Soprano trombone mouthpiece
- lightorange
- Posts: 9
- Joined: May 28, 2018
Hi!
I recently bought a cheap soprano trombone. I remember at one point reading on this website something about using a flugelhorn mouthpiece to make the soprano sound more trombone-like. Would that work/how would it work? I've read some more about flugelhorn mouthpieces and it sounds like they have more of a cornet sized shank-- would I need a cornet to trumpet mouthpiece adapter if I wanted to try it?
:alto:
I recently bought a cheap soprano trombone. I remember at one point reading on this website something about using a flugelhorn mouthpiece to make the soprano sound more trombone-like. Would that work/how would it work? I've read some more about flugelhorn mouthpieces and it sounds like they have more of a cornet sized shank-- would I need a cornet to trumpet mouthpiece adapter if I wanted to try it?
:alto:
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Not an answer to your question, I'd recommend the Chanson Crossover mouthpiece.
- walldaja
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Jul 11, 2018
I've used a trumpet mouthpiece in the past. I've used a Stork 2B and a Schilke 18C, both pretty large rims (for trumpet). Did it come with a mouthpiece?
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
I've used a flugelhorn mouthpiece with my Kanstul soprano, it however does not fit my Jupiter soprano. The problem with a trumpet mouthpiece is it will sound like a trumpet, and I did not want to just sound like a bad trumpet-player. You need a deeper mouthpiece to produce a deeper sound, more trombone-like sound. The problem with deeper mouthpieces in a soprano is it will be out of tune. Not only will it be flat it will also be out of tune with itself. I experimented with trumpet mouthpieces before I got to flugelhorn mouthpieces. I went to a shop and choose the largest mouthpiece I could still play up to high f, an octave above this f :tenorclef: :space5: . The problem with the flugelhorn mouthpiece is it does not make it easy to play and I got very tired. I have one recording on my page in the signature where I play soprano with that flugelhorn mouthpiece. It is the quartet "Bellman Epistle No 47" on the start page for soprano, alto tenor and bass. There are a couple of other earlier recordings with a larger ensemble where I use a large trumpet mouthpiece with the Jupiter Soprano. The recordings are made many years ago and since then I've found a barock alto mouthpiece that fits my lips, and that is actually much better. It has the rim close to my trombone mouthpiece. It is a tad on the flat side but the horn is still in tune with itself, it has a deeper sound than a trumpet mouthpiece, and my emboushure is not hurt.
/Tom
/Tom
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I would recommend a [url=https://www.amazon.com/Bach-3439AT-Contra-Alto-Trumpet-Mouthpiece/dp/B008FP09BC]Bach 3439AT contralto trumpet mouthpiece. I've heard a trombone/trumpet doubler use one on trumpet and it sounded shockingly like a real soprano trombone (and not just a glissy trumpet).
Failing that, a Curry TF trumpet mouthpiece might be perfect. It's a trumpet shank, but it models a flugelhorn mouthpiece.
Failing that, a Curry TF trumpet mouthpiece might be perfect. It's a trumpet shank, but it models a flugelhorn mouthpiece.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
Doug actually made me one awhile back... it was intended for an alto sacbut but it works quite well n a friend of mine's Jupiter soprano trombone. It goes to an XT C shank which is a little on the large size.... you can of course use a trumpet mouthpiece too; a deep cup will give you a bit of a darker sound. Depending on why you want to do this, you might consider getting something just made for it which often has better results than using adapters or other tweaks to fit something in a port for which it wasn't designed!
I haven't played my Elliott shank in awhile but my recollection is that it played pretty much in tune until you got really high but that may well have just been me at the time. I mean like, an octave above 4th line C high. If I were buying something from Doug now.... I'd probably go way smaller and forego my 104N rim because that's absurdly large for soprano though it worked pretty well for the sacbut. Perhaps not authentic but that's a totally different discussion.
I've worked with Matt Frost before - http://www.frostcustombrass.net/. He was the only maker at the time that I could find that would do a lexan rim only. Others seem to do the whole cup of a particular material or don't offer lexan rims. That may have changed or I may not have done my due dilligence. At any rate, he does custom stuff. A '1' size is his largest stock though and might well suit your needs paired with something quit deeper and with a more open throat. FWIW... and I never thought I'd say this... but the Monette pieces are a little shorter than other trumpet pieces and have a rather large throat/backbore... so a used Monette might also accomplish what you are after too, or any of the Monette copies (wedge has a Monette copy and I'm pretty sure there are others out there).
I haven't played my Elliott shank in awhile but my recollection is that it played pretty much in tune until you got really high but that may well have just been me at the time. I mean like, an octave above 4th line C high. If I were buying something from Doug now.... I'd probably go way smaller and forego my 104N rim because that's absurdly large for soprano though it worked pretty well for the sacbut. Perhaps not authentic but that's a totally different discussion.
I've worked with Matt Frost before - http://www.frostcustombrass.net/. He was the only maker at the time that I could find that would do a lexan rim only. Others seem to do the whole cup of a particular material or don't offer lexan rims. That may have changed or I may not have done my due dilligence. At any rate, he does custom stuff. A '1' size is his largest stock though and might well suit your needs paired with something quit deeper and with a more open throat. FWIW... and I never thought I'd say this... but the Monette pieces are a little shorter than other trumpet pieces and have a rather large throat/backbore... so a used Monette might also accomplish what you are after too, or any of the Monette copies (wedge has a Monette copy and I'm pretty sure there are others out there).
- brtnats
- Posts: 341
- Joined: Apr 26, 2018
+1 for Chason crossover, UNLESS you’re trying for a mellower alto-type sound. Chason made my soprano easily playable, but also got me to eventually sell it and get a trumpet.
- braymond21
- Posts: 265
- Joined: Mar 18, 2019
You could also try a larger mellophone mouthpiece. I used one for a bit on mine and it gave me more of a trombone-like sound.
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
I just want to update my info about mouthpiece choice. I've found the Wycliff Gordon cross over mouthpiece to be the best pick for me. The flugelhorn mouthpiece I used before was very tiring to play, it gave a deeper sound and the soprano was still in tune but I could never play for longer than 15 minutes, It was to hard.
A large trumpet mouthpiece Schilke 24 was also in my case. The soprano then sounded like a trumpet. It was in tune, but was to hard to play for more than 15 minutes.
I had an alto saqbut mouthpiece for a while. Gave a good sound but the horn was too flat and the overtones were all over the place. Too bad because it was the best sound. Not hard to play, but hard to play in tune.
The Wycliffe Gordon crossover mouthpiece is what I use now. The cup is shallow like a trumpet and the rim is like trombone mouthpiece Bach 11. The sound is more close to a trumpet than a trombone, but it is not like a trumpet mouthpiece.The large rim does something to the sound. It is slight more mellow. I don't get tired now.
/Tom
A large trumpet mouthpiece Schilke 24 was also in my case. The soprano then sounded like a trumpet. It was in tune, but was to hard to play for more than 15 minutes.
I had an alto saqbut mouthpiece for a while. Gave a good sound but the horn was too flat and the overtones were all over the place. Too bad because it was the best sound. Not hard to play, but hard to play in tune.
The Wycliffe Gordon crossover mouthpiece is what I use now. The cup is shallow like a trumpet and the rim is like trombone mouthpiece Bach 11. The sound is more close to a trumpet than a trombone, but it is not like a trumpet mouthpiece.The large rim does something to the sound. It is slight more mellow. I don't get tired now.
/Tom
- MrHCinDE
- Posts: 1039
- Joined: Jul 01, 2018
I recently went down the flugel rabbit hole and leaned that there are at least three different shank sizes. It seems the so-called German shank (approx. 10mm) is pretty close to a trumpet shank. I got a Klier flugel USA 3C mouthpiece with German shank for my rotary flugel and first impressions are very good. Apparently the Klier USA range are based on the Bach Mount Vernon designs. Maybe a flugel mouthpieces with German shank would work well with soprano trombone without an adapter?
- deanmccarty
- Posts: 224
- Joined: May 01, 2018
I use a Schilke 24. Works fine fore me, but I don’t really play it that often.
- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
well the Soprano Trombone is in the same pitch as a Trumpet so you need a Trumpet Mouthpiece, & it's supposed to sound like a Trumpet because it's Cylindrical until the Bell.- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="s11141827"]well the Soprano Trombone is in the same pitch as a Trumpet so you need a Trumpet Mouthpiece, & it's supposed to sound like a Trumpet because it's Cylindrical until the Bell.[/quote]
I would disagree with this. Trombone and bass trumpet are not supposed to sound the same, and I don't think soprano trombone should sound like a trumpet as the default. There is of course musical usefulness for a trumpet that can gliss and there's nothing wrong with using it that way, but I think we can also strive for a mouthpiece that gives the instrument a proper trombone sound and blends beautifully with other trombones, much like how a well-played piccolo trumpet can blend seamlessly with normal trumpets.
So far in my soprano mouthpiece safari I have the following results:
- Normal trumpet mouthpieces: sounds like a trumpet. Very fun to play this way, but not ideal. This one is too hot.
- Bach 9AT alto trumpet mouthpiece: amazing, beefy trombone sound. The issue is it also makes the instrument no easier to play high on than an alto...maybe even a little harder. I suspect this has mostly to do with the oversized shank that barely fits than anything else. This one is too cold.
- Marching mellophone mouthpieces: this one is not "just right", but it's closer. No real loss in range (can play concert high C above the treble clef pretty securely), but sounds noticeably fatter than a normal trumpet mouthpiece. It is still too bright for a classical trombone sound IMO, but I think it's a very good start for playing jazz and commercial stuff on top of small tenors. Hammond 5MP, Benge Mello 6V, and CKB Mello 6 all feel pretty much the same.
- Alto horn mouthpieces: the Denis Wick 2 is way too hard to play on the soprano, moreso than the Bach 9AT. However, the Kelly 3W works very well. Range is still a bit of an issue, but it seems to cap out comfortably at Bb5, which seems about right for a classical soprano trombone.
Things I haven't tried yet, because I don't own them:
- Schilke 24 trumpet mouthpiece (I have high hopes!)
- Curry TF/ACB FX hybrid trumpet/flugel mouthpiece
- German flugelhorn mouthpiece (trumpet shank), such as a Josef Klier or Wick 2FLD
- Chasons hybrid trombone cup/trumpet shank mouthpiece
- Shallower American-style alto horn mouthpiece
Based on the results of what I do have, I think a shallower bowl cup American alto horn mouthpiece will be the ideal solution. Eventually I will do a mouthpiece shootout between all of these so you can hear for yourself.
I would disagree with this. Trombone and bass trumpet are not supposed to sound the same, and I don't think soprano trombone should sound like a trumpet as the default. There is of course musical usefulness for a trumpet that can gliss and there's nothing wrong with using it that way, but I think we can also strive for a mouthpiece that gives the instrument a proper trombone sound and blends beautifully with other trombones, much like how a well-played piccolo trumpet can blend seamlessly with normal trumpets.
