Custom counterweight

hyperbolica · 2020-02-12 10:15 p.m.

I've got a Bach 36c, which I just discovered plays great without the valve. But it's front heavy, and the tuning slide brace is too close to the rear bell brace for a traditional counterweight to fit. I know there are those old asymmetrical counterweights from Holton, I think, but where do you find those? I want to avoid taping a fishing sinker to the brace if I can. Does anyone have any ideas for custom counterweights that don't look embarrassing?

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2020-02-12 10:19 p.m.

The Edwards TERD looks embarrassing but not as embarrassing as a plumb lead or fishing weight.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2020-02-12 10:46 p.m.

I have a 36C also. The weight from a Bestler (Chinese) is normally intended to screw into a tapped brace on the tuning slide, but it fits tight enough on my 36C to work just wedged in. If you really wanted someone could tap the tuning slide brace so you could use the screw.

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2020-02-12 11:01 p.m.

Huh. Can I buy one of those without buying a horn? Where would I find one?

I have some taps, I could probably drill and tap it myself.

Can you get a picture to show me what it's like?

=============

Oh, OK, I see.

Bestler Valve Bb Trombone Brass <LINK_TEXT text="https://reverb.com/item/15490649-bestle ... bone-brass">https://reverb.com/item/15490649-bestler-valve-bb-trombone-brass?utm_source=android-app&utm_medium=android-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=15490649-bestler-valve-bb-trombone-brass</LINK_TEXT>

Matt_K · by **Matt_K** » 2020-02-13 12:59 a.m.

Looks like there are some for sale but there's an entire horn going for only a little more than one of the counterweights...

$150 -> <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Holton ... SwV1Bc7qwz">https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Holton-Trombone-Counterweight-Make-an-Offer/392304902091?hash=item5b5731bfcb:g:12oAAOSwV1Bc7qwz</LINK_TEXT>

(Though they do have a "make an offer"... I honestly can't imagine they're in tremendous demand... so it can't hurt to make one).

$199 -> <LINK_TEXT text="https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtg-20-s-Frank ... Swx5JcqnHe">https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtg-20-s-Frank-HOLTON-Silver-Plated-REVELATION-TROMBONE-w-Rare-Counterweight/124073679103?hash=item1ce35e18ff:g:-sYAAOSwx5JcqnHe</LINK_TEXT>

You could also do what the Olds ambassador used to do:
<ATTACHMENT filename="ambassador trombone.jpg" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~ambassador trombone.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

Either find one for cheap and just steal the mechanism off of it or possibly have a tech make you something that will work. I can't imagine it would take much labor to cut a bell brace to the size of a counterweight, solder it to the rod, and then solder that to the top of the tuning slide, although such a contraption might not be the most aesthetically pleasing.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2020-02-13 6:47 a.m.

[quote="hyperbolica"]Huh. Can I buy one of those without buying a horn? Where would I find one?

I have some taps, I could probably drill and tap it myself.

Can you get a picture to show me what it's like?

=============

Oh, OK, I see.

Bestler Valve Bb Trombone Brass <LINK_TEXT text="https://reverb.com/item/15490649-bestle ... bone-brass">https://reverb.com/item/15490649-bestler-valve-bb-trombone-brass?utm_source=android-app&utm_medium=android-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=15490649-bestler-valve-bb-trombone-brass</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]

I got a basket case Bestler to play with repairing. About the only working part was the tuning slide. I later got a silver one that was in great shape and almost played OK but I had too many horns and donated it to my orchestra's Silent Auction. Whomever bought it got at least a nice wall hanger.

If I get a chance I'll take a picture of the 36C in "staight" mode with the Bestler counterweight.. Note that the weight is threaded and all you need is the screw (I misplaced mine).

afugate · by **afugate** » 2020-02-13 7:18 a.m.

[quote="Matt K"]You could also do what the Olds ambassador used to do:[/quote]

This is my thought, too.

--Andy in OKC

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2020-02-13 9:07 a.m.

Yeah, that Holton one was what I had in mind. I had one years ago, but sold it for $25.

Vegastokc · by **Vegastokc** » 2020-02-13 9:38 a.m.

I recently bought a late 50's Getzen Super Deluxe that has a clamp-on hex bar counter weight. It's about 1/2" diameter. Intersting and kind of weird. First time I have seen one like this on a Getzen. The horn also has the standard smaller hex bar welded to the end of the tuning slide that seems to be plenty of counter for the copper bell. (Sorry, Im at work right no so cannot post pic.)

Vegastokc · by **Vegastokc** » 2020-02-14 7:31 p.m.

Here's a picture if anyones interested.

Sorry if it is sideways but y'all get the idea.

Can clamp it to any cross brace to change center of gravity but i usually just leave it off.

Weighs 7.9 oz

<ATTACHMENT filename="20200214_181447.jpg" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~20200214_181447.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

Oslide · by **Oslide** » 2020-02-15 8:47 a.m.

I have one of those Holton counterweights shown in Hyperbolica's picture, but I would never put it on a tuning slide brace as it could exert considerable torsional force on the brace in case of a sudden lateral hit.

