Who IN THEIR RIGHT MIND plays a 1.5 sized Bass mouthpiece? (August 2019)

RoscoTrombone · by **RoscoTrombone** » 2019-08-26 5:51 a.m.

I've always gotten by just fine on a 2G so can't see an issue with a 1.5G. I'm currently trying out the Symington 1.5G too.....only had it for a few days but it seems promising and I don't mind having to work harder at certain things which you automatically get with a bucket sized piece.

Ross

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2019-08-26 9:41 a.m.

Ah ha ! an interesting move Ross... you can always drop by and try my Zirconium version.

I seriously hope that we don't repeat the reams of pages created on the old TTF, though people tend to get fired up about this area, so who knows?

You have to learn how to make this size of mouthpiece work in the low register and fewer folk seem inclined to do this today but if you do, a great sound comes with it for free....

Chris

Oslide · by **Oslide** » 2019-08-26 11:28 a.m.

Well, it's certainly worth mentioning the link to that epic thread started by Blast in 2006 which the present subject line refers to.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php? ... mind#p2477">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=375&p=2477&hilit=mind#p2477</LINK_TEXT>

:good:

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2019-08-26 1:16 p.m.

Who would have thought that in 13 years I would have gone from blast to fossil.....

...most of you, probably...

Chris

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2019-08-26 1:20 p.m.

I thought Matt had fixed the Blast account. No?

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2019-08-26 1:40 p.m.

[quote="BGuttman"]I thought Matt had fixed the Blast account. No?[/quote]

Yeah, I think he did but the password situation is a bit of a mess... and I quite like being fossil....

Hope your wife enjoyed the pops concert.... I did.

Chris

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2019-08-26 1:50 p.m.

[quote="FOSSIL"]<QUOTE author="BGuttman" post_id="92549" time="1566840042" user_id="53">
I thought Matt had fixed the Blast account. No?[/quote]

Yeah, I think he did but the password situation is a bit of a mess... and I quite like being fossil....

Hope your wife enjoyed the pops concert.... I did.

Chris
</QUOTE>

She did. One of these days I'd love to meet up with you and chat; maybe even get a lesson on bass trombone. Listened to the Beethoven 9 and my second favorite bass tromboone solo (they rebroadcast the afternoon performance Sunday evening). The solo? In the 2nd movement. That D. Comes up 3 times. :)

Back on topic, I play a 1 1/2 G sized mouthpiece when I haven't been playing a lot of bass. I also have a Mount Vernon, which I got when I was in High School and my father went into Manny's to get it for me. At the time Bach was in Mount Vernon. Who knew? :cool:

fwbassbone · by **fwbassbone** » 2019-08-26 1:59 p.m.

I've personally started using smaller mouthpieces in the last couple of years. More 1 1/4 sized but I have noticed that as you get used to a slightly smaller mouthpiece it makes going even smaller much easier. The problem is finding a time to make the switch when you don't have any playing responsibilities.

chromebone · by **chromebone** » 2019-08-26 2:54 p.m.

Ed Kleinhammer appeared to be sane.

tctb · by **tctb** » 2019-08-26 2:58 p.m.

[quote="Schlitz"]Okay, time to lob this grenade into the late Summer campfire. BYOB, popcorn, s'mores, and oreos.[/quote]

I play my base trombone with a Bach 1.5 and I am happy with it . Perhaps I am not in my right mind ( according to my wife anyway) !

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2019-08-26 3:34 p.m.

I find I get a better overall result on a 1 1/4G. If I'm playing low on a large tenor or want my bass to sound like a large tenor, I use a Ferguson V, which is close to a 1 1/2G, I think on the slightly smaller side. I generally don't have the need to play "really low", whatever that means. My range on bass almost makes it to pedal F, which is not very low, but low enough for 99% of what I do. I can't read ledger lines below a pedal A anyway.

I also have a Yamaha 60L and a Ferguson L. If I had to pick one mouthpiece, it would be a 1 1/4G.

As was mentioned over in the bass trombone sound thread, different equipment will put you at a certain place along the sound continuum. After a certain size, you're better off with an F contra, because you really can't play with a decent sound much above middle C with the largest equipment. Even if you think you can pull it off, you've probably practiced your ear into submission. I think a tenor player would not like that sound.

MTbassbone · by **MTbassbone** » 2019-08-26 10:54 p.m.

I have had large mouthpieces, but also have come back to shallower mouthpieces. Rim diameters vary for me. I really like the size and shape of the DE J cup, and I usually play it with a 112 or 113 mW rim though. I have a Bach MV 1.5G that I really like. I also like the Griego 2. I think Yamaha used to make a 60B mouthpiece, and I would like to find it to check it out.

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2019-08-27 8:18 a.m.

[quote="chromebone"]Ed Kleinhammer appeared to be sane.[/quote]

The thread that started way back on TTF was in part down to a quote from Kleinhammer that the 1 1/2 size no longer has a place in the symphony orchestra. In the UK there are many pro orchestra players using the 1 1/2 size and even the 2 size and I thought it was an interesting point to talk around.

Chris

Jimprindle · by **Jimprindle** » 2019-08-27 1:11 p.m.

[quote="hyperbolica"]I find I get a better overall result on a 1 1/4G. If I'm playing low on a large tenor or want my bass to sound like a large tenor, I use a Ferguson V, which is close to a 1 1/2G, I think on the slightly smaller side....[/quote]

The Ferguson V is a copy that Kanstul made of the Minick V. I got one of the first Minick V's from Larry Minick who told me that he called it "V" because he copied it from a Mt. Vernon Bach 1 1/2G . The Minick L (which Kanstul copied and made it a Ferguson L) is just a larger version of the V, kind of a 1 1/4G. The Ferguson LS (a copy of the Minick LS that he made for Jeff Reynolds) is kind of a 1G, but better. I use the LS all the time and like it the best. I stupidly sold my Minick V to a student but I still have 2 Minick L's that I got from Larry who let me try 6 of them for a few weeks.

paulyg · by **paulyg** » 2019-08-27 4:08 p.m.

I will say that it is more difficult to melt into the wallpaper when playing a 1.5G on bass- maybe Kleinhammer was referring to scenarios (arguably becoming more and more common) where the trombones are to be seen, not heard? There's lots of room to hide inside a 1G.

