Conn 36H Alto Mouthpiece Choice
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
I did some searches and came up with some options, but wanted to see if anyone knows if there have been any changes to the leadpipe in the 36H, as I know that they used to come with a special Conn 7C. I also see that Doug Elliott makes a special shank specifically for some altos, including the 36H.
Anyway, I'm actually starting to see some real playing with Alto, and the Bach 39 is a bit strident for stuff after Mozart. With that I play a Faxx 7C, which seems to work well. I picked up a demo 36H, and it came with a brand new Bach 7C (still in the box), which looks to be what they ship with now. As far as I can tell, there are no modifications to it that would make the partials line up better. That said, I didn't notice any major partials being out of line playing it with the Faxx 7c or a Ferguson 11C, both of which insert about 1" into the receiver.
Does anyone have any pointers on a mouthpiece for the 36h that might be a better choice? I've also got a Bach 6 3/4C and Schilke 47 in house, but the 11C seems to be working well at present. The only other pointers I need is how to shrink my neck and head so it's a bit more comfortable to play.
Anyway, I'm actually starting to see some real playing with Alto, and the Bach 39 is a bit strident for stuff after Mozart. With that I play a Faxx 7C, which seems to work well. I picked up a demo 36H, and it came with a brand new Bach 7C (still in the box), which looks to be what they ship with now. As far as I can tell, there are no modifications to it that would make the partials line up better. That said, I didn't notice any major partials being out of line playing it with the Faxx 7c or a Ferguson 11C, both of which insert about 1" into the receiver.
Does anyone have any pointers on a mouthpiece for the 36h that might be a better choice? I've also got a Bach 6 3/4C and Schilke 47 in house, but the 11C seems to be working well at present. The only other pointers I need is how to shrink my neck and head so it's a bit more comfortable to play.
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
The receiver is a little different for the 36H and 34H. A standard Bach (or similar) mouthpiece will stick out a bit too much. Sometimes, it's not a big deal, but when I was playing a 34H I found that it responded a bit better, and the pitch (both the tuning slide position and the overtone series) was a bit better with a shank that fits it. Doug's mouthpieces work well, and I know that Greg Black will make a mouthpiece with that taper - he did one for me. The Conn Lindberg mouthpieces might be an option too - they are made for that horn.
Jim Scott
Jim Scott
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
[quote="CalgaryTbone"]The receiver is a little different for the 36H and 34H. A standard Bach (or similar) mouthpiece will stick out a bit too much. Sometimes, it's not a big deal, but when I was playing a 34H I found that it responded a bit better, and the pitch (both the tuning slide position and the overtone series) was a bit better with a shank that fits it. Doug's mouthpieces work well, and I know that Greg Black will make a mouthpiece with that taper - he did one for me. The Conn Lindberg mouthpieces might be an option too - they are made for that horn.
Jim Scott[/quote]
I have thought about the Lindberg pieces before, though their sizing system almost seems counterintuitive, as the alto pieces have, on paper at least, a larger inner rim diameter than any of the large bore tenor pieces. Still, as you said, the alto pieces were designed for that specific horn.
Jim Scott[/quote]
I have thought about the Lindberg pieces before, though their sizing system almost seems counterintuitive, as the alto pieces have, on paper at least, a larger inner rim diameter than any of the large bore tenor pieces. Still, as you said, the alto pieces were designed for that specific horn.
- CheeseTray
- Posts: 115
- Joined: Apr 21, 2018
The Lindbergs also have extremely round rims... I liked the blow but couldn't handle the rim and eventually gave up on it.
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I use a Corp Bach 15C in my 36H. It's the best fit out of the mouthpieces I have, though I'm sure a DE setup would be a big upgrade.
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
I use a large rim (Bach 4 sized) on alto, so take that as an indication of where I'm coming from. It's the same rim as my tenor mouthpiece. I'm playing an Edwards alto for a long time now, so the receiver fit isn't an issue, but I had Ultimate Brass make me one of their A1 mouthpieces w/a 4.1 rim. For me, it's the cup/backbore that really makes the difference and the A1 is a pretty shallow cup and a backbore made for alto. I do have a Lindberg 13CL as a backup, spare piece - it is similar in specs and sounds pretty good. His numbering system is hard to figure out, but I think the 15CL is close to a 7C (but I don't have access to specs now). I only threw out that suggestion because they are made with the newer Conn altos in mind.
The other options are to put a different rim (screw rim) on a cup that works, or have a shank altered of an otherwise comfortable piece (Greg Black did that to one of his mouthpieces that I was using). It's definitely possible to get good results with a "regular fitting" mouthpiece - I played regular Bach mouthpieces in an Elkhart 88H for years - you adjust. The only thing with the altos is that it's the opposite - the mouthpiece sticks out a bit too far, and that can make the horn flat. If that's not an issue, and you like what you have, then stick with it.
Jim Scott
The other options are to put a different rim (screw rim) on a cup that works, or have a shank altered of an otherwise comfortable piece (Greg Black did that to one of his mouthpieces that I was using). It's definitely possible to get good results with a "regular fitting" mouthpiece - I played regular Bach mouthpieces in an Elkhart 88H for years - you adjust. The only thing with the altos is that it's the opposite - the mouthpiece sticks out a bit too far, and that can make the horn flat. If that's not an issue, and you like what you have, then stick with it.
Jim Scott
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I got the special Conn 7C with my 36H but I don't do well with that rim size. I have an older Bach 4C (post Mount Vernon) that I like. I just learned to cope with the intonation challenges.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
My general recommendation is to use the same rim size you use on tenor. Alto range is not any higher than tenor range. Depending on.the sound you want, you can use a typical small tenor cup depth, or shallower for a lighter & brighter "alto" sound. You can do that easily with my stuff. I make larger rim sizes (up to 104) in the smaller series (ST and MT) for more help with getting a compact sound, and specific "alto" shanks to balance the feel and intonation better than on small tenor mouthpieces.
Most altos play better and more in tune with a shank that goes in a little farther than on a small tenor.
Most altos play better and more in tune with a shank that goes in a little farther than on a small tenor.
- stewbones43
- Posts: 333
- Joined: Oct 25, 2018
My go-to set up for my 36H is a Doug Elliott ST95CAltoS but I sometimes use a Schilke 40! I am lucky enough to be able to use a wide range of rim sizes. On bass, I use a Doug Elliott LB114E8 for Big Band and a Doug Yeo Signature for symphonic stuff.
Any mouthpiece that starts with a Doug!
Cheers
Stewbones43
Any mouthpiece that starts with a Doug!
Cheers
Stewbones43
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
[quote="stewbones43"]My go-to set up for my 36H is a Doug Elliott ST95CAltoS but I sometimes use a Schilke 40! I am lucky enough to be able to use a wide range of rim sizes. On bass, I use a Doug Elliott LB114E8 for Big Band and a Doug Yeo Signature for symphonic stuff.
Any mouthpiece that starts with a Doug!
Cheers
Stewbones43[/quote] I use different sizes for Bass and tenor, with tenor at pretty much 25.9mm / 1.02" rims. For bass I tend to use around 28.5mm / 1.125". For alto, I'm on the fence over whether it works better for me with a smaller rim than Tenor, or the same. As I'm playing it more now, I'll be finding out.
Any mouthpiece that starts with a Doug!
Cheers
Stewbones43[/quote] I use different sizes for Bass and tenor, with tenor at pretty much 25.9mm / 1.02" rims. For bass I tend to use around 28.5mm / 1.125". For alto, I'm on the fence over whether it works better for me with a smaller rim than Tenor, or the same. As I'm playing it more now, I'll be finding out.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
I should have my alto mouthpiece designs available for sale by the end of September. They are designed using my 36H as the test instrument, but have worked equally well on Rath and Shires altos. They go into the receiver further than is normal for small shank mouthpieces. The backbore and shank designs all play *in tune* on alto, with the high C# partial needing to be pulled in similarly to the high Ab partial on tenor (ie, pull your G in in 2nd on tenor -- that same partial on alto).
There will be three basic designs:
Classical/solo (A1), what you would expect an alto to sound like. For classical works, Wagenseil concerto, etc.
Modern (A2), for playing with modern sections, romantic works, more projection needed, etc. This is my preferred model
and a third style that bridges the gap between alto and tenor sounds (A3). For stealing works written for other instruments, where the alto sound is less critical, but the technical advantages of the alto and ease of playing difficult arrangements are more important.
Each will be available in 3 rim shapes (regular, narrow, and rounded) and in sizes 1.00, 1.01, 1.02, 1.03, 1.04, 1.05, and 1.06 in inches.
