Sauer screw bell

Chatname · by **Chatname** » 2019-12-04 3:22 p.m.

I haven’t seen the Sauer screw bell IRL, but am interested!

Why f-attachment? Considering he was known for playing an 8H most of his career. Is it necessary for weight balance, or could one use a counterweight instead if one wants to have a straight trombone?

Anyone with experience who would like to share how they like this model?

CalgaryTbone · by **CalgaryTbone** » 2019-12-04 5:20 p.m.

Ralph played a detachable 8H/88H setup for most of his career, playing the attachment side when he needed it. The Shires can also be converted to a straight set-up. Also, straight .547's are not getting the same use nowadays since F attachment horns are almost universally played in that bore size. I'm sure that Shires would have wanted there to be a valve offered with the horn for greater appeal to potential buyers.

When we had Ralph here as a guest at the local University, he played the horn with a valve the whole time he was here, including for his short recital before his Masterclass. He sounded great, by the way!

Jim Scott

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2019-12-04 5:38 p.m.

He's playing mostly solo repertoire as he tours and does masterclasses. No point in him using a straight horn for that.

His horn plays really, really well by the way.

mbarbier · by **mbarbier** » 2019-12-04 6:12 p.m.

Same here- I've only seen him with a valve when I've heard him play.

A student of mine had one- really really nice horn. I really enjoyed playing it. He has the dual bore version. The case was pretty nicely built but I much prefer the Bona. That one felt very awkward to carry.

Chatname · by **Chatname** » 2019-12-05 8:53 a.m.

That’s really interesting; thank you for your insights!

CornyBone · by **CornyBone** » 2019-12-05 12:58 p.m.

[quote="mbarbier"]A student of mine had one- really really nice horn. I really enjoyed playing it. He has the dual bore version. The case was pretty nicely built but I much prefer the Bona. That one felt very awkward to carry.[/quote]

I agree, I play said horn and it's an absolute joy to play. The case is a total pain though. The Bonna cases are much better ;)

Dennis · by **Dennis** » 2019-12-10 8:25 p.m.

I have a few questions about the Sauer.

I currently play a 13xxx Corporation 36B in brass band. I'm thinking seriously about adding a Shires Sauer to the stable.

Do you use a large shank or small shank mouthpiece with it? What is the difference? How sensitive is it to mouthpiece choice?

One of the things I have against the model 42 is that it is too much like a bass for my tastes. The only one I've played that is fun to play is the Anniversary model with gold brass bell. With the .525 dual bore I assume this is clearly a tenor rather than a tenor/bass. Is this correct?

Have you tried it as a straight horn (i.e., gooseneck rather than valve)? How is it as a straight horn? Is there room in the case for a gooseneck?

In what ways is the case a total pain?

Thanks in advance!

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2019-12-10 9:14 p.m.

I don't own one, so take this with a grain of salt.

1. I used large, a Greg Black New York. Worked quite well for me.

2. Well, you're comparing perhaps the most "bass" .547 to all the others. Literally any other large tenor ever made is a little less of a "bass" than the 42 (and the other horns modeled after it). There is a whole spectrum of large tenors that are quite tenory, including the Sauer (which is a Shires 88H, basically).

3. Dunno.

4. It's a box. Not a large one, but it can feel a bit unwieldy. The MB screwbell cases are definitely a little more fun to carry around.

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2019-12-10 10:41 p.m.

[quote="Dennis"]I have a few questions about the Sauer.

I currently play a 13xxx Corporation 36B in brass band. I'm thinking seriously about adding a Shires Sauer to the stable.

[/quote]

Surely there is a way to try this trombone before you buy it, thus answering these questions the only way you can actually answer them.

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2019-12-11 8:09 a.m.

I played one at a conference, and I loved it. I'm an 88h/525 player, and not otherwise a big Shires fan. The screw bell gave some obvious differences, bit it wasn't a negative for playability.

The duo bore valve was my favorite. Light and snappy. Don't let the size of the valve fool you. It's a great playing valve. The horn was a bit front heavy without the valve, but played large the way you expect a Shires to, even with the dual bore slide.

Overall a great horn. You might appreciate it more if you aren't a daily 88h player.

For some people cases are status symbols. To me, it's just something you use when you're not playing. To me any screwball case is a pain because you have to unscrew the bell every time. It only makes sense for travel, or fitting in a small locker.

Dennis · by **Dennis** » 2019-12-11 9:48 a.m.

[quote="harrisonreed"]<QUOTE author="Dennis" post_id="99773" time="1576027538" user_id="175">
I have a few questions about the Sauer.

I currently play a 13xxx Corporation 36B in brass band. I'm thinking seriously about adding a Shires Sauer to the stable.

[/quote]

Surely there is a way to try this trombone before you buy it, thus answering these questions the only way you can actually answer them.
</QUOTE>

Sure. Travel to Boston. That is not in the cards right now. The Shires dealers in my area don't have one and don't seem interested in having one.

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2019-12-11 4:31 p.m.

[quote="Dennis"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="99780" time="1576035704" user_id="3642">

Surely there is a way to try this trombone before you buy it, thus answering these questions the only way you can actually answer them.[/quote]

Sure. Travel to Boston. That is not in the cards right now. The Shires dealers in my area don't have one and don't seem interested in having one.
</QUOTE>

I meant, educators you could take a lesson from, friends, or brass festivals.

Jimkinkella · by **Jimkinkella** » 2019-12-13 7:43 p.m.

Late to the party,

FYI my understanding is that Ralph had a few 88hs in addition to his 8hs, both Early Elkhart and more modern.

I have experience with a convertible Eastlake he had, and it is much, much better with the valve than straight. A pretty great horn, as well.

I wouldn’t mind checking out the Shires version, though.

FEWeathers · by **FEWeathers** » 2019-12-13 9:04 p.m.

FWIW, Ralph uses a small shank mouthpiece on his signature Shires horn, as he did on the 88HTO with the SL2547 slide. A picture is worth a 1,000 words...

heinzgries · by **heinzgries** » 2019-12-16 5:01 p.m.

Which mouthpiece is on the photo?

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2019-12-16 5:02 p.m.

Skeletonized Schilke 51.

FEWeathers · 2019-12-16 8:38 p.m.

oops.

FEWeathers · by **FEWeathers** » 2019-12-16 8:39 p.m.

[quote=FEWeathers post_id=100165 time=1576546722 user_id=4230]

"Ralph has a custom Schilke mouthpiece, essentially a 51 rim on a 50 cup in a special lightweight blank. It's small shank..."

^^Gabe Langfur on page 16 of the old Shires Q&A thread.

disco · by **disco** » 2019-12-17 3:23 p.m.

They make the RS leadpipe .525 in a large bore. I play it in my SL2547 slide.

ChadA · by **ChadA** » 2019-12-17 4:19 p.m.

[quote="disco"]They make the RS leadpipe .525 in a large bore. I play it in my SL2547 slide.[/quote]

Does that pipe fit well in the Conn slide? I tried a different Shires 525 pipe in my Conn slide and it wouldn’t go all the way in.

disco · by **disco** » 2019-12-18 2:21 a.m.

Yes, but I have the bi thread adapter from instrument innovations

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Sauer screw bell