Ultimate beginner's mouthpiece?
- Gary
- Posts: 283
- Joined: Jan 11, 2019
What is the ultimate beginner's mouthpiece?
I am learning trombone and would like to know what is the most commonly agreed-to beginner' mouthpiece. Nothing more than that and nothing exotic. Just a milk-toast, generalist, middle-of-the-road, consensus-agreed upon mouthpiece. Help a clueless, old man.
Thanks.
I am learning trombone and would like to know what is the most commonly agreed-to beginner' mouthpiece. Nothing more than that and nothing exotic. Just a milk-toast, generalist, middle-of-the-road, consensus-agreed upon mouthpiece. Help a clueless, old man.
Thanks.
- Bonearzt
- Posts: 833
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Depends on your horn and your facial structure, but 7C, 6.5, 5G, whatever you can get on your face is good to start with!
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
6-1/2AL is a good place to start... for the majority of people.
Many people will suggest 12C or 7C. I disagree, especially for an adult.
What horn do you have?
Many people will suggest 12C or 7C. I disagree, especially for an adult.
What horn do you have?
- Gary
- Posts: 283
- Joined: Jan 11, 2019
Wow, lost a post! I'll try again.
I have a Martin Urbie Green trombone.
I have been a multi-instrumentalist most of my life and am 74 years old. But I've had two major strokes and my embouchure strength is not what one would, otherwise, expect. For all intents and purposes, I am a rank beginner. Thanks or asking.
I have a Martin Urbie Green trombone.
I have been a multi-instrumentalist most of my life and am 74 years old. But I've had two major strokes and my embouchure strength is not what one would, otherwise, expect. For all intents and purposes, I am a rank beginner. Thanks or asking.
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
I have a couple that students try from among the common sizes and I generally give them the best one if its one I picked up cheaply. Buying blind, yeah probably 6.5AL although I wish the stock version was just a touch narrower for the rim.
- FeelMyRath
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Apr 12, 2018
Yamaha 45C2
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
You may actually find a 12C or 11C to be good choices given your age and health condition.
You aren't going to be playing a bass trombone and trying to flatten the conductor to the far wall, after all. ;)
You may actually prefer a Rudy Muck cushion rim; maybe a 23 size. It has a VERY wide, rounded rim that would be good for weak chops.
You aren't going to be playing a bass trombone and trying to flatten the conductor to the far wall, after all. ;)
You may actually prefer a Rudy Muck cushion rim; maybe a 23 size. It has a VERY wide, rounded rim that would be good for weak chops.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
A Martin Urbie uses a small shank. 11C and 12C are ONLY small shank (large shank only available as special order).
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Good question, Gary. You are far from "clueless" to pose such a common sense query. Unfortunately, there probably is no "commonly agreed-to beginner's mouthpiece." Do you have a trombone teacher?
6½AL-size mouthpieces (Bach) may be a bit large for some entry-level players, especially on a small-bore trombone. I agree that the old standby 12C (recommended in my day) is too small for most (except younger beginners).
I might instead suggest something like a Bach 6½A (smaller throat than a 6½AL) or a Bach 6¾C (slightly smaller cup and throat) as easier starter mouthpieces.
Beyond Bach (but still readily available - and certainly not exotic), and suitable candidates:
• Schilke 47 (or 47C4)
• Yamaha 48 (or 47)
None of these mouthpieces will lead you far astray from your objective. Good luck! :idea:
6½AL-size mouthpieces (Bach) may be a bit large for some entry-level players, especially on a small-bore trombone. I agree that the old standby 12C (recommended in my day) is too small for most (except younger beginners).
I might instead suggest something like a Bach 6½A (smaller throat than a 6½AL) or a Bach 6¾C (slightly smaller cup and throat) as easier starter mouthpieces.
Beyond Bach (but still readily available - and certainly not exotic), and suitable candidates:
• Schilke 47 (or 47C4)
• Yamaha 48 (or 47)
None of these mouthpieces will lead you far astray from your objective. Good luck! :idea:
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
There have been some pretty significant players who used 11C or 12C sized mouthpieces.
We also don't know if Gary is coming from another instrument like a trumpet or returning to the trombone after his stroke(s). I like 11C or 12C mouthpieces for players used to smaller mouthpieces like trumpet or french horn. For former tuba players the larger mouthpieces work best.
If the stroke(s) caused muscle damage to the embouchure, a wide rim might also help. Perhaps a Bach 12EW (there is also a 12CW, but I've never seen one in the flesh). Or the Rudy Muck I mentioned.
A short Skype lesson with Doug Elliott or Dave Wilken might also give some great suggestions. Even though Doug sells mouthpieces, he won't force you to buy one in his Skype lesson.
We also don't know if Gary is coming from another instrument like a trumpet or returning to the trombone after his stroke(s). I like 11C or 12C mouthpieces for players used to smaller mouthpieces like trumpet or french horn. For former tuba players the larger mouthpieces work best.
If the stroke(s) caused muscle damage to the embouchure, a wide rim might also help. Perhaps a Bach 12EW (there is also a 12CW, but I've never seen one in the flesh). Or the Rudy Muck I mentioned.