I covered our community band's bass trombonist's part last night during rehearsal. She plays a 3062 with a Griego TB-1 (toilet bowl), and not bashfully! Still, I had no problem being heard on a 1.5G. It's a different kind of bass playing, I'd say a kind that's more focused on the result than on the effort.

brtnats · by **brtnats** » 2019-08-27 7:05 p.m.

I do not. My bass (Yamaha 822G) responds better with a larger mouthpiece, so that’s what I use. I keep a 1.5G size in the case to use when the situation allows, but I’m often reaching for that larger mouthpiece.

dukesboneman · by **dukesboneman** » 2019-08-27 9:08 p.m.

I use a Yamaha 59, which is about a 1 1/2 G size and love it

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2019-08-27 11:04 p.m.

[quote="brtnats"]I do not. My bass (Yamaha 822G) responds better with a larger mouthpiece, so that’s what I use. I keep a 1.5G size in the case to use when the situation allows, but I’m often reaching for that larger mouthpiece.[/quote]

You are right... the modern Yamahas were developed with big mouthpieces and sound thin and overly bright with most small mouthpieces.

Chris

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2019-08-28 1:01 a.m.

I played 1.5 sized stuff for a few years in college. Since then I have moved to the big things.

I still have a George Roberts CE Replica, my old Hammonds, and I just picked up one of Phil Teele's mouthpieces (based on a GR design, just a tad bigger). I've also played the new Symingtons a few times, they are really killer!

If I could get away with it, I would absolutely play something smaller. But I find myself limited in many ways by the smaller mouthpiece, and right now it's not in the cards.

brtnats · by **brtnats** » 2019-08-28 8:43 a.m.

[quote="FOSSIL"]<QUOTE author="brtnats" post_id="92661" time="1566947100" user_id="3153">
I do not. My bass (Yamaha 822G) responds better with a larger mouthpiece, so that’s what I use. I keep a 1.5G size in the case to use when the situation allows, but I’m often reaching for that larger mouthpiece.[/quote]

You are right... the modern Yamahas were developed with big mouthpieces and sound thin and overly bright with most small mouthpieces.

Chris
</QUOTE>

Chris,

Very interesting. Since you've had a hand in developing mouthpieces and instruments, could you shed some light on the features an instrument needs in order to be suited for a 1.5G sized mouthpiece? The generic specifications don't give that much differentiation, and I think we'd all like to hear your opinion.

Bloo · by **Bloo** » 2019-08-28 10:41 a.m.

I play on a 1 size for bass, and a 3 size for either size tenor.

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2019-08-28 10:53 a.m.

[quote="brtnats"]<QUOTE author="FOSSIL" post_id="92674" time="1566961446" user_id="7109">

You are right... the modern Yamahas were developed with big mouthpieces and sound thin and overly bright with most small mouthpieces.

Chris[/quote]

Chris,

Very interesting. Since you've had a hand in developing mouthpieces and instruments, could you shed some light on the features an instrument needs in order to be suited for a 1.5G sized mouthpiece? The generic specifications don't give that much differentiation, and I think we'd all like to hear your opinion.
</QUOTE>

That's pretty easy but not helpful or informative.... if the players helping to develop an instrument use large mouthpieces, they make choices that work with those mouthpieces... like Yeo with Yamaha. One of my students complained about how hard it was to get an orchestral sound out of her Yamaha.... she plays a 1 1/2 size mouthpiece.... so I bought in a large Elliott and blew her horn... suddenly it worked well in every way.

Older horns are more likely to have been developed with smaller mouthpieces and therefore may work better with smaller mouthpieces, but this is not a given.... the Bach 50B is very flexible for example.

I told you it was not helpful.

Pretty much every trombone you play is the result of trial and error development... whatever the maker claims.

Chris

MTbassbone · by **MTbassbone** » 2019-08-28 6:35 p.m.

Another oversized 1.5 sized mouthpiece I liked and played on for almost a decade is the Stork 1.5S.

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2019-08-29 1:13 a.m.

I found the Yam Xenos (bass and tenors) kind of heavy and lifeless but can see how a Yeo-sized piece might be necessary to get the most from the horn.

I have the Yam 620g bass, which seems to respond well to a 1 1/2 to 1 1/4-sized mpc. I’m pretty happy using a Kanstul GR and a G Black 1 1/2 (light) these days.

Kevbach33 · by **Kevbach33** » 2019-08-29 3:01 a.m.

I'm in the 1 1/2 size camp as well. Because I don't have a large bore tenor, I tend to focus on a sound that needs to blend with a big band trombone section. Not easy with a 10" bell moose horn. A smaller mouthpiece (or one that's moderate in depth, for bass mouthpieces) gets me in the right direction though. It's the approach to get the desired effect, not necessarily the equipment.

I just play better on not so big of a mouthpiece.

That new Schilke Bill Reichenbach mouthpiece is mighty intriguing to me... Wider cup but not too deep...

islander · by **islander** » 2019-08-29 8:09 a.m.

The ongoing debate about what constitutes "the bass trombone sound" - a subject that touches the metaphysical - is the complicating factor here. I think Aidan said it as well as anybody on some other thread I remember - it´s where you are and the company you keep. As long as I play in big bands and amateur symphony orchestras in Britain, no-one will ever question the use of a 1.5G or a 2G. The classical tenor people I sit next to to play Brahms etc use Conns and Raths using 4G/ 5G size pieces. Me on my R8 and a 2G, or my R9 with a 1.5G sounds to my amateurish ears just fine. I suppose you can argue about whether in the low brass the bass trombone should even try to "blend" with a tuba or not. Complement it for sure, but perhaps not blend. Tomatoes / tomaytoes I guess. As for big bands, it seems to me that when everyone else is playing King 2Bs, you´d do better playing more closely matched equipment, within reason.

I get the impression that US trombonists just use bigger stuff. Tenor players using 3G sized mouthpieces would tend to encourage bass players to play 1G and bigger.

In any event, when I´ve tried spells of playing the Yeo mouthpiece and its ilk, it has always felt like I was I taking myself one step closer to giving myself emphysema. So I just keep my lungs firmly inside my chest cavity, and play 1.5s and 2s! :D

Bill

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2019-08-29 9:24 a.m.

I still usually play my Faxx 1.5G with my Yamaha 612 RII, even though I have a very nice Laskey 85MD. I have to play tenor as well, and the Faxx 1.5G just works better when I'm having to double at lot.

