Ken Shifrin: PhD about alto trombone
- Ruigekerel
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Mar 20, 2019
Hi,
On this site (<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.jayfriedman.net/articles/j_ ... ne_history">https://www.jayfriedman.net/articles/j_and_k_talk_trombone_history</LINK_TEXT>) I found that dr. Ken Shifrin wrote a PhD about the history of the Alto trombone from 1800-2000. It says the dissertation is free to download on the bottom of the page, though the link does not work.
Is there anyone who can help me find this dissertation, because it appears to be one of the best summary of the history of the alto trombone available...
On this site (<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.jayfriedman.net/articles/j_ ... ne_history">https://www.jayfriedman.net/articles/j_and_k_talk_trombone_history</LINK_TEXT>) I found that dr. Ken Shifrin wrote a PhD about the history of the Alto trombone from 1800-2000. It says the dissertation is free to download on the bottom of the page, though the link does not work.
Is there anyone who can help me find this dissertation, because it appears to be one of the best summary of the history of the alto trombone available...
- bcschipper
- Posts: 205
- Joined: Sep 23, 2018
I tried to get hold of it once via interlibrary loan but I just realized I never got it. I would be interested in a copy as well.
Here is the reference: Shifrin, Ken (2000). The Alto Trombone in the Orchestra: 1800-2000 or Shifrin, Ken "Orchestral Trombone Practice in the Nineteenth Century with Special Reference to the Alto Trombone." Ph.D diss., University of Oxford (United Kingdom)
Here is the reference: Shifrin, Ken (2000). The Alto Trombone in the Orchestra: 1800-2000 or Shifrin, Ken "Orchestral Trombone Practice in the Nineteenth Century with Special Reference to the Alto Trombone." Ph.D diss., University of Oxford (United Kingdom)
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
The last address I have for Ken is in Birmingham England, I assume he's still there. I know him because he's from my city, Silver Spring MD but he's a little older.
Trivia: Ken Shifrin, Goldie Hawn and Sylvester Stallone all went to the same high school just a few years apart.
Trivia: Ken Shifrin, Goldie Hawn and Sylvester Stallone all went to the same high school just a few years apart.
- Ruigekerel
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Mar 20, 2019
So can you contact him or... ?
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
- LeTromboniste
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
Just a caveat that a 20 year-old dissertation should be taken with a grain of salt and might not completely reflect the current state of knowledge or understanding. For instance there has been much debate among trombone scholars in the years since (and to this day) on the use of alto trombones in the 19th century. Of course much of the information will still be useful, but just something to keep in mind.
- jazztonight
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Jul 15, 2019
[quote="Doug Elliott"]...Trivia: Ken Shifrin, Goldie Hawn and Sylvester Stallone all went to the same high school just a few years apart.[/quote]
I'm not sure about Ken Shifrin, but Goldie Hawn and Sylvester Stallone did NOT attend the same high school. The reason I know this is because Goldie attended Montgomery Blair HS in Silver Spring, MD, which is where my wife went. So I looked up Stallone on Wikipedia and found this: Stallone attended Notre Dame Academy and Lincoln High School in Philadelphia,[23] as well as Charlotte Hall Military Academy.
Just sayin'.
I'm not sure about Ken Shifrin, but Goldie Hawn and Sylvester Stallone did NOT attend the same high school. The reason I know this is because Goldie attended Montgomery Blair HS in Silver Spring, MD, which is where my wife went. So I looked up Stallone on Wikipedia and found this: Stallone attended Notre Dame Academy and Lincoln High School in Philadelphia,[23] as well as Charlotte Hall Military Academy.
Just sayin'.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="jazztonight"]<QUOTE author="Doug Elliott" post_id="81122" time="1553157464" user_id="51">
...Trivia: Ken Shifrin, Goldie Hawn and Sylvester Stallone all went to the same high school just a few years apart.[/quote]
I'm not sure about Ken Shifrin, but Goldie Hawn and Sylvester Stallone did NOT attend the same high school. The reason I know this is because Goldie attended Montgomery Blair HS in Silver Spring, MD, which is where my wife went. So I looked up Stallone on Wikipedia and found this: Stallone attended Notre Dame Academy and Lincoln High School in Philadelphia,[23] as well as Charlotte Hall Military Academy.
