60-sized mouthpiece with wide rim...?
- JonTheCadet
- Posts: 72
- Joined: May 28, 2018
Hi all,
Is there any mouthpiece makers that has a 60-equivalent with a wide rim? I have been playing on a Klier 02B, and while the rim is very comfortable, the cup itself has just a bit over half the depth of a 60 and it's also more V-shaped. I find the Schilke 60 more efficient in the low register (especially pedal) but I can't get used to the flat, thin rim. I find it very painful to articulate in the middle-low register with a 60, whereas the Klier works perfectly well, but feels slightly restrictive near low Ebs to low Bs.
Thus, I would like to, again, begin my search for a mouthpiece. Something reminiscent of a 60 (don't want to go any larger), with a comfort rim of some sort?
I've been thinking about a Thein JE MTTT (don't come by very often though) and a Ferguson LS. How do they feel?
Also, if possible, I would like to stick to 1-piece mouthpieces.
Best regards,
Jon
Is there any mouthpiece makers that has a 60-equivalent with a wide rim? I have been playing on a Klier 02B, and while the rim is very comfortable, the cup itself has just a bit over half the depth of a 60 and it's also more V-shaped. I find the Schilke 60 more efficient in the low register (especially pedal) but I can't get used to the flat, thin rim. I find it very painful to articulate in the middle-low register with a 60, whereas the Klier works perfectly well, but feels slightly restrictive near low Ebs to low Bs.
Thus, I would like to, again, begin my search for a mouthpiece. Something reminiscent of a 60 (don't want to go any larger), with a comfort rim of some sort?
I've been thinking about a Thein JE MTTT (don't come by very often though) and a Ferguson LS. How do they feel?
Also, if possible, I would like to stick to 1-piece mouthpieces.
Best regards,
Jon
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
You can do this very easily with Doug Elliott, but you say you want to stick with a one-piece mouthpiece.
In that case, you can do something custom from a number of makers, including Greg Black, Karl Hammond, and Schilke itself.
If you're interested in stainless steel or titanium, the Giddings Chinook and Don Harwood mouthpieces are both about that size with wider rims.
The Ferguson LS, a copy of the Minick LS, is comparable but a little smaller than a 60, with a wide rim and a heavy blank.
You might try the Yamaha Yeo mouthpiece (the replica version is not expensive), which is not a wide rim but has a contour that feels wider and more comfortable than a 60.
In that case, you can do something custom from a number of makers, including Greg Black, Karl Hammond, and Schilke itself.
If you're interested in stainless steel or titanium, the Giddings Chinook and Don Harwood mouthpieces are both about that size with wider rims.
The Ferguson LS, a copy of the Minick LS, is comparable but a little smaller than a 60, with a wide rim and a heavy blank.
You might try the Yamaha Yeo mouthpiece (the replica version is not expensive), which is not a wide rim but has a contour that feels wider and more comfortable than a 60.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
Remember that with a mouthpiece, there isn't a magic bullet and some of what you like about the 60 might be because of the narrower rim. (E.g. every design choice is a trade off to some degree -- I find that I have similar characteristics of sound on wide vs. narrow rims to your description.) Which is to say that you might also want to consider one of Doug's mW series (medium wide) which might be able to give you some of the characteristics of both without being uncomfortable to play. Or perhaps just something not quite as large as the Schilke 60 but larger than the JK. The nominal corollary to a Schilke 60 in Doug's nomenclature would probably be a LB114/M/M8 which is pretty large. Maybe something like an LB112mW/K/K8 would split the difference between the two pieces giving you a little crisper articulations in the middle register but still retain some of the ease of the lower register. I'm less familiar with other brands as I've played on his for so long but there are probably others that split that difference too.
- hornbuilder
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: May 02, 2018
A rim really shouldn't be "painful" on any way. You may need to consider how much mouthpiece pressure you're using when you play, and learn to use the embouchure muscles to support themselves, as opposed to relying on the mouthpiece rim.
- MStarke
- Posts: 1031
- Joined: Jan 01, 2019
Maybe the easiest solution - depending on where you live - would be to get a Klier simply with the same rim, but deeper cup and bore. There is more than enough choice http://josefklier.de/mouthpieces/trombone/?lang=en
- JonTheCadet
- Posts: 72
- Joined: May 28, 2018
[quote="GabeLangfur"]You can do this very easily with Doug Elliott, but you say you want to stick with a one-piece mouthpiece.
In that case, you can do something custom from a number of makers, including Greg Black, Karl Hammond, and Schilke itself.
If you're interested in stainless steel or titanium, the Giddings Chinook and Don Harwood mouthpieces are both about that size with wider rims.
