Cup Mute Choice for Upcoming Recording Session

Kevbach33 · by **Kevbach33** » 2019-07-29 12:52 p.m.

In about a month or so, the jazz band I'm playing in will be doing a recording session. It would be nice if everyone in the trombone section was already playing the same brand of cup mutes, but it's an even split. 1st and bass are on Denis Wick, and 2nd and 3rd (myself) use Humes and Berg.

I'm leaning toward replacing my cup mute with a Denis Wick anyway, as I've heard excellent things about it, but that means that 2nd bone would stick out. Being the newest member I don't feel like I have played with the group long enough to have as big of a say as I'd like.

I'm looking for advice on whether or not I should make the switch anyway, or if perhaps the section should come together for a solution. Of course, this would also apply to all future performances.

What would the Trombone Chat community do here?

pompatus · by **pompatus** » 2019-07-29 1:03 p.m.

Ideally, the section should collaborate. If the opportunity to work it out together doesn’t present itself, I would follow the lead player’s choice.

Redthunder · by **Redthunder** » 2019-07-29 3:08 p.m.

Not everything needs to sound identical to blend well.

What’s more important is finding the appropriate depth that the mute goes into your bell to get a great sound.

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2019-07-29 3:28 p.m.

Maybe check with the director or whoever is heading up the recording session. The Humes & Berg gets the vintage low- fidelity sound in a way that the more modern cup mutes can.

ngrinder · 2019-07-29 7:13 p.m.

I’d do what the lead player is doing. They’re setting the sound of the section, and “next in command,” as they say. I personally prefer the sound of and H&B though.

baileyman · by **baileyman** » 2019-07-29 8:00 p.m.

If it's important, the band should buy the mutes.

ExZacLee · by **ExZacLee** » 2019-08-04 3:51 p.m.

In my experience the great majority of instances involving the writing for cup mute in jazz ensembles (i.e., big bands) the H&B type cup is usually the preferred cup. Exceptions extend to more modern writing were a small handful of arrangers will actually suggest different brands of mutes. I've indicated for Facet mutes on those few occasions I've had people who had them - it's a very different sound.

That said, if the section blend is good, it doesn't really matter as long as everyone is blending and balancing with the ensemble.

With OKCJO it's fairly common for us to have multiple cups represented in the section. With my student ensembles I encourage H&B mutes when it's practical.

dukesboneman · by **dukesboneman** » 2019-08-04 7:10 p.m.

I don`t really think it matters. It`s more about how you play as a section. You don`t all play the same horn or the same mouthpiece, why should all play the same mute?

Kevbach33 · by **Kevbach33** » 2019-08-04 8:51 p.m.

Thanks for all the replies.

It's every man for himself, regarding equipment. Thought I'd get that one out of the way first.

What everyone is saying regarding blend and intonation is what i also gathered after talking with the bass trombonist. I still want the lead's thoughts, but he's on vacation.

And yes, we're all on different horns. Two play Getzen trombones, but they're from very different eras.

I understand that the preferred cup mute sound for most jazz pieces is from the H&B type. Not everyone is going to want that type of covered sound though, and I myself would like to follow the lead. The vibe I'm getting is, "Play what feels comfortable for you to get the job done."

I'll think a little more before I decide on buying a new mute.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2019-08-04 10:17 p.m.

I'd be interested to hear other opinions, but in general I think bass trombone is an exception. The sound of bass trombone with a Humes & Berg cup mute is basically lost in a section. If there is a different cup that sounds better and louder, I'd use it on bass and keep the tenors on H&B. But... I don't know what cup mute to suggest.

ExZacLee · by **ExZacLee** » 2019-08-05 10:01 a.m.

I'd say that depends on the writing. Older big band stuff where the 4th part is just a 4th part, you'd still see H&Bs. On modern writing with the bass functioning as a true bass part, or as a separate part, it's usually a bigger metal mute like the Jo-ral.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2019-08-05 12:25 p.m.

I know you still "see" H&B... But nobody hears it, on a bass. Good reason to use something especially for more independent parts.

swissbone · by **swissbone** » 2019-08-05 5:22 p.m.

I recommend the Tools4Winds Cup mute for Bass trombone.

Compared to the H&B, the Double valve notes actually Center. Its made of wood. The Sound is much more audible but still blends Well with the H&B. Something soft yet clear and present.

swissbone · by **swissbone** » 2019-08-05 5:26 p.m.

PS: also cutting down the Cup Part of the mute helps. ( Or at least removing that rubber Thing) Thats my goto Hack for being heard when playing bucket: Take a Tenor mute and bend the upper Part of the clamps so it fits your bass Bell

In Short: just dont Cover all of your Bell

BurckhardtS · by **BurckhardtS** » 2019-08-08 5:29 p.m.

I have always sworn by the Wick metal cup mute, but I'm not totally sure on bass trombone how well it works. The Wick is nice because it has the detachable cup, and it fits both in my large bore and small bore, so I can use it as a small bore straight mute, since I don't actually own one. My large straight doesn't fit.

Some mutes on bass trombone are pretty useless because some mutes tend to make the lower end of the horn worse, which makes most of the register the bass plays in extremely finicky.

Speaking of, I love softones. I wish everyone used them instead of buckets, especially the clamp-on-bell kind that is impossible to put on quickly and falls off if someone breathes in the next room over.

ssking2b · by **ssking2b** » 2019-08-14 12:47 p.m.

I think this discussion is some what silly. All 4 of you in the section have different sounds, and so will sound different despite the cup mutes being the same or not. That being said, if the PRODUCER wants everyone on the same mutes, that's the end of the story. Aside from all that, I prefer the Denis Wick mutes first and foremost on both bass and tenor. I do use a soft tone mute on both horns for live performance, but will carry Joral buckets to the studio.

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Cup Mute Choice for Upcoming Recording Session