Slide Lock question
- u_11561man
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Aug 22, 2019
I've always wondered this. Should the slide lock be engaged after rotating it once around from it's "standard" position, or not? In other words, using the slide lock from the position where can can no longer rotate counterclockwise, or using it after it has been rotated once clockwise. I hope that makes sense...
I have not been able to get a straight answer, and I've heard both ways. Insights?
I have not been able to get a straight answer, and I've heard both ways. Insights?
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
If you screw the slide lock collar on as far as it will go you sometimes cannot trap the slide (making it not terribly effective). I generally open it one full turn so that it is free to rotate all the way on to the pawl.
What's the right answer? Whatever works for you. Some folks actually remove the slide lock collar because they claim it interferes with their playing. Not me.
What's the right answer? Whatever works for you. Some folks actually remove the slide lock collar because they claim it interferes with their playing. Not me.
- u_11561man
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Aug 22, 2019
I figured one way vs another could have an effect on slide alignment, but not so sure.
- Bonearzt
- Posts: 833
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="11561man"]I figured one way vs another could have an effect on slide alignment, but not so sure.[/quote]
Not in my experience...
I prefer to have it snug when rotated "open"/slide free so that it won't vibrate when I'm playing or move on it's own and catch the slide inadvertently.
Also, on my personal slide, I fit the felts in the cork barrel so that I have about 3/8" travel from fully closed to hitting the lock tab as I prefer to tune with my slide out.
Hope that makes sense...
Eric
Not in my experience...
I prefer to have it snug when rotated "open"/slide free so that it won't vibrate when I'm playing or move on it's own and catch the slide inadvertently.
Also, on my personal slide, I fit the felts in the cork barrel so that I have about 3/8" travel from fully closed to hitting the lock tab as I prefer to tune with my slide out.
Hope that makes sense...
Eric
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
I like it to be threaded on all the way until it stops, and I consider it to be properly installed if it stops about 1/8" beyond the slide lug. That way there is a positive stopping point when you unlock the slide, and it's much less likely to get out of position while you're playing and causing you to inadvertently slam the lug (or the slide brace) into the lock arm.
- Kevbach33
- Posts: 295
- Joined: May 29, 2018
On my bass I don't have a choice since the slide lock is built into the cork barrel. If it's not screwed all the way in, it's rattle city all day.
I keep my tenors a quick turn away to lock. That means screwed in completely. I don't like the idea of having the lock suddenly turn to a position where it could bang on the lug upon returning to first position. Also, the rattling I mentioned above would also happen, just to a lesser degree than on the bass.
Of course, some horns may not allow you to lock the slide from tightened. And, YMMV.
I keep my tenors a quick turn away to lock. That means screwed in completely. I don't like the idea of having the lock suddenly turn to a position where it could bang on the lug upon returning to first position. Also, the rattling I mentioned above would also happen, just to a lesser degree than on the bass.
Of course, some horns may not allow you to lock the slide from tightened. And, YMMV.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
I always have mine all the way tightened.
Also, if yours rattles, just lube it.
Also, if yours rattles, just lube it.
- Vegastokc
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Jun 15, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]Also, if yours rattles, just lube it.[/quote]
That's sound advice in many situations. :good:
Signed, 15 year old me :lol:
Also, this lock info does not apply to those old Getzens with that tiny button screw that you have to take off completely - and promptly lose - before playing. :roll:
That's sound advice in many situations. :good:
Signed, 15 year old me :lol:
Also, this lock info does not apply to those old Getzens with that tiny button screw that you have to take off completely - and promptly lose - before playing. :roll:
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
[quote="Vegastokc"]Also, this lock info does not apply to those old Getzens with that tiny button screw that you have to take off completely - and promptly lose - before playing. :roll:[/quote]
Huh? Getzen made trombones with slide locks that had to be completely removed from the instrument to play it? All old Getzens I've ever seen have the normal screw-on ring type.
Huh? Getzen made trombones with slide locks that had to be completely removed from the instrument to play it? All old Getzens I've ever seen have the normal screw-on ring type.
- RConrad
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Oct 17, 2018
All of my trombones are slightly different. My Bach's slide lock is the oddest since it has to be rotated a full turn from being fully screwed in to work. My Blessing and Benge both work without doing so. The Rath I use at school has a habit of unlocking itself as the lock just does whatever it wants half the time.
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
This is actually a fascinating discussion as I see that there are many different preferences on where and how the slide lock should be positioned. I’ll start with this....when I was in college, many players in my studio played WITHOUT a slide lock nut. The reason...a couple of us got caught off guard in performances with our slide locks engaged when we thought they were not. Surprise! The trombone slams into your face because you were not expecting the resistance! The other reason is that some of us thought the instrument responded a little easier without the slide lock nut. Try it....you might notice a difference. The same is true of the rubber bumper on the handslide crook. Without the rubber bumper, articulations tend to be a bit more precise.
My slide preferences are as follows: I like it to only rotate about 1/2 to 5/8 inch in order to disengage and be at it’s maximum rotation. That’s only about a 70 to 80 degree rotation. I also like it to fit snug against the middle of the lock lug when it is engaged. I don’t like it to have 1/8 inch or 3/8 inch clearance because then it can rotate easily beyond the lock lug in first position. I’m not saying that my way is right......it’s just my preference.
Something that has not been discussed is the position of the lug and the lock nut. I prefer it to all be on top. Those models that rotate around and stop on the under side of the top inner slide drive me crazy. Many of them get bumped by the outer slide as it comes into first position. Any of my horns that are assembled like that get rebuilt so that all of the slide lock business takes place on top of the slide.
My slide preferences are as follows: I like it to only rotate about 1/2 to 5/8 inch in order to disengage and be at it’s maximum rotation. That’s only about a 70 to 80 degree rotation. I also like it to fit snug against the middle of the lock lug when it is engaged. I don’t like it to have 1/8 inch or 3/8 inch clearance because then it can rotate easily beyond the lock lug in first position. I’m not saying that my way is right......it’s just my preference.
Something that has not been discussed is the position of the lug and the lock nut. I prefer it to all be on top. Those models that rotate around and stop on the under side of the top inner slide drive me crazy. Many of them get bumped by the outer slide as it comes into first position. Any of my horns that are assembled like that get rebuilt so that all of the slide lock business takes place on top of the slide.
- PaulT
- Posts: 383
- Joined: Jul 18, 2018
The bumper cushion (felt/cork) can be thinned or thickened to provide the amount of travel and snugness you prefer. There is a generous range of "travel to snugness" that is acceptable to me, but if, from a fully closed position, the slide lock barely reaches the catch or if rotates all the way to a stop without achieving a reassuring, hold-tight, snugness, I have the thickness of the cushion adjusted (thinned for the former, thickened for the later).
If I were to generalize...
- if the slide lock of a brand new horn barely reaches the catch, I would tend to be patient. The cushion will compress some with use and in the interim, you can rotate the lock an extra turn to allow more travel. If it does't improve, thin the cushion.
- if it is a well-used horn and the slide lock rotates all the way to a stop without getting snug enough to stay securely put, I would definitely thicken the amount of cushioning (put in some new/additional felt/cork). A slide lock that does not come to a snug hold is a slide lock that can't be trusted, Even if you never trust a slide lock, one distracted day ...
If I were to generalize...
- if the slide lock of a brand new horn barely reaches the catch, I would tend to be patient. The cushion will compress some with use and in the interim, you can rotate the lock an extra turn to allow more travel. If it does't improve, thin the cushion.
- if it is a well-used horn and the slide lock rotates all the way to a stop without getting snug enough to stay securely put, I would definitely thicken the amount of cushioning (put in some new/additional felt/cork). A slide lock that does not come to a snug hold is a slide lock that can't be trusted, Even if you never trust a slide lock, one distracted day ...
- PaulT
- Posts: 383
- Joined: Jul 18, 2018
I have thickened the bumper cushion of two horns.
I am waiting for the cushioning to compress some on a third (it is gradually improving). Meanwhile, I rotate its slide lock an extra turn to allow more "travel to snugness" when putting the horn down or transporting, But, I don't like to leave it in the "extra turn" position while playing as it can rattle. (although, if I don't think about it, I can ignore it)
(Yamaha horns)
I am waiting for the cushioning to compress some on a third (it is gradually improving). Meanwhile, I rotate its slide lock an extra turn to allow more "travel to snugness" when putting the horn down or transporting, But, I don't like to leave it in the "extra turn" position while playing as it can rattle. (although, if I don't think about it, I can ignore it)
(Yamaha horns)
- Vegastokc
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Jun 15, 2018
[quote="brassmedic"]<QUOTE author="Vegastokc" post_id="107572" time="1584629004" user_id="3403">
Also, this lock info does not apply to those old Getzens with that tiny button screw that you have to take off completely - and promptly lose - before playing. :roll:[/quote]
Huh? Getzen made trombones with slide locks that had to be completely removed from the instrument to play it? All old Getzens I've ever seen have the normal screw-on ring type.
</QUOTE>
Yeah, not sure when they started and stopped doing it but seems to be horns from 40's - late 50's. Definatly seems to be horns before the shop fire. Someone else may know better.
I have two old Getzens both from approx. late 50's. The 50 Deluxe has the screw, the Super Deluxe has normal ring type except it does not come off - just spins - and it turns counter clockwise to unlock.
Here a couple links to Dude 60's on ebay that have good pictures of it.
Neither of these are my posts.
My 50 Deluxe is not ornate like these Dudes.
The screw is only about 3/16" - 1/2" long and works better if just taken off completely when playing. Otherwise it rattles around, scraps on the outer slide and/or just falls out anyway.
[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/303513916528
Second link shows another Dude on ebay with the screw missing:
[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/133139140285
Also, this lock info does not apply to those old Getzens with that tiny button screw that you have to take off completely - and promptly lose - before playing. :roll:[/quote]
Huh? Getzen made trombones with slide locks that had to be completely removed from the instrument to play it? All old Getzens I've ever seen have the normal screw-on ring type.
</QUOTE>
Yeah, not sure when they started and stopped doing it but seems to be horns from 40's - late 50's. Definatly seems to be horns before the shop fire. Someone else may know better.
I have two old Getzens both from approx. late 50's. The 50 Deluxe has the screw, the Super Deluxe has normal ring type except it does not come off - just spins - and it turns counter clockwise to unlock.
Here a couple links to Dude 60's on ebay that have good pictures of it.
Neither of these are my posts.
My 50 Deluxe is not ornate like these Dudes.
The screw is only about 3/16" - 1/2" long and works better if just taken off completely when playing. Otherwise it rattles around, scraps on the outer slide and/or just falls out anyway.
Second link shows another Dude on ebay with the screw missing:
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Wow. That tiny knurled-head screw for use as a slide lock seems clumsy at best, and a spectacularly bad design in any case! :idk:
- Vegastokc
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Jun 15, 2018
[quote="Posaunus"]Wow. That tiny knurled-head screw for use as a slide lock seems clumsy at best, and a spectacularly bad design in any case! :idk:[/quote]
Just one of the many quirky features of those early art deco steam punk Getzens. ;)
Apparently, they must have had a surplus of hex bar laying around they could use for braces, water keys and counter weights. :P
Just one of the many quirky features of those early art deco steam punk Getzens. ;)
Apparently, they must have had a surplus of hex bar laying around they could use for braces, water keys and counter weights. :P
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
[quote="RConrad"]All of my trombones are slightly different. My Bach's slide lock is the oddest since it has to be rotated a full turn from being fully screwed in to work.[/quote]
That usually happens because a lazy tech put new felts in the cork barrels without removing the old felts. I frequently find remnants of 2 or 3 old felts stuck inside the cork barrels on older instruments.
That usually happens because a lazy tech put new felts in the cork barrels without removing the old felts. I frequently find remnants of 2 or 3 old felts stuck inside the cork barrels on older instruments.
- RConrad
- Posts: 106
- Joined: Oct 17, 2018
[quote="brassmedic"]That usually happens because a lazy tech put new felts in the cork barrels without removing the old felts. I frequently find remnants of 2 or 3 old felts stuck inside the cork barrels on older instruments.[/quote]
That's highly likely. I don't remember the last time I actually took that horn to a tech. Always wanted to take it to someone to improve the slide but since it's a student model Bach I'm not sure it's worth the money.
That's highly likely. I don't remember the last time I actually took that horn to a tech. Always wanted to take it to someone to improve the slide but since it's a student model Bach I'm not sure it's worth the money.
- Leanit
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Sep 04, 2018
It's a somewhat popular belief that slide locks are entrance-missers. I know a few guys who keep their slide lock home in a drawer. Of my three regular horns, only one came with a slide lock, and it screwed me up a few times. It's no longer attached to the instrument.
The above doesn't really add to the conversation. I just felt like writing something.
The above doesn't really add to the conversation. I just felt like writing something.
- u_11561man
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Aug 22, 2019
Different strokes for different folks :good: