Denis (one “N”) Wick?
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
I was at my repairman’s shop a couple of days ago having some minor maintenance performed. He scandalously undercharged for his work and I somewhat guiltily ended up buying a Denis Wick cup/straight mute and some rotor oil that he recommended.
Inside the box was a flyer from the Wick Corp that said this sort of thing:
“Denis Wick cup mutes have perfect intonation ...the trombone and bass models have absolutely no bad notes” (trumpets and corners are sol I guess
On trb mpcs: “There is a characteristic clarity, warmth and beauty of sound which no other maker has been able to match. Intonation and flexibility have been brought to a state of perfection which has helped create the highest standard of trombone playing ever...” (Ever!)
The 0AL is described as “Super-large for strong advanced players” and “similar to a Schilke 59/60 VB 1G”. (The published specs have it a little smaller than a 1 1/4.)
I’m playing some 1 1/4 - sized mpcs these days, trying to decide between them. The Wick has its virtues, especially after I got used to the shape of the rim. It can do dark without much cost to range and flexibility.
Generally, I don’t see a lot of Wick-love in these parts. What do y’all think of the Wick line?
Inside the box was a flyer from the Wick Corp that said this sort of thing:
“Denis Wick cup mutes have perfect intonation ...the trombone and bass models have absolutely no bad notes” (trumpets and corners are sol I guess
On trb mpcs: “There is a characteristic clarity, warmth and beauty of sound which no other maker has been able to match. Intonation and flexibility have been brought to a state of perfection which has helped create the highest standard of trombone playing ever...” (Ever!)
The 0AL is described as “Super-large for strong advanced players” and “similar to a Schilke 59/60 VB 1G”. (The published specs have it a little smaller than a 1 1/4.)
I’m playing some 1 1/4 - sized mpcs these days, trying to decide between them. The Wick has its virtues, especially after I got used to the shape of the rim. It can do dark without much cost to range and flexibility.
Generally, I don’t see a lot of Wick-love in these parts. What do y’all think of the Wick line?
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I play a Wick 4BL on my symphonic tenor, a 4BS on my Bach 36, and keep a 4BL in the bag with my bass in case I need to cover tenor parts.
Up until I got my Doug Elliott tenor setups I played Wick for about 15 years.
Never had an opportunity to try the Wick bass sizes, though.
Also use Wick cups on both tenor and bass. Note; the tenor has a "bad note" down at D below the bass staff. Haven't found the one on the bass mute.
Up until I got my Doug Elliott tenor setups I played Wick for about 15 years.
Never had an opportunity to try the Wick bass sizes, though.
Also use Wick cups on both tenor and bass. Note; the tenor has a "bad note" down at D below the bass staff. Haven't found the one on the bass mute.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Good mutes, especially if you need one for alto.
Mouthpiece design is way behind the times, but that doesn't mean they aren't the best choice for many people/settings.
We all owe a lot to Denis Wick, the person.
Mouthpiece design is way behind the times, but that doesn't mean they aren't the best choice for many people/settings.
We all owe a lot to Denis Wick, the person.
- Pre59
- Posts: 372
- Joined: May 12, 2018
I'm on my third DW 9BS mp, I've never cared much for their smaller pieces but this one just works. The next larger size 7CS feels too "splatty" and the high range is unbalanced on my small horns.
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]Good mutes, especially if you need one for alto.
Mouthpiece design is way behind the times, but that doesn't mean they aren't the best choice for many people/settings.
We all owe a lot to Denis Wick, the person.[/quote]
Can you explain?
Mouthpiece design is way behind the times, but that doesn't mean they aren't the best choice for many people/settings.
We all owe a lot to Denis Wick, the person.[/quote]
Can you explain?
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="Bach5G"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="86038" time="1558899403" user_id="3642">
Good mutes, especially if you need one for alto.
Mouthpiece design is way behind the times, but that doesn't mean they aren't the best choice for many people/settings.
We all owe a lot to Denis Wick, the person.[/quote]
Can you explain?
</QUOTE>
Most of them were designed 40, 50+ years ago. Not to say they can't be good (like old Bachs, for instance), but things have moved on a bit.
I have 6 Wicks in my drawer right now... not using any of them.
Good mutes, especially if you need one for alto.
Mouthpiece design is way behind the times, but that doesn't mean they aren't the best choice for many people/settings.
We all owe a lot to Denis Wick, the person.[/quote]
Can you explain?
</QUOTE>
Most of them were designed 40, 50+ years ago. Not to say they can't be good (like old Bachs, for instance), but things have moved on a bit.
I have 6 Wicks in my drawer right now... not using any of them.
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
Okay, but what do you mean by "things have moved on a bit" in terms of mouthpiece design? Size-wise, certainly one would not now describe a 1 & 1/4-size mpc as "super large". And it's not zirconium or titanium, I get that.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="Bach5G" post_id="86106" time="1558981445" user_id="2999">
Can you explain?[/quote]
Most of them were designed 40, 50+ years ago. Not to say they can't be good (like old Bachs, for instance), but things have moved on a bit.
I have 6 Wicks in my drawer right now... not using any of them.
</QUOTE>
Bachs were designed some 80-90 years ago, yet we still play them.
Can you explain?[/quote]
Most of them were designed 40, 50+ years ago. Not to say they can't be good (like old Bachs, for instance), but things have moved on a bit.
I have 6 Wicks in my drawer right now... not using any of them.
</QUOTE>
Bachs were designed some 80-90 years ago, yet we still play them.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="BGuttman"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob" post_id="86109" time="1558981920" user_id="3131">
Most of them were designed 40, 50+ years ago. Not to say they can't be good (like old Bachs, for instance), but things have moved on a bit.
I have 6 Wicks in my drawer right now... not using any of them.[/quote]
Bachs were designed some 80-90 years ago, yet we still play them.
</QUOTE>
Most of them were designed 40, 50+ years ago. Not to say they can't be good (like old Bachs, for instance), but things have moved on a bit.
I have 6 Wicks in my drawer right now... not using any of them.[/quote]
Bachs were designed some 80-90 years ago, yet we still play them.
</QUOTE>
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="Bach5G"]Can you explain?[/quote]
Sure! The designs, other than the classic blank, all favor very heavy mass around the base of the cup and in some cases around the top as well. This was moderately popular in the late 90s when trombones were just getting heavier and heavier and bigger and bigger and playing was getting louder and louder. There is still a place for that. Monette heavily capitalized on the concept as well, and you can still buy a Megatone from Bach ... but I've never even seen one of those in real life.
The Wick classic designs are good but you get what you get as far as rims, backbores, and cup shapes go -- they either work or they don't. But any mouthpiece is like that.
I don't see many people playing excessively heavy mouthpieces these days. Doesn't fit what most players are going for any more. I hesitate to talk about the large diameter, small cup phenomenon (or narrow diameter, deep cup), but I believe that is where modern design is at, and the Wick shop is not making or designing those. You can fit a mouthpiece to your face and have it do whatever you want, these days.
FWIW, Wick's 4AL was built out of what was considered a bass trombone/euph mouthpiece back in the 60s, so he was trying to do the same thing ... but he basically stopped at the 4AL size because it worked for him. Rims seem to be getting bigger ... or at least more customized, and cups smaller and differently countoured to fit the rim. So ... yeah, Wicks are a bit old fashioned in that they are sticking to old tried and true designs (classic blank) that have limited designs per rim diameter and are heavily invested in overly heavy mouthpieces outside of the classic line.
Sure! The designs, other than the classic blank, all favor very heavy mass around the base of the cup and in some cases around the top as well. This was moderately popular in the late 90s when trombones were just getting heavier and heavier and bigger and bigger and playing was getting louder and louder. There is still a place for that. Monette heavily capitalized on the concept as well, and you can still buy a Megatone from Bach ... but I've never even seen one of those in real life.
The Wick classic designs are good but you get what you get as far as rims, backbores, and cup shapes go -- they either work or they don't. But any mouthpiece is like that.
I don't see many people playing excessively heavy mouthpieces these days. Doesn't fit what most players are going for any more. I hesitate to talk about the large diameter, small cup phenomenon (or narrow diameter, deep cup), but I believe that is where modern design is at, and the Wick shop is not making or designing those. You can fit a mouthpiece to your face and have it do whatever you want, these days.
FWIW, Wick's 4AL was built out of what was considered a bass trombone/euph mouthpiece back in the 60s, so he was trying to do the same thing ... but he basically stopped at the 4AL size because it worked for him. Rims seem to be getting bigger ... or at least more customized, and cups smaller and differently countoured to fit the rim. So ... yeah, Wicks are a bit old fashioned in that they are sticking to old tried and true designs (classic blank) that have limited designs per rim diameter and are heavily invested in overly heavy mouthpieces outside of the classic line.
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
Thanks Harrison. That was helpful. Interesting food for thought.
- blast
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
The Wick 'classic' outer with the thin rim and long and rounded outer is based on a 1920's design by Hawkes, the best British maker of the day. The 'modern' original series was Denis' own design. More modern than Bachs and Schilkes. My up-to-the-minute Zirconium Symington is a copy of a Mt Vernon Bach that is almost 70 years old... with my take on the rim. I don't see the Wicks as particularly old fashioned.... just different. None except the rare 'heavy top' are heavy.
Chris
Chris
- Bach5G
- Posts: 2874
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
[quote="blast"]The Wick 'classic' outer with the thin rim and long and rounded outer is based on a 1920's design by Hawkes...
Chris[/quote]
This is, I think, the "Heritage" model (as distinguished from his "Classic" and his "Heavy Top" models).
Chris[/quote]
This is, I think, the "Heritage" model (as distinguished from his "Classic" and his "Heavy Top" models).
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I have a Denis Wick DW5533 Bass Trombone Cup Mute (with adjustable cup), and a "50th Anniversary" (gold-anodized aluminium) DW5505G Tenor Trombone Straight Mute. Both very nice pieces that seem to allow me to play in tune.
My favorite Wick trombone mouthpieces are gold-plated "Classic" series tenor pieces for small tenor: 12CS for small-bore and 7CS for small-medium bore (both provided by friends who no longer play small-bore tenors ;) ). These don't seem to me to be very far "behind the times" — but then I'm an old (and probably old-fashioned, out-of-date) guy! :idk:
My favorite Wick trombone mouthpieces are gold-plated "Classic" series tenor pieces for small tenor: 12CS for small-bore and 7CS for small-medium bore (both provided by friends who no longer play small-bore tenors ;) ). These don't seem to me to be very far "behind the times" — but then I'm an old (and probably old-fashioned, out-of-date) guy! :idk:
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I love my Wick 3 cornet mouthpiece, gets that British brass band sound I go for better than anything else. I have a few Wick mutes as well (euph travel, bass and tenor adjustable cups, tenor straight) and I love them all.