four members, it's just more difficult to schedule and been on the same page in terms of buy in. It's hard with small groups too, but I feel like each new member makes the issues increase exponentially.
also still have a low brass trio (horn, trombone, tuba) that I find really rewarding. Our joke tag line is "brass quintet without the lame parts"...
I've found for both groups, the size makes a huge difference in the sustainability. Once you get over four members, it's just more difficult to schedule and been on the same page in terms of buy in. It's hard with small groups too, but I feel like each new member makes the issues increase exponentially.
- AndrewMeronek
- Posts: 1487
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
You simply have to have a gimmick, and the gimmick I use is to pay them money!
- Duke Ellington
:pant: :pant: :pant:
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
[quote="tbdana"]I probably should have just stayed out of your thread.[/quote]
Yeah, maybe :-D
No, seriously, I respect and appreciate your opinion. But our perspectives and expectations seem to be totally different. My biggest challenge might actually be that on the one hand I want to make music on a really high level, but this is really hard to realize in my strange world in between the amateur and the real pro world. although honestly many pros (have to) play lots of stuff that I would not enjoy at all...
Yeah, maybe :-D
No, seriously, I respect and appreciate your opinion. But our perspectives and expectations seem to be totally different. My biggest challenge might actually be that on the one hand I want to make music on a really high level, but this is really hard to realize in my strange world in between the amateur and the real pro world. although honestly many pros (have to) play lots of stuff that I would not enjoy at all...
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
[quote="mbarbier"]there's also non brass groups- i had a quartet for about ten years that was trombone, clarinet, cello, and piano (there's surprisingly a huge repertoire). I found it deeply rewarding and honestly much easier to schedule than brass, at least in part, because of the uniqueness. It wasn't just "another" quintet for everyone and, since no one had experience in it before, really put egos to the side.
also still have a low brass trio (horn, trombone, tuba) that I find really rewarding. Our joke tag line is "brass quintet without the lame parts"...
I've found for both groups, the size makes a huge difference in the sustainability. Once you get over four members, it's just more difficult to schedule and been on the same page in terms of buy in. It's hard with small groups too, but I feel like each new member makes the issues increase exponentially.[/quote]
Thanks for this! I have actually been thinking about "non-brass" settings as well in the past, but not yet come to a conclusion.
also still have a low brass trio (horn, trombone, tuba) that I find really rewarding. Our joke tag line is "brass quintet without the lame parts"...
I've found for both groups, the size makes a huge difference in the sustainability. Once you get over four members, it's just more difficult to schedule and been on the same page in terms of buy in. It's hard with small groups too, but I feel like each new member makes the issues increase exponentially.[/quote]
Thanks for this! I have actually been thinking about "non-brass" settings as well in the past, but not yet come to a conclusion.
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
Hyperbolica, not quoting because I would have to repeat your whole long post.
Thanks for sharing! This shows the degree of compromise and commitment that you bring into it. which I honestly struggle with when I notice noone else does it...
Thanks for sharing! This shows the degree of compromise and commitment that you bring into it. which I honestly struggle with when I notice noone else does it...
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
I had a great time in an ensemble that was tuba, trombone euphonium and French horn. Arranged most pieces that had trumpet parts on melody down a fourth or so. Smaller is usually better and more fun, but also more tiring.
We also stuck with one theme of music and did not try to play a little of everything. Built our set around high and low points within that set genre.
We also stuck with one theme of music and did not try to play a little of everything. Built our set around high and low points within that set genre.
- BrassSection
- Posts: 424
- Joined: May 11, 2022
Special occasion ensembles for in church.
Small works best for sure especially if you’re depending on former high school players. First one I put together was 4. Band director/tuba buddy, who arranged a really nice low brass O Holy Night. Myself and nephew on euphoniums, daughter on French horn, and tuba buddy on tuba. Excellent arrangement, went well and was well received.
