I believe almost everyone here has some experience with Yamaha’s Xeno family. Some like them, some hate them, some don‘t care. But Yamaha also has another “side” of large bore horns that they don’t (normally) export, the Japanese Domestic Market (JDM) horns, and I think they are much more interesting than most of the exported Xenos. Here are some of my thoughts.

YSL-820GII

The “old-school” Yamaha Custom (800-series) trombone, with a lineage that can be traced to the YSL-842 of the 80s. It has 8.5” gold brass bell with unsoldered rim, brass slide with faux oversleeve, nickel silver load-bearing parts (receiver, braces, oiter tuning slides, ferrules, etc.), and yellow brass tuning slide.

In my opinion, this horn is the most true to Yamaha’s original spirit: easy to play, light, with a wide sound that has a good halo to it. The projection is, as expected, worse than the Xeno family, but the sound is more lush and pleasing at least up close. To my surprise, my former band teacher, who has an extremely good ears and is normally a Bach fan, prefers this horn over Bach 42BOF that he even helped hand-pick for the band. The price is attractive also, at around 78% of the 882II which is currently the cheapest Xeno. A good horn for all-around playing for sure.

YSL-823GD

Nakagawa Eijirou’s signature large bore model. It follows his principle of all-brass horn and “lightering”: lightweight slide, thinner trim ring, among other lightering. The cut bell GD version has phosphor bronze valve cap instead of normal (I think aluminium) cap. The bell is 8.5” gold brass.

From my perception, the horn sound dry and “smoky”. It might be because I use a large mouthpiece when I tried it. Amaller mouthpiece should help bring additional brilliance to it, but that would exacerbate the dryness problem. The horn might be good for jazz and solo (the field which Nakagawa-san shines) but I would not use it in an orchestra or wind band.

YSL-825/825G

The newest model in Yamaha’s lineup, not counting variants of the existing models. The horn is developed with Kuwata Kou, the principal trombone of Yomiuri Nippon Orchestra. The most striking aspect of the horn is the weird valve wrap, designed to “make the air flow in the same direction for both F and main tube”. I don’t know how much that makes a difference, but it is the main selling point Yamaha pitches for this horn. In an interview between Yamaha’s horn designer and Kuwata-san, the latter mentioned that he used YSL-882V before, and the valve side has the aforementioned flow direction, so he wants the 825 to have that.

Other parts of the horn are unique as well. The slide is gold brass with yellow brass crook and narrow slide brace. The tuning slide is gold brass for both main and F side on the yellow-bell variant, but yellow brass on the gold-bell variant. The bell is 8.67” Xeno type, but I am not sure it is soldered or not, but it seems soldered. No cut bell option offered as of now.

I am indifferent with all Xeno tenors I have tried and owned (one 882UII JDM Xeno, one 882G, one 882O, and one 882OR). The OR I tried was too hollow, while the other models are compact and middle-of-the-road. I am starting to understand why some say “Yamaha is boring”. There is not much halo and lushness, just core. The 825, however, eliminates that problem. It strikes a balance between the wide sound of the 820GII and the core-heavy sound of the other Xenos. I can say if I am going to buy a tenor, this will be it. The valve, however, is not that free-blowing, owing to the weird valve wrap. But my friend said that valved notes sounds like open notes, so Yamaha does succeed on that point.

However, I only like the yellow brass variant YSL-825. The 825G gold brass variant does not impress me like its sibling.

It seems like Yamaha still has no plan to market the 825 in international market even though it is Xeno-branded, which is a pity. Yamaha Thailand managed to import a 825 and a 825G, and the 825 is sold relatively fast. In the market where not so many people can afford new horn, and most of those that can afford prefer Bach, Shires, Edwards, and some even Kühnl & Hoyer and Thein, a Yamaha horn with such a steep price tag (836,000 JPY VS 874,000 JPY of my YBL-835D bass) to be sold so fast can be considered a great success, and I believe it would sell well in other markets as well.

Here ends my brief review of the JDM large bore horns. Please share your thoughts especially if you have experience on these horns or JDM horn in general!

Thanks so much for all of this insight!!! I really want to try all of these horns.

I am especially curious about the 823GD as I don’t play in an orchestra much and I love the sound of the 895EN. However, that horn (after two trial periods) had too tight of a blow and felt a touch nose heavy. Maybe the valve and a tight large bore blow would feel more like a balanced medium despite the .547 size? How would you describe the blow? Dry and Smoky are cool with me I can very much work with that.

The 825 has a sterling silver leadpipe as well, correct? Seems to be very Alessi Model based.

In the US, I am going to spend some time with the 882OD and GOR end of this month. I played the 882GOR last December and I thought it sounded exactly like a Stephens Trombone I trialed…def not boring.

I have 823G. (Not GD). It is indeed very lightweight and easy blowing, and have a more "BBAM" sound rather than "BUUH" sound,, if that makes sense..? More "ah" sound rather than "uhh" sound. I think it is very similar to 88H thin bell version. Very nimble and more electric brilliance(if that makes sense) at high dynamics, but not necessarily have thick body of sound that helps projection.

I also have 882, and definetely 882 has more body to the sound and volume limit is higher than 823.

But I think I like the 823 a lot for light orchestral repertoire or for first parts of orchestra. I think I can use it well in orchestras except heavy repertoire like Shostakovich,Mahler, Wagner, etc..

I even have the leadpipe pulled out and using some nickel silver or sterling silver aftermarket leadpipe. It helps a little more heaviness and more projection to the sound. But I think a little bit of the characteristic sound(a little blooming after the "BBAM") is lost during the process(I can't describe well with words,,)

<YOUTUBE id="gjHKorXwbYE">https://youtu.be/gjHKorXwbYE?si=4EtY5SvxCgl42y6q</YOUTUBE>

<YOUTUBE id="OJd0sBtvRuc">https://youtu.be/OJd0sBtvRuc?si=nIbtvPQVCjNWPkiK</YOUTUBE>

These two videos may be helpful.

I can mostly agree with what he says with 823G and 882(although he is saying with 882V).

He also describes 823G sound as "BBAM".

<YOUTUBE id="9FcJT8wHj70">https://youtu.be/9FcJT8wHj70?si=D6Qs06ZdquIMXePm</YOUTUBE>

823G sound.

<YOUTUBE id="UFC5_ghKDKk">https://youtu.be/UFC5_ghKDKk?si=5rxj4bgazT_5h4KG</YOUTUBE>

882V sound.

GD(cut-bell version) may be different. Maybe GD version have a little more slotting and projection.

[quote="RJMason"]Thanks so much for all of this insight!!! I really want to try all of these horns.

I am especially curious about the 823GD as I don’t play in an orchestra much and I love the sound of the 895EN. However, that horn (after two trial periods) had too tight of a blow and felt a touch nose heavy. Maybe the valve and a tight large bore blow would feel more like a balanced medium despite the .547 size? How would you describe the blow? Dry and Smoky are cool with me I can very much work with that.

The 825 has a sterling silver leadpipe as well, correct? Seems to be very Alessi Model based.

In the US, I am going to spend some time with the 882OD and GOR end of this month. I played the 882GOR last December and I thought it sounded exactly like a Stephens Trombone I trialed…def not boring.[/quote]

I tried the 823GD back in January so I don't remember the blow clearly, but if I remember correctly it is a bit tighter than the 825 on open horn, but the 825 is tighter on valve.

The 825 indeed has sterling silver leadpipe. I am not sure about the influence, but maybe it played some part.

[quote="Doldom"]I have 823G. (Not GD). It is indeed very lightweight and easy blowing, and have a more "BBAM" sound rather than "BUUH" sound,, if that makes sense..? More "ah" sound rather than "uhh" sound. I think it is very similar to 88H thin bell version. Very nimble and more electric brilliance(if that makes sense) at high dynamics, but not necessarily have thick body of sound that helps projection.

I also have 882, and definetely 882 has more body to the sound and volume limit is higher than 823.

But I think I like the 823 a lot for light orchestral repertoire or for first parts of orchestra. I think I can use it well in orchestras except heavy repertoire like Shostakovich,Mahler, Wagner, etc..

I even have the leadpipe pulled out and using some nickel silver or sterling silver aftermarket leadpipe. It helps a little more heaviness and more projection to the sound. But I think a little bit of the characteristic sound(a little blooming after the "BBAM") is lost during the process(I can't describe well with words,,)

<YOUTUBE id="gjHKorXwbYE">https://youtu.be/gjHKorXwbYE?si=4EtY5SvxCgl42y6q</YOUTUBE>

<YOUTUBE id="OJd0sBtvRuc">https://youtu.be/OJd0sBtvRuc?si=nIbtvPQVCjNWPkiK</YOUTUBE>

These two videos may be helpful.

I can mostly agree with what he says with 823G and 882(although he is saying with 882V).

