Ugh... the search continues. Matching with a King 3B
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Hey all. I play a 3B at work. It's a great horn and does it all, but I'm still trying to find something that really jives with it. I need to be able to play from low E to high C (yes, all those notes) and have it feel good throughout a whole day... Nothing crazy! :pant:
I had been using a Bach 5 up until the last few days. It's really good in some ways, but it was choking off my high register something fierce with the small throat, and the sound wasn't quite large enough on the 3rd part I'm usually on.
I've switched to a stock '90s Bach 6 1/2AL (huge surprise to me) which is a good match in a lot of ways, but also doesn't have the control in the low register like the 5 and is quite the beater example anyway. This is what I'll be using in the meantime.
I'm trying to stick with that size rim or larger, since I play bass the other half of the time and I play a 3 size on large tenor. The really small stuff doesn't really work for me.
Just for reference, I have 5 Yamaha 48s (nope), Wick 6BS (the worst choice of all), King 7MD (throat is way too small), another Bach 5 (a little better but not a lot), Bach 3 (best sound of all, but not the easiest to play), and some stuff that is just too big like a Schilke 51 and small shank 3G. I also have a Corp 6 1/2AL that is probably perfect but is in paperweight mode. It's missing half the plating!
Any suggestions? Obviously there's the DE route, but maybe there's something stock and cheaper out there that I haven't considered.
I had been using a Bach 5 up until the last few days. It's really good in some ways, but it was choking off my high register something fierce with the small throat, and the sound wasn't quite large enough on the 3rd part I'm usually on.
I've switched to a stock '90s Bach 6 1/2AL (huge surprise to me) which is a good match in a lot of ways, but also doesn't have the control in the low register like the 5 and is quite the beater example anyway. This is what I'll be using in the meantime.
I'm trying to stick with that size rim or larger, since I play bass the other half of the time and I play a 3 size on large tenor. The really small stuff doesn't really work for me.
Just for reference, I have 5 Yamaha 48s (nope), Wick 6BS (the worst choice of all), King 7MD (throat is way too small), another Bach 5 (a little better but not a lot), Bach 3 (best sound of all, but not the easiest to play), and some stuff that is just too big like a Schilke 51 and small shank 3G. I also have a Corp 6 1/2AL that is probably perfect but is in paperweight mode. It's missing half the plating!
Any suggestions? Obviously there's the DE route, but maybe there's something stock and cheaper out there that I haven't considered.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Obviously
- Conn100HGuy
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Oct 22, 2018
Try a Wedge 5GS. You'll be secure throughout your range and you'll love its openness and full sound.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
You're a bass player, right? Get a Doug Elliott XT106/C+ cup/D3 shank, and get on with living a great life.
That setup is able to play from F1 to F5 (minus B1) on a 3BF.
That setup is able to play from F1 to F5 (minus B1) on a 3BF.
- Rusty
- Posts: 470
- Joined: Jun 01, 2018
I’d suggest a DE setup of LT100/C+/D3 shank for a .508 horn. Fat low range and solid up top. I’ve felt going bigger and you start to lose the characteristic sound of a small bore horn, and playing lead is just too much work
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
I have an LB110/LB D/D3 combo that actually works really well. I've been sitting a lot of bass and 3rd bone lately so I have my bass chops on... so I've been using that piece for the 3rd parts for the last couple of weeks and I actually am starting to prefer it to my normal XT104N/XT C/C3 combination... It's definitely worth considering. I originally got it to practice my LB rim size with in my apartment because I dont' like the old silent brass but that's all that's available for bass... so I'd stick this on a small bore and get facetime in. But it turns out it's a substantially more useful tool than that. High Cs are no problem but if I had to live in treble clef for 2+ hours, I'd probably switch back to the XT104 setup.
- ExZacLee
- Posts: 153
- Joined: May 09, 2018
A couple things (feel free to disregard)
You mentioned the small throat choking off your high range. This is an issue I had for years playing a 6.5/3B (and 6.5/2B) combination. Range stopped dead at Db above high C. I found 3 fixes for that particular problem - one was a Monette TS6 (HUGE throat compared to stock piece offerings - only issue was I had to play it the way it wanted to be played most of the time) another was a stork with a 3-sized rim and really open throat (chop eater, cup was too big, killed my endurance.) and the 3rd was a Doug, which I've been so happy with I'm not going back. The Doug has a comfy rim, a very well balanced cup and importantly, a good open throat.