So far in my soprano mouthpiece safari I have the following results:
- Normal trumpet mouthpieces: sounds like a trumpet. Very fun to play this way, but not ideal. This one is too hot.
- Bach 9AT alto trumpet mouthpiece: amazing, beefy trombone sound. The issue is it also makes the instrument no easier to play high on than an alto...maybe even a little harder. I suspect this has mostly to do with the oversized shank that barely fits than anything else. This one is too cold.
- Marching mellophone mouthpieces: this one is not "just right", but it's closer. No real loss in range (can play concert high C above the treble clef pretty securely), but sounds noticeably fatter than a normal trumpet mouthpiece. It is still too bright for a classical trombone sound IMO, but I think it's a very good start for playing jazz and commercial stuff on top of small tenors. Hammond 5MP, Benge Mello 6V, and CKB Mello 6 all feel pretty much the same.
- Alto horn mouthpieces: the Denis Wick 2 is way too hard to play on the soprano, moreso than the Bach 9AT. However, the Kelly 3W works very well. Range is still a bit of an issue, but it seems to cap out comfortably at Bb5, which seems about right for a classical soprano trombone.
Things I haven't tried yet, because I don't own them:
- Schilke 24 trumpet mouthpiece (I have high hopes!)
- Curry TF/ACB FX hybrid trumpet/flugel mouthpiece
- German flugelhorn mouthpiece (trumpet shank), such as a Josef Klier or Wick 2FLD
- Chasons hybrid trombone cup/trumpet shank mouthpiece
- Shallower American-style alto horn mouthpiece
Based on the results of what I do have, I think a shallower bowl cup American alto horn mouthpiece will be the ideal solution. Eventually I will do a mouthpiece shootout between all of these so you can hear for yourself.
- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
It's sometimes called a Slide Trumpet & Wycliffe Gordon made a Special Mouthpiece that might work.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="s11141827"]It's sometimes called a Slide Trumpet & Wycliffe Gordon made a Special Mouthpiece that might work.[/quote]
There are actually differences between a slide trumpet and a soprano trombone. We've had this discussion several times both here and on The Trombone Forum.
Similarly, there are differences between a bass trumpet and a "flugabone" (whether you are referring to the Marching Trombone or the small bore baritone horn).
There are actually differences between a slide trumpet and a soprano trombone. We've had this discussion several times both here and on The Trombone Forum.
Similarly, there are differences between a bass trumpet and a "flugabone" (whether you are referring to the Marching Trombone or the small bore baritone horn).
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Soprano trombone = 4.5' Bb slide trombone
Slide trumpet = type of Renaissance natural trumpet with a single slide tube
But yes, people often call the modern instrument a slide trumpet. Just like the baritone vs. euphonium confusion, this is because of early 20th century American brass manufacturer marketing more than anything. Back then they sold "slide trumpets" and "slide cornets", the only difference being the mouthpiece shank. Of course, many sopranos are built with trumpet bells when they probably shouldn't be, but easy parts availability always wins.
[quote="s11141827"]Wycliffe Gordon made a Special Mouthpiece that might work.[/quote]
That's the Chasons hybrid mouthpiece I mentioned in my previous comment.
Slide trumpet = type of Renaissance natural trumpet with a single slide tube
But yes, people often call the modern instrument a slide trumpet. Just like the baritone vs. euphonium confusion, this is because of early 20th century American brass manufacturer marketing more than anything. Back then they sold "slide trumpets" and "slide cornets", the only difference being the mouthpiece shank. Of course, many sopranos are built with trumpet bells when they probably shouldn't be, but easy parts availability always wins.
[quote="s11141827"]Wycliffe Gordon made a Special Mouthpiece that might work.[/quote]
That's the Chasons hybrid mouthpiece I mentioned in my previous comment.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I intend to work on a soprano trombone mouthpiece one of these years, but I have enough to do already.
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
[quote="Doug Elliott"]I intend to work on a soprano trombone mouthpiece one of these years, but I have enough to do already.[/quote]
Let us know, because that will be interesting. I wonder if it is possible to make one that gives a darker, more trombone-like sound or a sound that at least comes close to the sound that is possible with a flugelhorn mouthpiece but with good intonation and ease to reach high C. That would be interesting to me. Since the pandemi I have played with a regular trumpet-mouthpiece and have abandoned all the othgers. The problem is it now sound like a trumpet again.
/Tom
Let us know, because that will be interesting. I wonder if it is possible to make one that gives a darker, more trombone-like sound or a sound that at least comes close to the sound that is possible with a flugelhorn mouthpiece but with good intonation and ease to reach high C. That would be interesting to me. Since the pandemi I have played with a regular trumpet-mouthpiece and have abandoned all the othgers. The problem is it now sound like a trumpet again.
/Tom
- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
How about this guy 
I've used this to play the Posthorn Solo from Mahler's 3rd Symphony on a Soprano Trombone. It's a Special Mouthpiece that's a cross between a Trumpet Mouthpiece & a Flugelhorn Mouthpiece so it's quite a mellow sound.
I've used this to play the Posthorn Solo from Mahler's 3rd Symphony on a Soprano Trombone. It's a Special Mouthpiece that's a cross between a Trumpet Mouthpiece & a Flugelhorn Mouthpiece so it's quite a mellow sound.- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
[quote="Doug Elliott"]I intend to work on a soprano trombone mouthpiece one of these years, but I have enough to do already.[/quote]
How about a Rotary Trumpet Mouthpiece? It could double as a great Soprano Trombone Mouthpiece
because they have a Bigger & Deeper Cup. The Throat of a Soprano Trombone Bell is more like that of a Rotary Trumpet.
