The trombone designed by a committee
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
A friend sent me this article about the Martin "Committee" trombones from (apparently) 1939.
You may be interested:
<LINK_TEXT text="https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5-_7UC ... VSOTg/edit">https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5-_7UCbLfDqazJHUlZVeUVSOTg/edit</LINK_TEXT>
You may be interested:
<LINK_TEXT text="https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5-_7UC ... VSOTg/edit">https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5-_7UCbLfDqazJHUlZVeUVSOTg/edit</LINK_TEXT>
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Hold on a minute...
the inner slide tubes are made of nickel steel?
the inner slide tubes are made of nickel steel?
- paulyg
- Posts: 689
- Joined: May 17, 2018
Makes sense... I have a committee deluxe that has some plating wear on the inners, and it looks like there are flecks of rust on them.
- imsevimse
- Posts: 1765
- Joined: Apr 29, 2018
[quote="JohnL"]Hold on a minute...
the inner slide tubes are made of nickel steel?[/quote]
I have that model and the slide is perfect. My horn is in mint condition.
/Tom
the inner slide tubes are made of nickel steel?[/quote]
I have that model and the slide is perfect. My horn is in mint condition.
/Tom
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="paulyg"]Makes sense... I have a committee deluxe that has some plating wear on the inners, and it looks like there are flecks of rust on them.[/quote]
Is it magnetic? Not a conclusive test (LOTS of nickel will make steel non-magnetic), but a start.
Is it magnetic? Not a conclusive test (LOTS of nickel will make steel non-magnetic), but a start.
- timothy42b
- Posts: 1812
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
[quote="JohnL"]<QUOTE author="paulyg" post_id="90407" time="1564072490" user_id="3299">
Makes sense... I have a committee deluxe that has some plating wear on the inners, and it looks like there are flecks of rust on them.[/quote]
Is it magnetic? Not a conclusive test (LOTS of nickel will make steel non-magnetic), but a start.
</QUOTE>
If magnetic, then it's steel. If not, still could be steel. Although I would have thought any steel you could easily draw a tube with would be magnetic.
So, on to the second test. Hit it with a grinding wheel and check the color of the sparks. Steel should give you those characteristic bluish white fireworks clusters.
Makes sense... I have a committee deluxe that has some plating wear on the inners, and it looks like there are flecks of rust on them.[/quote]
Is it magnetic? Not a conclusive test (LOTS of nickel will make steel non-magnetic), but a start.
</QUOTE>
If magnetic, then it's steel. If not, still could be steel. Although I would have thought any steel you could easily draw a tube with would be magnetic.
So, on to the second test. Hit it with a grinding wheel and check the color of the sparks. Steel should give you those characteristic bluish white fireworks clusters.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I used to own a Committee. The inner slide did not appear to be steel. It was too light. Steel the thickness of the metal would have been much heavier.
I would not be surprised if the inner was nickel silver (which is a copper alloy and contains no silver).
Sadly, I no longer own the instrument and can't test it for you.
I would not be surprised if the inner was nickel silver (which is a copper alloy and contains no silver).
Sadly, I no longer own the instrument and can't test it for you.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Most inner slide tubes on pro horns are nickel silver. Possibly a typo?
- timothy42b
- Posts: 1812
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
[quote="BGuttman"]I used to own a Committee. The inner slide did not appear to be steel. It was too light. Steel the thickness of the metal would have been much heavier.
[/quote]
Are you sure?
This chart:
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.machinemfg.com/density-tabl ... um-alloys/">https://www.machinemfg.com/density-table-of-metals-iron-steel-brass-aluminum-alloys/</LINK_TEXT>
lists brass at density of 8.8 and steel at 7.8. If the steel is the same thickness, it should be lighter?
[/quote]
Are you sure?
This chart:
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.machinemfg.com/density-tabl ... um-alloys/">https://www.machinemfg.com/density-table-of-metals-iron-steel-brass-aluminum-alloys/</LINK_TEXT>
lists brass at density of 8.8 and steel at 7.8. If the steel is the same thickness, it should be lighter?
- CharlieB
- Posts: 434
- Joined: Mar 29, 2018
Many thanks to Posaunus for the great historic information.
It is possible that Martin inners could have been steel at one time, as steel /nickel alloys were available.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.brighthubengineering.com/ma ... eel-alloy/">https://www.brighthubengineering.com/manufacturing-technology/74149-production-and-use-of-nickel-steel-alloy/</LINK_TEXT>
It is possible that Martin inners could have been steel at one time, as steel /nickel alloys were available.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.brighthubengineering.com/ma ... eel-alloy/">https://www.brighthubengineering.com/manufacturing-technology/74149-production-and-use-of-nickel-steel-alloy/</LINK_TEXT>
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Nickel-iron alloys have been available for a long time as "stainless steel". Commonly used in surgical instruments and where corrosion is a problem.
The issue with using any iron alloy is the greater difficulty in drawing tubes (although most heat exchangers use stainless steel tubes) and the inner being quite rigid possibly creating a problem with the more flexible brass outer slide. It's also much harder and thus may make a rather strident tone.
Just noticed: I'm playing my Committee in my avatar :cool:
The issue with using any iron alloy is the greater difficulty in drawing tubes (although most heat exchangers use stainless steel tubes) and the inner being quite rigid possibly creating a problem with the more flexible brass outer slide. It's also much harder and thus may make a rather strident tone.
Just noticed: I'm playing my Committee in my avatar :cool:
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="BGuttman"]I used to own a Committee. The inner slide did not appear to be steel. It was too light. Steel the thickness of the metal would have been much heavier.[/quote]
Steel – even with lots of nickel – is not denser than brass or "nickel silver."
Therefore a steel slide should not be any heavier than other slides with similar wall thickness. :idk:
Steel – even with lots of nickel – is not denser than brass or "nickel silver."
Therefore a steel slide should not be any heavier than other slides with similar wall thickness. :idk: