False tones come up again and again, especially to cover the full range with a single valve bass trombone.

Now I have a wonderful 70h which I love playing, but would want to become more proficient with false tones, especially low B and low C in order to use it more "in the wild". Specifically I want them to be more reliable, focused and sounding as equal as possible to regular valve notes.

So how do you practice this?

I am interested in specific exercises, but even more in the actual technique.

Is there something you adapt actively in your embouchure?

[quote="MStarke"]Is there something you adapt actively in your embouchure?[/quote]

Interesting question. Obviously yes, the embouchure changes the pitch, but I can't say there's a conscious manipulation of my lips to do it. I think they probably pucker a bit more into the mouthpiece, but it pretty much happens on its own.

Sam Burtis used to say that he thought there was a weak partial a major third below the 2nd partial, and I think he was right. To develop the false tones of low C and B, I'd say start on the open horn, b :line2: in first position, and simply stay in first and bend the pitch down to b :line1: , then :space1: to :space0:, # :line1: to :line0: , etc.

Resist the temptation to bend the pitch by backing way off on the volume - keep the sound full at a healthy but unforced mf all the way through the bend.

Work your way into the valve register: :space0: in 1st to 8Vb b :line3: , :line0: to 8Vb :space2: , 8Vb # :line3: to :line2: . These will be the positions for those false tone C and B - exactly the same as the E and D# on the valve.

Working this way will very likely have the benefit of improving your tone production in the valve register generally. Over time you will find you have a more immediately centered and full tone (resulting in better articulations) on all of the valve notes, and you will be able to play the false tone low C and B immediately as well.

Have fun with your old Conn! I love mine!

Thank you Gabe!

This is kind of how I approach it already and I do feel it is getting better. To me it seems like the false tones benefit from thinking/playing "more focused than open". It's quite easy to kind of drop the jaw to reach them, but same as with "regular" low notes this tends to loose focus. It might be that a jaw movement somewhat forward helps, I might experiment a bit with that. Then again I don't want to create unnecessary movement/adjustment.

And yes, you also have fun with your old Conn! It just competes with three other great bass trombones...

To me it feels like playing the normal note, just without the full help of the instrument.

[quote="GabrielRice"]To develop the false tones of low C and B, I'd say start on the open horn, b :line2: in first position, and simply stay in first and bend the pitch down to b :line1: , then :space1: to :space0:, # :line1: to :line0: , etc.

Resist the temptation to bend the pitch by backing way off on the volume - keep the sound full at a healthy but unforced mf all the way through the bend.[/quote]

This is how I practice them. Play at a healthy mf or f, and slowly lip down until it locks on the major 3rd below. If it doesn't lock, I'm not doing it right. The goal is to keep the volume and tone quality the same as the starting "real" note.

If the horn has a valve (or two), I'll then go back and forth between playing each trigger register note with the valve(s) and then as a false tone and try to match the sound and attack.

Then I'll do arpeggios that go in and out of the false tones (e.g. a D major arpeggio playing the low D as a false tone in 5th) and try to keep the sound consistent with the notes above.

Finally, I'll practice using them in musical contexts. Could be Bordognis 8vb, bass excerpts on tenor, or making up musical false tone-centric exercises.

I find that practicing false tones helps me to use my air more efficiently everywhere, so even though I rarely need to play false tones on a gig, I practice them pretty often. I used the low C and B false tones a ton in big bands back when I was using a stock single valve 72H, but nowadays I only need them to maliciously comply with bad writing...a random low D in a big band lead part, or trigger-register plunger work in a big band bass part.

I've noticed that my face moves quite a bit when I play false tones, but I'm not doing it intentionally.

[quote="GabrielRice"]<QUOTE author="MStarke" post_id="290338" time="1765316181" user_id="4208">
Is there something you adapt actively in your embouchure?[/quote]

Interesting question. Obviously yes, the embouchure changes the pitch, but I can't say there's a conscious manipulation of my lips to do it. I think they probably pucker a bit more into the mouthpiece, but it pretty much happens on its own.