How about a Rotary Trumpet Mouthpiece? It could double as a great Soprano Trombone Mouthpiece
because they have a Bigger & Deeper Cup. The Throat of a Soprano Trombone Bell is more like that of a Rotary Trumpet.- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
[quote="s11141827"]<QUOTE author="Doug Elliott" post_id="201902" time="1676155110" user_id="51">
I intend to work on a soprano trombone mouthpiece one of these years, but I have enough to do already.[/quote]
How about a Rotary Trumpet Mouthpiece? It could double as a great Soprano Trombone Mouthpiece because they have a Bigger & Deeper Cup. The Throat of a Soprano Trombone Bell is more like that of a Rotary Trumpet.
</QUOTE>
I have tried one of those (I only own one) and yes that one gives a more mellow sound, but needs to be shortened. Mine is to long so the soprano becomes very flat. I have bad experience from shortening a mouthpiece, it wasn't a good idea last time I did that, just ruined a perfectly good mouthpiece. If someone could use the cup and alter the backbore and make it fit and still have the mellow sound and make it play in tune then that's an option.
/Tom
I intend to work on a soprano trombone mouthpiece one of these years, but I have enough to do already.[/quote]
How about a Rotary Trumpet Mouthpiece? It could double as a great Soprano Trombone Mouthpiece
because they have a Bigger & Deeper Cup. The Throat of a Soprano Trombone Bell is more like that of a Rotary Trumpet.</QUOTE>
I have tried one of those (I only own one) and yes that one gives a more mellow sound, but needs to be shortened. Mine is to long so the soprano becomes very flat. I have bad experience from shortening a mouthpiece, it wasn't a good idea last time I did that, just ruined a perfectly good mouthpiece. If someone could use the cup and alter the backbore and make it fit and still have the mellow sound and make it play in tune then that's an option.
/Tom
- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
OK the Official Soprano Trombone Mouthpiece will basically be a Rotary Trumpet Mouthpiece made slightly shorter. Usually a Soprano Trombone takes a Trumpet Mouthpiece & because it uses a Slide instead of Valves it doesn't sound quite as stuffy as a Trumpet on those low notes but more open & free sounding:<YOUTUBE id="xzbghp5G7hk">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzbghp5G7hk</YOUTUBE>
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
[quote="s11141827"]OK the Official Soprano Trombone Mouthpiece will basically be a Rotary Trumpet Mouthpiece made slightly shorter. Usually a Soprano Trombone takes a Trumpet Mouthpiece & because it uses a Slide instead of Valves it doesn't sound quite as stuffy as a Trumpet on those low notes but more open & free sounding:<YOUTUBE id="xzbghp5G7hk">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzbghp5G7hk</YOUTUBE>[/quote]
Great!!!! That's a real good playing and a very good sound. Did sound more mellow and I definitely want one if ever available, as I said my mouthpiece makes my soprano too flat but maybe there are different models of Rotary Trumpet Mouthpieces, with different lengths already. I have to investigate that path. To my ears that did sound in tune, but I have not perfect pich but usually I can have somewhat of an awkward feeling if something is in tune but at different pitch.... but he did not use first position, or did he?
/Tom
Great!!!! That's a real good playing and a very good sound. Did sound more mellow and I definitely want one if ever available, as I said my mouthpiece makes my soprano too flat but maybe there are different models of Rotary Trumpet Mouthpieces, with different lengths already. I have to investigate that path. To my ears that did sound in tune, but I have not perfect pich but usually I can have somewhat of an awkward feeling if something is in tune but at different pitch.... but he did not use first position, or did he?
/Tom
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
I personally would want more brilliance to the sound, and shimmer. I don't think that setup will put any trumpeters out of a job.
Nothing against the player (who is incredible! James Nova - Duh!). That instrument just ain't where it's at. The closest thing I've heard to an interesting sounding slide trumpet is the Holton Firebird. As played by a trumpeter.
Nothing against the player (who is incredible! James Nova - Duh!). That instrument just ain't where it's at. The closest thing I've heard to an interesting sounding slide trumpet is the Holton Firebird. As played by a trumpeter.
- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
I guess the mouthpiece he used was either a Trumpet mouthpiece w/ a Shorter Shank or this Soprano Trombone was designed specifically for a Standard Shank Trumpet Mouthpiece. Keep in mind that some Soprano Trombones are designed to take regular Shank Trumpet Mouthpieces because they often do that by making the lead pipe a bit shorter. I even have this little guy 
it's a Carol Brass Mini Trombone, & the mouthpiece that's included is a Special Slim 7C Mouthpiece which is Tapered.
it's a Carol Brass Mini Trombone, & the mouthpiece that's included is a Special Slim 7C Mouthpiece which is Tapered.- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="s11141827"]I guess the mouthpiece he used was either a Trumpet mouthpiece w/ a Shorter Shank or this Soprano Trombone was designed specifically for a Standard Shank Trumpet Mouthpiece. Keep in mind that some Soprano Trombones are designed to take regular Shank Trumpet Mouthpieces because they often do that by making the lead pipe a bit shorter. I even have this little guy it's a Carol Brass Mini Trombone, & the mouthpiece that's included is a Special Slim 7C Mouthpiece which is Tapered.[/quote]
Who, Nova (from your vid)?
