E-pull
- bigbandbone
- Posts: 602
- Joined: Jan 17, 2019
I'm practicing the e-pull excercises in the GR book and was curious why this skill is never discussed here?
I purposely bought a single rotor horn because the music I play generally doesn't have low B's and not having that second rotor saves some weight that this old man doesn't have to hold up!
But occasionally I do have a sustained low C or B and have to pull.
Question, if a tune has a low B, should I just pull at the beginning and play the whole tune pulled. Or should I find a couple bar rest close to the B and pull it there and then repeat sequence in reverse later in the tune to go back to F tuning?
I purposely bought a single rotor horn because the music I play generally doesn't have low B's and not having that second rotor saves some weight that this old man doesn't have to hold up!
But occasionally I do have a sustained low C or B and have to pull.
Question, if a tune has a low B, should I just pull at the beginning and play the whole tune pulled. Or should I find a couple bar rest close to the B and pull it there and then repeat sequence in reverse later in the tune to go back to F tuning?
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Traditionally we'd pull close to the low B and go back after; both during rests.
There was actually an attachment that was ONLY in E in use in the early 20th Century, but surprisingly it seems to have been used only on tenor trombones.
With the absolute dominance of double trigger bass trombones the use of an E attachment has been pretty much obsoleted.
There is also the falset low B in approximately T3 that our Swedish contingent seems to favor. If you can learn to play it convincingly it can cover some low B applications.
There was actually an attachment that was ONLY in E in use in the early 20th Century, but surprisingly it seems to have been used only on tenor trombones.
With the absolute dominance of double trigger bass trombones the use of an E attachment has been pretty much obsoleted.
There is also the falset low B in approximately T3 that our Swedish contingent seems to favor. If you can learn to play it convincingly it can cover some low B applications.
- norbie2018
- Posts: 1051
- Joined: Apr 05, 2018
[quote="bigbandbone"]I'm practicing the e-pull excercises in the GR book and was curious why this skill is never discussed here?[/quote]
Perhaps most bass trombonist use 2 valve horns and don't need to worry about it? Regardless, pulling a tuning slide out and then back in to a predetermined spot doesn't seem like a terribly difficult task. Of course, I may be missing something...
<Edit: quote fixed by Moderator>
Perhaps most bass trombonist use 2 valve horns and don't need to worry about it? Regardless, pulling a tuning slide out and then back in to a predetermined spot doesn't seem like a terribly difficult task. Of course, I may be missing something...
<Edit: quote fixed by Moderator>
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I think it's not discussed because so many bass players have moved to doubles. I think a lot of younger single bass players aren't aware that some of the horns can do that, and I guess some wraps can't pull far enough.
Personally, I would just pull for the minimum amount of time possible. I can play with the slide in either position, but it's easier to play in F. Plus, I won't bang it on anything if it's pushed in. I'd mark it in the music like a mute change where you have enough of a break in the music to pull/push.
I did own an Eb slide for a time, and I kept it in the horn rather than swapping it out. It allowed a completely chromatic single valve bass, but required a lot of 6th and 7th positions for C/B and F/E.
You could cut most double valve players slides off after 4th position, and they'd never know it. There's a lot of value to some of the longer positions.
Personally, I would just pull for the minimum amount of time possible. I can play with the slide in either position, but it's easier to play in F. Plus, I won't bang it on anything if it's pushed in. I'd mark it in the music like a mute change where you have enough of a break in the music to pull/push.
I did own an Eb slide for a time, and I kept it in the horn rather than swapping it out. It allowed a completely chromatic single valve bass, but required a lot of 6th and 7th positions for C/B and F/E.
You could cut most double valve players slides off after 4th position, and they'd never know it. There's a lot of value to some of the longer positions.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
I had to use this in college for a bit. Sometimes there is no chance to pull on short notice and you have to play the whole tune in E. Sometimes that just isn't worth it and the Cs and Bs have to be faked.
If you really want to rely on a single, it's good to play a fair amount of music with E pull so you can start to muscle memory it.
If you really want to rely on a single, it's good to play a fair amount of music with E pull so you can start to muscle memory it.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Hyperbolica makes a good point. Many open and semi-open (think Yamaha) wraps won't extend to E. My Yamaha 682 won't, even with both slides pulled as far as they go.
