Difference between a 71H and a 72H?
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
The profile of the bell is different if I remember correctly. The 71h and the 73h shares the same bell profile. I think the 72h has a wider bell-throat. I had to buy a smaller cup to fit the 71h and 73h, that's how I noticed this. When you play a 71h and 73h they also feel more "tenorish" compared to a 72h. The 72h is the same as 70h except rhe 70h is TIS and the 72h is tunibg in bell. I have all those basses stuffed away at the moment so I can't check. This is what I recall from memory. The valve wrap is also different as Aidan said.
/Tom
/Tom
- Kevbach33
- Posts: 295
- Joined: May 29, 2018
I have not had the opportunity to play a 72H yet. I have played on a 71H, however. It does lean towards the "tenor" side, as imsevimse states, especially when compared to the other bass trombone I had access to in high school, which was a Holton TR181. That said, it's still very much a bass trombone. The H&B 171 cup mute should fit the 71H and 73H, but is a potential unknown for the 72H, based on this thread so far.
That's off of my memory. It's been over 8 years since I last played it.
The more medium sized the mouthpiece, the better. This likely goes for both models, and certainly for the 71/73H.
That's off of my memory. It's been over 8 years since I last played it.
The more medium sized the mouthpiece, the better. This likely goes for both models, and certainly for the 71/73H.
- hornbuilder
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: May 02, 2018
The 71, 72 and 73 all share the same bell flare. Tje big difference (other than the obvious valve wrap shape(s) is the slide/bell ratio. The 72 has a longer slide/shorter bell compared to the 71/73.
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
[quote="hornbuilder"]The 71, 72 and 73 all share the same bell flare. Tje big difference (other than the obvious valve wrap shape(s) is the slide/bell ratio. The 72 has a longer slide/shorter bell compared to the 71/73.[/quote]
I had to check the basses and you are right hornbuilder both bells are the same (both need the smaller cup mute). I have compared slides and bell and I can not se there is a difference there. I have put slides next to each other and bells next to each other.
I tested both with the f-valve slide pulled as far as possible and on both the B is possible. Both must have longer slides compared to modern basses.
I removed the f-tuningslides and compared them. The one on the Conn 72h is longer which means it can be pulled a few centimeters more compared to the 71h, but the maximum total length of both valves seems to be equal when I measure with a string. There is a difference in disposition of what is movable and what is not, but I'm not sure which is best and how this can work.
When I play both horns the 71h seems more thight compared to the 72h which is more open. I wonder what else is different? What about lead pipes? The 72h is an Elkhart from -63 and the 71h is an Abilene from -79.
From the pictures you can se there are differences in the tuningslide and valve section where the 71h misses three braces.
I'm thinking the reason to build the 71h like this is it then shares the first valve design with the 73h. Maybe it was cheaper to have one valve design for the first valve. A design that works also when they add the next valve to build a 73h. The 72h and 71h plays different, but is it possible that might not have been their primary intention but a side effect?
The one to the right is the 71h.
I had to check the basses and you are right hornbuilder both bells are the same (both need the smaller cup mute). I have compared slides and bell and I can not se there is a difference there. I have put slides next to each other and bells next to each other.
I tested both with the f-valve slide pulled as far as possible and on both the B is possible. Both must have longer slides compared to modern basses.
I removed the f-tuningslides and compared them. The one on the Conn 72h is longer which means it can be pulled a few centimeters more compared to the 71h, but the maximum total length of both valves seems to be equal when I measure with a string. There is a difference in disposition of what is movable and what is not, but I'm not sure which is best and how this can work.
When I play both horns the 71h seems more thight compared to the 72h which is more open. I wonder what else is different? What about lead pipes? The 72h is an Elkhart from -63 and the 71h is an Abilene from -79.
From the pictures you can se there are differences in the tuningslide and valve section where the 71h misses three braces.
I'm thinking the reason to build the 71h like this is it then shares the first valve design with the 73h. Maybe it was cheaper to have one valve design for the first valve. A design that works also when they add the next valve to build a 73h. The 72h and 71h plays different, but is it possible that might not have been their primary intention but a side effect?
The one to the right is the 71h.
- Kevbach33
- Posts: 295
- Joined: May 29, 2018
It should be noted that the 71/73H also share their valve wrap designs with the larger, TIS 60/62H, likely to reduce costs of developing, and subsequently releasing, 4 bass trombones at the same time.
Tangent
The H&B 171 does NOT fit the 60/62H.
/Tangent
Tangent
The H&B 171 does NOT fit the 60/62H.
/Tangent
- hornbuilder
- Posts: 1384
- Joined: May 02, 2018
Well there you go, never say "never"!!
I spoke about the slide/bell length differences based on having a 72 and 73 next to each other, and seeing the distinct dimension differences of those particular examples. There is obviously some variation!!
I spoke about the slide/bell length differences based on having a 72 and 73 next to each other, and seeing the distinct dimension differences of those particular examples. There is obviously some variation!!
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
[quote="hornbuilder"]Well there you go, never say "never"!![/quote]
Yes, it was possible to dig my basses out. Now I will go look for the 73h, 70h and 62h to inspect them. It's not something I do very often after I got my Holton 169. This will be interesting <EMOJI seq="1f603" tseq="1f603">😃</EMOJI>
/Tom
Yes, it was possible to dig my basses out. Now I will go look for the 73h, 70h and 62h to inspect them. It's not something I do very often after I got my Holton 169. This will be interesting <EMOJI seq="1f603" tseq="1f603">😃</EMOJI>
/Tom
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
The 72h feels a bit larger. The 70h a bit more "snappy" in attack and has another spectra of sound, more colors. I'm thinking it must be the TIS. Both has the B when I pull the f-slide.
This is the 72h on the left and the 70h to the right. Both have the same bell profile and they need the smaller cup. They have not the exact valve design and the braces are little different.
The 73h bell is the same as the 70h, 71h and 72h.
The bell on the 62h has another profile. It needs the larger cup, the cup that most modern basses takes.
The slide is the same length on 71h, 72h and 73h.
The 70h has a 2 cm longer slide compared to the 71h, 72h and 73h and of course can be extended since it has tuning in the slide. The 62h has a slide that is 4 cm shorter than the non TIS slides but can also be extended like the 70h since it has tuning in slide.
As you can see both the 73h and 62h has almost the same valve design or it's the longer goose neck on the 62h that makes them look a little different.
Both these horns came with the second valve in E. The 73h now has the "Stauffer D-slide" that is no longer made and I had Lars Gerdt in Stockholm build me a copy of that D-slide for the 62h.
When played the 73h feels smaller compared to the 62h.
The 62h is the only one that is red brass. The others are all yellow brass.
Here is the 73h to the left and the 62h to the right.
I played the same song "Londonderry Air" in the key of F on all five of them. The 71h and 73h definitely are more "tenorish". The 70h is very colourful. The 72 feels a bit larger. I think the 62h has the largst sound and is also a bit darker. All these horns are a joy to play.
/Tom
This is the 72h on the left and the 70h to the right. Both have the same bell profile and they need the smaller cup. They have not the exact valve design and the braces are little different.
The 73h bell is the same as the 70h, 71h and 72h.
The bell on the 62h has another profile. It needs the larger cup, the cup that most modern basses takes.
The slide is the same length on 71h, 72h and 73h.
The 70h has a 2 cm longer slide compared to the 71h, 72h and 73h and of course can be extended since it has tuning in the slide. The 62h has a slide that is 4 cm shorter than the non TIS slides but can also be extended like the 70h since it has tuning in slide.
As you can see both the 73h and 62h has almost the same valve design or it's the longer goose neck on the 62h that makes them look a little different.
Both these horns came with the second valve in E. The 73h now has the "Stauffer D-slide" that is no longer made and I had Lars Gerdt in Stockholm build me a copy of that D-slide for the 62h.
When played the 73h feels smaller compared to the 62h.
The 62h is the only one that is red brass. The others are all yellow brass.
Here is the 73h to the left and the 62h to the right.
I played the same song "Londonderry Air" in the key of F on all five of them. The 71h and 73h definitely are more "tenorish". The 70h is very colourful. The 72 feels a bit larger. I think the 62h has the largst sound and is also a bit darker. All these horns are a joy to play.
/Tom
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
I started a new thread and put pictures and analysis of my Conn trombones there.[url]https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=10697
/Tom
/Tom
- walldaja
- Posts: 537
- Joined: Jul 11, 2018
[quote="imsevimse"]I started a new thread and put pictures and analysis of my Conn trombones there.[url]https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=10697
/Tom[/quote]
Thanks for adding!
/Tom[/quote]
Thanks for adding!
- mrdeacon
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: May 08, 2018
Others have noted the main differences. Something I've noticed between all of the 7Xh series stuff I've tried is the bell weight. The 72h seems to have a very similar weight bell as the 70h. Pretty thin and very vibrant playing.
The 71h and 73h bells are all over the place, especially the later Texas ones. Some bells are thin like the previous 70h and 72h but some are super duper heavy. I've got a friend with a Texas 71h bell that's almost as thick as a Euph bell! The thing is a tank!
The 71h and 73h bells are all over the place, especially the later Texas ones. Some bells are thin like the previous 70h and 72h but some are super duper heavy. I've got a friend with a Texas 71h bell that's almost as thick as a Euph bell! The thing is a tank!
- Thrawn22
- Posts: 1436
- Joined: Sep 06, 2018
It's the wrap. All 70 series horns (except the 70H because of its tuning in slide and the 73H dual trigger) have the same specs. There will always be slight differences due to hand made construction, but all are the same.
That being said, I will admit the 72H seemed to have a lighter bell than my 71H. Other than that the bell dimensions were the same.
That being said, I will admit the 72H seemed to have a lighter bell than my 71H. Other than that the bell dimensions were the same.
- bigbandbone
- Posts: 602
- Joined: Jan 17, 2019
[quote="mrdeacon"]Others have noted the main differences. Something I've noticed between all of the 7Xh series stuff I've tried is the bell weight. The 72h seems to have a very similar weight bell as the 70h. Pretty thin and very vibrant playing.
The 71h and 73h bells are all over the place, especially the later Texas ones. Some bells are thin like the previous 70h and 72h but some are super duper heavy. I've got a friend with a Texas 71h bell that's almost as thick as a Euph bell! The thing is a tank![/quote]
I worked at the King factory in Eastlake Ohio and was good friends with one of the bell spinners. Bell thickness is pretty much up to the spinners even though they try to be consistent. If the spinner is heavy-handed with the actual spinning and heavy-handed with the emery cloth you get a thin bell. Or if he's pushing to get more pieces to make more $'s on the piece work you wind up with a thicker bell!
The 71h and 73h bells are all over the place, especially the later Texas ones. Some bells are thin like the previous 70h and 72h but some are super duper heavy. I've got a friend with a Texas 71h bell that's almost as thick as a Euph bell! The thing is a tank![/quote]
I worked at the King factory in Eastlake Ohio and was good friends with one of the bell spinners. Bell thickness is pretty much up to the spinners even though they try to be consistent. If the spinner is heavy-handed with the actual spinning and heavy-handed with the emery cloth you get a thin bell. Or if he's pushing to get more pieces to make more $'s on the piece work you wind up with a thicker bell!