No he uses a Greg Black "cheater" mouthpiece, with a tenor trombone width rim.
it's a Carol Brass Mini Trombone, & the mouthpiece that's included is a Special Slim 7C Mouthpiece which is Tapered.[/quote]Who, Nova (from your vid)?
No he uses a Greg Black "cheater" mouthpiece, with a tenor trombone width rim.
- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
[quote="harrisonreed"]<QUOTE author="s11141827" post_id="202420" time="1676580231" user_id="16268">
I guess the mouthpiece he used was either a Trumpet mouthpiece w/ a Shorter Shank or this Soprano Trombone was designed specifically for a Standard Shank Trumpet Mouthpiece. Keep in mind that some Soprano Trombones are designed to take regular Shank Trumpet Mouthpieces because they often do that by making the lead pipe a bit shorter. I even have this little guy it's a Carol Brass Mini Trombone, & the mouthpiece that's included is a Special Slim 7C Mouthpiece which is Tapered.[/quote]
Who, Nova (from your vid)?
No he uses a Greg Black "cheater" mouthpiece, with a tenor trombone width rim.
</QUOTE>
It's a copy of the Wycliffe Gordon Mouthpiece, & he went w/ that because he found that a Regular Trumpet mouthpiece wasn't big enough for him.
The lead pipe is made shorter to accommodate the longer shank of the trumpet mouthpiece
I guess the mouthpiece he used was either a Trumpet mouthpiece w/ a Shorter Shank or this Soprano Trombone was designed specifically for a Standard Shank Trumpet Mouthpiece. Keep in mind that some Soprano Trombones are designed to take regular Shank Trumpet Mouthpieces because they often do that by making the lead pipe a bit shorter. I even have this little guy
it's a Carol Brass Mini Trombone, & the mouthpiece that's included is a Special Slim 7C Mouthpiece which is Tapered.[/quote]Who, Nova (from your vid)?
No he uses a Greg Black "cheater" mouthpiece, with a tenor trombone width rim.
</QUOTE>
It's a copy of the Wycliffe Gordon Mouthpiece, & he went w/ that because he found that a Regular Trumpet mouthpiece wasn't big enough for him.
The lead pipe is made shorter to accommodate the longer shank of the trumpet mouthpiece
- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
<YOUTUBE id="W-1dPzwbeb0">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-1dPzwbeb0</YOUTUBE> Here's American in Paris played on a Soprano Trombone w/ a Trumpet Mouthpiece. Quite a Bluesy sound.
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
Jim Nova uses a custom Greg Black that has a #3 rim (about 104 in Doug Elliott sizes). I believe his Soprano is an (unaltered) Miraphone gold brass.
You can find this info on the Greg Black site (maybe Shires too). He sounds fantastic, but that set-up isn't for everyone, and let's face it, not everyone can figure out a way to play tenor and soprano trombone - lucky for us, it's not really a requirement.
Also, the Chanson's mouthpiece was first designed with about a 12C rim, going to a very shallow cup and with screw shanks that could fit trumpet, cornet, flugelhorn and french horn. The Wycliff model came later and they made it 1-piece (trumpet shank), a bit heavier blank, and with a 6.5 rim like he used on tenor. They still make the two piece version, and I think Pickett is making some version of the Wycliff since he has custom models for tenor that they make as well.
I have a Chanson's that I have used to fool around on a Jupiter soprano. It works, more or less, but I don't sound anything like Nova, and have made piece with the fact that I probably never will!
Jim Scott
You can find this info on the Greg Black site (maybe Shires too). He sounds fantastic, but that set-up isn't for everyone, and let's face it, not everyone can figure out a way to play tenor and soprano trombone - lucky for us, it's not really a requirement.
Also, the Chanson's mouthpiece was first designed with about a 12C rim, going to a very shallow cup and with screw shanks that could fit trumpet, cornet, flugelhorn and french horn. The Wycliff model came later and they made it 1-piece (trumpet shank), a bit heavier blank, and with a 6.5 rim like he used on tenor. They still make the two piece version, and I think Pickett is making some version of the Wycliff since he has custom models for tenor that they make as well.
I have a Chanson's that I have used to fool around on a Jupiter soprano. It works, more or less, but I don't sound anything like Nova, and have made piece with the fact that I probably never will!
Jim Scott
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="s11141827"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="202434" time="1676584899" user_id="3642">
Who, Nova (from your vid)?
No he uses a Greg Black "cheater" mouthpiece, with a tenor trombone width rim.[/quote]
It's a copy of the Wycliffe Gordon Mouthpiece, & he went w/ that because he found that a Regular Trumpet mouthpiece wasn't big enough for him.
The lead pipe is made shorter to accommodate the longer shank of the trumpet mouthpiece
</QUOTE>
<ATTACHMENT filename="Screenshot_20230217-081748.png" index="0">[attachment=0]Screenshot_20230217-081748.png</ATTACHMENT>
Okay, let's move to the next slide
Who, Nova (from your vid)?
No he uses a Greg Black "cheater" mouthpiece, with a tenor trombone width rim.[/quote]
It's a copy of the Wycliffe Gordon Mouthpiece, & he went w/ that because he found that a Regular Trumpet mouthpiece wasn't big enough for him.