- bigbandbone
- Posts: 602
- Joined: Jan 17, 2019
[quote="BGuttman"]Traditionally we'd pull close to the low B and go back after; both during rests.
There was actually an attachment that was ONLY in E in use in the early 20th Century, but surprisingly it seems to have been used only on tenor trombones.
With the absolute dominance of double trigger bass trombones the use of an E attachment has been pretty much obsoleted.
There is also the falset low B in approximately T3 that our Swedish contingent seems to favor. If you can learn to play it convincingly it can cover some low B applications.[/quote]
<EMOJI seq="1f44d" tseq="1f44d">👍</EMOJI> I've been ghosting C's and B's when they are just passing tones. But if I have to sustain the pitch I need the E-pull. I'll try working out the T-3 option. Thanks
There was actually an attachment that was ONLY in E in use in the early 20th Century, but surprisingly it seems to have been used only on tenor trombones.
With the absolute dominance of double trigger bass trombones the use of an E attachment has been pretty much obsoleted.
There is also the falset low B in approximately T3 that our Swedish contingent seems to favor. If you can learn to play it convincingly it can cover some low B applications.[/quote]
<EMOJI seq="1f44d" tseq="1f44d">👍</EMOJI> I've been ghosting C's and B's when they are just passing tones. But if I have to sustain the pitch I need the E-pull. I'll try working out the T-3 option. Thanks
- ArbanRubank
- Posts: 424
- Joined: Feb 23, 2019
[quote="bigbandbone"]I'm practicing the e-pull excercises in the GR book and was curious why this skill is never discussed here?
I purposely bought a single rotor horn because the music I play generally doesn't have low B's and not having that second rotor saves some weight that this old man doesn't have to hold up!
But occasionally I do have a sustained low C or B and have to pull.
Question, if a tune has a low B, should I just pull at the beginning and play the whole tune pulled. Or should I find a couple bar rest close to the B and pull it there and then repeat sequence in reverse later in the tune to go back to F tuning?[/quote]
FWIW; I'm with you. I also don't wish to shoulder the weight of a double-valve horn. What I do is re-write the music so that the low B's turn into other in-tune notes, such as the note right before or after it. I don't think that is much worse than ghosting it. However, you may not be permitted to do it in a public setting, but then again - it may go completely unnoticed.
Like you, I just picked up the GR book and was surprised at the advocacy of alternate tuning. I also almost never see it discussed these days anywhere - probably for the reasons previously stated.
I purposely bought a single rotor horn because the music I play generally doesn't have low B's and not having that second rotor saves some weight that this old man doesn't have to hold up!
But occasionally I do have a sustained low C or B and have to pull.
Question, if a tune has a low B, should I just pull at the beginning and play the whole tune pulled. Or should I find a couple bar rest close to the B and pull it there and then repeat sequence in reverse later in the tune to go back to F tuning?[/quote]
FWIW; I'm with you. I also don't wish to shoulder the weight of a double-valve horn. What I do is re-write the music so that the low B's turn into other in-tune notes, such as the note right before or after it. I don't think that is much worse than ghosting it. However, you may not be permitted to do it in a public setting, but then again - it may go completely unnoticed.
Like you, I just picked up the GR book and was surprised at the advocacy of alternate tuning. I also almost never see it discussed these days anywhere - probably for the reasons previously stated.
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I only have one horn that will really support an E pull, and that only barely. For the couple of times I've used it, I have pulled a bit before I needed it, and put it back as soon as I could. Required about a page and a half out of the concert each time as I recall. I do not generally practice this particular skill due to how infrequently it gets used. I just don't bring the single if I really need a couple of good Bs. I have parts to make a drop in valve for this horn... 'bout time to get around to that.
Cheers,
Andy
Cheers,
Andy
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
I would do more e pulls, but I don't have a horn that is capable. Many "open wrap" horns don't quite go the distance, and almost none of the Thayer valves sets do. I don't know if even most traditional wraps can do it, though I seem to recall part of the reason for moving the tuning slide out of line for the traditional wrap was to make the E pull possible.