The 85 MD is much more of a "modern" bass piece with a larger throat, so it can take more air if I'm not careful.

Savio · by **Savio** » 2019-08-29 2:26 p.m.

I shouldn't say much because I may have been rambling too much before :shuffle: I play the 1.5 Symington today and also have a Mt Vernon Bach 1 1/2g close to me. Before that I played bigger stuff and did it OK but never got the sound I wanted in my head. Chris made me an eyeopener about ten years ago and since then I tried all 1.5 size mouthpieces there is....so thanks Chris! You both gave me headache, an empty wallet (after trying all) :biggrin: , and a real eyeopener about sound. :good: :good: Just joking a little, but you really open my mind and how to think. You still do with your insight in your posts. I still learn.

10 years ago the recordings of GR was not easy to get. Ray Premru I listen a lot, even in a live concert in Oslo 35 years ago. Fantastic, I even shake his hand but didn't have the chance to talk much to him. I thought then I had to play the big stuff to get close to their sound. Stupid me, I didn't listen my teachers. And I didn't have much clue about anything, nor did I have an open mind. Anyway, never to late, Chris kind of made me think different and Im really thankful!

Today I listen so many good bass trombone players. So many of them today, both known and also unknown amazing players around. I enjoy all of them because they are good musicians. Many have given out own albums. There is also a lot of bad examples if we go to youtube..... :roll: like me... :shuffle: Hahahahah

There is lot of good 1.5 size mouthpieces out there today, like Doug Elliott, Hammond, Greg Black, Griego, some Bach, in short; something for everyone. Just watch the wallet... :cool:

Anyway, too much rambling again :shuffle:

Be happy and enjoy the trombone!! See you soon Chris!

Leif

swissbone · by **swissbone** » 2019-08-30 12:14 a.m.

[quote="Jimprindle"]<QUOTE author="hyperbolica" post_id="92560" time="1566848060" user_id="104">
I find I get a better overall result on a 1 1/4G. If I'm playing low on a large tenor or want my bass to sound like a large tenor, I use a Ferguson V, which is close to a 1 1/2G, I think on the slightly smaller side....[/quote]

The Ferguson V is a copy that Kanstul made of the Minick V. I got one of the first Minick V's from Larry Minick who told me that he called it "V" because he copied it from a Mt. Vernon Bach 1 1/2G . The Minick L (which Kanstul copied and made it a Ferguson L) is just a larger version of the V, kind of a 1 1/4G. The Ferguson LS (a copy of the Minick LS that he made for Jeff Reynolds) is kind of a 1G, but better. I use the LS all the time and like it the best. I stupidly sold my Minick V to a student but I still have 2 Minick L's that I got from Larry who let me try 6 of them for a few weeks.
</QUOTE>

Was the LS mayde for Jeff? There's also the Ferguson Jeff Reynolds which Minick Made for Jeff. Little bigger on the Rim than the L but with a smaller Backbore.

Jimprindle · by **Jimprindle** » 2019-08-30 11:03 a.m.

[quote="swissbone"]

Was the LS mayde for Jeff? There's also the Ferguson Jeff Reynolds which Minick Made for Jeff. Little bigger on the Rim than the L but with a smaller Backbore.[/quote]

I think Ferguson posted on the old trombone bulletin board that the LS was made for Jeff. It wouldn't surprise me that Jeff worked with Larry on the LS and maybe thought it was too big and came up with the JR. At the time Larry (who had known Jeff since high school) was on a yearly retainer from Jeff and (I think) a few other brass players (LA phil and maybe studio guys) to repair and twink various things. The few years I studied with Jeff he was always showing the latest thing Minick had made, resoldered, rebraced etc. almost every lesson.

swissbone · by **swissbone** » 2019-08-31 2:12 a.m.

[quote="Jimprindle"]<QUOTE author="swissbone" post_id="92820" time="1567138472" user_id="3587">

Was the LS mayde for Jeff? There's also the Ferguson Jeff Reynolds which Minick Made for Jeff. Little bigger on the Rim than the L but with a smaller Backbore.[/quote]

I think Ferguson posted on the old trombone bulletin board that the LS was made for Jeff. It wouldn't surprise me that Jeff worked with Larry on the LS and maybe thought it was too big and came up with the JR. At the time Larry (who had known Jeff since high school) was on a yearly retainer from Jeff and (I think) a few other brass players (LA phil and maybe studio guys) to repair and twink various things. The few years I studied with Jeff he was always showing the latest thing Minick had made, resoldered, rebraced etc. almost every lesson.
</QUOTE>

Thank you for the insight!

(And sorry for putting the Chat slightly Off topic)

WGWTR180 · by **WGWTR180** » 2019-09-07 7:25 p.m.

I do. MV 1 and 1/2G.

Savio · by **Savio** » 2019-09-09 3:48 a.m.

I wonder if Jeff Reynolds played a Bach MV 1 1/2g on his LP "the big trombone" before he went to his signature mouthpiece?

Leif

chettbone213 · by **chettbone213** » 2019-09-11 9:04 a.m.

I play on a Wick Heritage 00AL and a buddy of mine plays a G&W Karif. Both bigger than a 1 1/2G and we both love 'em! I still tend to play a 1 1/2 on my tenor from time to time to get a darker and warmer tone.

Backbone · by **Backbone** » 2019-09-12 10:14 p.m.

Well I am back on a 1 1/2 G after switching to a schilke 59 and then to a Yeo.

Truth is that the 1 1/2 is more work but at the same time feels more secure.

Funny thing is when I first tried the 1 1/2 I could not access the trigger register very well at all. Tried for over a year. Quite frankly I thought i could never do it. Switched and boom. Then Yeo: even better but I saw this post another year later and I thought why no try the 1 1/2 again? Low range? There! Sound? Aha...

I am going to work at this and see where it takes me.

WGWTR180 · by **WGWTR180** » 2019-09-13 8:18 a.m.

[quote="Backbone"]Well I am back on a 1 1/2 G after switching to a schilke 59 and then to a Yeo.

Truth is that the 1 1/2 is more work but at the same time feels more secure.

Funny thing is when I first tried the 1 1/2 I could not access the trigger register very well at all. Tried for over a year. Quite frankly I thought i could never do it. Switched and boom. Then Yeo: even better but I saw this post another year later and I thought why no try the 1 1/2 again? Low range? There! Sound? Aha...

