All The Way: Bill Watrous/Patrick Williams Big Band
- AndrewMeronek
- Posts: 1487
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
Can't help but love Watrous' playing. But, I kind of don't really love this recording. He's super-strong in the mix, making this sound more like a trombone solo with big band backgrounds than an integrated piece for jazz orchestra. 3:20-ish is even supposed to be a trombone section soli, and that kind of gets lost.
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- boneapart
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Aug 13, 2018
Great chart! Patrick Williams is one of the best arrangers.
I largely disagree with Andrew's comment. The piece is meant to feature solo trombone front and center--all the way you might say. The other horns are window dressing though the trumpets have space to assert themselves in places. Incidentally, the word "soli" doesn't appear on any of the trombones' parts. I hear only one spot (m.57-59) that might be considered a soli. Yes, he's at the top, but he's as mellow here as elsewhere.
I largely disagree with Andrew's comment. The piece is meant to feature solo trombone front and center--all the way you might say. The other horns are window dressing though the trumpets have space to assert themselves in places. Incidentally, the word "soli" doesn't appear on any of the trombones' parts. I hear only one spot (m.57-59) that might be considered a soli. Yes, he's at the top, but he's as mellow here as elsewhere.
- AndrewMeronek
- Posts: 1487
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
[quote="boneapart"]I hear only one spot (m.57-59) that might be considered a soli.[/quote]
M. 56-59 is marked "As written - soli w/section" in the solo part.
M. 56-59 is marked "As written - soli w/section" in the solo part.
- Gary
- Posts: 283
- Joined: Jan 11, 2019
Now, this is a sincere, not a snarky, question. What would Bill Watrous be without amplification?
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Bill was capable of playing very loud - I heard him demonstrate that at a clinic in response to a question - but he chose to play soft with perfect control because it was more possible to sound the way he wanted and have endurance at the same time.
- AndrewMeronek
- Posts: 1487
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
[quote="Gary"]Now, this is a sincere, not a snarky, question. What would Bill Watrous be without amplification?[/quote]
To be clear, I'm not complaining about his amplification or style at all. My criticism is more about the total production that makes him sound not like a part of the group. Maybe some of that is Watrous' choices, but maybe (and likely) also choices by the engineers and producers that led to this result. Recordings are almost never done in a "solo" vacuum. Of course, I don't really know any details of the production. I just have my opinions on the end result.
To be clear, I'm not complaining about his amplification or style at all. My criticism is more about the total production that makes him sound not like a part of the group. Maybe some of that is Watrous' choices, but maybe (and likely) also choices by the engineers and producers that led to this result. Recordings are almost never done in a "solo" vacuum. Of course, I don't really know any details of the production. I just have my opinions on the end result.
- Samdance
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Nov 29, 2018
Andrew,
I love this entire CD, but I know what you mean. Most likely the choices in mix were made much later in the mixdown.
As far as the commentary on Watrous with or without a mic, this has been talked to death since the late 70's. Opinions are like earlobes, everyone has them.
I will say that having met and played with Bill more than a few times, sitting next to him was amazing.
I love this entire CD, but I know what you mean. Most likely the choices in mix were made much later in the mixdown.
As far as the commentary on Watrous with or without a mic, this has been talked to death since the late 70's. Opinions are like earlobes, everyone has them.
I will say that having met and played with Bill more than a few times, sitting next to him was amazing.
- AndrewMeronek
- Posts: 1487
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
[quote="Samdance"]I will say that having met and played with Bill more than a few times, sitting next to him was amazing.[/quote]
I don't doubt it! That dude could play.
I don't doubt it! That dude could play.
- baileyman
- Posts: 1169
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
[quote="Doug Elliott"]Bill was capable of playing very loud - I heard him demonstrate that at a clinic in response to a question - but he chose to play soft with perfect control because it was more possible to sound the way he wanted and have endurance at the same time.[/quote]
Check out Kai Winding's "Dirty Dog" for pieces of Bill rivaling Urbie for the hot sound. And Urbie could blow the doors off.
Check out Kai Winding's "Dirty Dog" for pieces of Bill rivaling Urbie for the hot sound. And Urbie could blow the doors off.
- dershem
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Aug 16, 2018
[quote="Gary"]Now, this is a sincere, not a snarky, question. What would Bill Watrous be without amplification?[/quote]
Spectacular, that's what. I worked with Bill several times, and he cold play terrifylingly well without a mic. He just chose to use what was available to increase what he could get out of the horn the most efficiently.
Spectacular, that's what. I worked with Bill several times, and he cold play terrifylingly well without a mic. He just chose to use what was available to increase what he could get out of the horn the most efficiently.
- Gary
- Posts: 283
- Joined: Jan 11, 2019
Thanks. I heard him play with the NT Lab Band and he was great but he was buried in the mike, so I've wondered.
- tbdana
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Apr 08, 2023
Anyone know where I might get a copy of this chart? I'd like to play it.
Sorry to resurrect this old thread.
Sorry to resurrect this old thread.
- King2bPlus
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Apr 01, 2018
I have the chart.
- AndrewMeronek
- Posts: 1487
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
I put a link to Patrick's website (it still exists) in the other thread about jazz chart retailers and I sent them an inquiry through that platform, and I've heard nothing back. Probably, no one is maintaining that site right now except to keep paying the domain fees perhaps as a tribute? I don't know.
Makes it tough to support that estate when a self-published chart is still under copyright but there seems to be no one to actually sell it.
Sometimes charts make their way to be owned by a university library somewhere. I'm not sure how to see if that happened in this case.
Makes it tough to support that estate when a self-published chart is still under copyright but there seems to be no one to actually sell it.
Sometimes charts make their way to be owned by a university library somewhere. I'm not sure how to see if that happened in this case.