Sam Burtis used to say that he thought there was a weak partial a major third below the 2nd partial, and I think he was right. To develop the false tones of low C and B, I'd say start on the open horn, b :line2: in first position, and simply stay in first and bend the pitch down to b :line1: , then :space1: to :space0:, # :line1: to :line0: , etc.

Resist the temptation to bend the pitch by backing way off on the volume - keep the sound full at a healthy but unforced mf all the way through the bend.

Work your way into the valve register: :space0: in 1st to 8Vb b :line3: , :line0: to 8Vb :space2: , 8Vb # :line3: to :line2: . These will be the positions for those false tone C and B - exactly the same as the E and D# on the valve.

Working this way will very likely have the benefit of improving your tone production in the valve register generally. Over time you will find you have a more immediately centered and full tone (resulting in better articulations) on all of the valve notes, and you will be able to play the false tone low C and B immediately as well.

Have fun with your old Conn! I love mine!
</QUOTE>
Yup same for me, 1st position gives Gb for me. And actually it's a bit flat for a Gb, more like an F# that would be in tune in a D major chord. Since I basically never use the first position note, I end up in practice thinking about it from the opposite direction, i.e. playing the fake notes one (somewhat shortened) position further out than where I can play the notes an octave higher. So for example I see low Eb as almost one position lower than middle Eb, rather than thinking of it as being the same position as low G but pulled in a bit.

One thing about "bending" in general: the great historical trumpet player and teacher Friedeman Immer (barqoue and natural trumpet players have to bend notes a lot!) says that he never uses "bending the note", and prefers using the expression "driving the note", because it emphasises that it's not passive and requires added focus. It's very easy to bend notes down by just collapsing the embouchure, but the sound is usually not good, the intonation unreliable, and there's no control.

For me, two exercises that help me alot are 1) exactly what Gabe suggested, and 2) practicing playing a full scale from Bb to pedal Bb without ever moving the slide, then A to pedal A, Ab to pedal Ab, etc. None of the notes are going to properly lock, but it develops control of the chops in that range.

Another thing that helps me is doing the Stamp warm-up on a straight Bb instrument.

I'm not a bass trombonist, but I was thinking on the same lines as Gabe too.

[quote="GabrielRice"]Resist the temptation to bend the pitch by backing way off on the volume - keep the sound full at a healthy but unforced mf all the way through the bend.[/quote]

I would also add to keep the mouthpiece pressure from getting too light too.

One thing I might suggest would be to not just practice bending pitches down, but also bend up. It might even be helpful to practice that in the middle and upper register some as well.

Doug Elliott gave me Reinhardt's Elasticity Routine exercise a while back, which came to mind. Play a middle Bb :tenorclef: :space3: in 1st and lip gliss up to D :tenorclef: :space4: and back down again. Keep the mouthpiece pressure consistent (don't back off) and try to bend the pitch up and down as smoothly as possible. There's a lot more to the whole routine, but that's the general idea.

Dave

Here’s a little exercise I wrote some time ago.

<ATTACHMENT filename="Major Triad With Lower Factitious Tone.pdf" index="0">[attachment=0]Major Triad With Lower Factitious Tone.pdf</ATTACHMENT>

I’ve also thought about writing a similar exercise outlining a major chord starting on Bb where Bb is the root, slur down to a factitious tone of F (in second), up to Bb, up to D in staff, down to Bb. I’ll wait for a rainy day.

[quote="GabrielRice"]<QUOTE author="MStarke" post_id="290338" time="1765316181" user_id="4208">
Is there something you adapt actively in your embouchure?[/quote]

Sam Burtis used to say that he thought there was a weak partial a major third below the 2nd partial, and I think he was right. To develop the false tones of low C and B, I'd say start on the open horn, b :line2: in first position, and simply stay in first and bend the pitch down to b :line1: , then :space1: to :space0:, # :line1: to :line0: , etc.