I am going to work at this and see where it takes me.[/quote]

I too downsized from a Schilke 59 to a 1 and 1/2G. I transitioned down to a Stork 1.5 and then eventually to a Vincent Bach Corp. 1 and 1/2G to my eventual MV. It took me about 6 months to "figure it out". For what I do it works best. Your experience might be different.

Backbone · by **Backbone** » 2019-09-13 9:19 p.m.

I had been chasing low range for so long and failed to realize that most of the bass and 3rd parts are not even trigger notes. And most of the times it's no lower than a low D. I mean really. I dont think I have played a whole part that was trigger notes. For the added ease of low notes, I was struggling with the majority of notes I do have to play. So that is also part of my reasoning. The majority of the notes I do have to play just sound better and are much easier on that 1 1/2! That makes it worth the work for the low range.

JohntheTheologian · by **JohntheTheologian** » 2019-09-16 11:05 a.m.

I play the 4th part in a big band and there are some charts that are really 4th bone parts that could be played just as well on any tenor. They don't even require a trigger.

Others are true bass bone parts with quite a few low notes, including a fair number of pedal tones.

I've found that my single trigger Yamaha bass bone can handle each equally well with 2 mps. I have a Marcinckiewicz George Roberts model-- same as current 1 1/2G model, I understand-- and a Marc 3. Both have identical rims, but the GR model cup is deeper with a larger throat and backbore. I switch between them, depending on the chart.

The GR-- 1 1/2G sized-- Marc works very well for when I occasionally cover a tuba part in a quintet as I did recently. It gives me an adequately sounding low range and blends well with the rest of the quintet.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2019-09-16 11:10 a.m.

You would be much better off finding a way to play ALL the parts one one mouthpiece.

I play all the parts on my bass trombone with a Doug Elliott setup that approximates a Yamaha Yeo (including a high C in an arrangement of "All of Me"). But you should be able to cover al the parts with one or the other of the two mouthpieces you mention.

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2019-09-16 11:16 a.m.

OTOH, I do a similar thing when I play bass depending on the band I'm in. I just did one with about half 30s-40s era swing charts and the other half 60s-80s stuff with a mix of like Maynard Ferguson charts. Yeah, sure I can play "In the Mood" on my 116/M/M9 but I prefer the blend on a 104N/E/E8. But then I'm not laying down pedal Fs on the latter. If you can switch and it doesn't cause any particular problems I don't see an issue with such switching. Maybe a middle ground piece woudl be better but both of those pieces work better for me than something in the middle for the things that I use them for.

JohntheTheologian · by **JohntheTheologian** » 2019-09-16 11:50 a.m.

Not only does the upper range lie better on the Marc 3 than the 1 1/2G sized GR, but, as Matt K suggested, I think it usually sounds better to play the 4th parts that are more like tenor parts on the Marc 3. Since the rims are identical switching between the 2 works well.

I've only had my bass bone for less than a year and my chops aren't really up to snuff to play the upper range well on the GR, but I think even if they were, I probably would do some switching for the sound. A few charts we have, don't even have a 4th bone part and we just have me double the 3rd part. On those charts the Marc 3 really does sound better.

The Marc 3 is about the size of a Bach 2 and works very well to help my bass bone sound a bit more like a tenor on certain charts.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2019-09-16 12:17 p.m.

You can make it sound more like a tenor with a Bach 4G.

Or why not have two trombones there. A tenor for the 30s and 40s pieces and a bass for the newer stuff? After all, Glenn Miller had 4 Bach 6s, no large horn in sight.

JohntheTheologian · by **JohntheTheologian** » 2019-09-16 12:24 p.m.

Yes, I could make it sound a bit more like a tenor with my Marc 4 which is somewhere between a Bach 4G and 5G or I could bring one of my tenors, but the mp switch would be a less natural feel with the switch in rim sizes and bringing 2 horns is not an option for several of the venues we often play in due to rather cramped quarters.

Switching between the Marc GR and the Marc 3 works well and it's what I think I'll stay with.

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2019-09-16 12:39 p.m.

Mention of the GR mouthpiece prompts me to say the GR isnt actually a 1.5G, its bigger - more like a 1.5GM

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2019-09-16 12:41 p.m.

In my case it's because of limited space usually. Lot of the venues barely have room for one horn on a stand let alone two. Add to that switching between songs with clothespins for outdoor stuff... not much time between tunes! (Yeah, it isn't the most optimal placement of stuff in my opinion... did a gig yesterday where we went straight from Miller to Maynard back-to-back). I just keep my mouthpiece pouch sitting next to me on my mute bag. If I don't make the switch, it's fine. But just swapping out the piece takes a second. Swapping out the horn might take 3 seconds or more depending on the stage setup. If I can even fit it! One of the bands for some odd reason sits 2134 instead of 4312. If I'm sitting on the latter, it isn't nearly as hard. If I'm in the former there's a guitar player right next to me. I don't trust guitar players and where they'll swing their neck next!

trombonedemon · by **trombonedemon** » 2019-09-16 4:49 p.m.

Played on a Wick 2 Al for years cause the inner rim of anything smaller was too small. Had to stop playing tenor because that was also to small and anything bigger would run me into tuning issues.

In fact playing on a to small mouthpiece injured me on the trombone. So, I decided to play Bass Bone the way my professor wanted my too, before he died of Pancreatic Cancer a few years back.

My lip structure also would dictate the switch, some people are simply built for certain instruments. This NorEaster mouthpiece is the widest I could find without getting into Contra territory.

Now I can play with a relaxed embouchure. 1.5 G is like a lead mouthpiece for me and would more likely injure me again or vice versa.

Finetales · by **Finetales** » 2019-09-16 6:37 p.m.

I had to look up what my mouthpieces are equivalent to in Bach-speak. When I bought them I was not searching for a specific diameter, I just tried everything and bought what I liked the best. That ended up being a 1G-sized piece for my daily driver, and a 2G-sized piece when I want something smaller. So I guess I avoided the 1.5 size entirely, at least currently.

[quote="Matt K"]One of the bands for some odd reason sits 2134 instead of 4312.[/quote]

I've played in bands that used 3214 (bari on the inside as well) and I loved it. Sitting in between the lead player and the rhythm section made everything so easy.

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2019-09-17 3:13 p.m.

It's interesting the way this new thread has gone. The original thread started out as more of a philosophic riff around bass trombone mouthpieces and what has happened to them over the last 50 years.... why there has been a vast size change and what that has done and where that leaves the old mouthpieces like the1 1/2G .

No other brass instrument has seen such changes and I was thinking out loud about the whys and wherefores that attach themselves to this story.

Here, people are mostly locked into practical issues and what they have to do to get results in the settings that they find themselves in.

I would maintain that full-time professionals could play the old classic mouthpieces, because at one time, they all did.... and they could equally well play the big modern mouthpieces, because very many, including me, have done at points in their careers.

Professionals can choose, those with more limited time and/or ability try to find equipment that they feel helps them get results..... big mouthpieces can help the less frequent players play low, but smaller mouthpieces may be needed to help endurance and sound. It is a misconception that bigger mouthpieces make a bigger sound.... big mouthpieces can create diffuse sounds in those not able to cope with them and a smaller, less demanding mouthpiece can allow part time players to relax, focus and develop tonal richness.

Just thinking out loud.

I know how I want to sound, I play for my living, I choose a mouthpiece that helps me get the sound I want, end of.

That happens to be in the 1 1/2G size range.

Chris

Backbone · by **Backbone** » 2019-09-17 5:17 p.m.

Nice synopsis.

As a less frequent player, I have found myself in a wind ensemble, surrounded by 14 trumpets, 8 French horns, and 6 Tubas! Not to mention the percussion.

The pressure to play low and loud is immense. ( Think "Dark Knight") Without the foundation of daily playing I was not strong enough to keep up. I also found myself constantly over blowing, or better put, blowing past the note. Air was just too fast, hard and tense.

We have recently acquired a new bass player who is very good - out of high school- but he is playing a cannon. Dual bore and giant piece. Said the yeo was too small! Having him around has given me opportunity to pull back and listen to my sound. When I dropped the 1 1/2G back into my Holton, it made a world of difference in sound and feel.

Savio · by **Savio** » 2019-09-18 5:06 a.m.

[quote="FOSSIL"]It is a misconception that bigger mouthpieces make a bigger sound....

Chris[/quote]

Thats so true! I recently listen Chris playing my 70h with 1.5 mouthpiece. My god he created a powerful, rich big sound I nearly couldn't believe it. Of course he is a professional but still, we have lot to learn from guys like him. Low and high, soft and delicate, big volume, it would definitely fit in any orchestra, band or setting. On a 70h!!

What I dont understand is why so many choose sizes close to contrabass mouthpiece? It can't sound right? Maybe for some few pro that work hard at it but for most of us mortal, I doubt it?

Everyone can make a 1.5 size work if they have a positive relaxed attitude and work at it. There is no shortcut. And sounding big or play low is no matter practice with right attitude. Sounding big is not the right word either, rich and with nuances, intonation and control is the clue.

Leif

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2019-09-18 6:16 a.m.

Two things Leif..... the 'bigger is better ' school of bass trombone playing... if you can possibly play bigger, do it.... just do it.

Second, with the move toward ultra large mouthpieces, people are forgetting how to make an orchestral sound on the old equipment... they try a 1 1/2G and find it feels tight and sounds harsh, so they go back to big.

A whole way of playing is in danger of being lost in some places. Not in the UK, but in some places.

Chris

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2019-09-18 9:55 a.m.

If playing something large made one immortal, I suspect they would be more popular than they presently are ;)

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2019-09-18 11:23 a.m.

did you say immoral??

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2019-09-18 11:35 a.m.

Damn autocorrect....

The major American orchestras have a very different expectation of sound and especially volume. It's a different situation and you can't really say that those players should be using smaller equipment - it just doesn't work.

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2019-09-18 1:57 p.m.

[quote="Doug Elliott"]Damn autocorrect....

The major American orchestras have a very different expectation of sound and especially volume. It's a different situation and you can't really say that those players should be using smaller equipment - it just doesn't work.[/quote]

Here I simply have to disagree Doug. If you are telling me that American orchestras play louder than those in other places around the world,I really don't buy it. I've listened to, and played in London orchestras and listened to American orchestras and there is not such a difference to my ears. I return to my assertion that in some places, players have lost that connection with the symphonic blowing technique needed to use smaller equipment.... it's gone.

Is that a loss ? That's up to the listener.... and the player.

Chris

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2019-09-18 2:43 p.m.

Before reading the last couple of posts, I was thinking about what would one’s chances be of advancing in an orchestral audition if one were to play using anything smaller than a Schilke 60. The new local orch guy has a massive sound that would be a tough act to follow.

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2019-09-18 2:59 p.m.

One of my recent students won the bass trombone job in the Halle orchestra on a 2G,with another reaching the last three ...on a 2G....

I never told them to use those pieces... their choice.

Over here we don't look at player's mouthpieces, we listen to their sounds.

Chris

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2019-09-18 3:04 p.m.

[quote="Bach5G"]Before reading the last couple of posts, I was thinking about what would one’s chances be of advancing in an orchestral audition if one were to play using anything smaller than a Schilke 60. The new local orch guy has a massive sound that would be a tough act to follow.[/quote]

In the US? I'm not sure. I do know a very good player that makes quite a good sound on a 1.5G that did a trial year in a regional orchestra. Otherwise, I don't know anyone recently.

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2019-09-18 3:25 p.m.

Didn't James Markey win the NYPO bass job on a 1 1/2G... whatever he went on to use....

Chris

Savio · by **Savio** » 2019-09-18 3:37 p.m.

But I belive there is many bass players in the US that dont play in the big orchestras? Anyway after listen Chris in that car parking house I know what loud is. We can be glad that house is still standing Chris :biggrin:

I also listen Bob Hughes recording on the Alph symphony and thats a 2g I think. Its on iTunes

Anyway, everyone seems to play 60 sizes and bigger. Even young and beginners? Its a bit strange for my ears. I dont know what Norwegians do because I dont see so many of them. After teaching for soon 35 years I had some young bass players that has studied further after leaving after they are 17-18 years old. I started all of them on 1.5 and all of them still play the same size today. What the others do around I dont know.

Well, anyway Im glad I found back to the 1.5. I also thought for a long time that bigger mouthpiece is bigger sound....it isn't. Its all about the player.

Leif

GBP · by **GBP** » 2019-09-18 4:22 p.m.

[quote="FOSSIL"]Didn't James Markey win the NYPO bass job on a 1 1/2G... whatever he went on to use....