Tried any brass players interested. Former trombone sighed on, but dropped out before first practice. Sisters signed up. Ten years out of school, one trumpet, one trombone. Trombone player borrowed school trombone from band director. Reported Something is wrong with the positions! Band director checked it out, clean bill of health. She dropped out. Trumpet player struggled, but started coming around. Grandson on trumpet and daughter on French horn no,worry. I took trombone and tuba buddy took tuba. Pulled it off. Next one down to 0 trumpet players a week before we were to play. College student home for vacation bailed us out using my trumpet. Haven’t tried for awhile…still have tuba buddy, daughter, grandson, and myself to maybe do a future quartet.
We were warned not to have a 7 member group…somebody piped up “That’s an over-sextet!”
Small works best for sure especially if you’re depending on former high school players. First one I put together was 4. Band director/tuba buddy, who arranged a really nice low brass O Holy Night. Myself and nephew on euphoniums, daughter on French horn, and tuba buddy on tuba. Excellent arrangement, went well and was well received.
Tried any brass players interested. Former trombone sighed on, but dropped out before first practice. Sisters signed up. Ten years out of school, one trumpet, one trombone. Trombone player borrowed school trombone from band director. Reported Something is wrong with the positions! Band director checked it out, clean bill of health. She dropped out. Trumpet player struggled, but started coming around. Grandson on trumpet and daughter on French horn no,worry. I took trombone and tuba buddy took tuba. Pulled it off. Next one down to 0 trumpet players a week before we were to play. College student home for vacation bailed us out using my trumpet. Haven’t tried for awhile…still have tuba buddy, daughter, grandson, and myself to maybe do a future quartet.
We were warned not to have a 7 member group…somebody piped up “That’s an over-sextet!”
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
From the side of the amateurs, I can talk of two ensembles:
We formed a brass quintet from 2 trumpets, 2 trombones, and a tuba from the orchestra. One of the trumpets liked to play inner voices and mostly played 2nd, while the other trumpet had the ego and played mostly 1st. Then our 4th player (trombone) wanted out and we found a horn player and I moved from alto trombone to tenor. Then the tuba player left and we found another. This ensemble was stable for about 10 years. We rehearsed weekly in a church in exchange for playing 2 services a year (not Christmas or Easter, but 4th Sunday in Advent and a spring Musical Service). It had to disband when the 2nd trumpet passed away from pancreatic cancer (and she was the main organizer for the group) and the 1st trumpet moved out of the area for a new job. We had a number of paying gigs, but not enough to call a profession.
Second group was a Dixieland group formed from members of my town band. We started as a quintet and later added a drummer to make a sextet. Instrumentation was clarinet, trumpet, trombone, tuba, banjo, and drums. We had a gig-making hook in that our tuba player's brother-in-law had a wagon pulled by two Belgian horses, He also tricked the wagon out so we could do stunts. We were a hit in local July 4th parades and a Labor Day parade. We also got a few sit-down gigs. We went through 3 reed players, two drummers, and 2 banjo players due to deaths (I was the second youngest member of the group being in my 50s). The group folded when the tuba player, the group's business manager, had to step down. We rehearsed in the drummer's house until he passed away.
I also agree that the smaller the group the easier it is to rehearse. 5 was tough, and 6 was tougher.
We formed a brass quintet from 2 trumpets, 2 trombones, and a tuba from the orchestra. One of the trumpets liked to play inner voices and mostly played 2nd, while the other trumpet had the ego and played mostly 1st. Then our 4th player (trombone) wanted out and we found a horn player and I moved from alto trombone to tenor. Then the tuba player left and we found another. This ensemble was stable for about 10 years. We rehearsed weekly in a church in exchange for playing 2 services a year (not Christmas or Easter, but 4th Sunday in Advent and a spring Musical Service). It had to disband when the 2nd trumpet passed away from pancreatic cancer (and she was the main organizer for the group) and the 1st trumpet moved out of the area for a new job. We had a number of paying gigs, but not enough to call a profession.
Second group was a Dixieland group formed from members of my town band. We started as a quintet and later added a drummer to make a sextet. Instrumentation was clarinet, trumpet, trombone, tuba, banjo, and drums. We had a gig-making hook in that our tuba player's brother-in-law had a wagon pulled by two Belgian horses, He also tricked the wagon out so we could do stunts. We were a hit in local July 4th parades and a Labor Day parade. We also got a few sit-down gigs. We went through 3 reed players, two drummers, and 2 banjo players due to deaths (I was the second youngest member of the group being in my 50s). The group folded when the tuba player, the group's business manager, had to step down. We rehearsed in the drummer's house until he passed away.