The lead pipe is made shorter to accommodate the longer shank of the trumpet mouthpiece
</QUOTE>
<ATTACHMENT filename="Screenshot_20230217-081748.png" index="0">
Okay, let's move to the next slide
- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
Oh yeah there is an official Soprano Trombone Mouthpiece the Jim Nova 3G Soprano Trombone Mouthpiece which is great for Trombonists. Trumpetists on the other hand will enjoy using a Trumpet Mouthpiece. It speaks the same pitch as a Trumpet, & yes that mouthpiece can be used on Trumpets too if you want a different sound.
- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
A 7-piece Hybrid Crossover Kit: 3 Rims + 4 Backbores will give you more options.
- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
The Greg Black James Nova 3G Soprano Trombone Mouthpiece kinda reacts & sounds like a Wycliffe Wybrid Mouthpiece when put on a Soprano Trombone or even so a Trumpet. Great for that Wycliffe Gordon vibe. Soprano Trombone is a useful instrument & it takes Trumpet Shank Mouthpieces so, use what you love.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
<ATTACHMENT filename="calculating-puzzled.gif" index="0">[attachment=0]calculating-puzzled.gif</ATTACHMENT>
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
I've been meaning to make my way up there since I live near Pittsburgh but I haven't gotten around to it. I can't imagine it's THAT much better than the Wycliffe Gordon piece which I definitely did not jive with.
- Drombone
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Jul 20, 2021
What about an Tenor (Alto in USA) horn mp? deeper cup than flugel or trumpet, the shank is the same ( I think - certainly fits my soprano) and the rim is bigger which suits trombone mouths?
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Drombone"]What about an Tenor (Alto in USA) horn mp? deeper cup than flugel or trumpet, the shank is the same ( I think - certainly fits my soprano) and the rim is bigger which suits trombone mouths?[/quote]
From my last comment:
From my last comment:
Alto horn mouthpieces: the Denis Wick 2 is way too hard to play on the soprano, moreso than the Bach 9AT. However, the Kelly 3W works very well. Range is still a bit of an issue, but it seems to cap out comfortably at Bb5, which seems about right for a classical soprano trombone.
[...]
Based on the results of what I do have, I think a shallower bowl cup American alto horn mouthpiece will be the ideal solution. Eventually I will do a mouthpiece shootout between all of these so you can hear for yourself.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Finetales"]Eventually I will do a mouthpiece shootout between all of these so you can hear for yourself.[/quote]
When that time comes, drop me line and I'll loan you one of my replica Olds F Alto mouthpieces to add to the mix. It's a little bigger than a typical American alto horn mouthpiece.
When that time comes, drop me line and I'll loan you one of my replica Olds F Alto mouthpieces to add to the mix. It's a little bigger than a typical American alto horn mouthpiece.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I have an original Olds F mouthpiece. I tried it on the Minnick soprano I had at the time. The sound was good but no endurance.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Doug Elliott"]I have an original Olds F mouthpiece. I tried it on the Minnick soprano I had at the time. The sound was good but no endurance.[/quote]
I expect it would be the soprano trombone equivalent of a small-shank 1.5G.
Given the wide variation in the sound people want/expect from a soprano trombone (trumpety vs. tromboney and everything in between), I can't see there being much if any consensus as to an appropriate mouthpiece.
I expect it would be the soprano trombone equivalent of a small-shank 1.5G.
Given the wide variation in the sound people want/expect from a soprano trombone (trumpety vs. tromboney and everything in between), I can't see there being much if any consensus as to an appropriate mouthpiece.
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Being as bass trumpet sounds pretty different (though related) from a tenor trombone, I don't think it's unreasonable to claim that a soprano trombone should sound pretty different (though related) from a trumpet. We already know how to get a soprano trombone to sound like a trumpet, use a trumpet mouthpiece! It's that other thing that's the tricky part. Making it more difficult is that there pretty much aren't any professional soprano trombonists to draw a sound concept from, so you're on your own. But I think nailing down mouthpiece types that play nice with the instrument would be good progress overall.
In terms of classical playing, this is about all we have: <YOUTUBE id="FPm0CHpDgMw">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPm0CHpDgMw</YOUTUBE>
That's done on a custom large bore/large bell Thein soprano using a deep mouthpiece, so I think we could safely put this at the dark end of the spectrum.
In terms of classical playing, this is about all we have: <YOUTUBE id="FPm0CHpDgMw">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPm0CHpDgMw</YOUTUBE>
That's done on a custom large bore/large bell Thein soprano using a deep mouthpiece, so I think we could safely put this at the dark end of the spectrum.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Finetales"]Being as bass trumpet sounds pretty different (though related) from a tenor trombone,[/quote]
Ah, bass trumpet. Yet another instrument that generates a spirited debate regarding how it should sound (and therefore what constitutes an appropriate mouthpiece).
Ah, bass trumpet. Yet another instrument that generates a spirited debate regarding how it should sound (and therefore what constitutes an appropriate mouthpiece).
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Does it? I thought it was pretty universally accepted that it needs a very small or shallow mouthpiece and to have a bright, trumpety sound. The issue with bass trumpet is more that there are two distinct species, the narrow bore orchestral kind and the wide bore beer hall kind.
- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
Bass Trumpets would typically use a Trombone Mouthpiece & it's a Small Bore mouthpiece. We have alot more Mouthpiece options these days so use what you love.
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Here's an update for everyone.
[quote="Finetales"]Based on the results of what I do have, I think a shallower bowl cup American alto horn mouthpiece will be the ideal solution. Eventually I will do a mouthpiece shootout between all of these so you can hear for yourself.[/quote]
So far, it looks like this hypothesis I made earlier has been the most correct out of the many options I've tried. I recently snagged a Holton 55 alto horn mouthpiece on eBay for cheap, and I think it's pretty close to perfect.[url=https://drive.google.com/file/d/1t3pAKAgTJi76Hk1yEetRJNMx59nCpnCg/view?usp=sharing]Here's a clip, if you'd like to hear for yourself.