Chris[/quote]

I am not sure what he played on to win NYPO. He did spend a short time right after on a mouthpiece of his design based on a G&W Don Harwood that was slightly larger in the throat. Currently, he is playing on Griego Gerry Pagano.

CalgaryTbone · by **CalgaryTbone** » 2019-09-18 4:41 p.m.

Hi -

Not a bass trombonist here, but I'm pretty sure that in an interview that I read w/Jim Markey, he said that he switched to a Schilke 60 for his Bass work when he decided that he wanted to take the NYP Bass audition. In the same article, he said that his early work on the Bass was played on a custom Greg Black w/a 1.5 cup and an Alessi 3 rim (to match his Tenor mpc.). He eventually started to design his own mouthpieces with a couple of different makers once he was a full-time Bass Trombonist. He has played all ends of the spectrum, and sounds great on all of them.

Jim Scott

RConrad · by **RConrad** » 2019-09-19 11:42 p.m.

I've been using my Faxx 1.5G for about a year now. I'd keep on using it but I think I need something that's gold plated and has a deeper cup. I'm starting to feel a little restricted by it when I go below the staff but maybe I just need a gold plated 1.5G. *shrug*

Savio · by **Savio** » 2019-09-20 3:52 a.m.

Conrad, Im just a teacher for young kids but I have some advices that might help. (or might not :shuffle: )

First, dont try to force it in the low register, avoid any tension. Warm up relaxed and play melodies you know in the low register. Just try to make it sound beautiful and relaxed. It takes time and practice no matter mouthpiece, just dont force anything.

The faxx 1.5 is great. Gold or silver doesn't matter that much. Some like gold some like silver plate. It doesn't change the character of the mouthpiece but it change how it feels on the lips. Gold is more slippery on lips I think?

Anyway, good luck with further playing and practice.

Leif

RConrad · by **RConrad** » 2019-09-20 9:01 a.m.

[quote="Savio"]Conrad, Im just a teacher for young kids but I have some advices that might help. (or might not :shuffle: )

First, dont try to force it in the low register, avoid any tension. Warm up relaxed and play melodies you know in the low register. Just try to make it sound beautiful and relaxed. It takes time and practice no matter mouthpiece, just dont force anything.

The faxx 1.5 is great. Gold or silver doesn't matter that much. Some like gold some like silver plate. It doesn't change the character of the mouthpiece but it change how it feels on the lips. Gold is more slippery on lips I think?

Anyway, good luck with further playing and practice.

Leif[/quote]

Being reminded to relax is always a good thing imo. One of the reasons I got back into playing trombone was to help me deal with my anxiety. It also doesn't help that often when I play with an ensemble I usually don't have the chance to warm up properly, that's an issue of time that I can't control unfortunately.

The gold plating is just something I've noticed is more comfortable for me. I usually have a beard and even when I shave my skin is rather sensitive to friction (shaving is hard enough). Don't think it's a nickle sensitivity though. I picked up a DW heritage 1AL from a friend that was pretty inexpensive but that turned out to be a bit larger than what I need so I've moved back to my Faxx.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2019-09-20 2:09 p.m.

Just played a Big Band rehearsal. All newer stuff. Bass parts went to pedal Ab LOUD. Used my Marcinkiewicz GR and it worked great. Normally I use my Doug Elliott setup, but I was feeling a little tired. Guess that happens when you attain Geezerdom.

Schlitz · 2019-09-20 2:38 p.m.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2019-09-20 2:43 p.m.

I did fall asleep in the car. Driving in hot weather with a balky air conditioner. Ran off the road, rolled over 3 times, and totaled the car. Had 4 broken ribs and some scrapes. Wife was so impressed with the Volvo S80 that she replaced it with another one.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2019-09-20 4:36 p.m.

Gotta agree with Bruce – the Marcinkiewicz "Geo Roberts" mouthpiece (which doesn't feel like a Bach 1½G to me) – is my mouthpiece of choice for Big Band music on my single-valve bass trombone. I have no idea whether George Roberts ever used this mouthpiece (some who knew him are skeptical), but I like to think he would have approved of it. :idk:

Glad you survived your rollover accident, Bruce. :o Drive safely!

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2019-09-20 5:25 p.m.

George did use it but he spent his latter years using Ziggies version but all his GR mouthpieces were made to the same specification. Granted of course as we all know there is a variation between different machines and process that can produce different sounds but the aim and the measurements were always the same whoever made the GR mouthpiece. Please note though the GR is NOT a 1.5 it is ever so slightly bigger, its more like a Bach 1.5GM, thats why the lower notes slip out better! ... Doug

JohntheTheologian · by **JohntheTheologian** » 2019-09-20 6:29 p.m.

I play a Marc GR most of the time in our big band and I like it very much on my single trigger Yamaha bass. Occasionally I use the Marc 3 which has the same rim dimensions-- when the charts are more like a 4th tenor part. As I mentioned above in this thread, the switch works pretty seamlessly for me given the identical rim.

BTW, what other manufacturers did a GR model? Might be helpful to know some time and give others an opportunity to find a mp with those dimensions.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2019-09-20 6:43 p.m.

[quote="DougHulme"]Please note though the GR is NOT a 1.5 it is ever so slightly bigger, its more like a Bach 1.5GM, thats why the lower notes slip out better! ... Doug[/quote]

Interesting, Doug. I have a Bach 1½GM, but find that, with its much larger throat (~8.05mm) it's an air hog that is difficult (for me) to play. The throat of my Bach 1½G is only 7.00mm; my Marcinkiewicz "Geo Roberts" is 7.04mm. But the GR cup I.D. is indeed just a bit larger than either Bach (whose cups seem to be identical), and just a bit deeper / more conical than either 1½G.

In any case, I'll stick with George's design – it works for me! :good:

Bach5G · 2019-09-20 7:23 p.m.

I recently acquired a Kanstul GR that I like. It seems to hit the Goldilocks point. Decent high/low registers, articulate.

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2019-09-20 7:52 p.m.

You are right, the GR is not a 1.5GM, I should have of said more like a GM than an ordinary 1.5. George of course played an ordinary 1.5 for years and years and his own GR came from modifications to a straight 1.5. There is still a slight trade off with the upper register but better than you would expect. Whichever way you look at it the GR is 'almost' a 1.5. I found the GR better than a GM when I changed (George himself gave me a Kanstul GR he had on him at the ITF in New Orleans) but there is still something special about the Bach 1.5 and I agree with most of what Chris has said about its use and the changing sound we are getting from the bigger equipment... just call me old fashioned but I cant alter the sound in my head!