Something like 63 unique designs just for alto.
More to follow on these soon!
There will be three basic designs:
Classical/solo (A1), what you would expect an alto to sound like. For classical works, Wagenseil concerto, etc.
Modern (A2), for playing with modern sections, romantic works, more projection needed, etc. This is my preferred model
and a third style that bridges the gap between alto and tenor sounds (A3). For stealing works written for other instruments, where the alto sound is less critical, but the technical advantages of the alto and ease of playing difficult arrangements are more important.
Each will be available in 3 rim shapes (regular, narrow, and rounded) and in sizes 1.00, 1.01, 1.02, 1.03, 1.04, 1.05, and 1.06 in inches.
Something like 63 unique designs just for alto.
More to follow on these soon!
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
[quote="CheeseTray"]The Lindbergs also have extremely round rims... I liked the blow but couldn't handle the rim and eventually gave up on it.[/quote] I also keep looking at them, but then I look at that rim. I don't think i'd like it. I also looked at the Friedman Alto mouthpieces, as they are in my preferred rim size, but there isn't much out there on them.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Sneak peek at the blank for my alto mouthpiece design!
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- Chronos91
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Jul 10, 2022
[quote="harrisonreed"]Sneak peek at the blank for my alto mouthpiece design!
b4077bfe-cf0f-4c5b-b728-e883f3216eec.jpg
20250829_124638.jpg[/quote]
Do you already have a website that you'll be listing them on?
b4077bfe-cf0f-4c5b-b728-e883f3216eec.jpg
20250829_124638.jpg[/quote]
Do you already have a website that you'll be listing them on?
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="Chronos91"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="284718" time="1756830928" user_id="3642">
Sneak peek at the blank for my alto mouthpiece design!
b4077bfe-cf0f-4c5b-b728-e883f3216eec.jpg
20250829_124638.jpg[/quote]
Do you already have a website that you'll be listing them on?
</QUOTE>
Not yet. But that will be coming, along with recordings, videos, and pictures!
Sneak peek at the blank for my alto mouthpiece design!
b4077bfe-cf0f-4c5b-b728-e883f3216eec.jpg
20250829_124638.jpg[/quote]
Do you already have a website that you'll be listing them on?
</QUOTE>
Not yet. But that will be coming, along with recordings, videos, and pictures!
- CheeseTray
- Posts: 115
- Joined: Apr 21, 2018
[quote="tbonesullivan"]<QUOTE author="CheeseTray" post_id="284221" time="1756145347" user_id="3109">
The Lindbergs also have extremely round rims... I liked the blow but couldn't handle the rim and eventually gave up on it.[/quote] I also keep looking at them, but then I look at that rim. I don't think i'd like it. I also looked at the Friedman Alto mouthpieces, as they are in my preferred rim size, but there isn't much out there on them.
</QUOTE>
I actually liked the sound I got out of it (a 15CL) and my alto (an 80s Yamaha) responded well, played in tune, etc.. But after ten minutes of playing, the rim felt horrible; like I was using too much pressure when I wasn't.
The Lindbergs also have extremely round rims... I liked the blow but couldn't handle the rim and eventually gave up on it.[/quote] I also keep looking at them, but then I look at that rim. I don't think i'd like it. I also looked at the Friedman Alto mouthpieces, as they are in my preferred rim size, but there isn't much out there on them.
</QUOTE>
I actually liked the sound I got out of it (a 15CL) and my alto (an 80s Yamaha) responded well, played in tune, etc.. But after ten minutes of playing, the rim felt horrible; like I was using too much pressure when I wasn't.
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
[quote="CheeseTray"]I actually liked the sound I got out of it (a 15CL) and my alto (an 80s Yamaha) responded well, played in tune, etc.. But after ten minutes of playing, the rim felt horrible; like I was using too much pressure when I wasn't.[/quote] When I had braces, I played a 5GB mouthpiece with a very rounded rim. It definitely helped when I had braces, but once they were gone, I couldn't stand it. Just too rounded, which ends up concentrating pressure on a somewhat narrow area when you try to get a good seal.
- heinzgries
- Posts: 250
- Joined: Apr 24, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]Sneak peek at the blank for my alto mouthpiece design!
[/quote]
really nice work. Please tell me when it is available.
[/quote]
really nice work. Please tell me when it is available.