After reflecting on some recent threads, I did a little experiment that I recreated on the linked video. I wanted to see what would have the biggest individual effect on generating high notes. First, I tried manipulating vowel shapes and tongue levels without changing my embouchure or air. Then I tried to create a more pressurized air stream (again doing my best to not change anything else). Finally I simply used my embouchure to squeeze up the pitch. In the video you can see the only thing that could change the pitch by itself is the embouchure. It sounds horrible, but nothing else by itself can alter the pitch. It seems that being able to buzz a pitch is quite important to being able to play it. Other things support the resonance and enhance the sound of the buzz, but they don’t seem to be able to, by themselves, change the pitch. So is it the lips?

<YOUTUBE id="fdKnDMsdPHI">https://youtu.be/fdKnDMsdPHI</YOUTUBE>

Its all of it together. Yes we can change partials in a not-very-controlled way and with a not good tone and no volume or resonance, whereas the other parameters on their own won't make us change partials. That doesn't mean a good healthy high note is the result of mainly the lips doing something.

Also how do you create a "more pressurized air stream" without changing something in your lips to create resistance and/or changing something upstream to speed up the air (i.e. your tongue arch)?

Yes, it is an entire system that contributes. There have been some published physics studies that use artificial lips to help the researchers isolate particular factors to see what sort of influence they have on pitch. For example, one paper studied the effect of tongue position on intonation and timbre. They were able to keep the "lips" consistent and just alter the shape of the artificial vocal tract to see what happened. They noted as the "tongue" was raised the pitch when sharp. If I understand what you were doing in your video, it seems as if when you raised your tongue the pitch went sharp. The authors even noted that they were able to affect a change in partials by altering the size and shape of their artificial vocal tract.

<LINK_TEXT text="http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/reprin ... ueSMAC.pdf">http://newt.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jw/reprints/tongueSMAC.pdf</LINK_TEXT>

That link isn't opening for me just now, not sure if the link is broken or if it's something else.

[quote="VJOFan"]Finally I simply used my embouchure to squeeze up the pitch.[/quote]

Take a close look at your embouchure while you're doing this. I notice that you're pulling your mouthpiece and lips together down as you ascend (Reinhardt called this a "pivot", I usually call it an "embouchure motion"). Your horn angle also adjusts too.

So in your experiment you're not simply squeezing your lips together more firmly. The embouchure motion is an important part of embouchure technique, but interestingly it's not something that we do with the lips, we do that with the arms.

Dave

Le Tromboniste:

I tried to "pressurize" just with abdominal strength. I get that it's not possible, but that is what I was looking at. If I am going to think about changing anything about the air it ends up having something to do with the lips (too at least?). Trying to pressurize without the lips doesn't do anything or can't be done. That's the point.

For Dr. Dave: I just can't ever be precise enough. I saw the embouchure motion too. (Happy to have it, as that has been a year of work to make it unconscious) I suppose I just feel that as all part of the front of house work. Anything behind the lips is the support system to let the teeth-lips-rim do their job? I could have stopped the motion if I had thought about it. Maybe I'll try again Friday. There will be visible signs around the rim at any rate as those muscles contract.

As far as there being a pitch change with the mouth/tongue motion, again, not specific enough. I was looking for partial shifts. If I had gone a little further I could have easily got all the over tones to pop out with mouth shapes and a steady embouchure. But I still don't think there would have been a partial change.

Of course it's all together to makegood sounding, efficient playing. It's just interesting that it's the up front where the pitch really moves the most.

It coordinates with my own playing history.

I don't think anybody disputes that the lips have a big role to play. The point that some make is that that's really only one element, and the key for it to work well is to have all the other elements also working together. There is not one single key to high range, because it's a complex system with several elements and each player has varying relative strengths and weaknesses among those elements.

[quote="LeTromboniste"]I don't think anybody disputes that the lips have a big role to play. The point that some make is that that's really only one element, and the key for it to work well is to have all the other elements also working together. There is not one single key to high range, because it's a complex system with several elements and each player has varying relative strengths and weaknesses among those elements.[/quote]
This!

Yes, and the “keys” are, if you will: experimentation, replication, assessment, consistency, and patience.

[quote="LeTromboniste"]There is not one single key to high range, because it's a complex system with several elements[/quote]

and very few of the elements are visible or measurable, so we rely on mental images that only loosely correspond to the mechanics.