The Ferguson LS, a copy of the Minick LS, is comparable but a little smaller than a 60, with a wide rim and a heavy blank.
You might try the Yamaha Yeo mouthpiece (the replica version is not expensive), which is not a wide rim but has a contour that feels wider and more comfortable than a 60.[/quote]
I have seen on Facebook that someone has ordered a 60 with a 52D-shaped wide rim, cut with a tuba blank. The rim was marked 60EK. I suppose it has something to do with Kleinhammer?
I have no idea how stainless steel mouthpiece plays. Now that Loud has gone berserk, Giddings seems to be the only major manufacturer of stainless steel mouthpieces (please enlighten me in this matter). Then again, we have the 'lead is bad for you so play our mouthpieces' shite show and I have simply no time for people like them.
I could possibly order a Yeo mouthpiece but how much smaller is it compared to an actual 60? Is it more of a 1G mouthpiece than a 60 mouthpiece? Also, I'm 'on the other side of the pond' so I don't think I will have much access to any Ferguson mouthpiece anytime soon. Laskey 90D seems quite popular over EU.
I have asked my tech for an enquiry to Monette for a BT1L with a BT4 rim. No reply yet.
I am heading to Berlin quite soon in the near future so I guess I should look into the German makers.
Best regards,
Jon
In that case, you can do something custom from a number of makers, including Greg Black, Karl Hammond, and Schilke itself.
If you're interested in stainless steel or titanium, the Giddings Chinook and Don Harwood mouthpieces are both about that size with wider rims.
The Ferguson LS, a copy of the Minick LS, is comparable but a little smaller than a 60, with a wide rim and a heavy blank.
You might try the Yamaha Yeo mouthpiece (the replica version is not expensive), which is not a wide rim but has a contour that feels wider and more comfortable than a 60.[/quote]
I have seen on Facebook that someone has ordered a 60 with a 52D-shaped wide rim, cut with a tuba blank. The rim was marked 60EK. I suppose it has something to do with Kleinhammer?
I have no idea how stainless steel mouthpiece plays. Now that Loud has gone berserk, Giddings seems to be the only major manufacturer of stainless steel mouthpieces (please enlighten me in this matter). Then again, we have the 'lead is bad for you so play our mouthpieces' shite show and I have simply no time for people like them.
I could possibly order a Yeo mouthpiece but how much smaller is it compared to an actual 60? Is it more of a 1G mouthpiece than a 60 mouthpiece? Also, I'm 'on the other side of the pond' so I don't think I will have much access to any Ferguson mouthpiece anytime soon. Laskey 90D seems quite popular over EU.
I have asked my tech for an enquiry to Monette for a BT1L with a BT4 rim. No reply yet.
I am heading to Berlin quite soon in the near future so I guess I should look into the German makers.
Best regards,
Jon
- JonTheCadet
- Posts: 72
- Joined: May 28, 2018
[quote="Matt K"]Remember that with a mouthpiece, there isn't a magic bullet and some of what you like about the 60 might be because of the narrower rim. (E.g. every design choice is a trade off to some degree -- I find that I have similar characteristics of sound on wide vs. narrow rims to your description.) Which is to say that you might also want to consider one of Doug's mW series (medium wide) which might be able to give you some of the characteristics of both without being uncomfortable to play. Or perhaps just something not quite as large as the Schilke 60 but larger than the JK. The nominal corollary to a Schilke 60 in Doug's nomenclature would probably be a LB114/M/M8 which is pretty large. Maybe something like an LB112mW/K/K8 would split the difference between the two pieces giving you a little crisper articulations in the middle register but still retain some of the ease of the lower register. I'm less familiar with other brands as I've played on his for so long but there are probably others that split that difference too.[/quote]
I'm thinking of something perhaps like a XB114Wround/M+/M10? The Klier does have a very wide rim, and I have once drilled out a Yamaha 59 and that expanded the low range.
I'm thinking of something perhaps like a XB114Wround/M+/M10? The Klier does have a very wide rim, and I have once drilled out a Yamaha 59 and that expanded the low range.
- ssking2b
- Posts: 487
- Joined: Sep 29, 2018
So many people pontificating! Here is a simple answer: the Marcinkiewicz 105 (they call it a contra bass trombone mouthpiece) is a copy of Kleinhammer' s mouthpiece that R Shilke made for him on an Eb tuba blank, so it has/had a wide rim. This was put into production by Shilke, made on the blanks he normally used for bass trombone, and was named the Shilke 60. The Marcinkiewicz has the wife rim you want!
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
I'm thinking of something perhaps like a XB114Wround/M+/M10? The Klier does have a very wide rim, and I have once drilled out a Yamaha 59 and that expanded the low range.
XB could work as well. My thoughts are if you are having 'pain' in the middle register, something slightly smaller but not as small as the other piece you have might do the trick. Doug is going to be the best resource for his pieces. He's on the road at the moment but I'd email him and see what he says. I'd go smaller personally given what you'd said but nto TOO much smaller. Probably K or L depth, so just a touch smaller than the 60. Then order 2-3 rims and then return the ones that don't work. Doug is really easy to work with for returns.
- Specialk3700
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
Yamaha 60
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I'm not actually on the road, just super busy with gigs.
"Pain the the midrange" could be something wrong, not necessarily mouthpiece related. Although some people definitely need wide rims.
"Pain the the midrange" could be something wrong, not necessarily mouthpiece related. Although some people definitely need wide rims.
- Inspector71
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I have seen on Facebook that someone has ordered a 60 with a 52D-shaped wide rim, cut with a tuba blank. The rim was marked 60EK. I suppose it has something to do with Kleinhammer?
Severals years back Ed told me about that mouthpiece he had Schilke make for him.
It was a wide flat-ish type rim with an inside bite very similar to the bite on Herseth's Tpt mouthpiece.
He said it played very well and helped with accuracy, he thought.
Like I said, this was years ago so I could be remembering incorrectly but I think this is the story.
Good luck to the OP on the mouthpiece search.
MDM
- GBP
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Jun 05, 2018
[quote="GabeLangfur"]You can do this very easily with Doug Elliott, but you say you want to stick with a one-piece mouthpiece.
In that case, you can do something custom from a number of makers, including Greg Black, Karl Hammond, and Schilke itself.
If you're interested in stainless steel or titanium, the Giddings Chinook and Don Harwood mouthpieces are both about that size with wider rims.
The Ferguson LS, a copy of the Minick LS, is comparable but a little smaller than a 60, with a wide rim and a heavy blank.
You might try the Yamaha Yeo mouthpiece (the replica version is not expensive), which is not a wide rim but has a contour that feels wider and more comfortable than a 60.[/quote]
Giddings Nor Easter has a wide rim. It looks wider than both the Harwood and the NYO. I might be larger than a 60 though
In that case, you can do something custom from a number of makers, including Greg Black, Karl Hammond, and Schilke itself.
If you're interested in stainless steel or titanium, the Giddings Chinook and Don Harwood mouthpieces are both about that size with wider rims.
The Ferguson LS, a copy of the Minick LS, is comparable but a little smaller than a 60, with a wide rim and a heavy blank.
You might try the Yamaha Yeo mouthpiece (the replica version is not expensive), which is not a wide rim but has a contour that feels wider and more comfortable than a 60.[/quote]
Giddings Nor Easter has a wide rim. It looks wider than both the Harwood and the NYO. I might be larger than a 60 though
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="GBP"]Giddings Nor Easter has a wide rim. It looks wider than both the Harwood and the NYO. I might be larger than a 60 though[/quote]
By quite a bit.
By quite a bit.
- BassBoneFL
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Aug 14, 2018
[quote="Inspector71"]<QUOTE>
I have seen on Facebook that someone has ordered a 60 with a 52D-shaped wide rim, cut with a tuba blank. The rim was marked 60EK. I suppose it has something to do with Kleinhammer?
[/quote]
Severals years back Ed told me about that mouthpiece he had Schilke make for him.
It was a wide flat-ish type rim with an inside bite very similar to the bite on Herseth's Tpt mouthpiece.
He said it played very well and helped with accuracy, he thought.
Like I said, this was years ago so I could be remembering incorrectly but I think this is the story.
Good luck to the OP on the mouthpiece search.
MDM
</QUOTE>
You are correct on that. He had that made around the same time as Micha Davis (who was in Chicago takig lessons) and I had simialr ones made around 1984-ish. I still have 3 of them.
I have seen on Facebook that someone has ordered a 60 with a 52D-shaped wide rim, cut with a tuba blank. The rim was marked 60EK. I suppose it has something to do with Kleinhammer?
[/quote]
Severals years back Ed told me about that mouthpiece he had Schilke make for him.
It was a wide flat-ish type rim with an inside bite very similar to the bite on Herseth's Tpt mouthpiece.
He said it played very well and helped with accuracy, he thought.
Like I said, this was years ago so I could be remembering incorrectly but I think this is the story.
Good luck to the OP on the mouthpiece search.
MDM
</QUOTE>
You are correct on that. He had that made around the same time as Micha Davis (who was in Chicago takig lessons) and I had simialr ones made around 1984-ish. I still have 3 of them.