What is a chocolate

Davidus1 · by **Davidus1** » 2019-03-08 2:16 p.m.

Hi,

I've heard of horns referred to as being "a chocolate" or "chocolate". Specifically I saw DJ post this about a Bach 36. Would like to know specifically what this refers to: playing characteristics?, sound?, finish? Or is this simply referring to an excellent example of a specific horn?

whitbey · by **whitbey** » 2019-03-08 3:30 p.m.

I am thinking Rocky Road.

But in this context, it is a phrase from the special DJ lexicon library.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2019-03-08 3:42 p.m.

Oh, grasshopper, you must be patient. Someday you will begin to understand DJese. :clever:

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2019-03-09 1:43 a.m.

Like this:

<YOUTUBE id="EwTZ2xpQwpA">https://youtu.be/EwTZ2xpQwpA</YOUTUBE>

You put the sheet up for the Grondahl, but only that song comes out the bell no matter what you do.

paulyg · by **paulyg** » 2019-03-09 2:44 a.m.

It's a horn that offers the player a selfish enjoyment.

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2019-03-09 5:00 a.m.

"a chocolate" would probably be a treat or sweet to play. Just "chocolate" might be a horn that sounds dark and creamy. In any case, chocolate is always a good thing, right?

It might be best to not try to interpret DJ too literally. It's all some poetic slang.

baileyman · by **baileyman** » 2019-03-09 8:36 a.m.

Patina. Sound.

greenbean · by **greenbean** » 2019-03-09 10:09 a.m.

Well, I know that my MV Bach 36 sounded great. It had deep cocoa notes with cherry undertones and a hint of toasted nuts...

greenbean · by **greenbean** » 2019-03-09 10:11 a.m.

Or perhaps DJ was making a reference to the great trumpeter Chocolate Armenteros!

Kingfan · 2019-03-09 10:16 a.m.

[quote="greenbean"]Well, I know that my MV Bach 36 sounded great. It had deep cocoa notes with cherry undertones and a hint of toasted nuts...[/quote]

Nice one! Hey, I just thought of something - maybe the nut is behind the mouthpiece. :biggrin:

ngrinder · by **ngrinder** » 2019-03-09 10:17 a.m.

Bach horns of a certain vintage have a lacquer that patinas to a rich dark brown. Their playing characteristics usually reflect their visuals. My first horn was a chocolate 36.

Davidus1 · by **Davidus1** » 2019-03-09 12:01 p.m.

[quote="harrisonreed"]Like this:

<YOUTUBE id="EwTZ2xpQwpA">https://youtu.be/EwTZ2xpQwpA</YOUTUBE>

You put the sheet up for the Grondahl, but only that song comes out the bell no matter what you do.[/quote]

Not helpful at all

Davidus1 · by **Davidus1** » 2019-03-09 12:02 p.m.

[quote="ngrinder"]Bach horns of a certain vintage have a lacquer that patinas to a rich dark brown. Their playing characteristics usually reflect their visuals. My first horn was a chocolate 36.[/quote]

Thank you!

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2019-03-09 12:16 p.m.

[quote="Davidus1"]Not helpful at all[/quote]

neither is calling an instrument a chocolate, really

:shuffle:

Davidus1 · by **Davidus1** » 2019-03-09 12:36 p.m.

[quote="harrisonreed"]<QUOTE author="Davidus1" post_id="80163" time="1552150899" user_id="3116">
Not helpful at all[/quote]

neither is calling an instrument a chocolate, really

:shuffle:
</QUOTE>

I didn't create the term. Just move on if you aren't trying to help.

jthomas105 · by **jthomas105** » 2019-03-09 2:00 p.m.

if you can't have a little fun, you're not really cut out to be a trombone player. Learn to play oboe if you're going to be so uptight

lighten up Francis

ngrinder · by **ngrinder** » 2019-03-09 3:11 p.m.

It’s definitely a DJ-ism, but it sort of makes sense!

Davidus1 · by **Davidus1** » 2019-03-09 3:24 p.m.

[quote="ngrinder"]It’s definitely a DJ-ism, but it sort of makes sense![/quote]

Thanks! Definitely a DJ term like you said. Was curious if it was referring to overall quality or perhaps the patina as you mentioned. Thanks for the info!

Kbiggs · by **Kbiggs** » 2019-03-09 4:27 p.m.

I was asked once to describe my ideal bass trombone tone quality. “A river of chocoloate” is the first phrase that came to mind. Of course, I can’t speak to anything that come out of DJ’s head...

Davidus1 · by **Davidus1** » 2019-03-09 5:33 p.m.

[quote="hyperbolica"]"a chocolate" would probably be a treat or sweet to play. Just "chocolate" might be a horn that sounds dark and creamy. In any case, chocolate is always a good thing, right?

It might be best to not try to interpret DJ too literally. It's all some poetic slang.[/quote]

Sounds like good advice! :biggrin:

Doubler · by **Doubler** » 2019-03-09 9:12 p.m.