Just sayin'.
</QUOTE>
According to Bethesda Magazine:
"Born in New York City, Stallone relocated with his family to Washington, D.C., and later Silver Spring, where his father opened a chain of beauty salons. Stallone attended Woodlin Elementary School and Montgomery Hills Junior High. He also attended Montgomery Blair High School."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From another source: (<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.mocoshow.com/blog/blair-hig ... ous-alumni">https://www.mocoshow.com/blog/blair-high-schools-top-5-most-famous-alumni</LINK_TEXT>)
"Stallone spent some of his childhood growing up in a home on Seminary Rd. He attended Woodlin Elementary School, Montgomery Hills Junior High, and Blair High School.
Some have disputed that Stallone ever attended Blair High School while others believe he even graduated from the school. I was able to confirm that he was briefly a student at Blair, but did not graduate from the school."
And while we're at it:
Connie Chung was once the homecoming queen at Blair.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I also grew up in Silver Spring but not in Montgomery Hills or Blair territory.
...Trivia: Ken Shifrin, Goldie Hawn and Sylvester Stallone all went to the same high school just a few years apart.[/quote]
I'm not sure about Ken Shifrin, but Goldie Hawn and Sylvester Stallone did NOT attend the same high school. The reason I know this is because Goldie attended Montgomery Blair HS in Silver Spring, MD, which is where my wife went. So I looked up Stallone on Wikipedia and found this: Stallone attended Notre Dame Academy and Lincoln High School in Philadelphia,[23] as well as Charlotte Hall Military Academy.
Just sayin'.
</QUOTE>
According to Bethesda Magazine:
"Born in New York City, Stallone relocated with his family to Washington, D.C., and later Silver Spring, where his father opened a chain of beauty salons. Stallone attended Woodlin Elementary School and Montgomery Hills Junior High. He also attended Montgomery Blair High School."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From another source: (<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.mocoshow.com/blog/blair-hig ... ous-alumni">https://www.mocoshow.com/blog/blair-high-schools-top-5-most-famous-alumni</LINK_TEXT>)
"Stallone spent some of his childhood growing up in a home on Seminary Rd. He attended Woodlin Elementary School, Montgomery Hills Junior High, and Blair High School.
Some have disputed that Stallone ever attended Blair High School while others believe he even graduated from the school. I was able to confirm that he was briefly a student at Blair, but did not graduate from the school."
And while we're at it:
Connie Chung was once the homecoming queen at Blair.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I also grew up in Silver Spring but not in Montgomery Hills or Blair territory.
- Mikebmiller
- Posts: 961
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
I could use a dissertation on where the dang slide positions are on the alto.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Too many serious people on here. :hi:
- AndrewMeronek
- Posts: 1487
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
[quote="Mikebmiller"]I could use a dissertation on where the dang slide positions are on the alto.[/quote]
It's a moving target. The alto trombone gnomes move them around while you're playing. They're like garden gnomes, but sillier. I recommend offerings of dirty jokes.
It's a moving target. The alto trombone gnomes move them around while you're playing. They're like garden gnomes, but sillier. I recommend offerings of dirty jokes.
- jazztonight
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Jul 15, 2019
[quote="Doug Elliott"]<QUOTE author="jazztonight" post_id="92075" time="1566250791" user_id="7138">
I'm not sure about Ken Shifrin, but Goldie Hawn and Sylvester Stallone did NOT attend the same high school. The reason I know this is because Goldie attended Montgomery Blair HS in Silver Spring, MD, which is where my wife went. So I looked up Stallone on Wikipedia and found this: Stallone attended Notre Dame Academy and Lincoln High School in Philadelphia,[23] as well as Charlotte Hall Military Academy.
Just sayin'.[/quote]
According to Bethesda Magazine:
"Born in New York City, Stallone relocated with his family to Washington, D.C., and later Silver Spring, where his father opened a chain of beauty salons. Stallone attended Woodlin Elementary School and Montgomery Hills Junior High. He also attended Montgomery Blair High School."
----------------------
From another source: (<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.mocoshow.com/blog/blair-hig ... ous-alumni">https://www.mocoshow.com/blog/blair-high-schools-top-5-most-famous-alumni</LINK_TEXT>)
"Stallone spent some of his childhood growing up in a home on Seminary Rd. He attended Woodlin Elementary School, Montgomery Hills Junior High, and Blair High School.