Those small throats are problematic on small horns for certain players - I reckon you and I very likely have very similar chops (mayhap, mayhap not.) I've seen that in some students - with some, a larger throat really opens up the high register. With some, just the opposite. I tell them to call Doug, he fixes those things.
There aren't a whole lot of small bore mpcs with large throats - the Monette and Stork I mentioned above, I think the Ferguson pieces if I remember right. Not too many. I know people who have bored out the throats of mouthpieces - if you go that route, get a bunch that you like because it's easy to go too far, and usually takes a few goes to get it right. Maybe track down a bunch of Faxx pieces (I prefer them to the Bachs and they're cheaper).
I've been seeing you on here (well, TTF and now here) for awhile - you seem to be quite serious with your playing :biggrin: . Doug's pieces are higher than stock offerings, but I think they're worth it: look at it as an investment - how much was school? How much are you going to spend on a bunch of mouthpieces that don't work? Was I a skeptic? Yes - not that I didn't trust Doug, but I just didn't think that "magic bullets" exist. It's my problem, equipment won't fix it, yada yada yada... I spent 20 years making 6.5 and 5 sized pieces work. I got with Doug and I don't even worry about that anymore. Just bought piece number 2 for my big horn, and will be buying copies of what I use when funds allow. I used to spend about $500 or so a year on pieces - got a whole box of 'em I'm selling. I haven't bought one other piece since I switched. I don't need 'em.
Do the Dougie.
You mentioned the small throat choking off your high range. This is an issue I had for years playing a 6.5/3B (and 6.5/2B) combination. Range stopped dead at Db above high C. I found 3 fixes for that particular problem - one was a Monette TS6 (HUGE throat compared to stock piece offerings - only issue was I had to play it the way it wanted to be played most of the time) another was a stork with a 3-sized rim and really open throat (chop eater, cup was too big, killed my endurance.) and the 3rd was a Doug, which I've been so happy with I'm not going back. The Doug has a comfy rim, a very well balanced cup and importantly, a good open throat.
Those small throats are problematic on small horns for certain players - I reckon you and I very likely have very similar chops (mayhap, mayhap not.) I've seen that in some students - with some, a larger throat really opens up the high register. With some, just the opposite. I tell them to call Doug, he fixes those things.
There aren't a whole lot of small bore mpcs with large throats - the Monette and Stork I mentioned above, I think the Ferguson pieces if I remember right. Not too many. I know people who have bored out the throats of mouthpieces - if you go that route, get a bunch that you like because it's easy to go too far, and usually takes a few goes to get it right. Maybe track down a bunch of Faxx pieces (I prefer them to the Bachs and they're cheaper).
I've been seeing you on here (well, TTF and now here) for awhile - you seem to be quite serious with your playing :biggrin: . Doug's pieces are higher than stock offerings, but I think they're worth it: look at it as an investment - how much was school? How much are you going to spend on a bunch of mouthpieces that don't work? Was I a skeptic? Yes - not that I didn't trust Doug, but I just didn't think that "magic bullets" exist. It's my problem, equipment won't fix it, yada yada yada... I spent 20 years making 6.5 and 5 sized pieces work. I got with Doug and I don't even worry about that anymore. Just bought piece number 2 for my big horn, and will be buying copies of what I use when funds allow. I used to spend about $500 or so a year on pieces - got a whole box of 'em I'm selling. I haven't bought one other piece since I switched. I don't need 'em.
Do the Dougie.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
You still coming down to Mouse Country on a regular basis? I've got a recent production Bach 5GS you're welcome to try.
- Mv2541
- Posts: 562
- Joined: Mar 29, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]You're a bass player, right? Get a Doug Elliott XT106/C+ cup/D3 shank, and get on with living a great life.
That setup is able to play from F1 to F5 (minus B1) on a 3BF.[/quote]
Even though I play a 106 size on large tenor, the 105 works better on small horns for me in every way. Also if you are used to bass you might like the Narrow rims. Food for thought-
That setup is able to play from F1 to F5 (minus B1) on a 3BF.[/quote]
Even though I play a 106 size on large tenor, the 105 works better on small horns for me in every way. Also if you are used to bass you might like the Narrow rims. Food for thought-
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Rim aside, the C, C+, D cup paired with the proper shank is the way to go here.
- Mv2541
- Posts: 562
- Joined: Mar 29, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]Rim aside, the C, C+, D cup paired with the proper shank is the way to go here.[/quote]
Can't argue this ^^^
Can't argue this ^^^
- mrdeacon
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: May 08, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]You're a bass player, right? Get a Doug Elliott XT106/C+ cup/D3 shank, and get on with living a great life.
That setup is able to play from F1 to F5 (minus B1) on a 3BF.[/quote]
Depending on how big of a rim Burgerbob wants a 102 or 103 rim might be a better fit. 4g and 3g sized rim respectively.
Burgerbob the next time I see you, you need to try out my XT103, C+, D2 setup. I think the last time I saw you I had an XT106, D cup, D4 setup... I can't remember if you tried it or not.
My current setup will give you a good idea of how Doug's small stuff works. It's a good doubling setup. LT setup might work depending on what you want out of the piece but knowing you I think the XT C+ setup would fit the bill.
Seriously check out Doug's C+ cup. It's in between like a 7C and a no letter Bach. Not too small but not too big either. Follow whatever Doug recommends for the shank. The D2 shank is a perfect fit for the R1 I have.
Only other options I can think of... are custom ordering a Greg Black or Bob Reeves setup. Both good options but I think they would both be more expensive than Doug and you may or may not like them.
Or... have you tried a Bach 6 3/4s yet? A couple cats in LA swear by them.
That setup is able to play from F1 to F5 (minus B1) on a 3BF.[/quote]
Depending on how big of a rim Burgerbob wants a 102 or 103 rim might be a better fit. 4g and 3g sized rim respectively.
Burgerbob the next time I see you, you need to try out my XT103, C+, D2 setup. I think the last time I saw you I had an XT106, D cup, D4 setup... I can't remember if you tried it or not.
My current setup will give you a good idea of how Doug's small stuff works. It's a good doubling setup. LT setup might work depending on what you want out of the piece but knowing you I think the XT C+ setup would fit the bill.
Seriously check out Doug's C+ cup. It's in between like a 7C and a no letter Bach. Not too small but not too big either. Follow whatever Doug recommends for the shank. The D2 shank is a perfect fit for the R1 I have.
Only other options I can think of... are custom ordering a Greg Black or Bob Reeves setup. Both good options but I think they would both be more expensive than Doug and you may or may not like them.
Or... have you tried a Bach 6 3/4s yet? A couple cats in LA swear by them.
- PaulT
- Posts: 383
- Joined: Jul 18, 2018
I spent a lot of time with the Yamaha 48. A month ago, I tried the Yamaha 51C4. It was more open top and bottom. I expected the bottom to be more open, the more open and pure sounding top I didn't. But it was. For me.
I have a Bach 6.5 AL and a Bach 5G. They work fine and are industry standards, but every time I pull them out of the drawer for an A/B play, they go back in fairly quickly. To my ear, both are just a little blah.
- one point in Yamaha's favor, you are only out $40 for a mouthpiece that is made as well any.
I have a Bach 6.5 AL and a Bach 5G. They work fine and are industry standards, but every time I pull them out of the drawer for an A/B play, they go back in fairly quickly. To my ear, both are just a little blah.
- one point in Yamaha's favor, you are only out $40 for a mouthpiece that is made as well any.
- PaulT
- Posts: 383
- Joined: Jul 18, 2018
(Given what I think I know of your seriousness and devotion to all things trombone, taking the Elliot plunge does seem like something you should consider and would enjoy doing. But, if you happen to see a 51C4 lying about, and they are pretty common, I imagine, it might be worth a whirl for fun.)
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
He's already used DE setups on bass in his videos
- davebb
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Disclaimer : - I'm at nowhere near the level of playing capability as Burgerbob, but thought this might be useful...
Most of my playing is large bore tenor using a Bach 3G.
I also have a King 3B+/F and I had much the same frustrations with a 6-1/2al in the lower register and with flexibility in general. I got a Bach 4 which I'm very happy with in terms of resolving the low range issues and still being comfortable across the range (which doesn't usefully go above high C for me yet.)
Also, it's easier to switch between the 3G and the 4 than it was to the 6-1/2al.
Dave
Most of my playing is large bore tenor using a Bach 3G.
I also have a King 3B+/F and I had much the same frustrations with a 6-1/2al in the lower register and with flexibility in general. I got a Bach 4 which I'm very happy with in terms of resolving the low range issues and still being comfortable across the range (which doesn't usefully go above high C for me yet.)
Also, it's easier to switch between the 3G and the 4 than it was to the 6-1/2al.
Dave
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Thanks for the suggestions, everyone.
I have used DE in the past... I may go down that route again, we'll see.
The modern Bach 4 is really strangely large (as is the 3), and they still have a pretty small throat. I have a friend at the same gig using one. My older 3 is smaller in every way except the rim and overall is a better mouthpiece.
I have used DE in the past... I may go down that route again, we'll see.
The modern Bach 4 is really strangely large (as is the 3), and they still have a pretty small throat. I have a friend at the same gig using one. My older 3 is smaller in every way except the rim and overall is a better mouthpiece.
- bimmerman
- Posts: 188
- Joined: Apr 04, 2018
If the 5 rim works, and a 6.5al works also, and a DE setup isn't in the cards, try a 5GS? Pretty much is a 6.5 AL depth/throat on a 5 rim.
Or, Schilke 51B ?
Or, Schilke 51B ?
- ngrinder
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Apr 24, 2018
You could open up the throat of your 5. I used that mouthpiece for a while on my medium bore, but switched to a 6.5A, as the throat was larger and better at accepting larger amounts of air, but I still got enough compression and sizzle to sound idiomatic. The small throats are great for certain things, but finicky to those more accustomed to larger mouthpieces, in my opinion.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Aidan,
It's presumptuous to me to suggest anything, since you play far better than I do, but I also play bass trombone as well as a King 3B. I think what may work for you is a piece with a fairly deep cup the size of a Bach 5/5GS (25.50mm diameter) but a larger throat than Bach's constricting 5.85mm bore. What works well for me is a Josef Klier "Exclusive" 7C (25.50mm cup, 6.40mm throat) - nothing at all like a Bach 7C, it's a nice, open, full-range mouthpiece, very well-made, as are all Klier mouthpieces.
I have never had success with a Schilke 51B - small-bore or large-bore. Cup is too shallow? :idk:
You might also look into
• Marcinkiewicz 9B (B. Stroup) - 26.06mm cup, 6.35mm throat
• Denis Wick 5BS - 25.73mm cup, 6.87mm throat
Good luck. Let us know if you find anything that works for you. :???:
It's presumptuous to me to suggest anything, since you play far better than I do, but I also play bass trombone as well as a King 3B. I think what may work for you is a piece with a fairly deep cup the size of a Bach 5/5GS (25.50mm diameter) but a larger throat than Bach's constricting 5.85mm bore. What works well for me is a Josef Klier "Exclusive" 7C (25.50mm cup, 6.40mm throat) - nothing at all like a Bach 7C, it's a nice, open, full-range mouthpiece, very well-made, as are all Klier mouthpieces.
I have never had success with a Schilke 51B - small-bore or large-bore. Cup is too shallow? :idk:
You might also look into
• Marcinkiewicz 9B (B. Stroup) - 26.06mm cup, 6.35mm throat
• Denis Wick 5BS - 25.73mm cup, 6.87mm throat
Good luck. Let us know if you find anything that works for you. :???:
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="ngrinder"]You could open up the throat of your 5. I used that mouthpiece for a while on my medium bore, but switched to a 6.5A, as the throat was larger and better at accepting larger amounts of air, but I still got enough compression and sizzle to sound idiomatic. The small throats are great for certain things, but finicky to those more accustomed to larger mouthpieces, in my opinion.[/quote]
This might be my first move. I have two, after all!
This might be my first move. I have two, after all!
- brtnats
- Posts: 341
- Joined: Apr 26, 2018
I use a Yamaha Nils Landgren piece on my .508, playing ska and commercial from low E to that C (sometimes higher). It’s kind of like a Bach 6 3/4, but with a more Yamaha 48/wide feeling rim and a pretty large backbore with a standard throat. I dig it, as an off-the-shelf solution.
FWIW, I play a Yeo on my bass, and the switch isn’t very hard at all.
FWIW, I play a Yeo on my bass, and the switch isn’t very hard at all.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="brtnats"]Yamaha Nils Landgren[/quote]
Another good choice for 0.508" bore trombones - though it's got a little smaller cup (25.1mm diameter) than the Bach 5-size mouthpieces, or even than the 6½AL, so may feel a bit uncomfortable to Burgerbob. Throat 6.25mm diameter - well matched to the mouthpiece.
