King 6B Duo Gravis Silversonic
- JTeagarden
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Feb 24, 2025
There is a King 6B Duo Gravis Silversonic for sale through Baltimore Brass that has clearly seen better days:
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.baltimorebrasscompany.com/p ... mbone.aspx">https://www.baltimorebrasscompany.com/p-17366-king-duo-gravis-silver-sonic-dependent-bass-trombone.aspx</LINK_TEXT>
Given its condition, it clearly is way overpriced (it's been there for at least a year), but the question is: What all would need to be done to it to make it usable, and at what price is it worth the trouble to do so?
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.baltimorebrasscompany.com/p ... mbone.aspx">https://www.baltimorebrasscompany.com/p-17366-king-duo-gravis-silver-sonic-dependent-bass-trombone.aspx</LINK_TEXT>
Given its condition, it clearly is way overpriced (it's been there for at least a year), but the question is: What all would need to be done to it to make it usable, and at what price is it worth the trouble to do so?
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
You'd have to polish the bell, put some suitable levers on there (looks like sax roller keys or Conn levers) and repair/replace the main bell brace. And of course take out the junk they put in there. And maybe get some real photos that aren't intended to hide the real condition of that area of the horn.
I'd let someone who likes it as it is buy it rather than trying to fix it. There are enough of these in better condition.
I'd let someone who likes it as it is buy it rather than trying to fix it. There are enough of these in better condition.
- JTeagarden
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Feb 24, 2025
Thanks, not sure how rare a DG SS is, but the more I really get into my Bach Corp 50, the more I realize keeping up with smaller horns is not such a great tactic, and focusing just on bass bone will produce better results.
The DG SS seems like a good complement to the 50.
The DG SS seems like a good complement to the 50.
- boneagain
- Posts: 276
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
From the description this horn has seen some real action.
It's also about 50 years old
and no one makes anything quite like it anymore.
This particular one has a nice answer to the (many) folks who did not like reaching around the DG bell brace.
Looks on a par with the McCracken linkage work.
Since McCracken designed the horn in the first place, you can be sure he did the best he could on alternate key setups. You'll note that THIS one automatically engages the F rotor if you press just the D pad. Also note that the F lever connection go UNDER the receiver, so the heel of the hand does not foul them.
Seems like a fair price for a pretty much irreplaceable sterling silver belled horn.
Wonder if the National ever had this horn/player and Mr. Kraft in the section at the same time?
Two Duo Gravis (Gravises? Gravii?) on the bottom of a symphony would be unreal :)
Dave Adams
It's also about 50 years old
and no one makes anything quite like it anymore.
This particular one has a nice answer to the (many) folks who did not like reaching around the DG bell brace.
Looks on a par with the McCracken linkage work.
Since McCracken designed the horn in the first place, you can be sure he did the best he could on alternate key setups. You'll note that THIS one automatically engages the F rotor if you press just the D pad. Also note that the F lever connection go UNDER the receiver, so the heel of the hand does not foul them.
Seems like a fair price for a pretty much irreplaceable sterling silver belled horn.
Wonder if the National ever had this horn/player and Mr. Kraft in the section at the same time?
Two Duo Gravis (Gravises? Gravii?) on the bottom of a symphony would be unreal :)
Dave Adams
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Friend of mine here bought a 6BSS to use at work. He wanted something more commercial than the Benge 290 he previously used (also owns a Greenhoe 62H). He found the 6BSS to actually be TOO orchestral- it sounded huge! The other sticking point was that it was dependent, of course. He sold it pretty quickly.
- JTeagarden
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Feb 24, 2025
At the very least, from the additional photos sent to me, given substantial plating loss at the stockings, it should have the inner slide tubes replaced, which may or may not be easy to find.
- WGWTR180
- Posts: 2152
- Joined: Sep 04, 2019
[quote="Burgerbob"]Friend of mine here bought a 6BSS to use at work. He wanted something more commercial than the Benge 290 he previously used (also owns a Greenhoe 62H). He found the 6BSS to actually be TOO orchestral- it sounded huge! The other sticking point was that it was dependent, of course. He sold it pretty quickly.[/quote]
Yeh those SS models can be used for about anything. Interesting that your friend bought a horn that he knew was a dependent setup and yet a sticking point was that it is dependent. I also still cannot believe that players cannot function using a dependent setup. But hey that was your friend's choice.
