Early Williams & Wallace Bass
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
Thought the forum might enjoy these photos for those of you not on social media.
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
2nd pics set.
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
3rd set.
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
4th.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Any details? Dimensions, etc.?
The "Patent Pending" marking on the curved handbrace would indicate that it was made sometime after January 4th, 1928 (the filing date for that patent). The patent was issued on November 25th, 1930, but it's possible Earl had some stock of "Patent Pending" braces on had at the time, so that date is a bit "soft".
The Conn serial number on the outer slide dates that part to 1925-1926
Odd that it doesn't have Earl's patented tuning mechanism.
The "Patent Pending" marking on the curved handbrace would indicate that it was made sometime after January 4th, 1928 (the filing date for that patent). The patent was issued on November 25th, 1930, but it's possible Earl had some stock of "Patent Pending" braces on had at the time, so that date is a bit "soft".
The Conn serial number on the outer slide dates that part to 1925-1926
Odd that it doesn't have Earl's patented tuning mechanism.
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="JohnL"]Any details? Dimensions, etc.?
The "Patent Pending" marking on the curved handbrace would indicate that it was made sometime after January 4th, 1928 (the filing date for that patent). The patent was issued on November 25th, 1930, but it's possible Earl had some stock of "Patent Pending" braces on had at the time, so that date is a bit "soft".
The Conn serial number on the outer slide dates that part to 1925-1926
Odd that it doesn't have Earl's patented tuning mechanism.[/quote]
The horn has a 9” bell. Both upper and lower tubes dial in at .562”. This is definitely an oddball horn. I forgot to include the pic, but the water key also has the same serial number on it.
The "Patent Pending" marking on the curved handbrace would indicate that it was made sometime after January 4th, 1928 (the filing date for that patent). The patent was issued on November 25th, 1930, but it's possible Earl had some stock of "Patent Pending" braces on had at the time, so that date is a bit "soft".
The Conn serial number on the outer slide dates that part to 1925-1926
Odd that it doesn't have Earl's patented tuning mechanism.[/quote]
The horn has a 9” bell. Both upper and lower tubes dial in at .562”. This is definitely an oddball horn. I forgot to include the pic, but the water key also has the same serial number on it.
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
Upper and lower tubes.
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
What’s also interesting is the way this wrap is designed. It looks similar to that of the 70H Fuchs. It’s also a little hard to see in the photos, but the slide receiver is marked 70H. For whatever reason, it looks like someone purposely tried to cover up the “H” at the end with an intricate design of lines. You can sort of see it on the right side where the “H” would normally be after “70.”
- FOSSIL
- Posts: 688
- Joined: Jul 09, 2019
Wow!!!! What a fantastic find. I wouldn't call it an oddball , just a logical piece of work in the period. Williams was basically making small tenors at the time and he either got an order for a bass or had someone come in with a Conn bass and ask him to work his magic on it. Either way what we have is a Conn bass, complete with serial numbers, that it looks like Williams has modified to create a Williams bass. There is probably more work under the skin than we see in the pictures and this may well be his first thoughts on building a bass. A pretty significant instrument I would say...hugely collectable.
The BIG question... how does it play ????
Chris
The BIG question... how does it play ????
Chris
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="FOSSIL"]Wow!!!! What a fantastic find. I wouldn't call it an oddball , just a logical piece of work in the period. Williams was basically making small tenors at the time and he either got an order for a bass or had someone come in with a Conn bass and ask him to work his magic on it. Either way what we have is a Conn bass, complete with serial numbers, that it looks like Williams has modified to create a Williams bass. There is probably more work under the skin than we see in the pictures and this may well be his first thoughts on building a bass. A pretty significant instrument I would say...hugely collectable.
The BIG question... how does it play ????
Chris[/quote]
Hi Chris,
Perhaps my wording of oddball wasn’t the right word for the job. Unique seems to work better. I wouldn’t doubt that there’s some special mojo done to this horn. The horn is actually from the collection of my friend, Dick Bowman. I believe you’ve mentioned before on the old TTF that you and Mr. Bowman are acquainted with each other. I seem to remember a story regarding meatloaf. :???: He’s now 91 years old and is getting ready to sell his collection of horns. He was the reason I ended up buying my Rath contra that I quickly realized was more than I can handle. His R90’s serial is James Bond’s agent number. :good: Anyways, I also believe that this horn is gold plated. As for how it plays, I still need to give the slide a good cleaning. As of right now, it does move, but takes a little elbow grease to get it moving. From what I can play, it has that distinct Williams sound. My Conn 3B mouthpiece really wakes this horn up. I’ll have a better assessment once the slide is cleaned and oiled up. :biggrin:
The BIG question... how does it play ????
