Asymmetric Tonguing
- JTeagarden
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Feb 24, 2025
Having taken a couple lessons from Doug E, I am sensitized to embouchures not necessarily being perfectly symmetric on either the vertical or horizontal axes.
Is the same true for tongue placement along the horizontal axis? I have always placed my tongue dead square in the middle of my mouth horizontally (regardless of where my embouchure itself might be on the mouthpiece), mostly from habit, and slightly because it strikes me as the optimal placement, but was noodling around today, and it seems that slightly right of center works a little better, and that there's a kind of "pivot" to the most responsive horizontal placement, in that the tends more to the middle the higher I play, and towards the right as I descend.
The shift is not huge, but as we all know, it feesl that way in our imaginations.
Any others have this experience?
Is the same true for tongue placement along the horizontal axis? I have always placed my tongue dead square in the middle of my mouth horizontally (regardless of where my embouchure itself might be on the mouthpiece), mostly from habit, and slightly because it strikes me as the optimal placement, but was noodling around today, and it seems that slightly right of center works a little better, and that there's a kind of "pivot" to the most responsive horizontal placement, in that the tends more to the middle the higher I play, and towards the right as I descend.
The shift is not huge, but as we all know, it feesl that way in our imaginations.
Any others have this experience?
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Yes, that was one of Reinhardt's standard tests with students, to see where articulation worked best - center or a little right or left.
I tend to forget about that, but it can really help to do a little experimenting.
I tend to forget about that, but it can really help to do a little experimenting.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
I don't see why it should absoutely be symmetrical, for the same reason mouthpiece placement also isn't: the striking surfaces of our tonguing, i.e. our teeth, alveola and palate, are never completely symmetrical. Nor is our tongue itself, for that matter.
My teeth have a sharper curve left of center, and a flatter curve to the right. My alveola is thicker on the right too. As a result I find that I tongue ever so slightly to the left of my dentition's center, as I otherwise wouldn't get a proper seal.
My teeth have a sharper curve left of center, and a flatter curve to the right. My alveola is thicker on the right too. As a result I find that I tongue ever so slightly to the left of my dentition's center, as I otherwise wouldn't get a proper seal.
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
We're all built differently. Whatever works for you is the correct way for you to do it.
- Richard3rd
- Posts: 77
- Joined: Dec 12, 2020
These discussions always get me thinking. When you whistle, it is centered? What causes an off center embouchure set up? Is it the teeth? Is it something else? Can it be corrected?
- JTeagarden
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Feb 24, 2025
Asymmetric tonguing is much cleaner for me, changing by range as described, I am very glad I experimented, and happy Doug could confirm it’s “a thing.”
- JTeagarden
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Feb 24, 2025
I highly suggest you try it out, it's produced a marked improvement in response, clarity, and endurance, and it was <I>immediate</I>!
- Wilktone
- Posts: 720
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
I don't remember exactly where I saw this, but I have a recollection that Reinhardt wrote somewhere if the mouthpiece placement is off to one side that it can be helpful to tongue off to the opposite side.
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
[quote="Wilktone"]I don't remember exactly where I saw this, but I have a recollection that Reinhardt wrote somewhere if the mouthpiece placement is off to one side that it can be helpful to tongue off to the opposite side.[/quote]
I suspect that certain dentition features that encourage mouthpiece placement on a certain side might also tend to encourage or require tonguing somewhat to the opposite side.
I suspect that certain dentition features that encourage mouthpiece placement on a certain side might also tend to encourage or require tonguing somewhat to the opposite side.