Single Valve Bass Trombones

snieckarz · by **snieckarz** » 2019-04-05 2:16 p.m.

Hi all,

I'm currently in the market for a single valve bass trombone. There is a lot of music out there where a 562/578 bore bass is overkill when your principal player might be playing an alto.

I'd like to hear what you all have to say about brand new single valve basses or vintage horns. I've seen many vintage horns for sale recently (Holton TR159, Conn 72H/71H/61H/110H.) Your recommendations are greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

HawaiiTromboneGuy · by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » 2019-04-05 2:21 p.m.

A good Conn 70H of any vintage gets my vote.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2019-04-05 2:37 p.m.

Probably the best choice for a new single-valve bass trombone is the Yamaha YBL-421G.

Ignore the "MSRP" of $4,213.00 - these can be bought new for about $3,200 or less.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.wwbw.com/Yamaha-YBL-421G-In ... ductDetail">https://www.wwbw.com/Yamaha-YBL-421G-Intermediate-Bass-Trombone-461366.wwbw#productDetail</LINK_TEXT>

Or used for about $2,000:

<LINK_TEXT text="https://reverb.com/p/yamaha-ybl-421g-in ... s-trombone">https://reverb.com/p/yamaha-ybl-421g-intermediate-bass-trombone</LINK_TEXT>

Intermediate model? Not really - it plays at a full professional level. Yamaha's manufacturing is first class, slides are great.

See this video review:

<YOUTUBE id="UaLBnmymM0E">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaLBnmymM0E</YOUTUBE>

Good luck.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2019-04-05 2:51 p.m.

A Holton 159 isn't really a bass. A 169 or 185 is a single trigger bass (and very good ones).

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2019-04-05 3:21 p.m.

Yeah, the 159 isn't a real bass bone, but it's a lot more than just a tenor. The one I had played great down low, but you could also play it as a tenor. If I had one again, I'd put a plug in valve in it, and wouldn't care about what people say. It's a great instrument for down on and under the staff. No one is going to mistake you for a tuba playing that horn, but a tenor player can have a lot of fun with it.

72h is the old warhorse. You can find them cheap, but for some reason, these horns got beat up more than the others in school band programs. The good ones sound good, but you might have to put some money into a used one to make it playable, and forget about it if you want something that's shiny.

71h I think is like the 72, but just with a different wrap. The 71 looks like you might be able to put another valve in the wrap like the 62h. The 60h has TIS and a rose bell, I'm not familiar with a 61h.

The 110h is a modern instrument, single valve, rose bell, open wrap, tuning in bell. Uses the SL6262 slide, not the longer slide of the older Conn basses. I wouldn't hesitate to get one if you needed it and the price was reasonable. Personally, I'd just get a double plug.

The Yamaha 622/822 are the ones that interest me, since they come with a built-in removable second valve. I think that's the way to go. You get the practicality of the double with the versatility of the single.

mrdeacon · by **mrdeacon** » 2019-04-05 3:46 p.m.

Yamaha 300 series horns, Holton TR183 and Conn 70h, 71h, 72h... Are the best bang for your buck. Solid horns don't knock that they're a good deal! You can find these in the $700-1500 range.

Conn 60h, Bach 50B and Holton Tr185, 169... Are the primo single valved basses. These hold their own against their double valved cousins and they all have their own cult following. Even these guys can be had in good shape for less than $2000.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2019-04-05 3:47 p.m.

Hard to go wrong with a good 50B. They don't sound quite as huge as a big Getzen both due to the single bore and the lighter weight. They'll respond well to a smaller mouthpiece sound change as well.

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2019-04-05 4:09 p.m.

You specifically invoke the situation where the 1st is on alto. Assuming the 2nd trombone also downsizes, you might want to consider using a regular symphonic tenor on third. Maybe something like a King 5B or Holton TR159, if you want just a little more heft.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2019-04-05 4:50 p.m.

[quote="JohnL"]You specifically invoke the situation where the 1st is on alto. Assuming the 2nd trombone also downsizes, you might want to consider using a regular symphonic tenor on third.[/quote]

:good: Good recommendation John. A "true" (0.562" bore - or larger) modern bass trombone is probably not required, or perhaps even appropriate, in such a situation. A large-bore (0.547") symphonic tenor may well fill the bill for a downsized orchestral trombone section.