Resist the temptation to bend the pitch by backing way off on the volume - keep the sound full at a healthy but unforced mf all the way through the bend.

Work your way into the valve register: :space0: in 1st to 8Vb b :line3: , :line0: to 8Vb :space2: , 8Vb # :line3: to :line2: . These will be the positions for those false tone C and B - exactly the same as the E and D# on the valve.

</QUOTE>

I misread this the first time, didn't notice the flat sign before the G first line. Almost exactly a year ago we had the same conversation and Burgerbob posted similar instructions but included a graphic. I will attempt to paste it:

by Burgerbob » Sat Jan 27, 2024 11:30 pm

The way it was explained to me is that the false tones are a series in B.

The 1st partial is pedal B in first position, a major 7th below pedal Bb

3rd partial is F#, major 3rd below 2nd partial Bb

5th partial is D#, whole step below 3rd partial F

7th partial is flat A, half step below 4th partial Bb

and it follows down the slide. Something to do with the acoustics of the instrument... far above my math pay grade. Notice how we only get every other partial.

<IMGUR id="93plXai">https://i.imgur.com/93plXai.jpeg</IMGUR>

Last edited by Burgerbob on Sat Jan 27, 2024 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teache

r

<SCRIBD id="63781075"><LINK_TEXT text="https://www.scribd.com/doc/63781075/Pra ... r-Trombone">https://www.scribd.com/doc/63781075/Practice-With-the-Experts-Twenty-Five-Favorite-Exercises-for-Trombone</LINK_TEXT></SCRIBD>

The link above to the Practice-With-the-Experts.... have some good stuf to practice, among other Paul Tanners guide to fals tones. timothy42 did give a correct explation about the series of the partials. The "factitous tones are not really factious, they are real tones that are in the instrument to played . I use a "normal" embouchure for the tones, not some wierd face mimics. For praticing I sugest playing : 2nd partial C v1, G open 4, E v2, false low C v2. thats for low C . 2 partial B v2, F# open 5, D# v5, false low B v3, check your position on the v3, many players play it sharp. As said the false notes are not really false, the same embouchure but maybe more focused. Good luck!

[quote="timothy42b"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob">
5th partial is D#, whole step below 3rd partial F

7th partial is flat A, half step below 4th partial Bb
[/quote]
</QUOTE>

I assume no one actually uses these higher partials in practice or performance.

[quote="AtomicClock"]<QUOTE author="timothy42b" post_id="291068" time="1766503431" user_id="211">[/quote]

I assume no one actually uses these higher partials in practice or performance.
</QUOTE>

I'm not sure there would be an advantage, and the regular resonance is so strong there it would be hard to do.

I just tried, couldn't really get a lock on either of those, whereas I can on the lower ones.

I’ve gotten really good at low B on my tenor. I did this by aiming for the note in the position that works best for me on my horn and trying each time to improve the quality of sound. Took a couple of months. No secret sauce here.

I'm very curious as to why there would be a B overtone series available with only the odd overtones. I'd love to read or hear a good explanation, that would be fascinating if it's true.

My understanding is that the fake F#-ish in first position is an octave higher than the true first mode of resonance of the instrument (which we don't typically use – pedal Bb is not actually a mode of resonance as I and others have posted about elsewhere on the forum, and the true first mode is roughly around an F# below pedal Bb), and therefore aligns with the overtones series of that lower resonance. I find that a more likely explanation for why that note is available there and why we're able to at least partially excite the air column: I believe by buzzing that F# we get a very weak standing wave due to it being the first overtone of that unused first mode of resonance, and it's just enough to make the note more stable and more "locked" than any other bent pitch.

