Holton TR181 v Rath R900

Johnbob · by **Johnbob** » 2019-08-24 6:06 a.m.

I'm considering an upgrade from my 421g and am thinking about a TR181 or a Rath R900. Most of my playing is in a big band. Any advice please?

Specialk3700 · by **Specialk3700** » 2019-08-24 9:19 a.m.

I haven't played a r900 but a tr181 can definitely bark. But, they're definitely hard to play. The tuning on mine was all over the place and it didn't play very even in any range. It had a fantastic sound though.

Mv2541 · by **Mv2541** » 2019-08-24 10:47 a.m.

R900 or Shires Q

Johnbob · by **Johnbob** » 2019-08-24 10:58 a.m.

[quote="Mv2541"]R900 or Shires Q[/quote]

Thanks. Is this related to an open/closed wrap? What's the difference when playing. I've only played my Yahsma.

Thanks

WeekendWailer · by **WeekendWailer** » 2019-08-24 11:20 a.m.

I haven't played the Rath but I have a Tr-181 as my bass mostly because they are out there and cheap (for a bass bone). I think a lot of high school jazz bands use them for that reason. I would agree on the tuning issue. Mine has pretty wide slots regardless of mouthpieces I have tried. For jazz, I think it could work since I can make it edgy when I want but it isn't always like that. Some people complain the horn is stuffy but that only bothers me when I am playing with a mute and through the valves. Then I really notice the difference in blow. Something to consider since jazz uses mutes a lot.

etbone · by **etbone** » 2019-08-24 11:33 a.m.

I don't know, if I'd buy a new one. Old ones, are available, at bargain prices. Much like the old Benge 290s, they fill a niche. There's a couple on ebay, you better hurry, online retailers.

I didn't find mine hard to play. Yes, you have to adjust to them (any horn really) I picked mine, over a newer Yamaha YSB-622. One caveat is rotor size. Holton's rotors are small, by today's standards. They have to be kept, adjusted. Bigger valves, are a littler more friendly, to bad adjustment.

Question is are you buying new, or used?

Kevbach33 · by **Kevbach33** » 2019-08-24 2:40 p.m.

What size mouthpiece are you using? The Holton TR181 is pretty sensitive to mouthpiece choice. In particular, in my experience a more moderate size works better to bring the best out of a Holton. That's not to say a larger mouthpiece won't work, but you'll work harder to get the desired results, especially for big band work. I thought I sounded best on a Schilke 59 (already pretty big) since I didn't have access to something smaller during my high school days. It felt better than a 60 (too big for me on that bass), that's for sure.

If you use a big piece, the Rath R900 or similar modern bass trombone may be a better fit. But i have no experience with that horn so caveat emptor.

Johnbob · by **Johnbob** » 2019-08-24 3:32 p.m.

[quote="Kevbach33"]What size mouthpiece are you using? The Holton TR181 is pretty sensitive to mouthpiece choice. In particular, in my experience a more moderate size works better to bring the best out of a Holton. That's not to say a larger mouthpiece won't work, but you'll work harder to get the desired results, especially for big band work. I thought I sounded best on a Schilke 59 (already pretty big) since I didn't have access to something smaller during my high school days. It felt better than a 60 (too big for me on that bass), that's for sure.

If you use a big piece, the Rath R900 or similar modern bass trombone may be a better fit. But i have no experience with that horn so caveat emptor.[/quote]

Thanks

2G

Mv2541 · by **Mv2541** » 2019-08-24 5:12 p.m.

[quote="Johnbob"]<QUOTE author="Mv2541" post_id="92376" time="1566658067" user_id="247">R900 or Shires Q[/quote]

Thanks. Is this related to an open/closed wrap? What's the difference when playing. I've only played my Yahsma.

Thanks
</QUOTE>

They are just different flavors of horn in general, but each balanced pretty well in their own right. If you are planning to buy new I would try and play both and see which one you agree with more.

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2019-08-24 5:51 p.m.

Old 181's were good and reliable, played better in tune than most horns and made a good sound with the right player and mouthpiece. Shame it sounds like they went so wrong....

Chris

Johnbob · by **Johnbob** » 2019-08-25 5:09 a.m.

Beginning to think the TR181 might not be the best horn. Was looking at a used one for around £2300. Yamaha refer to the 421 as an intermediate bone and so wanted to step up to the next level. What are the best alternatives? Am I better keeping the 421 and my money?

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2019-08-25 8:07 a.m.

A good 421 is very fine indeed. Many high end horns do not play as well.

Chris

Specialk3700 · by **Specialk3700** » 2019-08-25 9:42 a.m.

[quote="FOSSIL"]Old 181's were good and reliable, played better in tune than most horns and made a good sound with the right player and mouthpiece. Shame it sounds like they went so wrong....

Chris[/quote]

I had a well kept 181 with a serial number dating it to 1979. I don't think it's about the age. I think the consistency from holton was never very good.

tctb · by **tctb** » 2019-08-25 10:02 a.m.

Stay with the 421 unless you have found something that justifies the extra money!

Lastbone · by **Lastbone** » 2019-08-29 11:42 a.m.

Hey there,

I don't know about anyone else, but I've never played or heard a bad Holton 181. Hard to go too far wrong there, especially for the money.

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Holton TR181 v Rath R900