Well, Here's a New One...
- Neo_Bri
- Posts: 1342
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
So, I've been perusing for a nice, NICE used French horn (Geyer wrap preferred, hint hint), and came upon this:
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Triple- ... SwbopZWa3J">https://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Triple-Horn-German-Alexander-Conn-8D-parts-F-Bb-Double-French-Horn-F-alto/283004551741?hash=item41e462c23d:g:6XwAAOSwbopZWa3J</LINK_TEXT>
By my count I believe that's ten valves. At least it's a screw bell. I'm not sure about what case would work, though.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Triple- ... SwbopZWa3J">https://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Triple-Horn-German-Alexander-Conn-8D-parts-F-Bb-Double-French-Horn-F-alto/283004551741?hash=item41e462c23d:g:6XwAAOSwbopZWa3J</LINK_TEXT>
By my count I believe that's ten valves. At least it's a screw bell. I'm not sure about what case would work, though.
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
We talked about this at length on the Horn People Facebook page. For that price I have no idea why you wouldn't buy a Wessex triple for over $1k less which is proven to work properly (and not look ridiculous). Also that thing looks like it's massively heavy.
Other than this monstrosity, that seller actually usually keeps a decent stock of nice used horns. I'm actually interested in their custom work too, because on their website they say that they can make anything you want (including from scratch) and judging by the prices they've been selling their other custom projects on eBay it seems like a custom job would be reasonably priced.
Other than this monstrosity, that seller actually usually keeps a decent stock of nice used horns. I'm actually interested in their custom work too, because on their website they say that they can make anything you want (including from scratch) and judging by the prices they've been selling their other custom projects on eBay it seems like a custom job would be reasonably priced.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
They should probably add the horn equivalent to an Ergobone. Might make that monster an easier sell.
https://eastop.net/classical-hornplaying/the-pipstick/
Given the skills necessary to build the horn itself, they should have no trouble building something like a pipstick.
https://eastop.net/classical-hornplaying/the-pipstick/
Given the skills necessary to build the horn itself, they should have no trouble building something like a pipstick.
- Neo_Bri
- Posts: 1342
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
[quote="Finetales"]We talked about this at length on the Horn People Facebook page. For that price I have no idea why you wouldn't buy a Wessex triple for over $1k less which is proven to work properly (and not look ridiculous). Also that thing looks like it's massively heavy.
Other than this monstrosity, that seller actually usually keeps a decent stock of nice used horns. I'm actually interested in their custom work too, because on their website they say that they can make anything you want (including from scratch) and judging by the prices they've been selling their other custom projects on eBay it seems like a custom job would be reasonably priced.[/quote]
Oh, I'm not interested in buying it. I just thought others would be interested in seeing it.
Other than this monstrosity, that seller actually usually keeps a decent stock of nice used horns. I'm actually interested in their custom work too, because on their website they say that they can make anything you want (including from scratch) and judging by the prices they've been selling their other custom projects on eBay it seems like a custom job would be reasonably priced.[/quote]
Oh, I'm not interested in buying it. I just thought others would be interested in seeing it.
- Tooloud
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Mar 31, 2018
But comparing a true Alexander to a Wessex....? :roll: You would trade the Hoy Grail to a carboard coffee cup? @Finetales, do you know, what you are talking about?
Even my 103 regular double is heavy! Heavier on my left arm than my bass trombone, which itself is quite a tank. Hornbuilding is a very interesting and individual matter. Not as standardized as building trombones.
I think this model at that price is a bargain, if it is a true Alex. In Europe this wouldn't go for that ridiculous price. A gambler could buy this in the US and offer it worldwide at 10k...
Even my 103 regular double is heavy! Heavier on my left arm than my bass trombone, which itself is quite a tank. Hornbuilding is a very interesting and individual matter. Not as standardized as building trombones.
I think this model at that price is a bargain, if it is a true Alex. In Europe this wouldn't go for that ridiculous price. A gambler could buy this in the US and offer it worldwide at 10k...
