Holton TR-181

Backbone · by **Backbone** » 2019-03-14 1:06 p.m.

Hello all!

I know that some out in trombone land have a negative view of the TR-181. But my question is that there must be those out there who like or even love it. I own one and I am actually learning to love it more and more. Most of the issues I heard about it - stuffy, heavy etc. - I have found to be either my fault or easily remedied.

Things I have done to mine include:

Pulled the lead pipe and put in a Kanstul 169 which I like way more that the C I had before - and I liked the C better than the original. This has made a tremendous difference for me.

Added screwbell so that I can take it on trips. While this was the purpose of this modification I found I like the sound and control better now.

Things I have planned:

Playing around with brace placement.

I use for wind symphony, concert band, and big band in a community setting.

So who out there actually likes or loves their 181? I know I do!

walldaja · by **walldaja** » 2019-03-14 2:51 p.m.

Any company founded by a trombone player must have done some things right. That said, I've not seen any Holtons in play lately. There's got to be some out there!

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2019-03-14 3:41 p.m.

At the ATW last week I saw Max Seigel playing a modified 185. And doing a marvelous job with it.

<YOUTUBE id="XT4soViwPmw" t="26319">~~[media]~~https://youtu.be/XT4soViwPmw?t=26319</YOUTUBE>

I'm one of those who doesn't care for the 181, but other big Holton bones are really fantastic. I've owned a 181, 156, 159, and I'd love to own a 169, 180, 185.

SwissTbone · by **SwissTbone** » 2019-03-14 4:57 p.m.

No experience with the 181 on my side. But I had a 185 that was spectacular. I really regret that horn.

And a 169 would be one of my dream horns

Kingfan · by **Kingfan** » 2019-03-14 5:16 p.m.

I love my TR-180.

Specialk3700 · by **Specialk3700** » 2019-03-14 6:29 p.m.

I have a stock 181. It's tricky beast. I love the sound but it sure does make you work to earn it. I think these are horns that become way better with some modifications.

Backbone · by **Backbone** » 2019-03-15 5:55 p.m.

[quote="Specialk3700"]I have a stock 181. It's tricky beast. I love the sound but it sure does make you work to earn it. I think these are horns that become way better with some modifications.[/quote]

Definitely recommend a leadpipe change. Totally different beast! But I agree on the sound. Love it.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2019-03-15 6:15 p.m.

Just want to point out that the 181 and all previous designs are vastly different. The 169/185 especially are in a different league.

Backbone · by **Backbone** » 2019-03-15 9:12 p.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]Just want to point out that the 181 and all previous designs are vastly different. The 169/185 especially are in a different league.[/quote]

Yes. Wish I could try one. Almost got a 185 bell section off Ebay but was outbid.

PvtGoose · by **PvtGoose** » 2024-02-26 2:45 p.m.

I played a TR-181 in high school jazz band and love the sound more than anything. I did have some issues with some of the stuff that comes with the age of the instrument, but has anyone found another bass trombone that has a similar sound. I love the warmth and depth that this instrument created and am trying to get one, or something similar to it.

Lastbone · by **Lastbone** » 2024-02-27 2:05 a.m.

I've tried maybe three 181s over the years, all solid players. I thought the thumb trigger might be repositioned.

That said, I played a 180 this evening.

WGWTR180 · by **WGWTR180** » 2024-02-27 7:53 a.m.

[quote="hyperbolica"]At the ATW last week I saw Max Seigel playing a modified 185. And doing a marvelous job with it.

<YOUTUBE id="XT4soViwPmw" t="26319">~~[media]~~https://youtu.be/XT4soViwPmw?t=26319</YOUTUBE>

I'm one of those who doesn't care for the 181, but other big Holton bones are really fantastic. I've owned a 181, 156, 159, and I'd love to own a 169, 180, 185.[/quote]

I sold Max that instrument. Not one of my better decisions, for me. but very happy Max played it. Not really modified unless you consider having the D slide made for the "birds nest " valve a modification. If I'm not mistaken his current M&W is wrap is based off of that design. Max is a wonderful player no matter what he plays on.

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2024-02-27 9:28 a.m.

[quote="WGWTR180"]... Max is a wonderful player no matter what he plays on.[/quote]

Whenever I play bass, I'm always thinking about his sound and his sort of attitude on the horn. That conversational style.

WGWTR180 · by **WGWTR180** » 2024-02-27 9:39 a.m.

[quote="hyperbolica"]<QUOTE author="WGWTR180" post_id="235453" time="1709038420" user_id="7573">
... Max is a wonderful player no matter what he plays on.[/quote]

Whenever I play bass, I'm always thinking about his sound and his sort of attitude on the horn. That conversational style.
</QUOTE>

I love the sound he gets on that Holton. I play Holtons myself.

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2024-02-27 11:14 a.m.

[quote="WGWTR180"]I love the sound he gets on that Holton. I play Holtons myself.[/quote] This is a statement that I love but also makes me sad, considering the fate of the Holton, Olds, King, Conn, and Reynolds bass trombone lines. With Kanstul gone there aren't many companies really looking into the alternatives to the Bach 50 type "Symphonic" trombone in the U.S.

ithinknot · by **ithinknot** » 2024-02-27 12:49 p.m.

[quote="WGWTR180"]I love the sound he gets on that Holton. I play Holtons myself.[/quote]

Me too, and me too

[quote="tbonesullivan"]With Kanstul gone there aren't many companies really looking into the alternatives to the Bach 50 type "Symphonic" trombone in the U.S.[/quote]

Commercially, I know what you mean. As a question of design or manufacture, though, it's worth remembering that Holton basses fundamentally are NY Bachs, in terms of design origin and tapers.