He also describes 823G sound as "BBAM".

<YOUTUBE id="9FcJT8wHj70">https://youtu.be/9FcJT8wHj70?si=D6Qs06ZdquIMXePm</YOUTUBE>

823G sound.

<YOUTUBE id="UFC5_ghKDKk">https://youtu.be/UFC5_ghKDKk?si=5rxj4bgazT_5h4KG</YOUTUBE>

882V sound.

GD(cut-bell version) may be different. Maybe GD version have a little more slotting and projection.[/quote]

Thank you for the very interesting videos! It also helps rfresh my Japanese :lol:

I have always wanted to try the 882V, but it is rare even in Japan, and since it is only available second-hand now I might never have a chance to try it at all...

I have not had a chance to try 823G vs 823GD, but I have tried all the versions of the 835 bass (835/D/G/GD) almost back-to-back. The D versions has more resistance and indeed firmer slot than the respective non-cut versions. Some halo in the sound is lost, but compensated with a more aggressive core, which I prefer.

I loved the 882GOR when I last tried it. It was a close runner-up to the Stephens Horn I ended up with, on par with the Thein Universal 1 I played and miles ahead of anything else at ITF for me. the 882V that I was playing on then was still a little ahead of the GOR to me, and was a fantastic horn, just didn't end up feeling like "home" compared to the Stephens.

[quote="WilliamLang"]I loved the 882GOR when I last tried it. It was a close runner-up to the Stephens Horn I ended up with, on par with the Thein Universal 1[/quote]

That's quite a statement for "large scale" production trombone. Now I need to try one!

I've played an OR that was one of the worst large tenors I can remember. So they have a fair amount of variance

Fwiw I could've stand the OR model. The gold bell G option was a huge difference for me personally.

Tried the Yamaha Xeno 882OD and 882GOR yesterday and honestly they were some of the best modern trombones I’ve ever played. Huge dimensional sound and insanely well built. The GOR felt like it could win an audition in a concert hall all on its own. The OD reminded me of a great old Bach 42BO just more accurate and in tune. It would be an amazing all around trombone for someone focusing on large bore concept.

I know these horns get called dull & boring online, but I couldn’t disagree more. If anything they had way more personality than a lot of other premium options out there I have play tested on my travels. The fact that more orchestral pros *aren’t* playing them kind of makes me wonder about some folx’ ears! <EMOJI seq="1fae2" tseq="1fae2">🫢</EMOJI>

[quote="RJMason"]

I know these horns get called dull & boring online, but I couldn’t disagree more. If anything they had way more personality than a lot of other premium options out there I have play tested on my travels. The fact that more orchestral pros *aren’t* playing them kind of makes me wonder about some folx’ ears! <EMOJI seq="1fae2" tseq="1fae2">🫢</EMOJI>[/quote]

This is my $0.02 as someone who's played a 882OR for about a decade now as my main axe. People who say that the regular Xenos are dull and boring are generally correct, because they are the ones sitting right behind the bell. Out in front they're every bit as big and interesting as the best Bach or Edwards or whatever you like, but behind the bell they just don't give you a lot to go off of.

The Xenos have a tremendous sound, the trouble is that 99% of that sound is going forward, so the player doesn't get a ton of feedback.

Maybe that isn't as much of an issue with the cut bell or gold bell options, I haven't tried any so I couldn't say.

[quote="RJMason"]Tried the Yamaha Xeno 882OD and 882GOR yesterday and honestly they were some of the best modern trombones I’ve ever played. Huge dimensional sound and insanely well built. The GOR felt like it could win an audition in a concert hall all on its own. The OD reminded me of a great old Bach 42BO just more accurate and in tune. It would be an amazing all around trombone for someone focusing on large bore concept.

I know these horns get called dull & boring online, but I couldn’t disagree more. If anything they had way more personality than a lot of other premium options out there I have play tested on my travels. The fact that more orchestral pros *aren’t* playing them kind of makes me wonder about some folx’ ears! <EMOJI seq="1fae2" tseq="1fae2">🫢</EMOJI>[/quote]

Were you able to compare it to their YSL-823GD?

Didn’t get to try the 823GD but I am working on the possibility of getting one on the west coast to trial! I’ve been told it is .547 895EN with a gold bell and detachable bell. Aka probably an incredible butter horn!!!!

TBH I think the 882OD and GOR are more than enough for the US Market but I think funky players with a larger sound concept would prob flock to the 823GD

The cut bell definitely helps re: feedback, on all Yammies