Similar in some ways and completely opposite in others from a pedal note (where the note itself is not a mode of resonance, but all its overtones are). Here too the note itself is not a mode of resonance, but as opposed to a pedal note, neither are its overtones, yet the note and its overtones are all overtones of a lower note that is a mode of resonance.

[quote="LeTromboniste"]I'm very curious as to why there would be a B overtone series available with only the odd overtones.

My understanding is that the fake F#-ish in first position is an octave higher than the true first mode of resonance of the instrument (which we don't typically use – pedal Bb is not actually a mode of resonance as I and others have posted about elsewhere on the forum, and the true first mode is roughly around an F# below pedal Bb), and therefore aligns with the overtones series of that lower resonance.

<snips>
[/quote]

Another reasonable explanation. It's supported somewhat by evidence; we know there is a first mode below the pedal. Benade mentions it though I couldn't find the frequency, but other sources agree with F#.

I haven't found support for the claimed B overtone series.

But then, there also isn't an overtone series above the F# either, so any alignment is with only the fundamental. (well there is an overtone series above the F#; trouble is it is the familiar Bb series)

Something I've recently discovered, and is fun, is playing a steady C2 with the trigger, glissing from 7th to 1st and back out repeatedly, trying to keep constant pitch and tone. I use this as a cool down and warmup when I'm tired, but I've found I went from poor false tones to maybe being useful in the near future.

False tones - how to get them performance-ready?

Scales. Lots of practice on scales. Go me I helped develop some pretty good, performance-ready and audition-ready false tones was that: Multi-octave scales, all the scales, crossing over and thru with false tones. I started with double-pedals both 1-7 and V1-7 then graduated to other false tones. At least for me that was my path and success.

These days I do more mouthpiece free-buzzing. and working the oral cavity to resonate them. I whistle them or sing them. I find if I can hear the false tone in my head. then I can sing it. then if I can do both, then I try to whistle the false tone. Then I free buzz it. Then once all of that is solid, only then do I do it on the horn. Then it is plenty of scales.

I am interested in specific exercises, but even more in the actual technique.

Is there something you adapt actively in your embouchure?

My need was pretty similar to yours. I had a single value Blessing B88 (like a 88H). so it was a tenor and not even a single valve bass. But I, too, had a need for a good usable C2 and B1 in a single valve. What did I do? I played them in V6 and V7. I heard the tones and in my mind and willed me and the horn to play them, in tune, in V6 and V7. And I did it using mind over matter. It just takes practice, confidence, will, and determination. they do sound a little softer and duller. Yet totally passable. But the strobe tuner would tell me it was the true note nonetheless!

I try another link.

<LINK_TEXT text="http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... rassa.html">http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Music/brassa.html</LINK_TEXT>

Actually the fundamentel frequency of a closed pipe with the same lenght as the trombone is a B.

If you have good low chops you may find that on a tenor with a large mpc. I is more easy on a sackbut,

[quote="Olofson"]I try another link.

<LINK_TEXT text="http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... rassa.html">http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Music/brassa.html</LINK_TEXT>

Actually the fundamentel frequency of a closed pipe with the same lenght as the trombone is a B.

If you have good low chops you may find that on a tenor with a large mpc. I is more easy on a sackbut,[/quote]

That's a great chart, nice visuals.

But to my eyes it supports the F# mentioned above.

Yes it's for a trumpet but trombone is just an octave lower.

(I guess without the mouthpiece and bell it would be a B.)

[quote="Olofson"]I try another link.

<LINK_TEXT text="http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hb ... rassa.html">http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Music/brassa.html</LINK_TEXT>

Actually the fundamentel frequency of a closed pipe with the same lenght as the trombone is a B.

If you have good low chops you may find that on a tenor with a large mpc. I is more easy on a sackbut,[/quote]

It would be around B an octave below pedal Bb without a mouthpiece and bell. But the bell and mouthpiece combine to shift the modes of resonance up and closer together. The first mode gets shifted from that low B-ish up to F#-ish.