HawaiiTromboneGuy · by **HawaiiTromboneGuy** » 2019-09-20 10:34 p.m.

Finally joining the club again. I started off on a 1.5G Megatone when I first switched to bass my freshman year of high school. I’m looking forward to learning this mouthpiece again as I had a few Mt.V 1.5G throughout the years. Just picked it up this afternoon.

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2019-09-21 5:26 a.m.

The 'Holy Grail' of 'The Club'! ... They dont all play the same though.

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2019-09-21 6:06 a.m.

JohntheTheologan - BTW, what other manufacturers did a GR model? Might be helpful to know some time and give others an opportunity to find a mp with those dimensions.

I'm no authority and I'm only going on what George told me in a single conversation on the subject. It might feel like everyone made mouthpieces for him but thats not true. Burt Herrek made the original for him or should I say with him and the Bach 1.5 was the model they modified to come up with his own piece. Conn made his mouthpiece for quite a while (probably until he split from them?) then the unhappy alliance with Marcinkiewicz, I say unhappy because George gave them all the details and signed an agreement with them but despite it going into production with his name on it and in some numbers they never paid him anything. I dont know the business details but I do know it made George very unhappy. Then of course Ziggy Kanstul came along and made (as he always did with whatever he was involved in) a superb job of producing Georges mouthpieces. The gold plating Ziggy did at the factory was amongst the best I have ever had done and I'd say to anyone who wants to get a GR mouthpiece to search for a Kanstul version. There are probably still a few new ones floating around the shops at the moment too.

So to sum up - there were only 4 people who made GR mouthpieces over the years but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (I often am!)... Doug

Bach5G · 2019-09-21 6:14 a.m.

Wasn’t there a line of mpcs labeled SO, MV etc associated with GR? Bill R played one - the SO, I think - up until recently.

I found this 2016 post from L Savio:

“His mouthpieces were copied by a small shop in L.A. in probably the 1980's.. they were stamped 'George Roberts' and marked NY, MV, SE, CE and SO... no prizes for working out what the letters stand for. George told me that he was ripped off by the copyist and never saw a cent for the designs."

I’d be interested in an SO if anyone was inclined to part with theirs.

TheBoneRanger · by **TheBoneRanger** » 2019-09-21 6:49 a.m.

1.5G

“An elegant weapon, for a more civilised age”

Andrew

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2019-09-21 9:02 a.m.

Bach 5B...

“His mouthpieces were copied by a small shop in L.A. in probably the 1980's.. they were stamped 'George Roberts' and marked NY, MV, SE, CE and SO... no prizes for working out what the letters stand for. George told me that he was ripped off by the copyist and never saw a cent for the designs."

Maybe thats who he was upset with then and not Marcinkiewicz, it was a long time ago now I'm struggling to remember exactly what he said. I'll stop posting about this until those who know better than me chime in.

Doug

JohntheTheologian · by **JohntheTheologian** » 2019-09-21 10:37 a.m.

Since Marcinkiewicz still makes the GR, but labels it as a 1 1/2 G if I"m correct, I'm wondering if other manufacturers might make a GR under a different designation as Marc does.

Would be interesting if anyone knows how many variations of this mp there are under different names since many of us find it as the optimum bass bone mp, especially for big band.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2019-09-21 4:58 p.m.

[quote="JohntheTheologian"]Since Marcinkiewicz still makes the GR, but labels it as a 1 1/2 G if I"m correct, I'm wondering if other manufacturers might make a GR under a different designation as Marc does.[/quote]

They may be two different animals. It's my understanding (though I have no personal information to verify) that the Marcinckiewicz "Geo Roberts" is very much like their 1½G (similar cup I.D. and throat), but with a somewhat deeper cup. (And of course the Marcs are much lighter than the heavier-blank Bachs.) My old Marc GR does indeed have a slightly larger, deeper cup than my Bach 1½G.

JohntheTheologian · by **JohntheTheologian** » 2019-09-21 5:51 p.m.

I believe that someone with inside knowledge posted on an earlier thread that the Marc 1 1/2 G was bigger than the Bach counterpart with the same number and that the Marc 1 1/2 was made on the same program as the old GR.

Someone would have to confirm that.

sf105 · by **sf105** » 2019-09-22 5:59 p.m.

@fossil In some respects the reverse is true for professionals vs. amateur players. If I try new kit and blat some notes, it's embarrassing but it's not going to affect my income, so I can have a bit of fun doing crazy things.

I would say that for bass trombones, the bigger change has come in the writing, rather than the kit. There's a whole new sound world since the days of George Roberts which hasn't touched the tenors in the same way (although they are louder). Nowadays students feel they need a contra, in our day no-one had ever seen one.

I'm very happy to have retreated from the arms race in both horns and mouthpieces.

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2019-09-23 3:10 a.m.

[quote="DougHulme"]Bach 5B...
<QUOTE>“His mouthpieces were copied by a small shop in L.A. in probably the 1980's.. they were stamped 'George Roberts' and marked NY, MV, SE, CE and SO... no prizes for working out what the letters stand for. George told me that he was ripped off by the copyist and never saw a cent for the designs."[/quote]

Maybe thats who he was upset with then and not Marcinkiewicz, it was a long time ago now I'm struggling to remember exactly what he said. I'll stop posting about this until those who know better than me chime in.

Doug
</QUOTE>

It was me that had the conversation with George. It was the small machine shop that ripped him off not Marcinkiewicz. He was a very mild and good mannered man but this business still upset him after perhaps thirty years.

The mouthpieces themselves were well made and played very well.

Chris

DougHulme · by **DougHulme** » 2019-09-23 3:57 a.m.

Thanks Chris... I had a similar conversation with him back in 2005 and couldnt remember exactly who he was upset by - it suddenly dawned on me when I pushed the submit button where I mentioned Marcinkiewicz that I really shouldnt have said that - my memory was too hazy. As you say he was the most mild and good mannered of men but I would describe him as hurt over this episode, great shame. With profuse apologies to Marcinkiewicz and a promise to engage brain before typing in future! Kindest... Doug

EdwardSolomon · by **EdwardSolomon** » 2019-09-23 6:20 a.m.