- boneagain
- Posts: 276
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
This is NOT a true Alexander. The seller is VERY clear on that. It is a prototype using a number of different parts to test out some concepts for implementing a triple. In addition to the extra valves there is a valve right in the branch, and a shortened lead pipe. The seller is quite clear on exactly what the horn is. To me it DOES look like a very interesting experiment.
But to get out of the Wessex league, it would need to look and PLAY more like this:[url]<LINK_TEXT text="http://www.mccrackenhorns.com/McCracken ... rpl.html#2">http://www.mccrackenhorns.com/McCrackenHorns/Dbl_Des_Trpl.html#2</LINK_TEXT>
But to get out of the Wessex league, it would need to look and PLAY more like this:
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Tooloud"]But comparing a true Alexander to a Wessex....? :roll: You would trade the Hoy Grail to a carboard coffee cup? @Finetales, do you know, what you are talking about?[/quote]
...what?
The only thing Alex about that horn is some of the valves. Also...Alexanders from all eras are extremely inconsistent so those components could easily be dogs.
Do YOU know what you're talking about?
...what?
The only thing Alex about that horn is some of the valves. Also...Alexanders from all eras are extremely inconsistent so those components could easily be dogs.
Do YOU know what you're talking about?
- whitbey
- Posts: 654
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Seem like you could add a small trombone slide to that.
Super horn!?!?!?
Super horn!?!?!?
- Tooloud
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Mar 31, 2018
[quote="Finetales"]...what?
The only thing Alex about that horn is some of the valves. Also...Alexanders from all eras are extremely inconsistent so those components could easily be dogs.
Do YOU know what you're talking about?[/quote]
On Alex: The newer ones are very consistent - and everyone I heard and / or put my mouthpiece on was great in every aspect of craftmanship and sound. Maybe, because it's been a dream to own one for so long long, maybe because I live in the neighbourhood, so I may be a little preoccupied about the brand. But the people at Alexanders in Mainz are all very fine craftsmen und persons.
On this one: No, It might have been too early this morning, so I didn't accurately read the description. My fault!
Last: No, you can't compare are real Alexander, Schmid, Comford, Dürk, Otto etc to a chinese made Wessex. No way. Chinese made instruments may be quite ok these days, but they all still lack something. As you can't compare a Toyota to a Porsche. Btw, I own a Toyota, my girl a Porsche (right job, eh?), so I know...
The only thing Alex about that horn is some of the valves. Also...Alexanders from all eras are extremely inconsistent so those components could easily be dogs.
Do YOU know what you're talking about?[/quote]
On Alex: The newer ones are very consistent - and everyone I heard and / or put my mouthpiece on was great in every aspect of craftmanship and sound. Maybe, because it's been a dream to own one for so long long, maybe because I live in the neighbourhood, so I may be a little preoccupied about the brand. But the people at Alexanders in Mainz are all very fine craftsmen und persons.
On this one: No, It might have been too early this morning, so I didn't accurately read the description. My fault!
Last: No, you can't compare are real Alexander, Schmid, Comford, Dürk, Otto etc to a chinese made Wessex. No way. Chinese made instruments may be quite ok these days, but they all still lack something. As you can't compare a Toyota to a Porsche. Btw, I own a Toyota, my girl a Porsche (right job, eh?), so I know...
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Tooloud"]Last: No, you can't compare are real Alexander, Schmid, Comford, Dürk, Otto etc to a chinese made Wessex. No way. Chinese made instruments may be quite ok these days, but they all still lack something. As you can't compare a Toyota to a Porsche. Btw, I own a Toyota, my girl a Porsche (right job, eh?), so I know...[/quote]
With horns, definitely. They're not there yet. Some of Wessex's low brass are phenomenal. But I would definitely not try to say that a Wessex triple is anywhere near as good as one of the established triples. But for someone who wants a triple without taking out a second mortgage? Can't be beat. As this 8D/Olds/Alex 10-valve Franken-triple is $5k I would still choose the Wessex first. It's a cool experiment though.
With horns, definitely. They're not there yet. Some of Wessex's low brass are phenomenal. But I would definitely not try to say that a Wessex triple is anywhere near as good as one of the established triples. But for someone who wants a triple without taking out a second mortgage? Can't be beat. As this 8D/Olds/Alex 10-valve Franken-triple is $5k I would still choose the Wessex first. It's a cool experiment though.