Yeh those SS models can be used for about anything. Interesting that your friend bought a horn that he knew was a dependent setup and yet a sticking point was that it is dependent. I also still cannot believe that players cannot function using a dependent setup. But hey that was your friend's choice.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
I have an independent bass and play it like dependent. Let me get that Duo Gravis.
- Chazzer69
- Posts: 296
- Joined: Jul 06, 2019
There's a minty-looking one for sale in Japan. At twice the price...
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
When it's memorized music... hard to give up on that muscle memory. I certainly can't do it.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]When it's memorized music... hard to give up on that muscle memory. I certainly can't do it.[/quote]
Yup. If you've really got a piece burned in and change from indy to dependent, your reflexes can really trip you up. I have the same issue switching between horns with different valve tunings.
Yup. If you've really got a piece burned in and change from indy to dependent, your reflexes can really trip you up. I have the same issue switching between horns with different valve tunings.
- KWL
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Oct 23, 2019
That horn was discussed in this November 2024 thread: <LINK_TEXT text="viewtopic.php?t=38272">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=38272</LINK_TEXT>
- WGWTR180
- Posts: 2152
- Joined: Sep 04, 2019
[quote="Burgerbob"]When it's memorized music... hard to give up on that muscle memory. I certainly can't do it.[/quote]
Believe me I went through the same thing-21 years and thousands of shows. However one thing that helped me deal with doing the same thing over and over was changing up instruments. Makes you actually think instead of just "going through the motions." Saved me.
Believe me I went through the same thing-21 years and thousands of shows. However one thing that helped me deal with doing the same thing over and over was changing up instruments. Makes you actually think instead of just "going through the motions." Saved me.
- JTeagarden
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Feb 24, 2025
I decided to pass on this particular DG SS, what do you guys think of a mid 60s single valve 72H?
Seems in remarkable condition, but for plating loss on one of the stockings, is this easily replaced (tubes of the right size are available?)
Seems in remarkable condition, but for plating loss on one of the stockings, is this easily replaced (tubes of the right size are available?)
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
Oof, that "modification" to the bell brace. Also the bell is fine. Silversonic horns are lacquered over the sterling silver, so those are just areas where the lacquer is worn / scratched, much like you see on any horn that has seen quite a bit of use.
That said, the Silversonic sterling bells are not for everyone. They really change the feel and sound of the instrument. I like to call them the "Mel Torme" of trombone bells.
That said, the Silversonic sterling bells are not for everyone. They really change the feel and sound of the instrument. I like to call them the "Mel Torme" of trombone bells.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="JTeagarden"]I decided to pass on this particular DG SS, what do you guys think of a mid 60s single valve 72H?
Seems in remarkable condition, but for plating loss on one of the stockings, is this easily replaced (tubes of the right size are available?)[/quote]
Good move. I'm a fan of the brass DG, but the SS seems overdone to me, and that one in particular is an effing train wreck. I've never played an SS DG, but the SS bell seems too heavy, and the extra cost doesn't seem to bring anything to the table (unless you are using it as a symphonic horn, in which case there are a lot of other choices). I don't care if a pro played it successfully, they swapped out one bad system for one that's even worse. You're still pushing in the same direction against both springs, which doubles your grip force in the left hand.
A 72h has a different problem. It's great as long as you don't need C and B. Well, you can kinda get C, and B is there if you can pull the valve slide. A double valve 72h would be universally useful.
You might consider just a regular Duo Gravis which would be about half the price of the Balt Brass option. Then make sure you swap out the stock 2nd valve lever with a finger trigger. With that solved, the only thing that stands between the DG and perfection is indy valves, but the dependent valves are workable, and leaves you with a great sounding instrument that can ride the bridge between tenor and bass effectively.
Seems in remarkable condition, but for plating loss on one of the stockings, is this easily replaced (tubes of the right size are available?)[/quote]
Good move. I'm a fan of the brass DG, but the SS seems overdone to me, and that one in particular is an effing train wreck. I've never played an SS DG, but the SS bell seems too heavy, and the extra cost doesn't seem to bring anything to the table (unless you are using it as a symphonic horn, in which case there are a lot of other choices). I don't care if a pro played it successfully, they swapped out one bad system for one that's even worse. You're still pushing in the same direction against both springs, which doubles your grip force in the left hand.