It has a nice fat tromboney sound like some of the other bigger options I've tried, but I can still play comfortably up to high Bb and it works nicely all over the horn (unlike any of those others). It seems like between this Holton alto horn piece for a dark classical sound and one of my mellophone mouthpieces for a brighter jazz/commercial sound (that still doesn't sound like a trumpet), I have a setup I'm happy with for both sound and playability.
I also got a Schilke 24 trumpet mouthpiece (almost as big as a small alto horn mouthpiece or the Bach 9AT alto trumpet mouthpiece, for those unaware) and tried that too. It did not perform well like I thought it would...hard to play like the British tenor horn mouthpieces or Bach 9AT, but with a less beefy sound. But it works very well getting a fat alto trumpet sound on my Dynasty G soprano bugle, so I'm keeping it with that.
The only major option I have left to try is a German flugelhorn mouthpiece. There are multiple other instruments I have that I think would also benefit from that kind of mouthpiece, so I'll surely get one eventually. But until then, I'm pretty confident in saying that I've found a solid solution to the soprano trombone mouthpiece conundrum. Time to start using it!
If I were to design a custom-made soprano trombone mouthpiece, I think I'd give it an inner diameter in the 18-19mm range, with a standard trombone-like medium depth bowl cup scaled down to match and a short shank (like marching mellophone mouthpieces, rather than trumpet). But I'll leave that up to the masters like Doug.
(On a less related note, I was happy to learn that the G slide for the valve on my soprano trombone can be pulled to Gb, so it now matches the second valve on my bass trombone. I worked well with G for a while, and it was certainly better than the other 3 options (A, Ab, F), but my muscle memory kept kicking in to make me not go far enough out for the valve positions. So I pulled the slide to match my bass trombone second valve tuning (sharp Gb) and am much happier.)
[quote="Finetales"]Based on the results of what I do have, I think a shallower bowl cup American alto horn mouthpiece will be the ideal solution. Eventually I will do a mouthpiece shootout between all of these so you can hear for yourself.[/quote]
So far, it looks like this hypothesis I made earlier has been the most correct out of the many options I've tried. I recently snagged a Holton 55 alto horn mouthpiece on eBay for cheap, and I think it's pretty close to perfect.
It has a nice fat tromboney sound like some of the other bigger options I've tried, but I can still play comfortably up to high Bb and it works nicely all over the horn (unlike any of those others). It seems like between this Holton alto horn piece for a dark classical sound and one of my mellophone mouthpieces for a brighter jazz/commercial sound (that still doesn't sound like a trumpet), I have a setup I'm happy with for both sound and playability.
I also got a Schilke 24 trumpet mouthpiece (almost as big as a small alto horn mouthpiece or the Bach 9AT alto trumpet mouthpiece, for those unaware) and tried that too. It did not perform well like I thought it would...hard to play like the British tenor horn mouthpieces or Bach 9AT, but with a less beefy sound. But it works very well getting a fat alto trumpet sound on my Dynasty G soprano bugle, so I'm keeping it with that.
The only major option I have left to try is a German flugelhorn mouthpiece. There are multiple other instruments I have that I think would also benefit from that kind of mouthpiece, so I'll surely get one eventually. But until then, I'm pretty confident in saying that I've found a solid solution to the soprano trombone mouthpiece conundrum. Time to start using it!
If I were to design a custom-made soprano trombone mouthpiece, I think I'd give it an inner diameter in the 18-19mm range, with a standard trombone-like medium depth bowl cup scaled down to match and a short shank (like marching mellophone mouthpieces, rather than trumpet). But I'll leave that up to the masters like Doug.
(On a less related note, I was happy to learn that the G slide for the valve on my soprano trombone can be pulled to Gb, so it now matches the second valve on my bass trombone. I worked well with G for a while, and it was certainly better than the other 3 options (A, Ab, F), but my muscle memory kept kicking in to make me not go far enough out for the valve positions. So I pulled the slide to match my bass trombone second valve tuning (sharp Gb) and am much happier.)
- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
Trombones are mostly Cylindrical like Trumpets so that means Soprano Trombones would use the same mouthpiece. I don't know what happened here but, use what you like.
- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
Soprano Trombones are in the same register as Trumpets so you can use Trumpet Mouthpieces. Their Bore is Cylindrical & that seems to make sense.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
Fwiw, the Greg Black / Jim Nova soprano piece works… surprisingly well. If you go too high, it’s a little flat but it’s vastly better than the other hybrid pieces I’ve tried.
- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
[quote="Matt K"]Fwiw, the Greg Black / Jim Nova soprano piece works… surprisingly well. If you go too high, it’s a little flat but it’s vastly better than the other hybrid pieces I’ve tried.[/quote]
Yes but YMMV & also some Valve Trombones play in tune best w/ a Standard Trumpet Mouthpiece. They don't sound as Stuffy as Valved Trumpets do, they have a more open sound w/ more expressiveness.
Yes but YMMV & also some Valve Trombones play in tune best w/ a Standard Trumpet Mouthpiece. They don't sound as Stuffy as Valved Trumpets do, they have a more open sound w/ more expressiveness.
- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
Well for me I use a Trumpet Mouthpiece & it sounds quite melodic.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Are you a robot?