Kingfan · by **Kingfan** » 2019-04-05 6:10 p.m.

King 5B?

GabrielRice · by **GabrielRice** » 2019-04-05 6:41 p.m.

You seem to like vintage Conns. I would recommend looking for a 70H (my choice - I have one I love), 72H, or 60H. I've never played a 110H, but what I hear is that they're better instruments than the 112H, which I find strangely uneven in response, so one of those might be a good choice as well. The 71Hs I've played have felt sort of fragile.

The Holton TR-183 is also a nice choice for a single valve bass, at a much lower price point than what you see 169s and 185s go for.

I have a great 50B, and I don't really like it in the setting with an alto on top. It still has that big Bach sound, not the kind of sweetly focused core you get with the Conn and Holton singles.

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2019-04-05 6:54 p.m.

[quote="Kingfan"]King 5B?[/quote]
A excellent choice if the 2nd trombone downsizes to something in the .525" range (or smaller). Might be a bit small if the 2nd is still playing a symphony size horn.

snieckarz · by **snieckarz** » 2019-04-05 8:00 p.m.

[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="JohnL" post_id="82316" time="1554494948" user_id="119">
You specifically invoke the situation where the 1st is on alto. Assuming the 2nd trombone also downsizes, you might want to consider using a regular symphonic tenor on third.[/quote]

:good: Good recommendation John. A "true" (0.562" bore - or larger) modern bass trombone is probably not required, or perhaps even appropriate, in such a situation. A large-bore (0.547") symphonic tenor may well fill the bill for a downsized orchestral trombone section.
</QUOTE>

With the above info, how would an 88HK fit the bill? 9 inch bell with the larger throat. I've never played one but curious if anyone on here has?

Schlitz · 2019-04-05 8:29 p.m.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2019-04-05 8:56 p.m.

[quote="snieckarz"]<QUOTE author="Posaunus" post_id="82319" time="1554497455" user_id="158">

:good: Good recommendation John. A "true" (0.562" bore - or larger) modern bass trombone is probably not required, or perhaps even appropriate, in such a situation. A large-bore (0.547") symphonic tenor may well fill the bill for a downsized orchestral trombone section.[/quote]

With the above info, how would an 88HK fit the bill? 9 inch bell with the larger throat. I've never played one but curious if anyone on here has?
</QUOTE>

For a "downsized" section, with 1st on alto and 2nd on a small or medium-bore tenor, I think a standard 88H (or similar standard 0.547" bore F-attachment trombone) should be just fine, without "supersizing" it. And a lot easier to fine good options on the used market.

Or a single-valve bass, as already discussed on this thread.

GBP · by **GBP** » 2019-04-05 10:37 p.m.

I noticed you have a Getzen 3047. I would experiment with some large mouthpieces with the #3 pipe and see what you can do. I went down that small equipment rabbit hole. What I found for me, is that I got better results by adjusting how I played. It is amazing how small you can get a large horn to play.

Tbarh · by **Tbarh** » 2019-04-06 4:23 a.m.

Holton 183... Light.. Smaller bell flare diameter (not flare throat).. GR leadpipe... Slightly lighter sound but still a real bass..

LIBrassCo · by **LIBrassCo** » 2019-04-06 5:00 a.m.

A light bass.... if only someone invented a Baritone trombone.... cough cough....

<INSTAGRAM id="Bu1Q8NJgZrz"><LINK_TEXT text="https://www.instagram.com/p/Bu1Q8NJgZrz ... m97wglpk7p">https://www.instagram.com/p/Bu1Q8NJgZrz/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=13wm97wglpk7p</LINK_TEXT></INSTAGRAM>

<INSTAGRAM id="Bvy16HFAEAp"><LINK_TEXT text="https://www.instagram.com/p/Bvy16HFAEAp ... 6lljwcv01a">https://www.instagram.com/p/Bvy16HFAEAp/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=io6lljwcv01a</LINK_TEXT></INSTAGRAM>

snieckarz · by **snieckarz** » 2019-04-06 6:49 a.m.

[quote="LIBrassCo"]A light bass.... if only someone invented a Baritone trombone.... cough cough....

<INSTAGRAM id="Bu1Q8NJgZrz"><LINK_TEXT text="https://www.instagram.com/p/Bu1Q8NJgZrz ... m97wglpk7p">https://www.instagram.com/p/Bu1Q8NJgZrz/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=13wm97wglpk7p</LINK_TEXT></INSTAGRAM>

<INSTAGRAM id="Bvy16HFAEAp"><LINK_TEXT text="https://www.instagram.com/p/Bvy16HFAEAp ... 6lljwcv01a">https://www.instagram.com/p/Bvy16HFAEAp/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=io6lljwcv01a</LINK_TEXT></INSTAGRAM>[/quote]

I saw that fine single valve specimen on Facebook. Too cool! Have any video clips of those baritone bones in action?

LIBrassCo · by **LIBrassCo** » 2019-04-06 7:28 a.m.

[quote="snieckarz"]<QUOTE author="LIBrassCo" post_id="82358" time="1554541249" user_id="4931">
A light bass.... if only someone invented a Baritone trombone.... cough cough....

<INSTAGRAM id="Bu1Q8NJgZrz"><LINK_TEXT text="https://www.instagram.com/p/Bu1Q8NJgZrz ... m97wglpk7p">https://www.instagram.com/p/Bu1Q8NJgZrz/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=13wm97wglpk7p</LINK_TEXT></INSTAGRAM>

<INSTAGRAM id="Bvy16HFAEAp"><LINK_TEXT text="https://www.instagram.com/p/Bvy16HFAEAp ... 6lljwcv01a">https://www.instagram.com/p/Bvy16HFAEAp/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=io6lljwcv01a</LINK_TEXT></INSTAGRAM>[/quote]

I saw that fine single valve specimen on Facebook. Too cool! Have any video clips of those baritone bones in action?
</QUOTE>

Click into my Instagram, theres several clips to listen to. If you want a bigger broader sound, the 9" bell works well, and conversely the 8" bell gives a beautifully centered sound, sweeter and lighter.

Basbasun · by **Basbasun** » 2019-04-06 1:53 p.m.

Yamaha ybl 321 or 322, Holton 183. Bach 45B.

walldaja · by **walldaja** » 2019-04-08 7:48 a.m.

I really like my YBL-421G--exceptional tone. Works well when soloing with an organ or playing in a trombone choir. Used it playing the first book on a Shostakovitch piece--just what you need for Russian (or Klingon) music.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2019-04-08 1:59 p.m.

[quote="walldaja"]I really like my YBL-421G--exceptional tone.[/quote]

:good:

MahlerMusic · by **MahlerMusic** » 2019-05-09 12:59 p.m.

[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="snieckarz" post_id="82338" time="1554508813" user_id="2982">

With the above info, how would an 88HK fit the bill? 9 inch bell with the larger throat. I've never played one but curious if anyone on here has?[/quote]

For a "downsized" section, with 1st on alto and 2nd on a small or medium-bore tenor, I think a standard 88H (or similar standard 0.547" bore F-attachment trombone) should be just fine, without "supersizing" it. And a lot easier to fine good options on the used market.

Or a single-valve bass, as already discussed on this thread.
</QUOTE>

For me a single-valve Bass is not a downsize, the same way a large bore straight 0.547" is not a downsize for a 0.547" F-attachment. My Old trombone section was 0.525" 1st, 0.547" 2nd, and 0.562" 3rd. When the first is on Alto the 2nd is on a 0.500" and the bass player will use a 0.547" Conn 88H.

I would never pair a "regular" Alto with any full bore Bass unless you are using a (larger bore/dual bore to 0.547") modern Alto.

The other part of the story is that (I think) older stuff was played and scored for 3 tenors anyway and I always question the use of a bass for all third trombone Symphonic stuff.

Side note: I hate it when I bring my straight 8H to rehearsal and people ask me why I bought my little horn.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2019-05-09 6:09 p.m.

[quote="MahlerMusic"]Side note: I hate it when I bring my straight 8H to rehearsal and people ask me why I bought my little horn.[/quote]

Just like I'm a bit irritated when I bring my Yamaha single-valve bass (0.563" bore, 9½" bell) and folks wonder why I brought a small trombone instead of a "real" bass!" :frown:

Fortunately, most of the skeptics relent when they hear my full bass trombone sound emerge from that "small trombone." :shuffle:

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