Chris[/quote]
Hi Chris,
Perhaps my wording of oddball wasn’t the right word for the job. Unique seems to work better. I wouldn’t doubt that there’s some special mojo done to this horn. The horn is actually from the collection of my friend, Dick Bowman. I believe you’ve mentioned before on the old TTF that you and Mr. Bowman are acquainted with each other. I seem to remember a story regarding meatloaf. :???: He’s now 91 years old and is getting ready to sell his collection of horns. He was the reason I ended up buying my Rath contra that I quickly realized was more than I can handle. His R90’s serial is James Bond’s agent number. :good: Anyways, I also believe that this horn is gold plated. As for how it plays, I still need to give the slide a good cleaning. As of right now, it does move, but takes a little elbow grease to get it moving. From what I can play, it has that distinct Williams sound. My Conn 3B mouthpiece really wakes this horn up. I’ll have a better assessment once the slide is cleaned and oiled up. :biggrin:
- FOSSIL
- Posts: 688
- Joined: Jul 09, 2019
So nice to hear that Dick Bowman is still with us. He is such good company. I was wondering how he was when I recently came across a CD he plays on. Please send him my warmest regards. I bet that is an interesting collection. It was always fun getting phone calls from him at 6 in the morning or midnight... however he worked out the time difference, it was never quite right.
The R90 contra might never have happened if it wasn't for Dick paying for his one upfront a couple of years before it came into production. He trusted Mick.
So, does this make 13 Williams basses ?
Chris
The R90 contra might never have happened if it wasn't for Dick paying for his one upfront a couple of years before it came into production. He trusted Mick.
So, does this make 13 Williams basses ?
Chris
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="FOSSIL"]So nice to hear that Dick Bowman is still with us. He is such good company. I was wondering how he was when I recently came across a CD he plays on. Please send him my warmest regards. I bet that is an interesting collection. It was always fun getting phone calls from him at 6 in the morning or midnight... however he worked out the time difference, it was never quite right.
The R90 contra might never have happened if it wasn't for Dick paying for his one upfront a couple of years before it came into production. He trusted Mick.
So, does this make 13 Williams basses ?
Chris[/quote]
He definitely is and I will give him your regards when I see him Thursday night. Yeah, that sounds like Dick alright. He’s just an all around gentleman and I’ve had the privilege of playing in the section with him for idk how many years now with me on bass and him on 1st and most recently, 2nd.
You know, the whole 12 number was based on basses Earl made at the Burbank shop. There’s at least three bass bones that were made prior to that when he was with Spike Wallace and built under the Williams Wallace partnership. I haven’t seen another WW with this style of wrap though.
The R90 contra might never have happened if it wasn't for Dick paying for his one upfront a couple of years before it came into production. He trusted Mick.
So, does this make 13 Williams basses ?
Chris[/quote]
He definitely is and I will give him your regards when I see him Thursday night. Yeah, that sounds like Dick alright. He’s just an all around gentleman and I’ve had the privilege of playing in the section with him for idk how many years now with me on bass and him on 1st and most recently, 2nd.
You know, the whole 12 number was based on basses Earl made at the Burbank shop. There’s at least three bass bones that were made prior to that when he was with Spike Wallace and built under the Williams Wallace partnership. I haven’t seen another WW with this style of wrap though.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
It begs the question: "How much is Earl Williams and how much is C. G. Conn?"
The wrap does look a lot like the[url=https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn70H1930image.html]1930 70H over at the Conn Loyalist page (absent the add-on E valve) but, to my eyes, that there's a little more space between the back bow and the outer loop of the attachment, with correspondingly less space between the outer loop and the tuning crook (there's barely enough space to pull the crook out).
The wrap does look a lot like the
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="JohnL"]It begs the question: "How much is Earl Williams and how much is C. G. Conn?"
The wrap does look a lot like the[url=https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/Conn70H1930image.html]1930 70H over at the Conn Loyalist page (absent the add-on E valve) but, to my eyes, that there's a little more space between the back bow and the outer loop of the attachment, with correspondingly less space between the outer loop and the tuning crook (there's barely enough space to pull the crook out).[/quote]
I’m curious about this as well. It definitely has its mysteries.
The wrap does look a lot like the
I’m curious about this as well. It definitely has its mysteries.
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
Gave the slide a thorough cleaning today and applied some Yamaha slide lubricant. I’m happy to say that the slide is slidin’! It now falls under its own weight and is nice and smooth. I wouldn’t hesitate to take this horn to a gig/concert right now!