I also agree that the smaller the group the easier it is to rehearse. 5 was tough, and 6 was tougher.
- Wilktone
- Posts: 720
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
The ensemble that will work best for you is the one that you (and your fellow musicians) are interested in enough to put in the work. Sure, maybe there's a niche that a particular instrumentation might fill in your area, but longevity is more related to someone's willingness to persevere.
Maybe you establish the group and get it moving yourself first, then ask other musicians to give you a hand with running the ensemble. I led a big band for 18 years on my own, until difficulties with regular personnel (trumpet players, of course) got to me enough that I stepped down. I told the regulars that we would finish off the bookings we had already committed to, but that I was done with the leadership after that point. Five of the regulars stepped up and took on different roles to keep the band running. A couple of years later now, I feel that the band is healthier than it has ever been and it was overall positive for the group for other folks to take an active role in running it.
[quote="tbdana"]Oh, man, I'm the kind of musician you'd hate. I show up early, play the shit out of the music, enjoy the people I'm playing with, and then go home and don't think about it again until the next rehearsal.[/quote]
Sometimes this is not only appropriate, but expected.
But sometimes ensembles have goals that go beyond being just a book and a list of phone numbers. Sometimes musicians want to get into the weeds and work together to sound better and play more often. Nothing wrong with not being into that, as long as you're up front with the rest of the group from the get go.
Some of the most rewarding musical experiences I've had have been with "weekend warriors" and semi-pros who are devoted to sounding good and having a great time. When the group of people I perform with are more than just mere colleagues, but also good friends, it makes it worth my trouble to take on additional duties.
Dave
Maybe you establish the group and get it moving yourself first, then ask other musicians to give you a hand with running the ensemble. I led a big band for 18 years on my own, until difficulties with regular personnel (trumpet players, of course) got to me enough that I stepped down. I told the regulars that we would finish off the bookings we had already committed to, but that I was done with the leadership after that point. Five of the regulars stepped up and took on different roles to keep the band running. A couple of years later now, I feel that the band is healthier than it has ever been and it was overall positive for the group for other folks to take an active role in running it.
[quote="tbdana"]Oh, man, I'm the kind of musician you'd hate. I show up early, play the shit out of the music, enjoy the people I'm playing with, and then go home and don't think about it again until the next rehearsal.[/quote]
Sometimes this is not only appropriate, but expected.
But sometimes ensembles have goals that go beyond being just a book and a list of phone numbers. Sometimes musicians want to get into the weeds and work together to sound better and play more often. Nothing wrong with not being into that, as long as you're up front with the rest of the group from the get go.
Some of the most rewarding musical experiences I've had have been with "weekend warriors" and semi-pros who are devoted to sounding good and having a great time. When the group of people I perform with are more than just mere colleagues, but also good friends, it makes it worth my trouble to take on additional duties.
Dave
- robcat2075
- Posts: 1867
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="MStarke"]What ensembles do you find most rewarding? And which seem to work best?[/quote]
I have most-enjoyed ensembles where i felt we were producing a quality result and where I had confidence in the leader.
Work groups are tricky things. There is no enjoyable task if one doesn't enjoy the people one is working with.
Everyone is a "character" to someone else. The tiresome ones need to reveal to us how above us they are.
I have most-enjoyed ensembles where i felt we were producing a quality result and where I had confidence in the leader.
Work groups are tricky things. There is no enjoyable task if one doesn't enjoy the people one is working with.
Everyone is a "character" to someone else. The tiresome ones need to reveal to us how above us they are.
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="MStarke"]What ensembles do you find most rewarding? And which seem to work best?[/quote]
Rewarding? Instrumentation doesn't matter nearly as much as who's playing and what rep you're playing. If you're playing in an ensemble with no good rep, you gotta write/arrange/commission some. That said, all things being equal, I'd personally rank brass quintet stone dead last...from any part. :idk:
Work best? In terms of ease of recruitment/consistency: rock band, street brass band, trombone quartet.
Rewarding? Instrumentation doesn't matter nearly as much as who's playing and what rep you're playing. If you're playing in an ensemble with no good rep, you gotta write/arrange/commission some. That said, all things being equal, I'd personally rank brass quintet stone dead last...from any part. :idk:
Work best? In terms of ease of recruitment/consistency: rock band, street brass band, trombone quartet.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
The worst part of running a group is scheduling. Bigger groups tend to worry less about working around individual schedule issues. If one person cant make a quintet rehearsal, you cancel. If someone can't make a 20 piece big band, the show goes on. So in some ways, a bigger group may be easier to run.
- TomInME
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Jan 03, 2024
For a larger, volunteer group (I recently started two: a 12-ish bone choir and a 17-ish brass ensemble plus percussion, inaugural concert Sunday!), I think you can't have too many names on your list. Ask everyone on your list, "who else should be on the list?" and your list will probably get a lot bigger - and have people in it who were recommended by other people in it.
And go big: two on a part is way better than having parts not covered, and for a large, unpaid group you can't expect to have everyone at every rehearsal, even the die-hards. Performance dates require a firmer commitment, but you get a higher percentage saying yes to a concert than to every single one of the rehearsals beforehand.
And a performance is essential because nothing motivates like a deadline. If you're only getting together to rehearse, nobody will take it seriously and it's unlikely to keep going. When I started the larger groups, a performance was on the agenda from Day 1.
I started a bone quintet a few years ago (after attending a masterclass with Gabe where he strongly recommended chamber work - possibly the greatest advice ever), and the combination of having a "spare" (we can still rehearse with only 4) and 1 or 2 performances a year has made it a solid, near-weekly hang.
And go big: two on a part is way better than having parts not covered, and for a large, unpaid group you can't expect to have everyone at every rehearsal, even the die-hards. Performance dates require a firmer commitment, but you get a higher percentage saying yes to a concert than to every single one of the rehearsals beforehand.
And a performance is essential because nothing motivates like a deadline. If you're only getting together to rehearse, nobody will take it seriously and it's unlikely to keep going. When I started the larger groups, a performance was on the agenda from Day 1.
I started a bone quintet a few years ago (after attending a masterclass with Gabe where he strongly recommended chamber work - possibly the greatest advice ever), and the combination of having a "spare" (we can still rehearse with only 4) and 1 or 2 performances a year has made it a solid, near-weekly hang.
- JTeagarden
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Feb 24, 2025
It's always the violent intersection of what you aspire to, and what is possible!
I lived in Chicago before moving to Southwest Michigan, and wanted a great big band, so I got Bob Ojeda (years with Kenton, Herman and Basie) to run rehearsals and front us, instant street cred! Got whatever subs we needed, just to hear what Bob had to lay down.
My aspirations right now are so much lower, because there simply isn't the same kind of concentration of good players as in Chicago, in the ensembles I have heard around here, I haven't heard a <I>single </I>trumpet player who could have played in my Chicago band, but instead of cursing the darkness, I am focusing on playing very well in the ensembles I play in, and laying down an example of decent trombone playing.
Personally, I wish I had the time to put together a small group to play something I and everyone else hasn't done 100 times before, <B>that </B>would be rewarding: energetic, some thought put into it, and sounds you haven't heard before.
I lived in Chicago before moving to Southwest Michigan, and wanted a great big band, so I got Bob Ojeda (years with Kenton, Herman and Basie) to run rehearsals and front us, instant street cred! Got whatever subs we needed, just to hear what Bob had to lay down.
My aspirations right now are so much lower, because there simply isn't the same kind of concentration of good players as in Chicago, in the ensembles I have heard around here, I haven't heard a <I>single </I>trumpet player who could have played in my Chicago band, but instead of cursing the darkness, I am focusing on playing very well in the ensembles I play in, and laying down an example of decent trombone playing.
Personally, I wish I had the time to put together a small group to play something I and everyone else hasn't done 100 times before, <B>that </B>would be rewarding: energetic, some thought put into it, and sounds you haven't heard before.