- BillO
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
10?
I count 3 double layer valves and one single layer valve that changes between the layer of the other valves. Even if you count the double layer valves as 2 valves, that give 7. How do you get 10? Just curious.
I count 3 double layer valves and one single layer valve that changes between the layer of the other valves. Even if you count the double layer valves as 2 valves, that give 7. How do you get 10? Just curious.
- Neo_Bri
- Posts: 1342
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
[quote="BillO"]10?
I count 3 double layer valves and one single layer valve that changes between the layer of the other valves. Even if you count the double layer valves as 2 valves, that give 7. How do you get 10? Just curious.[/quote]
I saw 10 spinny things that looked like valve caps, so I figure 10 valves.
I count 3 double layer valves and one single layer valve that changes between the layer of the other valves. Even if you count the double layer valves as 2 valves, that give 7. How do you get 10? Just curious.[/quote]
I saw 10 spinny things that looked like valve caps, so I figure 10 valves.
- BillO
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Neo Bri"]I saw 10 spinny things that looked like valve caps, so I figure 10 valves.[/quote]Ahhh, well it sure is eye candy and looks very well built in those photos. Wheter it has only 4 valves or 10, it would be very cool to have 'n' hold.
Here's hoping you go for it and let us know what it plays like.
Here's hoping you go for it and let us know what it plays like.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="BillO"]I count 3 double layer valves and one single layer valve that changes between the layer of the other valves. Even if you count the double layer valves as 2 valves, that give 7. How do you get 10? Just curious.[/quote]
It's easier to see in the second pic.
That is a lot of valves.
It's easier to see in the second pic.
That is a lot of valves.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
You're going to need several left thumbs to work all the "shift" valves!!!
- boneagain
- Posts: 276
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
[quote="BGuttman"]You're going to need several left thumbs to work all the "shift" valves!!![/quote]
Many of those 10 valves are ganged: one lever operates more than one rotor.
So, there are two side-by-side thumb levers and three main levers.
No worse than early double valve bass trombones.
Many of those 10 valves are ganged: one lever operates more than one rotor.
So, there are two side-by-side thumb levers and three main levers.
No worse than early double valve bass trombones.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="boneagain"]<QUOTE author="BGuttman" post_id="61881" time="1529505481" user_id="53">
You're going to need several left thumbs to work all the "shift" valves!!![/quote]
Many of those 10 valves are ganged: one lever operates more than one rotor.
So, there are two side-by-side thumb levers and three main levers.
No worse than early double valve bass trombones.</QUOTE>
Or the standard configuration for most triple horns. It's just that on a normal triple, the main valveset uses triple-decker valves and the changeovers are double-deckers. On this horn, each changeover is a pair of ganged single-plane valves, the F alto and B flat paths run through a set of dual-planes, and the F basso path runs through a separate set of single-planes (ganged to the dual plane set).
I suspect they used single-plane change valves to allow more flexibility in where the valves were placed, while they had to gang the main set because they didn't have any triple-plane valves laying around.
You think this one looks wild? Ever seen a[url=https://www.hornsociety.org/150-hornplayer/hornplayer/582-v-horn]Veneklasen horn?
You're going to need several left thumbs to work all the "shift" valves!!![/quote]
Many of those 10 valves are ganged: one lever operates more than one rotor.
So, there are two side-by-side thumb levers and three main levers.
No worse than early double valve bass trombones.</QUOTE>
Or the standard configuration for most triple horns. It's just that on a normal triple, the main valveset uses triple-decker valves and the changeovers are double-deckers. On this horn, each changeover is a pair of ganged single-plane valves, the F alto and B flat paths run through a set of dual-planes, and the F basso path runs through a separate set of single-planes (ganged to the dual plane set).
I suspect they used single-plane change valves to allow more flexibility in where the valves were placed, while they had to gang the main set because they didn't have any triple-plane valves laying around.
You think this one looks wild? Ever seen a