Some have disputed that Stallone ever attended Blair High School while others believe he even graduated from the school. I was able to confirm that he was briefly a student at Blair, but did not graduate from the school."
And while we're at it:
Connie Chung was once the homecoming queen at Blair.
I also grew up in Silver Spring but not in Montgomery Hills or Blair territory.
</QUOTE>
Wow, it's amazing that different sources will give you opposing "true" information.
I just checked with my wife (the confirmed Blair grad), and while she could confirm Chun and Hawn, she'd never heard about Stallone. Since it really makes no difference (unless Sly played the trombone), I'm happy to let it lie, and get back to more important issues :cool:
I'm not sure about Ken Shifrin, but Goldie Hawn and Sylvester Stallone did NOT attend the same high school. The reason I know this is because Goldie attended Montgomery Blair HS in Silver Spring, MD, which is where my wife went. So I looked up Stallone on Wikipedia and found this: Stallone attended Notre Dame Academy and Lincoln High School in Philadelphia,[23] as well as Charlotte Hall Military Academy.
Just sayin'.[/quote]
According to Bethesda Magazine:
"Born in New York City, Stallone relocated with his family to Washington, D.C., and later Silver Spring, where his father opened a chain of beauty salons. Stallone attended Woodlin Elementary School and Montgomery Hills Junior High. He also attended Montgomery Blair High School."
----------------------
From another source: (<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.mocoshow.com/blog/blair-hig ... ous-alumni">https://www.mocoshow.com/blog/blair-high-schools-top-5-most-famous-alumni</LINK_TEXT>)
"Stallone spent some of his childhood growing up in a home on Seminary Rd. He attended Woodlin Elementary School, Montgomery Hills Junior High, and Blair High School.
Some have disputed that Stallone ever attended Blair High School while others believe he even graduated from the school. I was able to confirm that he was briefly a student at Blair, but did not graduate from the school."
And while we're at it:
Connie Chung was once the homecoming queen at Blair.
I also grew up in Silver Spring but not in Montgomery Hills or Blair territory.
</QUOTE>
Wow, it's amazing that different sources will give you opposing "true" information.
I just checked with my wife (the confirmed Blair grad), and while she could confirm Chun and Hawn, she'd never heard about Stallone. Since it really makes no difference (unless Sly played the trombone), I'm happy to let it lie, and get back to more important issues :cool:
- harpo
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Jan 10, 2020
[quote="LeTromboniste"]Just a caveat that a 20 year-old dissertation should be taken with a grain of salt and might not completely reflect the current state of knowledge or understanding. For instance there has been much debate among trombone scholars in the years since (and to this day) on the use of alto trombones in the 19th century. Of course much of the information will still be useful, but just something to keep in mind.[/quote]
Interesting! Is the debate of the last 20 years formally written down anywhere, or just from discussions in person/on this forum or equivalent, etc.? As an amateur trombonist both my conductors and I are far more interested in whether the trombones will play the right notes (or any notes) on the night than authenticity, but I still find it fascinating and fun to explore different sound worlds.
As far as the dissertation on alto trombone goes, it is now available here <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.tonkunstler-on-the-bund.com ... h/shifrin/">https://www.tonkunstler-on-the-bund.com/research/shifrin/</LINK_TEXT> (linked from https://www.kenshifrin.com/).
Regarding the dissertation on Sylvester Stallone's education - when someone writes it, then can say that it started on this thread!
Interesting! Is the debate of the last 20 years formally written down anywhere, or just from discussions in person/on this forum or equivalent, etc.? As an amateur trombonist both my conductors and I are far more interested in whether the trombones will play the right notes (or any notes) on the night than authenticity, but I still find it fascinating and fun to explore different sound worlds.
As far as the dissertation on alto trombone goes, it is now available here <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.tonkunstler-on-the-bund.com ... h/shifrin/">https://www.tonkunstler-on-the-bund.com/research/shifrin/</LINK_TEXT> (linked from https://www.kenshifrin.com/).
Regarding the dissertation on Sylvester Stallone's education - when someone writes it, then can say that it started on this thread!