Since we're speculating, how about this?

<LINK_TEXT text="https://i0.wp.com/chocolatevault.com/wp ... C650&ssl=1">https://i0.wp.com/chocolatevault.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/slide-trombone.jpg?fit=500%2C650&ssl=1</LINK_TEXT>

... or this?

<YOUTUBE id="qRGUfuXo9O4">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRGUfuXo9O4</YOUTUBE>

PhilE · by **PhilE** » 2019-03-10 12:52 a.m.

I remember reading one or two of DJ's posts referring to chocolate 36s and it made sense to me straight away.

I played 2nd bone in a brass band 25 years or so ago and the young lady on first was playing a 36. On one occasion she played a solo piece accompanied by the band and the beauty of her sound has stayed with me since. The piece finished on a high Bb which sounded effortless.

I would easily describe her sound as chocolatey - thick, warm, sweet with just the right amount of edge.

I've been striving for a sound like that ever since.

Davidus1 · by **Davidus1** » 2019-03-10 1:34 p.m.

[quote="PhilE"]I remember reading one or two of DJ's posts referring to chocolate 36s and it made sense to me straight away.

I played 2nd bone in a brass band 25 years or so ago and the young lady on first was playing a 36. On one occasion she played a solo piece accompanied by the band and the beauty of her sound has stayed with me since. The piece finished on a high Bb which sounded effortless.

I would easily describe her sound as chocolatey - thick, warm, sweet with just the right amount of edge.

I've been striving for a sound like that ever since.[/quote]

Thanks for sharing Phil!

Davidus1 · by **Davidus1** » 2019-03-10 1:36 p.m.

[quote="Doubler"]Since we're speculating, how about this?

<LINK_TEXT text="https://i0.wp.com/chocolatevault.com/wp ... C650&ssl=1">https://i0.wp.com/chocolatevault.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/slide-trombone.jpg?fit=500%2C650&ssl=1</LINK_TEXT>

... or this?

<YOUTUBE id="qRGUfuXo9O4">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRGUfuXo9O4</YOUTUBE>[/quote]

Nice!

Davidus1 · by **Davidus1** » 2019-03-10 1:37 p.m.

[quote="Kbiggs"]I was asked once to describe my ideal bass trombone tone quality. “A river of chocoloate” is the first phrase that came to mind. Of course, I can’t speak to anything that come out of DJ’s head...[/quote]

Thanks for the reply! "a river of chocolate" is a nice mental image. :good:

ExZacLee · by **ExZacLee** » 2019-03-10 2:23 p.m.

[quote="ngrinder"]Bach horns of a certain vintage have a lacquer that patinas to a rich dark brown. Their playing characteristics usually reflect their visuals. My first horn was a chocolate 36.[/quote]

right on Nick.

Chocalate belled 36s, in DJs lexicon, refer to a phenomenon found with some vintage Bachs - a patina forms under the lacquer resulting in a rich dark, deep brown color resembling chocolate. Most players of these horns have also noted that they tend to play more towards the darker end of the spectrum, resulting in a tone that mirrors the color. I've seen some older King 2Bs from the 40s (I'm thinking late 302/early 40s) demonstrate this as well - although most 2Bs tend to play pretty dark for a horn that size so I don't know if you'd notice the huge difference in sound on a 2B as is obvious on Bachs like this. It's pretty noticeable when you compare one back to back with a horn from the same era without the same patina.

One of the most interesting horns I played at DJ's (this was a few years ago on my way to a gig at the Chicago blues fest) was a Bach 6 with a really extreme example of this phenomenon. It was a dark, deep green - like, nightmarishly blackish swamp green (but in a good way if that makes sense). Bell was a different mandrel (a III or IV maybe?) than the normal garden variety 6 and the slide felt heavy and thick compared to most 6s I've played. Slide was great though, and the sound could only be described as "Thiccccccc" - I think it may have been a closet horn given its amazing condition. When I asked DJ about selling it he replied "It ain't for sale, man."

davebb · by **davebb** » 2019-03-10 2:58 p.m.

I'm pretty sure one of DJ's TTF posts referred to the chocolate 36 bells having been manufactured in the late 70s to early 80s.

RJMason · by **RJMason** » 2019-03-10 9:50 p.m.

I have a “chocolate” 36 made in early 80s. Looked gnarly ( patina under lacquer also flaking a bit) when I bought it, looks worse now it’s been so used. But it is my old faithful horn. After trying and owning a few pre Elkhart 36s (and prototype model 30, 34s) I think the Corp. horns and a bit later really nailed the 36 formula and sound as DJ and others have described. It is my most played, everything horn with THAT sound. My desert island trombone!

greenbean · by **greenbean** » 2019-03-11 11:47 p.m.

[quote="Kingfan"]

Nice one! Hey, I just thought of something - maybe the nut is behind the mouthpiece. :biggrin:[/quote]

Now, that is a good one! And it might be true!

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What is a chocolate