Sure, the "house style" was different for materials and bell construction, but if you had M&W (or Greenhoe, etc) build a 2pc red bell on their 50-ish mandrel, and couple it with their 50-ish tuning slide and a wide 50-ish slide in the appropriate materials, what you'd end up with is legitimately Holton-ish to the same extent that one of their usual Bach-ish models could be considered Bach-ish.

WGWTR180 · by **WGWTR180** » 2024-02-27 12:57 p.m.

[quote="tbonesullivan"]<QUOTE author="WGWTR180" post_id="235463" time="1709044790" user_id="7573">I love the sound he gets on that Holton. I play Holtons myself.[/quote] This is a statement that I love but also makes me sad, considering the fate of the Holton, Olds, King, Conn, and Reynolds bass trombone lines. With Kanstul gone there aren't many companies really looking into the alternatives to the Bach 50 type "Symphonic" trombone in the U.S.
</QUOTE>

I get it. I've owned good ones and bad ones. Many gripes have been stuffy valves and/or lead pipe issues. At lot of them ended up in schools and are beat to s##t. To "modernize" a 185 that I own I sent it Matthew Walker and had him but a set of his valves on it. he did a masterful job and the horn plays SO CLOSE considering the valves are modern-and INLINE. Gives one the ability to turn something into something amazing.

Jim78279 · by **Jim78279** » 2024-10-20 11:37 a.m.

My best friend owns a TR-181. I've played it a couple of times and absolutely love it. I told him if he ever decides to sell it to let me know because I want it. I've been thinking about ordering a new one sometime in the next few months.

Drombone · by **Drombone** » 2024-10-28 3:41 p.m.

I have a TR-181, which I bought for very little money, in pieces, and creased off eBay. Mick Rath and his team turned it into a thing of beauty. With hindsight, I'd have got them to either open the wrap up or de-stay it a bit, but I still love it.

Stewbones43 has an interesting beast that started off life as a TR181. I have little doubt he'll share it here.

Backbone · by **Backbone** » 2024-11-01 4:22 p.m.

[quote="Drombone"]I have a TR-181, which I bought for very little money, in pieces, and creased off eBay. Mick Rath and his team turned it into a thing of beauty. With hindsight, I'd have got them to either open the wrap up or de-stay it a bit, but I still love it.

Stewbones43 has an interesting beast that started off life as a TR181. I have little doubt he'll share it here.[/quote]

That is how I bought mine, but off a forum member. Made making mods easier as it was bought for cheap. I think I remember Stewbones43's horn. Think it had a Rath bell and other valves...??

UATrombone · by **UATrombone** » 2024-11-01 5:25 p.m.

[quote="Backbone"]Added screwbell so that I can take it on trips.[/quote]

Could you explain what kind of ring is it?

Backbone · by **Backbone** » 2024-11-15 10:20 a.m.

John Sandhagen from Boneyard did the work. I do not know what kind of ring it is.

CarlVicVogel · by **CarlVicVogel** » 2024-12-09 4:04 p.m.

When I played bass trombone, I really loved the sound of mine. It really barked and was great for big band music.

Workmanship was first class.

It was sold to a young lady who tested it and also really liked it.

CVCashmere

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2025-06-04 10:06 a.m.

Reviving this thread. Got my hands on a TR-181 the other day. I think it's the easiest playing bass trombone I've tried. Granted, I haven't tried that many to begin with, but this one beats out even the boutique shop basses I've played.

That said, I do wish the valve wrap was reconfigured to be open (just so that the dang moisture can drain -- having to pull out slides in the middle of playing to drain them is lame.)

Also the triggers do need reconfiguration. The linkage is this weird plastic housing that actually hindered the full motion of the lever arm until I loosened the holding screw and hollowed out some of the opening of the opening in the plastic housing around the ball joint. And the thumb lever is entirely too long / at a sub-optimal angle.

But despite that I really really like how the horn plays.

jhousdan · by **jhousdan** » 2026-01-26 12:02 p.m.

I played a 181 for several years and I thought it was a fantastic horn. I wish I hadn't sold mine... especially when I learned that the guy I sold it to more or less wrecked the horn.

The only downside to the horn was the plastic linkages on the valves, I never really liked those.

AtomicClock · by **AtomicClock** » 2026-01-26 12:37 p.m.

[quote="harrisonreed"]That said, I do wish the valve wrap was reconfigured to be open (just so that the dang moisture can drain -- having to pull out slides in the middle of playing to drain them is lame.)[/quote]

Has anyone ever put a water key in the valve wrap?

sf105 · by **sf105** » 2026-01-27 9:58 a.m.

They seem to be popular in the UK, especially amongst brass banders. I had one for a while when they first came out. I "modded" it by getting the bell creased in a revolving door at the Met Opera and it sounded better when straightened out.

One repairer here described it as the Black Cab~~[size=85]~~(1) of the bass trombone. Not a limo but it goes everywhere.

1) standard London taxi

TheConnArtist70H · by **TheConnArtist70H** » 2026-01-29 3:51 p.m.

I played the 181 back in the Eighties along side my Bach 50B, but chose the 50B purely on sound.

In the 90's, I was fortunate enough to buy a TR 180 ( 1977 version ) with the original Glanz bar which was a little

weird at first but managed to get used to it very easily. I was blown away at the sound this produced, tonnes of

overtones with just the right amount of resistance to be able to hold long pedal ranges, I have a studio rehearsal recording somewhere with me playing in Out of Africa and was gobsmacked when I heard me playing this 180. I'll

try and dig it out and put it on hear.

Sadly, I sold it, but would certainly recommend the 180 certainly for Pit / Orchestral work.

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