[quote="sf105"]I would say that for bass trombones, the bigger change has come in the writing, rather than the kit. There's a whole new sound world since the days of George Roberts which hasn't touched the tenors in the same way (although they are louder). Nowadays students feel they need a contra, in our day no-one had ever seen one.

I'm very happy to have retreated from the arms race in both horns and mouthpieces.[/quote]

I would concur on most counts, Steve.

I think for tenors that they've tried to increase the weight of sound they produce without changing the mouthpiece. Most guys I know are happy with a 5G size. Those that double on bass trombone won't go any larger than a 1.5G.

Pure bass trombonists, on the other hand, are different creatures. Those pros I know in the business are virtually all on a 2G size. It is a size that works well as a workhorse for orchestral bass trombone repertoire, which can employ a very wide range, but usually sits in or above the bass staff. Those in big bands and brass bands have tended to go for rather large setups, simply because they want easy access to loud dynamics and low notes without the requisite amount of effort on a small mouthpiece.

I agree with Chris. I reckon that there's a whole generation - maybe even more - who have lost the art of producing regular bass trombone sounds on regular sized equipment. Crikey, there are those that are even asking about using contrabass trombone size mouthpieces in a B flat bass trombone!

I'm happy with where I'm at. I have the trombone and the mouthpiece that suits me best after years of trying to get to this point and I'm not changing. If an Elkhart Conn 62H and a Mount Vernon 2G worked for Bob Hughes, I'll make them work for me, thanks very much.

bellend · by **bellend** » 2019-09-23 6:26 a.m.

Just to bring this thread a little more back on topic, to my ear there is a sort of critical mass point on bass trombones in relation to mouthpiece size.

Once you go over the 1. 1/2G mark something fundamentally changes in the sound and you get ever increasing degrees of what I call 'The Polo Mint Effect' ( Life Savers in the U.S.??)

By this I mean as the sounds spreads outwards a hole develops in the centre or core if you like and it just gets bigger and bigger as the mouthpieces gets larger and larger.

I don't buy the volume argument either I'm afraid as I've heard guys playing 2G's and 1 1/2G's who could knock a house down it's all about knowing how to do it which as Fossil said is an art that is becoming lost in the US maybe?

A focused, centered sound travels much further at a lower volume than a spread hollow one blowing ten shades of shite of it any day.

I can however understand that the writing for bass trombone is much more demanding than the olden days but it is doable with practice and understanding.

Just my two cents worth.

BellEnd

bellend · by **bellend** » 2019-09-23 10:04 a.m.

[quote="bellend"]Just to bring this thread a little more back on topic, to my ear there is a sort of critical mass point on bass trombones in relation to mouthpiece size.

Once you go over the 1. 1/2G mark something fundamentally changes in the sound and you get ever increasing degrees of what I call 'The Polo Mint Effect' ( Life Savers in the U.S.??)

By this I mean as the sounds spreads outwards a hole develops in the centre or core if you like and it just gets bigger and bigger as the mouthpieces gets larger and larger.

I don't buy the volume argument either I'm afraid as I've heard guys playing 2G's and 1 1/2G's who could knock a house down it's all about knowing how to do it which as Fossil said is an art that is becoming lost in the US maybe?

A focused, centered sound travels much further at a lower volume than a spread hollow one blowing ten shades of shite out of it any day.

I can however understand that the writing for bass trombone is much more demanding than the olden days but it is doable with practice and understanding.

Just my two cents worth.

BellEnd[/quote]

Kbiggs · by **Kbiggs** » 2019-09-23 10:48 a.m.

“His mouthpieces were copied by a small shop in L.A. in probably the 1980's.. they were stamped 'George Roberts' and marked NY, MV, SE, CE and SO... no prizes for working out what the letters stand for. George told me that he was ripped off by the copyist and never saw a cent for the designs."

I’d be interested in an SO if anyone was inclined to part with theirs.

I’ll be the one who gets the booby prize. What do they mean?

NY = New York

MV = Mt. Vernon

SE = ?

CE = ?

SO = ?

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2019-09-23 12:57 p.m.

I have a CE. I swear I was told what it meant once...

paulyg · by **paulyg** » 2019-09-23 1:35 p.m.

SO is "Slightly Oversized..."

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2019-09-23 2:42 p.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]I have a CE. I swear I was told what it meant once...[/quote]

From an old post from C Stearn/Blast/Fossil:

The George Roberts mouthpieces.... copies of Georges favourite mouthpieces... gems... George was bitter though.. he told me that he never got any of the money promised on the deal.

There was a NY, MV, CE,SE and SO.

The theory is that meant, New York, Mount Vernon, Commercial Elkhart, Symphony Elkhart, Symphony Oversize.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2019-09-23 3:12 p.m.

There it is!

Mine is definitely lighter in sound. It matches a Conn 7X very well, makes me feel very GR. Pretty darn hard to play and very uncomfortable rim, though.

Finetales · by **Finetales** » 2019-09-23 4:26 p.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]Mine is definitely lighter in sound. It matches a Conn 7X very well, makes me feel very GR. Pretty darn hard to play and very uncomfortable rim, though.[/quote]

Well now you just have me interested.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2019-09-23 4:33 p.m.

Oh yeah. You need to come over anyway!

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2019-10-22 11:28 p.m.

Well, finally played a Mt. Vernon 1.5G.

The magic is real! What a great mouthpiece. It's by far the most sound from a 1.5 that I've used. I do have some good ones, including a George Roberts Replica CE mouthpiece, and none of them have the 1. Sound 2. Ease 3. Low register that this one does. I have also played the Symingtons, but not for a while.

I can see why many players would love to have something like this for a main piece.

As for myself, I like it, but I wouldn't want it for my full time mouthpiece. The sound, though it is very good (a great color to the midrange especially), is still narrower than I would prefer. The rim is obviously a lot smaller than I use, and even after half an hour felt pretty restrictive. Finally, the note fronts, though very clear, lack the weight I get from my Greg Black.

fwbassbone · by **fwbassbone** » 2019-10-28 10:20 p.m.

I just got a new Schilke/Reichenbach piece today. I played it at a brass band rehearsal tonight. It definitely feels bigger than a 1 1/2G but not a lot. I posted in the thread about the new piece elsewhere on the forum. I like it and am going to give it a try on the next concert series.

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Who IN THEIR RIGHT MIND plays a 1.5 sized Bass mouthpiece? (August 2019)