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2020-02-15 2:05 p.m.

I had the same problem with my 42 C when I owned it. I didn't keep it long enough to consider bracing it.

Cmillar · by **Cmillar** » 2020-02-15 9:05 p.m.

Just buy the cheap counter-weight from Hickeys. ($25 or so?)

I have an old Bach 16 with brass slide, and it's very nose-heavy....or, used to be, until I bought this weight.

BUT...I had to buy 2 longer machine screws from Lowe's hardware in order to make it fit.

Now, the two halves don't touch each other because of the larger Bach brace diameter, but the halves make contact with 4 points of the weight touching the brace.

And, it actually looks pretty cool!

Just get the longer screws to replace the ones in the package.

FullPedalTrombonist · by **FullPedalTrombonist** » 2020-02-15 10:06 p.m.

I am in the middle of finding a solution for a similar problem. No place for a typical counterweight, but I need one. I found these items while looking for ways to attach a weight.

They’re called “brass pipe clamps” and I found no other name for them. But they’re used to have nice looking exposed pipe and, for an Etsy store, just home decor.

It might be possible to find small enough ones to fit on bracing or to put it on the tuning slide tube or neckpipe tube. The screw on bracket could be replaced with a gimbal weight. I think my solution would be to simply solder a chunk of brass to the clamp.

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2020-02-15 10:46 p.m.

That's a harmonic brace!

DJWPE · by **DJWPE** » 2020-02-16 12:19 a.m.

[quote="FullPedalTrombonist"]I am in the middle of finding a solution for a similar problem. No place for a typical counterweight, but I need one. I found these items while looking for ways to attach a weight.

They’re called “brass pipe clamps” and I found no other name for them. But they’re used to have nice looking exposed pipe and, for an Etsy store, just home decor.

It might be possible to find small enough ones to fit on bracing or to put it on the tuning slide tube or neckpipe tube. The screw on bracket could be replaced with a gimbal weight. I think my solution would be to simply solder a chunk of brass to the clamp.[/quote]

The correct name for that product is “split ring pipe hanger”

FullPedalTrombonist · by **FullPedalTrombonist** » 2020-02-16 10:27 a.m.

[quote="DJWPE"]

The correct name for that product is “split ring pipe hanger”[/quote]

Thank you!

etbone · by **etbone** » 2020-02-17 10:05 a.m.

Would simply using, standard Bach or aftermarket counterweight, rotated 90 degrees sold the problem. Of course, putting horn in standard case, would be a problem. No problem, for gig bag.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2020-02-17 10:58 a.m.

[quote="etbone"]Would simply using, standard Bach or aftermarket counterweight, rotated 90 degrees solve the problem. Of course, putting horn in standard case, would be a problem. No problem, for gig bag.[/quote]

It works, but it looks a bit odd. Also, as you point out it makes putting it in a hard case difficult.

FeelMyRath · by **FeelMyRath** » 2020-02-17 1:27 p.m.

Rath make a detachable counterweight for convertible 'bones. Not cheap, but probably exactly what you are after and requires no modifications.

CharlieB · by **CharlieB** » 2020-02-18 9:27 a.m.

Vegastokc above suggested a Geezen counterweight.

Here's one on ebay:

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.ebay.com/itm/Getzen-Vintage ... SwOEJeS1IT">https://www.ebay.com/itm/Getzen-Vintage-Tenor-Trombone-Counterweight-Rare-and-Beautiful/283786782979?hash=item421302a903:g:19UAAOSwOEJeS1IT</LINK_TEXT>

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2020-02-18 9:54 a.m.

Thanks, that looks perfect!

Vegastokc · by **Vegastokc** » 2020-02-18 10:30 a.m.

[quote="CharlieB"]Vegastokc above suggested a Geezen counterweight.

Here's one on ebay:

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.ebay.com/itm/Getzen-Vintage ... SwOEJeS1IT">https://www.ebay.com/itm/Getzen-Vintage-Tenor-Trombone-Counterweight-Rare-and-Beautiful/283786782979?hash=item421302a903:g:19UAAOSwOEJeS1IT</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]

Nice catch CharlieB. :good:

That one is in way better shape then the one I have. :)

heldenbone · by **heldenbone** » 2020-02-20 2:14 p.m.

I dealt with the same problem on an Olds S-20 - TIS makes it very front-heavy.

<ATTACHMENT filename="20200216_185949.jpg" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~20200216_185949.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

It was fabricated from various Olds parts in a tech's junk box.

drbucher · by **drbucher** » 2022-04-05 5:11 p.m.

I have two generic nickel silver counterweights from Hickey's (0.3 lb each; 4.8 oz). I attached half of the second one to the other full counterweight, using a stainless steel bolt.The entire assembly is rotated a quarter turn to show off the mirror edge finish rather than show the dull empty circular shape. It looks quite attractive, adding 7.2 oz to my Holton TR-156, which is front-heavy. It works quite well. I'd add a photo if I could figure out how.

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