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]Are you a robot?[/quote]
Or merely a troll taking up space on TromboneChat with useless comments? :idk:
Or merely a troll taking up space on TromboneChat with useless comments? :idk:
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
[quote="s11141827"]<QUOTE author="Matt K" post_id="213543" time="1687745621" user_id="48">
Fwiw, the Greg Black / Jim Nova soprano piece works… surprisingly well. If you go too high, it’s a little flat but it’s vastly better than the other hybrid pieces I’ve tried.[/quote]
Yes but YMMV & also some Valve Trombones play in tune best w/ a Standard Trumpet Mouthpiece. They don't sound as Stuffy as Valved Trumpets do, they have a more open sound w/ more expressiveness.
</QUOTE>
I do not follow Is this a funny guy? This post makes no sense to me. :idk:
Fwiw, the Greg Black / Jim Nova soprano piece works… surprisingly well. If you go too high, it’s a little flat but it’s vastly better than the other hybrid pieces I’ve tried.[/quote]
Yes but YMMV & also some Valve Trombones play in tune best w/ a Standard Trumpet Mouthpiece. They don't sound as Stuffy as Valved Trumpets do, they have a more open sound w/ more expressiveness.
</QUOTE>
I do not follow Is this a funny guy? This post makes no sense to me. :idk:
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]Are you a robot?[/quote]
I was going to ask "are you ok?" but this works too.
I was going to ask "are you ok?" but this works too.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="imsevimse"]<QUOTE author="s11141827" post_id="213548" time="1687779030" user_id="16268">
Yes but YMMV & also some Valve Trombones play in tune best w/ a Standard Trumpet Mouthpiece. They don't sound as Stuffy as Valved Trumpets do, they have a more open sound w/ more expressiveness.[/quote]
I do not follow Is this a funny guy? This post makes no sense to me. :idk:
</QUOTE>
The same account was posting to a thread about valve trombones at around the same time.
Yes but YMMV & also some Valve Trombones play in tune best w/ a Standard Trumpet Mouthpiece. They don't sound as Stuffy as Valved Trumpets do, they have a more open sound w/ more expressiveness.[/quote]
I do not follow Is this a funny guy? This post makes no sense to me. :idk:
</QUOTE>
The same account was posting to a thread about valve trombones at around the same time.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="JohnL"]The same account was posting to a thread about valve trombones at around the same time.[/quote]
And it's all drivel!
And it's all drivel!
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="JohnL" post_id="213571" time="1687797465" user_id="119">
The same account was posting to a thread about valve trombones at around the same time.[/quote]
And it's all drivel!
</QUOTE>
You mean you DON'T see tons of marching bands using Kanstul flugabones???
The same account was posting to a thread about valve trombones at around the same time.[/quote]
And it's all drivel!
</QUOTE>
You mean you DON'T see tons of marching bands using Kanstul flugabones???
- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
[quote="Finetales"]<QUOTE author="Posaunus" post_id="213573" time="1687797610" user_id="158">
And it's all drivel![/quote]
You mean you DON'T see tons of marching bands using Kanstul flugabones???
</QUOTE>
Actually I'm a Musician
And it's all drivel![/quote]
You mean you DON'T see tons of marching bands using Kanstul flugabones???
</QUOTE>
Actually I'm a Musician
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="s11141827"]Actually I'm a Musician[/quote]
Oh really?
Please tell us more about yourself, where you live, your educational / experiential music background, what sort of trombones you play, what groups you play in, ...
And why you persist in posting such drivel.
Oh really?
Please tell us more about yourself, where you live, your educational / experiential music background, what sort of trombones you play, what groups you play in, ...
And why you persist in posting such drivel.
- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="s11141827" post_id="213704" time="1687909931" user_id="16268">
Actually I'm a Musician[/quote]
Oh really?
Please tell us more about yourself, where you live, your educational / experiential music background, what sort of trombones you play, what groups you play in, ...
And why you persist in posting such drivel.
</QUOTE>
Jax Florida 32223 USA. I play a variety of instruments one of them is the Mini Valve Trombone.
Actually I'm a Musician[/quote]
Oh really?
Please tell us more about yourself, where you live, your educational / experiential music background, what sort of trombones you play, what groups you play in, ...
And why you persist in posting such drivel.
</QUOTE>
Jax Florida 32223 USA. I play a variety of instruments one of them is the Mini Valve Trombone.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
So you are a 19-year old "musician" (who plays the soprano trumpet and mini valve trombone, and has figured out how to search the Internet for little factoids), and now want to share your vast expertise with the trombone world, just in case we need your help. You were even able to find Steve Norsworthy's soprano trombone YouTube video. (Do you know Steve?)
Could you do us the pleasure of posting a video of your playing (trombone or others of your variety of instruments)?
Thanks!
Could you do us the pleasure of posting a video of your playing (trombone or others of your variety of instruments)?
Thanks!
- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
I got this guy:<YOUTUBE id="X0Tq8PKrPXo">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0Tq8PKrPXo</YOUTUBE>
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Mods,
It's long past time to pull the handle and flush away this immature troll.
Please.
It's long past time to pull the handle and flush away this immature troll.
Please.
- s11141827
- Posts: 35
- Joined: Feb 08, 2023
[quote="Posaunus"]Mods,
It's long past time to pull the handle and flush away this immature troll.
Please.[/quote]
No wait I play Hurdy Gurdy
It's long past time to pull the handle and flush away this immature troll.
Please.[/quote]
No wait I play Hurdy Gurdy