Another good choice for 0.508" bore trombones - though it's got a little smaller cup (25.1mm diameter) than the Bach 5-size mouthpieces, or even than the 6½AL, so may feel a bit uncomfortable to Burgerbob. Throat 6.25mm diameter - well matched to the mouthpiece.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
For what it's worth, I actually have a Nils Landgren threaded for Elliott rims... I think it takes an LT so you coudl give that a try if you wanted as well.
- Rusty
- Posts: 470
- Joined: Jun 01, 2018
[quote="Matt K"]For what it's worth, I actually have a Nils Landgren threaded for Elliott rims... I think it takes an LT so you coudl give that a try if you wanted as well.[/quote]
How does this work with the DE rim? I liked the Nils piece on a 3b and I think it’s very well designed, but I found the rim quite uncomfortable, it’s quite a sharp feeling on my face. DE rims are much more comfy for me
How does this work with the DE rim? I liked the Nils piece on a 3b and I think it’s very well designed, but I found the rim quite uncomfortable, it’s quite a sharp feeling on my face. DE rims are much more comfy for me
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
[quote="Rusty"]<QUOTE author="Matt K" post_id="81109" time="1553138906" user_id="48">
For what it's worth, I actually have a Nils Landgren threaded for Elliott rims... I think it takes an LT so you coudl give that a try if you wanted as well.[/quote]
How does this work with the DE rim? I liked the Nils piece on a 3b and I think it’s very well designed, but I found the rim quite uncomfortable, it’s quite a sharp feeling on my face. DE rims are much more comfy for me
</QUOTE>
I used it as my main commercial piece for awhile. Worked well on the horn at the time but I can't remember which one that was! I believe at the time this was prior to Doug's C+ cup, which is ultimately what I replaced it with though it seems to play quite simlar to that. Something in between a C+/C2 and C3 if memory serves but I can dig it out and give it a toot if Iremember today!
For what it's worth, I actually have a Nils Landgren threaded for Elliott rims... I think it takes an LT so you coudl give that a try if you wanted as well.[/quote]
How does this work with the DE rim? I liked the Nils piece on a 3b and I think it’s very well designed, but I found the rim quite uncomfortable, it’s quite a sharp feeling on my face. DE rims are much more comfy for me
</QUOTE>
I used it as my main commercial piece for awhile. Worked well on the horn at the time but I can't remember which one that was! I believe at the time this was prior to Doug's C+ cup, which is ultimately what I replaced it with though it seems to play quite simlar to that. Something in between a C+/C2 and C3 if memory serves but I can dig it out and give it a toot if Iremember today!
- Mv2541
- Posts: 562
- Joined: Mar 29, 2018
[quote="Matt K"]<QUOTE author="Rusty" post_id="81126" time="1553161790" user_id="3347">
How does this work with the DE rim? I liked the Nils piece on a 3b and I think it’s very well designed, but I found the rim quite uncomfortable, it’s quite a sharp feeling on my face. DE rims are much more comfy for me[/quote]
I used it as my main commercial piece for awhile. Worked well on the horn at the time but I can't remember which one that was! I believe at the time this was prior to Doug's C+ cup, which is ultimately what I replaced it with though it seems to play quite simlar to that. Something in between a C+/C2 and C3 if memory serves but I can dig it out and give it a toot if Iremember today!
</QUOTE>
If you ever wanna sell that piece I would totally love to try it.
How does this work with the DE rim? I liked the Nils piece on a 3b and I think it’s very well designed, but I found the rim quite uncomfortable, it’s quite a sharp feeling on my face. DE rims are much more comfy for me[/quote]
I used it as my main commercial piece for awhile. Worked well on the horn at the time but I can't remember which one that was! I believe at the time this was prior to Doug's C+ cup, which is ultimately what I replaced it with though it seems to play quite simlar to that. Something in between a C+/C2 and C3 if memory serves but I can dig it out and give it a toot if Iremember today!
</QUOTE>
If you ever wanna sell that piece I would totally love to try it.
- greenbean
- Posts: 1958
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I use a Stork T1S on my small- and medium bore horns. Awesome. Symphonic throat is larger than the standard.
I have also had luck with a Schilke 51B on a 3B. Really good! The 51 is too deep, it seems.