A short Skype lesson with Doug Elliott or Dave Wilken might also give some great suggestions. Even though Doug sells mouthpieces, he won't force you to buy one in his Skype lesson.
- Gary
- Posts: 283
- Joined: Jan 11, 2019
More background info: I cycled in my playing. I was originally a French horn and trumpet player in college and a hitch in the service (ca. 14 years). Then a long stint as a sax and flute player (ca. 20 years). Returned to trumpet and Horn (ca. 8 years) and then had two strokes.
Rebuilding has been very slow. Added trombone because of the kind of embouchure muscles it takes vs. on trumpet and the bone slide uses larger muscles for the slide rather than finer muscular control using trumpet fingering. I haven't given up on trumpet but have added trombone for its therapeutic possibilities. (And, actually, have begun digging trombone, too.)
Rebuilding has been very slow. Added trombone because of the kind of embouchure muscles it takes vs. on trumpet and the bone slide uses larger muscles for the slide rather than finer muscular control using trumpet fingering. I haven't given up on trumpet but have added trombone for its therapeutic possibilities. (And, actually, have begun digging trombone, too.)
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
If you do Skype I would be happy to take a quick look at your playing and recommend something that will work for you. I understand that things may not be working now, but I can still see what I need. And it might actually help to see you on trumpet too, whatever you can do.
- Rusty
- Posts: 470
- Joined: Jun 01, 2018
I’d say a Yamaha 48 is a good place to start. Similar to a 6.5AL but a little more efficient to play
- Gary
- Posts: 283
- Joined: Jan 11, 2019
Thanks again guys. I decided on a Bach 12EW but couldn't find one anyplace so went with a Rudy Muck.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Let us know how it works out for you. As a former Rudy Muck owner (a 23) I can vouch for the wide, comfortable rim. Will this help compensate for your medical issues? Time will tell.
- dxhall
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Sep 14, 2018
I am following this thread with some interest because I began playing trombone about 18 months ago, which places me in the beginner category.
I’ve acquired a number of mouthpieces, and find that an Olds no. 3 seems to produce the best tone for me. When I try largess mps, I find that my upper register is reduced.
Am I going wrong by sticking with a small mp like this? I am wondering if my chops would develop faster if I tried harder on a larger mp. I analogize this to resistance exercises in the gym - you don’t make much progress unless you push harder with heavier weights.
I’ve acquired a number of mouthpieces, and find that an Olds no. 3 seems to produce the best tone for me. When I try largess mps, I find that my upper register is reduced.
Am I going wrong by sticking with a small mp like this? I am wondering if my chops would develop faster if I tried harder on a larger mp. I analogize this to resistance exercises in the gym - you don’t make much progress unless you push harder with heavier weights.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
A smaller mouthpiece like the Olds 3 tends to favor the upper register and leaves the lower register a bit thin. This may or may not be a problem, depending on what part you are playing in what kind of ensemble. Certainly not a good idea for covering bass trombone parts unless you are playing with a group with low standards.
Except for the fact that the Olds 3 is not made any more and replacements or backups are sometimes hard to find, there is really nothing wrong with playing one. Unless you find it is not allowing you to play the way you want.
Except for the fact that the Olds 3 is not made any more and replacements or backups are sometimes hard to find, there is really nothing wrong with playing one. Unless you find it is not allowing you to play the way you want.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
dxhall,
If you have an Olds tenor trombone, the Olds 3 mouthpiece isn't a bad choice (given the limitations pointed out by Bruce Guttman). It's sort of like the classic Bach 12C (a little smaller cup I.D., a little larger throat). But more importantly, it has a smaller-than-normal shank, so it fits perfectly in the reduced-size Olds mouthpiece receivers, but will sink farther into standard small-shank receivers, perhaps altering the intonation. In other words, Olds mouthpieces work best with Olds trombones.
If you find the Olds 3 a little small, you might want to try a slightly larger Olds 1 mouthpiece for your Olds trombone. If you have a non-Olds trombone, you might have better luck with a standard small-shank mouthpiece (e.g. Bach 12C, Bach 11C, Bach 7C - or similar-size pieces from other manufacturers – Schilke, Yamaha, etc.).
If you have an Olds tenor trombone, the Olds 3 mouthpiece isn't a bad choice (given the limitations pointed out by Bruce Guttman). It's sort of like the classic Bach 12C (a little smaller cup I.D., a little larger throat). But more importantly, it has a smaller-than-normal shank, so it fits perfectly in the reduced-size Olds mouthpiece receivers, but will sink farther into standard small-shank receivers, perhaps altering the intonation. In other words, Olds mouthpieces work best with Olds trombones.
If you find the Olds 3 a little small, you might want to try a slightly larger Olds 1 mouthpiece for your Olds trombone. If you have a non-Olds trombone, you might have better luck with a standard small-shank mouthpiece (e.g. Bach 12C, Bach 11C, Bach 7C - or similar-size pieces from other manufacturers – Schilke, Yamaha, etc.).
- Gary
- Posts: 283
- Joined: Jan 11, 2019
How did this thread get about Olds equipment? It might be overlooked buried in Martin thread. Maybe starting another thread would call more attention to your discussion.