Schilke 59 /58 question

dukesboneman · by **dukesboneman** » 2020-02-27 1:44 p.m.

Hey all,

Are the Schilke 58 & 59 Bass Trombone mouthpieces the same cup depth and throat? Just that the 59 is a little bigger or are there other differences?

Thanks

WGWTR180 · by **WGWTR180** » 2020-02-27 3:17 p.m.

Completely different.

marccromme · by **marccromme** » 2020-02-27 3:34 p.m.

And if you want a better Schilke in the 59 size, try a Laskey 85MD

dukesboneman · by **dukesboneman** » 2020-02-28 7:43 a.m.

I phoned Schilke and asked the same question.

Same back bore

59 has a slightly deeper cup

Kbiggs · by **Kbiggs** » 2020-02-28 9:23 a.m.

You might also try Karl Hammond’s 19BL and 20BL. He used to work for Schilke and, IIRC, helped develop their Symphony line of tenor and bass mpcs.

Mv2541 · by **Mv2541** » 2020-02-28 3:56 p.m.

[quote="Kbiggs"]You might also try Karl Hammond’s 19BL and 20BL. He used to work for Schilke and, IIRC, helped develop their Symphony line of tenor and bass mpcs.[/quote]

Just saying the throats on the Hammonds are much larger than the Schilkes. Even the larger 59 has about a .300 throat compared to the .316 on the Hammonds.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2020-02-28 3:56 p.m.

[quote="dukesboneman"]I phoned Schilke and asked the same question.

Same back bore

59 has a slightly deeper cup[/quote]

Yup, so completely different :)

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2020-02-28 5:05 p.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="dukesboneman" post_id="105817" time="1582893818" user_id="2940">
Same back bore

59 has a slightly deeper cup[/quote]

Yup, so completely different :)
</QUOTE>

59 cup is larger diameter, as well as deeper, than 58. Both have very large throats.

My measurements:

Model ||||| Cup I.D. (mm/in.) ||| Throat (mm/in.)

Schilke 58 |||27.20 / 1.070" |||||| 7.67 / 0.302"

Schilke 59 |||27.85 / 1.096" | ||||| 7.67 / 0.302"

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2020-02-28 5:33 p.m.

[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob" post_id="105855" time="1582923417" user_id="3131">

Yup, so completely different :)[/quote]

59 cup is larger diameter, as well as deeper, than 58. Both have very large throats.

My measurements:

Model ||||| Cup I.D. (mm/in.) ||| Throat (mm/in.)

Schilke 58 |||27.20 / 1.070" |||||| 7.67 / 0.302"

Schilke 59 |||27.85 / 1.096" | ||||| 7.67 / 0.302"
</QUOTE>

I'm not sure I would quantify .302 as very large.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2020-02-28 6:21 p.m.

[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="Posaunus" post_id="105861" time="1582927504" user_id="158">

59 cup is larger diameter, as well as deeper, than 58. Both have very large throats.

My measurements:

Model ||||| Cup I.D. (mm/in.) ||| Throat (mm/in.)

Schilke 58 |||27.20 / 1.070" |||||| 7.67 / 0.302"

Schilke 59 |||27.85 / 1.096" | ||||| 7.67 / 0.302"[/quote]

I'm not sure I would quantify .302 as very large.
</QUOTE>

To me, 0.302" is a pretty big throat. Plenty large for me. Bach 1¼G, 1½G, 2G, etc. have specified throats of a mere 0.276." Bach 1G throat is listed at 0.319" - too large for me, but I'm not a full-time bass trombonist.

However, I understand that in the times of the bass trombone arms race, larger is better. ;)

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2020-02-28 6:24 p.m.

[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob" post_id="105867" time="1582929231" user_id="3131">

I'm not sure I would quantify .302 as very large.[/quote]

To me, 0.302" is a pretty big throat. Plenty large for me. Bach 1¼G, 1½G, 2G, etc. have specified throats of a mere 0.276." Bach 1G throat is listed at 0.319" - too large for me, but I'm not a full-time bass trombonist.

However, I understand that in the times of the bass trombone arms race, larger is better. ;)

</QUOTE>

Of course, that's not true. But as mentioned above, most modern mouthpieces have something like a .312, which is not as large as it gets. .300 is a middle ground.

FullPedalTrombonist · 2020-02-28 6:48 p.m.

As far as they play I notice quite a bit of difference. More than switching rims on the same DE mouthpiece. So to me that means there’s some difference because of the cup volume or shape, and specifically the cup if Schilke says the backbore is the same shape.

58: more dense and maybe easier to color.

59: more clarity of tone, but less crisp beginnings of articulations.

Pretty general observations across one long shank and one short shank 58, and one long shank 59, a couple short shank 59’s, and one Symphony 5.9 of some flavor.

EDIT: not a 5.9, but a 59 that had a shallower cup. I asked my old classmate what it was and if he still had it. I just remember it having the same knurling as my *5.3

jimtheob · by **jimtheob** » 2020-03-01 8:06 p.m.

Just to throw a bit into the mix, I just bought a Getzen 1062 bass and I was having trouble with pedals. In desperation I bought a used Bach 1G and my pedals became just what I wanted and I can slot well into upper register. Just goes to show that everyone is different. Only problem it is a bit tiring to play on the immense cup for long periods. Have to work on my stamina.

dukesboneman · by **dukesboneman** » 2020-03-02 5:03 p.m.

I think I`ll see if I can get a hold of a 58

dukesboneman · by **dukesboneman** » 2020-03-07 7:36 p.m.

I picked up a 58 and so far I`m really liking it.

The sound is a little more compact, but sooooo much easier to focus and attack

when playing above tuning Bb. For me just more even top to bottom

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Schilke 59 /58 question