I have also had luck with a Schilke 51B on a 3B. Really good! The 51 is too deep, it seems.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Trying a 51B tomorrow. I have a friend using one and he sounds great.
The 6 1/2 definitely works... I'll be putting in some more time to see if it is really deficient in a major way.
The 6 1/2 definitely works... I'll be putting in some more time to see if it is really deficient in a major way.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Yet another option - a Schilke 53 small-shank. 26.24mm cup I.D., 6.35mm throat. Bigger cup than a Bach 5GS, slightly smaller throat. If you're used to larger mouthpieces, this should work well for a 0.508" bore King 3B.
And John McKevitt (JohnnyMack) has one for sale now. If Burgerbob doesn't buy it, I will! :idea:
See:
https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8630
And John McKevitt (JohnnyMack) has one for sale now. If Burgerbob doesn't buy it, I will! :idea:
See:
https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8630
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="greenbean"]I use a Stork T1S on my small- and medium bore horns. Awesome. Symphonic throat is larger than the standard.
I have also had luck with a Schilke 51B on a 3B. Really good! The 51 is too deep, it seems.[/quote]
Strange - I like the Stork T1 (a fine mouthpiece) but just can't get along with the Schilke 51B - small or large shank. :idk:
I have also had luck with a Schilke 51B on a 3B. Really good! The 51 is too deep, it seems.[/quote]
Strange - I like the Stork T1 (a fine mouthpiece) but just can't get along with the Schilke 51B - small or large shank. :idk:
- Cmillar
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Apr 24, 2018
When I had a 3B, I loved using a Wick 7C classic with the option of putting on the Wick 'ToneBooster' depending on the style of music I was playing.
It worked beautifully for 1st trombone parts in a really great wind ensemble. Sounded like any 'legit' horn but had better stylistic flexibility.
It worked beautifully for 1st trombone parts in a really great wind ensemble. Sounded like any 'legit' horn but had better stylistic flexibility.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Got some serious face time on the 6 1/2 yesterday. Worked out OK. Definitely does loud!
Fixed the shank on my beater Corp just to compare... It's garbage. Relegated to paperweight duty.
Fixed the shank on my beater Corp just to compare... It's garbage. Relegated to paperweight duty.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]Got some serious face time on the 6 1/2 yesterday. Worked out OK. Definitely does loud![/quote]
Just out of curiosity, which 6½ are you having success with - 6½A, 6½AM, or 6½AL?
(I'm presuming the 6½AL, which has the largest throat.)
They (6½AL) can indeed be played at a high volume. 40+ years ago, the large-shank versions were widely used in major symphony orchestras. For that "Teutonic" sound, I guess!
Just out of curiosity, which 6½ are you having success with - 6½A, 6½AM, or 6½AL?
(I'm presuming the 6½AL, which has the largest throat.)
They (6½AL) can indeed be played at a high volume. 40+ years ago, the large-shank versions were widely used in major symphony orchestras. For that "Teutonic" sound, I guess!
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
AL, yes. So is my other Corp one that is awful. I have a Corp 6 1/2A in great shape... In large shank.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="Posaunus"]40+ years ago, the large-shank versions were widely used in major symphony orchestras. For that "Teutonic" sound, I guess![/quote]
"Widely used"? Glen Dodson was the only one I'm aware of.
"Widely used"? Glen Dodson was the only one I'm aware of.
- CalgaryTbone
- Posts: 1460
- Joined: May 10, 2018
Dee Stewart, Henry Charles Smith, Per Brevig (Conn and Wick equivalents), and Dave Langlitz come to mind as players who used a 6.5 AL mouthpiece back in the day. Jay Friedman was playing a Schilke 51B back then as well, which he recently described as Schilke's version of that mouthpiece. Not sure what the players that were on Conn 78's and Bach 36's were using before .547 bores became standard. Some players were also using 6.5 type mouthpieces for the alto rep., back before actual altos became more common.
Jim Scott
Jim Scott
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
A few more days at work and some Caruso later, my beater 6 1/2AL is still going strong. Solid core to the sound, Loud!! and soft, flexible, all the articulations I want. The low register issue was me being too open (habit coming from the 5) in combination with the larger throat.
This 3B just keeps getting better...
This 3B just keeps getting better...
- Fairlane57
- Posts: 531
- Joined: Apr 15, 2018
Go old school with the mouthpiece set up for the 3B. M-21 or M-31
Thanks, Bob
Thanks, Bob
- Fruitysloth
- Posts: 421
- Joined: Apr 10, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]Using an MV 6 1/2AL now. Wow. The magic is real.[/quote]
I was about to recommend this. I played a 3B/F over the weekend with a MV 6 1/2AL, and if I didn't already have a yamaha 356 that I used for pit work, I would have done some sort of payment plan for it.
I was about to recommend this. I played a 3B/F over the weekend with a MV 6 1/2AL, and if I didn't already have a yamaha 356 that I used for pit work, I would have done some sort of payment plan for it.
- Trav1s
- Posts: 473
- Joined: Jul 26, 2018
Faxx 6.5AL maybe?
I am about the DE stuff but the Faxx is a great option for not much cash outlay.
I am about the DE stuff but the Faxx is a great option for not much cash outlay.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="Trav1s"]Faxx 6.5AL maybe?
I am about the DE stuff but the Faxx is a great option for not much cash outlay.[/quote]
I sure hope a FAXX isn't as good as this MV!
I am about the DE stuff but the Faxx is a great option for not much cash outlay.[/quote]
I sure hope a FAXX isn't as good as this MV!
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="Trav1s" post_id="82626" time="1554938416" user_id="3564">
Faxx 6.5AL maybe?
I am about the DE stuff but the Faxx is a great option for not much cash outlay.[/quote]
I sure hope a FAXX isn't as good as this MV!
</QUOTE>
The Faxx was supposedly copied from a Mount Vernon (although possibly not the one you are playing).
Faxx 6.5AL maybe?
I am about the DE stuff but the Faxx is a great option for not much cash outlay.[/quote]
I sure hope a FAXX isn't as good as this MV!
</QUOTE>
The Faxx was supposedly copied from a Mount Vernon (although possibly not the one you are playing).
- norbie2018
- Posts: 1051
- Joined: Apr 05, 2018
And mouthpieces are mouthpieces.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="norbie2018"]And mouthpieces are mouthpieces.[/quote]
Yup... they make the biggest difference of anything you can play! :biggrin:
Yup... they make the biggest difference of anything you can play! :biggrin:
- blast
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]Copies are copies.[/quote]
Yup.... I am playing a copy of one of my Mt Vernons... nothing like the original, but in this case, it's worked out better !!
Chris
Yup.... I am playing a copy of one of my Mt Vernons... nothing like the original, but in this case, it's worked out better !!
Chris
- islander
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Jun 07, 2018
And I'm hoping to repeat that voodoo on a 2G, Chris. Getting on it now.
- mrdeacon
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: May 08, 2018
[quote="blast"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob" post_id="82629" time="1554942798" user_id="3131">
Copies are copies.[/quote]
Yup.... I am playing a copy of one of my Mt Vernons... nothing like the original, but in this case, it's worked out better !!
Chris
</QUOTE>
Chris you still playing on the brass copy or did you swap full time over to the unpolished Zr copy?
Copies are copies.[/quote]
Yup.... I am playing a copy of one of my Mt Vernons... nothing like the original, but in this case, it's worked out better !!
Chris
</QUOTE>
Chris you still playing on the brass copy or did you swap full time over to the unpolished Zr copy?
- ngrinder
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Apr 24, 2018
Kind of unrelated, but has anyone played a copy of a mouthpiece that was, well, an actual copy?
I’ve had a few reputable mouthpiece makers copy things for me, and while most of them have turned out to be good pieces, they were all far from exact replicas.
I’ve had a few reputable mouthpiece makers copy things for me, and while most of them have turned out to be good pieces, they were all far from exact replicas.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Used the MV at work. Yup, it's the one. Easy and the best sound. I'm sure there's something better out there, but this will work for a good while :)
- Landok
- Posts: 14
- Joined: Jan 02, 2019
[quote="Burgerbob"]A few more days at work and some Caruso later, my beater 6 1/2AL is still going strong. Solid core to the sound, Loud!! and soft, flexible, all the articulations I want. The low register issue was me being too open (habit coming from the 5) in combination with the larger throat.