A 72h has a different problem. It's great as long as you don't need C and B. Well, you can kinda get C, and B is there if you can pull the valve slide. A double valve 72h would be universally useful.
You might consider just a regular Duo Gravis which would be about half the price of the Balt Brass option. Then make sure you swap out the stock 2nd valve lever with a finger trigger. With that solved, the only thing that stands between the DG and perfection is indy valves, but the dependent valves are workable, and leaves you with a great sounding instrument that can ride the bridge between tenor and bass effectively.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="KWL"]That horn was discussed in this November 2024 thread: <LINK_TEXT text="viewtopic.php?t=38272">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=38272</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
Thanks for catching that. Interesting that the modification is an accommodation for an injury. That's the kind of person who will need it, and that's the kind of person who will want to spend that much for a horn with that kind of modification.
In the past I kind of agreed with 2bobone and Raph that the over/under levers weren't as bad as people try to make them out to be. But after some practical use, I find pushing the same direction against both valves just makes your overall left hand grip way too much, and the thumb calisthenics can be exhausting when there's a lot of motion centering on low C and B.
I do find the playability of the DG to be really excellent, aside from the ergo issues. I'm not as sold on the SS version, I think it eliminates some of the advantage of the lighter brass version, but brings this model back into play for orchestral performance.
Last night I took my brass DG to big band and used a DE H cup (about the size of a 3G) and it was really nice, if maybe a little lean for low Cs and beyond (it worked, but took a 20 minute warmup to get the low notes). Next time I'll go back to the J cup or the Curry 2.0 D.
Thanks for catching that. Interesting that the modification is an accommodation for an injury. That's the kind of person who will need it, and that's the kind of person who will want to spend that much for a horn with that kind of modification.
In the past I kind of agreed with 2bobone and Raph that the over/under levers weren't as bad as people try to make them out to be. But after some practical use, I find pushing the same direction against both valves just makes your overall left hand grip way too much, and the thumb calisthenics can be exhausting when there's a lot of motion centering on low C and B.
I do find the playability of the DG to be really excellent, aside from the ergo issues. I'm not as sold on the SS version, I think it eliminates some of the advantage of the lighter brass version, but brings this model back into play for orchestral performance.
Last night I took my brass DG to big band and used a DE H cup (about the size of a 3G) and it was really nice, if maybe a little lean for low Cs and beyond (it worked, but took a 20 minute warmup to get the low notes). Next time I'll go back to the J cup or the Curry 2.0 D.
- KWL
- Posts: 123
- Joined: Oct 23, 2019
A 3G seems a bit light for a big band bass trombone part. It will be interesting to hear the difference with the J cup. Want to borrow my “Robert Kraft” Giardinelli custom? I’m not sure if he was using it with his Duo Gravis. Definitely he used it with his Fuchs 70H.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="KWL"]A 3G seems a bit light for a big band bass trombone part. It will be interesting to hear the difference with the J cup. Want to borrow my “Robert Kraft” Giardinelli custom? I’m not sure if he was using it with his Duo Gravis. Definitely he used it with his Fuchs 70H.[/quote]
Well, you know, it might have been a bit small, but I'm looking for the boundaries. I've definitely got stuff that's "too big". My DE K piece is too big. the Curry 1.5 D is too big, but works a treat until it wears me out. The H is on the fringe of too small, and the J is pretty close to just right. But the H did sound good with the DG, I think.
Well, you know, it might have been a bit small, but I'm looking for the boundaries. I've definitely got stuff that's "too big". My DE K piece is too big. the Curry 1.5 D is too big, but works a treat until it wears me out. The H is on the fringe of too small, and the J is pretty close to just right. But the H did sound good with the DG, I think.
- sf105
- Posts: 433
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
[quote="hyperbolica"]In the past I kind of agreed with 2bobone and Raph that the over/under levers weren't as bad as people try to make them out to be. But after some practical use, I find pushing the same direction against both valves just makes your overall left hand grip way too much, and the thumb calisthenics can be exhausting when there's a lot of motion centering on low C and B.[/quote]
Agreed about the thumb triggers which can be a pain if one has the wrong hands. That said, I've recently started using a neogrip with mine and it makes all the difference.
Agreed about the thumb triggers which can be a pain if one has the wrong hands. That said, I've recently started using a neogrip with mine and it makes all the difference.