Talk me off this ledge.

I've been playing Yamaha 354s and variations for my whole life, and 3 or 4 years ago, I traded an Olds trumpet for a newer Yamaha 200AD in excellent condition (aka 354 with a mustache on)

In June of 2025, I traded a 2BL Jiggs for a newer 3B (probably 90s or early 2000s, haven't checked with the SN yet).

I've been playing this 3B a lot over the second half of 2025, and of course A/B testing it against the 200AD very often in that time.

I've come to the conclusion that the Yamaha just DOES it for me.

The Yamaha slots REALLY well, has a thicker tone with a fuller core and much faster response especially in the low register, is dead-accurate with very easy response in the extreme high register, and plays well with quite different mouthpieces (I play a Stork T1 and Schilke 51 - bright conical mpc vs a rather deep cup shaped mpc.)

The 3B plays pretty well in general, but at it's best, I find that this particular 3B is just *on par*, and at its relative worst, it just doesn't slot as well and doesn't have the full sound I get with the Yamaha. It also really works better with shallow mouthpieces and doesn't darken/fatten up the way I'd like with a deeper mouthpiece. The biggest advantage it offers is much lighter slide and bell.

All this to say, I know the majority of folks are going to just say "play what you like"/"play what you sound best on", but in a way I feel like I shouldn't be gravitating so much toward a "student" horn and away from THE professional jazz trombone. I really want to like this 3B, but I feel like I'd be deluding myself just to be able to say I play a 3B if I keep it.

Maybe I'll try to trade it for an 891Z.

The 3B isn't ever at it's best or worst. It's just an inanimate object. Keep both! You never know when your taste might change.

I'm with you on questioning the 3b. They are just a bit thin sound/feel for my taste. Can't say I've ever played a 354, but my guess is that they're just the opposite - pretty heavy. You don't have to answer to anyone for which horns you like. The world doesn't begin and end on slotting. I only consider it as a part of overall playability. I like a horn that doesn't make it easy to crack notes. Try a Getzen 3508, or if you want a budget horn, try an Olds Recording.

[quote="davdud101"]Talk me off this ledge.

I've been playing Yamaha 354s and variations for my whole life, and 3 or 4 years ago, I traded an Olds trumpet for a newer Yamaha 200AD in excellent condition (aka 354 with a mustache on)

In June of 2025, I traded a 2BL Jiggs for a newer 3B (probably 90s or early 2000s, haven't checked with the SN yet).

I've been playing this 3B a lot over the second half of 2025, and of course A/B testing it against the 200AD very often in that time.

I've come to the conclusion that the Yamaha just DOES it for me.

The Yamaha slots REALLY well, has a thicker tone with a fuller core and much faster response especially in the low register, is dead-accurate with very easy response in the extreme high register, and plays well with quite different mouthpieces (I play a Stork T1 and Schilke 51 - bright conical mpc vs a rather deep cup shaped mpc.)

The 3B plays pretty well in general, but at it's best, I find that this particular 3B is just *on par*, and at its relative worst, it just doesn't slot as well and doesn't have the full sound I get with the Yamaha. It also really works better with shallow mouthpieces and doesn't darken/fatten up the way I'd like with a deeper mouthpiece. The biggest advantage it offers is much lighter slide and bell.

All this to say, I know the majority of folks are going to just say "play what you like"/"play what you sound best on", but in a way I feel like I shouldn't be gravitating so much toward a "student" horn and away from THE professional jazz trombone. I really want to like this 3B, but I feel like I'd be deluding myself just to be able to say I play a 3B if I keep it.

Maybe I'll try to trade it for an 891Z.[/quote]

I’ve never played a 3B, but I have a 2510, which is the Japan only edition of the 354. It’s a super fun instrument to play. Big sound, super responsive, easy to cover the whole range, clean articulations, and so on. After I do a little breathing and light mouthpiece buzzing, my first notes of the day are always on my 2510 before I make my way over to my symphonic tenor. Really dials things in for me and it’s just a fun horn to play.

There are several players who have won gigs and played their careers on 354s. Don’t overthink it. Do what’s best for you.

Different horns for different people. Play what you think sounds better.

As for selling the 3B - do you really need to? Why do something you may regret if you don't need to?

For years I kept coming back to a yamaha 354 and used that horn to compare all others to. I went through plenty of horns of nearly every make and model, including a number of very expensive horns, and just kept going back to the 354. I am currently playing a 3B and a 3BF, but have thrown in a 653 bell section with 354 slide that is easier in almost every way. I have been seriously considering picking up a 354 in decent shape and getting rid of the 3Bs. I probably would have done this a while ago, but 3Bs are so prevalent in my playing situations that I sort of feel I need to play one.

A well made 354 will outplay a 3B with some issues (possibly imperceptible without rebuild). I’ve heard that Mike Dease has been playing a 354 with a cut bell and heavier counterweight for some work and loves it. A wonderful design!!!

Keep the 3B, it will hold its value and you might want something different down the line.

I just acquired a 35-year-old "closet queen" 3B that I had refurbished by a master tech, and planned to sell. But after playing it in groups, I'm sorely tempted to keep it. It's a beautiful instrument that makes a great sound.

The 354 is a great design and I feel pretty much the same way. Of 3Bs, you'd probably like the 3BSS sound more than the yellow bell, but your feelings about slotting and response wouldn't necessarily change.

I'd say sell or trade the 3B, especially if there's something else you'd find interesting... maybe a 48H? After all, if you decided you wanted to try another 3B somewhere in the future, they're not exactly rare.

The 200AD I tried a few years ago was really nice. I'd use it - better than the 354's I have.. Some 3B's are great horns, others not. If you can afford to hang onto it, keep it - it never hurts to have an extra horn.

I've been playing an early-70's 3B as my main horn for more than 30 years, but I've played several others (both new and older) that I didn't like nearly as much. Ultimately, the horn that works for you is the one you should play. Yamahas are great instruments, even the student line, but personally I've never been able to get the sound out of them that I want.

One caveat: we also tend to sound best on/like the instrument we're most comfortable with. It's possible you might come to think differently about the 3B as you become more familiar with it. Or not.

I'd say, like always, that you should stick with the setup you're comfortable with, not regarding weather it's supposed to be "student" or "pro", expansive or not...

I sold my Courtois for 1500€ and switched back to my old 350$ tempo because it does it better for me... No further thinking.

Thanks everyone for the awesome replies..... got a lot of good insight reading some responses.

I decided I'll keep the horn for a while longer (maybe another year), make it easily available to myself - I used to keep the Yamaha out on a stand, but maybe I'll put that in the case and stow it away and have the 3B within reach instead. Then I can pull the Yamaha back out after a year and evaluate which one I like more.

If I don't like it, I'll sell it and save for a 891Z :biggrin: Thanks again for the wide variety of opinions. I was *THIS* close to taking pics and making an eBay listing.

I was going to reply to everyone individually but it would flood the forum too much, I think.