This 3B just keeps getting better...[/quote]
This past weekend I went to a music store to try out some horns and mouthpieces. The only mouthpiece that worked for me on the king 3b was also an 6 1/2AL. I then tried an Bach 36 with the same mouthpiece and no luck, BUT when I tried the 5G on the Bach 36 it worked perfectly. So for some, yes matching the right mouthpiece with the right horn or bore size makes a huge difference. Hope the match is still working well for you.
This 3B just keeps getting better...[/quote]
This past weekend I went to a music store to try out some horns and mouthpieces. The only mouthpiece that worked for me on the king 3b was also an 6 1/2AL. I then tried an Bach 36 with the same mouthpiece and no luck, BUT when I tried the 5G on the Bach 36 it worked perfectly. So for some, yes matching the right mouthpiece with the right horn or bore size makes a huge difference. Hope the match is still working well for you.
- BurckhardtS
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Mar 25, 2018
A friend of mine came to visit this weekend. He brought his trombone and stuff, and I decided to give a Griego Alessi 1C a whirl, a mouthpiece which I tried at the ITF on my Edwards Alessi and absoutely hated. Now on my Shires, I actually REALLY liked it. It's pretty much the same as my Greg Black NY 1 or DE setup that I use, but the rim is narrower (than the GB at least) and I really like that. That, and maybe it just fits and works with my Shires better than my Edwards, but I'm not sure of that. I've also changed a LOT as a player from two summers ago when I tried it.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Yup, still really enjoying the 6.5. I have a 5GS that also works, but paints the 3B even more into a "legit" corner for me.
My 36B worked really well with the 6.5, but the 5GS was definitely the sweet spot.
My 36B worked really well with the 6.5, but the 5GS was definitely the sweet spot.
- SirJohn
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Jun 20, 2018
My son digs the Conn 3 on a King 3b. He also has a Yamaha 48, a 6.5al, and, a 5GS, but the Conn 3 suited him best for that horn. Not the best for the low end, but then he seldom plays down there when using the 3b. He liked the 5GS on it too. On the whole mouthpiece fitting the horn and the player subject, he actually hated the Conn 3 on a Yamaha YSL-354. He found the 48 was the best of those four for that horn for him.
- flotrb
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Jun 20, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]Hey all. I play a 3B at work. It's a great horn and does it all, but I'm still trying to find something that really jives with it. I need to be able to play from low E to high C (yes, all those notes) and have it feel good throughout a whole day...[/quote]
I am playing a 1975 King 3B Silver Sonic for the B'dway pit, and considering the vast number of styles you have to play in one show, I have found that the Marcinkiewicz 8H-S is FANTASTIC!
From the pedals–through the false tones–up to high Db, everything works.
I highly recommend it...highly!
I am playing a 1975 King 3B Silver Sonic for the B'dway pit, and considering the vast number of styles you have to play in one show, I have found that the Marcinkiewicz 8H-S is FANTASTIC!
From the pedals–through the false tones–up to high Db, everything works.
I highly recommend it...highly!
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Have no fear, everyone... I found a Doug Elliot setup that does it all.
For my silversonic I use an XT 103N.C+.D3
For my 3B/F I use the same thing with a D cup.
The C+ really lights up the silversonic and gives it good color and attacks, the D gives the F attachment horn a bit more depth and takes a tiny bit of edge off.
For my silversonic I use an XT 103N.C+.D3
For my 3B/F I use the same thing with a D cup.
The C+ really lights up the silversonic and gives it good color and attacks, the D gives the F attachment horn a bit more depth and takes a tiny bit of edge off.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]Have no fear, everyone... I found a Doug Elliot setup that does it all.
For my silversonic I use an XT 103N.C+.D3
For my 3B/F I use the same thing with a D cup.
The C+ really lights up the silversonic and gives it good color and attacks, the D gives the F attachment horn a bit more depth and takes a tiny bit of edge off.[/quote]
But that XT106N tho
For my silversonic I use an XT 103N.C+.D3
For my 3B/F I use the same thing with a D cup.
The C+ really lights up the silversonic and gives it good color and attacks, the D gives the F attachment horn a bit more depth and takes a tiny bit of edge off.[/quote]
But that XT106N tho
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]
But that XT106N tho[/quote]
I actually use a 104N on my 36K, but using it on the 3B it felt much worse in every way. The 103N is still easy to play but corrected all those issues.
But that XT106N tho[/quote]
I actually use a 104N on my 36K, but using it on the 3B it felt much worse in every way. The 103N is still easy to play but corrected all those issues.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
:good: