Your favorite/best improv trombone jazz musicians?

talentedtrombone · by **talentedtrombone** » 2018-07-05 11:10 p.m.

Hey Y'all,

My jazz teacher told me I should have an arsenal of favorite improv jazz musicians so that I could copy their style and actually be good, but I'm too lazy to find them on my own. If you can, can you provide me with some names of improv musicians so that I could develop my arsenal and prepare for a world war of social interaction?

Yes,

talentedtrombone

afugate · by **afugate** » 2018-07-06 8:37 a.m.

We can't tell you what you will like... :idk:

~~[url]~~<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.google.com/search?q=top+jaz ... yer+videos">https://www.google.com/search?q=top+jazz+trombone+player+videos&oq=trombone+player+videos</LINK_TEXT>

It will be far more meaningful to you, if you make time to look and listen.

--Andy in OKC

greenbean · by **greenbean** » 2018-07-06 8:38 p.m.

First, let me say this: lazy and jazz don't really go together.

In any case, there are countless dozens of players that will amaze you. Here are five that I particularly like.

JJ Johnson

Steve Turre

Frank Rosolino

Al Grey

Wayne Wallace

pompatus · by **pompatus** » 2018-07-06 11:55 p.m.

Listen, lots! By all means, take some of the suggestions here as a jumping off point, but it’s up to you to put the work in. Listen to everything you can get your hands on, in this age of YouTube and digital music that should be very easy. It’s surprising how quickly you can lose track of an afternoon following “rabbit holes” of one video after another of great jazz trombonists on YouTube and other video sites.

Once you have a good feel for some artists whose sound you appreciate, pick your favorite tune of theirs and transcribe the improvisations. Once you’ve got that solo transcribed note for note, then transpose it into the other 11 keys. By that time you should have the tune and the solo memorized, and knowing it in any key will make you a stronger player. Then, choose another tune and repeat. You’ll be surprised how some of those licks start to creep into your own improvisations.

My answer to the original question? Urbie Green and George Roberts, for improv and style/sound

AndrewMeronek · by **AndrewMeronek** » 2018-07-07 12:54 a.m.

Some of my favorites, specific to jazz improv:

Jack Teagarden

Carl Fontana

Frank Rosolino

John Allred

Scott Whitfield

John Fedchock

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2018-07-07 1:15 p.m.

Tons of different styles. Harry Waters, Wycliffe Gordon, JJ Johnson, Kai Winding, Teagarden, Urbie Green, Bill Watrous.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2018-07-07 1:30 p.m.

Start with ONE big name you like. It's easy to get overwhelmed and too spread out trying to listen and copy too many different styles.

talentedtrombone · by **talentedtrombone** » 2018-07-07 1:40 p.m.

[quote="hyperbolica"]Tons of different styles. Harry Waters, Wycliffe Gordon, JJ Johnson, Kai Winding, Teagarden, Urbie Green, Bill Watrous.[/quote]

Man, Wycliffe Gordon is great!

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2018-07-07 7:19 p.m.

Yes, but Wycliffe is not necessarily the best choice as a first one to listen and copy. It's a good idea to go back and listen to who HE listened to. And others.

Neo_Bri · by **Neo_Bri** » 2018-07-07 7:26 p.m.

Start with JJ Johnson. Go in either direction (earlier/later) from there.

talentedtrombone · by **talentedtrombone** » 2018-07-07 11:03 p.m.

[quote="Doug Elliott"]Yes, but Wycliffe is not necessarily the best choice as a first one to listen and copy. It's a good idea to go back and listen to who HE listened to. And others.[/quote]
Interesting suggestion :good:

brtnats · by **brtnats** » 2018-07-09 7:24 a.m.

For newly approaching the craft? Andy Martin. It's easy to listen to, easily approachable, and you can watch videos of him playing to help with the transcriptions.

BflatBass · by **BflatBass** » 2018-07-22 12:50 a.m.

JJ Johnson

Scott Whitfield

Carl Fontana

Frank Rosolino

You Tube is your friend if you have a way to use it. Even if its on your phone. It's also a good idea to listen to their best solos over and over. Get in their mind and try to understand what they were trying to accomplish. Transcribed solos are good to look at while your listening as well as just the chord changes when trying to understand the technical aspects of each solo.

Jazz improv has a language and that language is unique for every player. Develop your own language.

RustBeltBass · by **RustBeltBass** » 2018-07-22 9:55 a.m.

All names mentioned before, plus Jim Pugh.

If you are on Facebook, check out the WDR Big Band’s website. Their bass trombonist, Mattis Cederberb is laying down the most insane bass trombone improvisation I ever heard.

Rusty · by **Rusty** » 2018-07-24 5:00 a.m.

Steve Davis

Nils Landgren

Fred Wesley

...are some of my faves

Basbasun · by **Basbasun** » 2018-07-24 5:37 a.m.

Lots of tips you got there. The absolute best is from Doug. Follow that.

BflatBass · by **BflatBass** » 2018-07-29 1:06 a.m.

[quote="RustBeltBass"]All names mentioned before, plus Jim Pugh.

If you are on Facebook, check out the WDR Big Band’s website. Their bass trombonist, Mattis Cederberb is laying down the most insane bass trombone improvisation I ever heard.[/quote]

Mattis is a great talent. Great on tuba, cimbasso and bass trombone. His arrangements/compositions are just fun to listen to.

Mhoutris · by **Mhoutris** » 2018-08-01 10:03 a.m.

Andy Martin and Bob McChesney!

Grah · by **Grah** » 2018-08-02 9:20 p.m.

I guess it depends on the style/s of jazz you follow. However, for 'hot' jazz, in my opinion:

John Allred (1962)

Ray Anderson (1952)

David Baker (1931-2016)

Chris Barber (1930)

Bob Brookmeyer (valve trombone), (1929-2011)

Lawrence Brown (1907–1988)

George Brunies (1902–1974)

George Chisholm (1915–1997)

Jimmy Cleveland (1926-2008)

Cutty Cutshall (1911-1968)

Willie Dennis (1926-1965)

Vic Dickenson (1906–1984)

Tommy Dorsey (1905–1956)

Edwin "Daddy" Edwards (1891-1963)

Bob Envoldson (1920-2005)

Carl Fontana (1928–2003)

Curtis Fuller (1934)

Tyree Glenn (1912-1974)

Brad Gowans (1903-1954)

Bennie Green (1923–1977)

Urbie Green (1928)

Al Grey (1925–2000)

Slide Hampton (1932)

Bill Harris (1916–1973)

Bob Havens (1930)

J. C. Higginbotham (1906–1973)

Pee Wee Hunt (1907–1979)

Jack Jenny (1910-1945)

J. J. Johnson (1924–2001)

Jimmy Knepper (1927–2003)

Don Lusher (1923-2006)

George Masso (1926)

Lou McGarity (1917-1971)

Glenn Miller (1904–1944)

Miff Mole (1898–1961)

Benny Morton (1907-1985)

Turk Murphy (1915-1987)

Tricky Sam Nanton (1904–1946)

Louis Nelson (1902-1990)

Dick Nash (1928)

Kid Ory (1886–1973)

Jim Robinson (1892-1976)

Frank Rosolino (1926-1978)

Jack Teagarden (1905–1964)

Juan Tizol (valve trombone) (1900–1984)

Bill Watrous (1939)

Dicky Wells (1907–1985)

Roy Williams (1937)

Phil Wilson (1937)

Kai Winding (1922–1983)

Britt Woodman (1920-2000)

Trummy Young (1912-1984)

You might think that a few on the list are more 'cool' than 'hot', but rest assured that they can play 'hot' when the circumstances call for it.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2018-08-02 11:16 p.m.

That's quite a list.

You can add 2018 to Bill Watrous now.

Chiptingle · by **Chiptingle** » 2018-08-03 12:13 a.m.

Great list!

A few favs I haven’t seen mentioned yet:

Marshall Gilkes

Luis Bonilla

Doug Beavers

Bill Reichenbach

Robin Eubanks

Steve Turre

John Gove

Curtis Fowlkes

Bruce Fowler

Albert Mangelsdorf

Jiggs Wigham

Nils Landgren

Dennis Rollins

Michael Dease

Michael Davis

Frank Lacy

David Gibson

Francisco Torres

ENJOY THE JOURNEY!!!

[quote="Grah"]I guess it depends on the style/s of jazz you follow. However, for 'hot' jazz, in my opinion:

John Allred (1962)

Ray Anderson (1952)

David Baker (1931-2016)

Chris Barber (1930)

Bob Brookmeyer (valve trombone), (1929-2011)

Lawrence Brown (1907–1988)

George Brunies (1902–1974)

George Chisholm (1915–1997)

Jimmy Cleveland (1926-2008)

Cutty Cutshall (1911-1968)

Willie Dennis (1926-1965)

Vic Dickenson (1906–1984)

Tommy Dorsey (1905–1956)

Edwin "Daddy" Edwards (1891-1963)

Bob Envoldson (1920-2005)

Carl Fontana (1928–2003)

Curtis Fuller (1934)

Tyree Glenn (1912-1974)

Brad Gowans (1903-1954)

Bennie Green (1923–1977)

Urbie Green (1928)

Al Grey (1925–2000)

Slide Hampton (1932)

Bill Harris (1916–1973)

Bob Havens (1930)

J. C. Higginbotham (1906–1973)

Pee Wee Hunt (1907–1979)

Jack Jenny (1910-1945)

J. J. Johnson (1924–2001)

Jimmy Knepper (1927–2003)

Don Lusher (1923-2006)

George Masso (1926)

Lou McGarity (1917-1971)

Glenn Miller (1904–1944)

Miff Mole (1898–1961)

Benny Morton (1907-1985)

Turk Murphy (1915-1987)

Tricky Sam Nanton (1904–1946)

Louis Nelson (1902-1990)

Dick Nash (1928)

Kid Ory (1886–1973)

Jim Robinson (1892-1976)

Frank Rosolino (1926-1978)

Jack Teagarden (1905–1964)

Juan Tizol (valve trombone) (1900–1984)

Bill Watrous (1939)

Dicky Wells (1907–1985)

Roy Williams (1937)

Phil Wilson (1937)

Kai Winding (1922–1983)

Britt Woodman (1920-2000)

Trummy Young (1912-1984)

You might think that a few on the list are more 'cool' than 'hot', but rest assured that they can play 'hot' when the circumstances call for it.[/quote]

Fidbone · by **Fidbone** » 2018-08-03 4:05 a.m.

No love shown yet for.......

Mark Nightingale

Elliot Mason

Nils Wogram

Andy Hunter

Taking Trombone Jazz to another level IMHO

Also check out young lions.......

Robinson Khoury

Alistair White

Klaus Heidenreich

mickael57280 · by **mickael57280** » 2018-08-07 11:38 a.m.

I was in a similar situation excepted I was not lazy but don't know who discovered new trombonists names.

Best thing that help me is to go to YouTube tip the name of a jazz standard and add trombone like ''summertime trombone'' or ''bye bye blackbird trombone'' and then look into the right column, and so on, and so on, you got to discovered lots of new players

Basbasun · by **Basbasun** » 2018-08-07 12:04 p.m.

Oh there are so manny... Start with just one, I think Jack Teagarden is a good one, very musical and not too technical, Listen to lots of tunes, pick one and listen to that tune manny manny times. Start to copy. When you learn one solo you came a long way. Don´t be lazy.

Cmillar · by **Cmillar** » 2018-08-10 12:33 a.m.

Among well-known, living trombone players who always surprise, amaze, and play fresh ideas without ever sounding like they're copying anybody else, I really dig: (in no particular order)

Ed Neumeister

Mark Nightingale

Bruce Fowler

Glenn Ferris

Birch Johnson (seldom heard, sadly)

John Mosca

Ian McDougall

Jim Pugh

Conrad Herwig

...and this is leaving out so, so many other great soloists...many unknown to the public from all over the place!

greenbean · by **greenbean** » 2018-08-10 1:55 a.m.

[quote="Cmillar"]...

...and this is leaving out so, so many other great soloists...many unknown to the public from all over the place![/quote]

Juan Pablo Torres is a good example. Sooooo good and so few people know about him!

lowcatjb · by **lowcatjb** » 2018-08-27 1:28 p.m.

Give everyone a chance, just to hear as much as possible and know what they're about.

Then when it's time to decide who to study or emulate, time to pick a favorite, pick whoever resonates with you, not whoever seems to be the "right" or "popular" choice.

This is a highly subjective thing. For every great player I have heard and loved, I can name 5 people (but I won't <span class="emoji" title=":wink:">😉</span> ) who say that player is overrated or even "garbage." For every player I've ever heard who turned me off, I've met dozens of people who'd say that player was their absolute favorite. It actually says more about the listener than the player. It's more of an indication of what they're into musically (most of the time.)

Sometimes, though, there seem to be "right" and "wrong" answers. People will make you feel like you're supposed to like this player or that one. Don't let them. Try to be honest with yourself, know what you like and why, and stick to that.

BrassedOn · by **BrassedOn** » 2018-09-02 9:03 a.m.

Here’s another way to revisit the idea of entering into jazz influences and improvising. What was your first trombone solo to transcribe?

My first transcription success full transcription and play along was with Curtis Fuller. It is important to have a earlier success with transcribing so you can build that as a habit and technique.

<YOUTUBE id="jGgAjdK1bHA">https://youtu.be/jGgAjdK1bHA</YOUTUBE>

This original post started with straight ahead, bop, and post bop stars, and Frank Rossolino is my number one, But I got my start with earlier Jazz, here’s some first influencing listening:

Jack Teagarden, and great vocalist, too. You might know him from Armstrong Bamds and Basin Street Blues, but Great approach to ballads.

<YOUTUBE id="OqmBgw5t3ZE">https://youtu.be/OqmBgw5t3ZE</YOUTUBE>

Of course, I too I was directed to JJ Johnson. Great influence on my sound Concept. My teacher said “JJ composed/wrote out solos, so you can too as a way to build your understanding and confidence.”Even today, I draw on the idea of a solo having a composed sensibility or structure, using motifs, even when I’m playing more free jazz or in the moment.

Bob Brookmeyer, especially with Gerry Mulligan ( bari sax) in Gerry’s piano-less quartet unless Bob played piano. Some Paris recording are very good. I also play valve bone so hearing this added to my understanding of Juan Tizol who was not a major improviser but had a few notable valve bone feature lines.

<YOUTUBE id="atRw40mK_cs">https://youtu.be/atRw40mK_cs</YOUTUBE>

If we’re making a list of every player, we cad add others. You may not emulate each one, but all have an offering. Trombone listening is a smorgasbord

TRummy Young of the Armstrong and Lunceford bands, so a lot of Dixieland and classic swing. Vocals on hit Margie.. I took from him the little lip trill technique.

<YOUTUBE id="hp_U68jihHQ">https://youtu.be/hp_U68jihHQ</YOUTUBE>

Big Chief Russell Moore, great story, along with Teagarden a noteworthy native North American Jazzer. If you don’t know how to get a plunger stop on trombone see the video and note the essential hole in the plunger.

<YOUTUBE id="_vKCq5SJFxE">https://youtu.be/_vKCq5SJFxE</YOUTUBE>

Julien Priester, who I find kind of inconsistent, but hand some great groups and changed with the times into fusion styled

<YOUTUBE id="uzwY23FAB7c">https://youtu.be/uzwY23FAB7c</YOUTUBE>

Melba Liston, trombone composer arranger. She also had a album with heavy hitters like Urbie and Slide.

<YOUTUBE id="osqQdDlvBMw">https://youtu.be/osqQdDlvBMw</YOUTUBE>

StretchLongarm · by **StretchLongarm** » 2018-09-10 8:34 p.m.

Frank Rehak. Folks forget his art.

dershem · by **dershem** » 2018-09-12 9:16 p.m.

Don't limit yourself by only listening to trombonists. Andy martin used to transcribe and play Clifford Brown solos.

Listen to EVERYONE. Put in the effort.

Charlie Parker

Red Rodney

Sam Noto

Gerry Mulligan

Oscar Peterson

Art Tatum

Miles Davis

John Coltrane

etc.

Arrowhead · by **Arrowhead** » 2019-01-22 8:57 p.m.

Carl Fontana!

Amazing doodle tongue ability, and he could slip into playing traditional jazz without changing his style.

solo at 2:00

<YOUTUBE id="1wFUUioMkH4">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wFUUioMkH4</YOUTUBE>

Doubler · by **Doubler** » 2019-01-23 12:47 a.m.

I enjoy listening to James Morrison.

quiethorn · by **quiethorn** » 2019-01-26 3:37 a.m.

[quote="talentedtrombone"]Hey Y'all,

My jazz teacher told me I should have an arsenal of favorite improv jazz musicians so that I could copy their style and actually be good, but I'm too lazy to find them on my own. If you can, can you provide me with some names of improv musicians so that I could develop my arsenal and prepare for a world war of social interaction?

Yes,

talentedtrombone[/quote]

Why do they have to be trombone players?

"...too lazy to find them on my own..."

Being honest here, it sounds like you might not be motivated to do this if you're too lazy to go to Youtube and search for "jazz trombone" and start watching videos. This might be something to discuss with your teacher.

jacobgarchik · by **jacobgarchik** » 2019-01-29 3:27 p.m.

This is how I learned about the music.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://folkways.si.edu/jazz-the-smiths ... mithsonian">https://folkways.si.edu/jazz-the-smithsonian-anthology/ragtime/music/album/smithsonian</LINK_TEXT>

bonafide · by **bonafide** » 2019-01-31 11:26 a.m.

All of the above are true masters.

After you've checked all of those cats out, I would advise you to listen to other musicians. In fact, why not listen to whatever your ears tell you to check out? Maybe your brain is trying to push you in a certain direction. Maybe your ears will help you figure out your artistic voice, if you let them.

"Jazz trombone" isn't a biome, separated from the rest of jazz. It can be if we want it to be, but the other instruments aren't separated from each other by a specific repertoire. Piano players steal ideas from saxophone players, saxophone players steal from trumpet players, trombone players steal from trumpet players, etc. In classical/20th century European/American art music trombone, there are separate rules for each instrument. In jazz/modern music, there aren't. The same rules apply to every instrument.

You can learn just as much from Dexter Gordon and Sonny Rollins as you can from Frank Rosolino and Al Grey. If you love music, then you should have no problem listening to everything you can get your hands on. All of those ideas can be played on the trombone.

Savio · by **Savio** » 2019-01-31 1:19 p.m.

I like a lot of jazz players but these trombone players always make my attention when the play.

George Roberts (but he might not count as a real jazz musician?)

J.J. Johnson.

Bill Watrous.

Urbie Green.

Leif (thats just my signature, not a jazz player :biggrin: )

Midnightboner · by **Midnightboner** » 2019-02-01 11:37 a.m.

My favorites to listen too are Urbie Green, Frank Rosolino, JJ Johnson, Bill Watrous, Carl Fontana, Slide Hampton, Jimmy Cleveland Curtis Fuller, Jiggs Whigham, Jack Teagarden,Trummy Young, Phil Wilson, Conrad Herwig, Andy Martin, Harry Watters, Scott Whitfield, John Allred, Wycliffe Gordon, Al Grey, Steve Turre, Ray Anderson, Ira Nepus,Jim Pugh,Marshall Gikes. In the UK George Chisholm, Roy Williams, Mark Nightingale, Alastair White, Robbie Harvey, Ian Bateman, Other countries James Morrison, Bart Van Lier, Eijiro Nakagowa, Raul de Souza, Albert Mangelsdorff,Nils Landgren, Massimo Pirone, For someone learning jazz improvisation I was told by the late Pete Strange to buy the Lp Vic Dickinson plays Bessie Smith and try to play along with that to learn the blues and develop your ear

bonafide · by **bonafide** » 2019-02-02 3:12 p.m.

I would also add:

Bennie Green

Garnett Brown

Craig Harris

Clifford Adams

Ku-umba Frank Lacy

Douglas Purviance (bass)

Jason Jackson

Stafford Hunter

Rick Parker

Nick Finzer

Robert Edwards

James Burton III

Jimmy Cleveland (I’m guessing someone already mentioned him)

Josh Roseman

Steve Swell

Art Baron

Issac Smith

Vincent Chandler

Vincent Gardner

Elliot Mason

Andre Hayward

Grachan Moncur III

Mitch Butler

Cornell McGhee

Ron Wilkins

and many more.

Chiptingle · by **Chiptingle** » 2019-02-03 11:58 p.m.

Great list!

[quote="bonafide"]I would also add:

Bennie Green

Garnett Brown

Craig Harris

Clifford Adams

Ku-umba Frank Lacy

Douglas Purviance (bass)

Jason Jackson

Stafford Hunter

Rick Parker

Nick Finzer

Robert Edwards

James Burton III

Jimmy Cleveland (I’m guessing someone already mentioned him)

Josh Roseman

Steve Swell

Art Baron

Issac Smith

Vincent Chandler

Vincent Gardner

Elliot Mason

Andre Hayward

Grachan Moncur III

Mitch Butler

Cornell McGhee

Ron Wilkins

and many more.[/quote]

Cordelld · by **Cordelld** » 2019-02-04 8:01 p.m.

Mike Davis and Bill Reichenbach.

Check out “Bone Town”.

Still one of my favorite recordings.

PaulTdot · by **PaulTdot** » 2019-02-04 8:33 p.m.

A great collection here, in this thread, and it's great to see some of my less-known favourites, like Frank Rehak and Bennie Green. I'll mention a few more trombone players that have been skipped over but have something unusual or special to offer:

Max Seigel (for fluid bebop in the bass trombone register)

Samuel Blaser

Ron Westray

Ake Persson

Chris Crenshaw

Gunhild Carling

Al (Alastair) Kay

Rob McConnell (valve)

jsizer · by **jsizer** » 2019-02-09 9:12 p.m.

Bennie Green, mentioned a few times is a great one to start with transcribing. I did not see Hal Crook on anyone's list, but he has a great command of the instrument and a different vocabulary than most. My all time favorite is Carl Fontana.

PaulTdot · by **PaulTdot** » 2019-02-11 2:24 p.m.

Hal Crook! Definitely should have been on this list.

tdiotdw · by **tdiotdw** » 2019-02-11 2:46 p.m.

Yeah like everyone said you GOTTA listen to JJ Johnson and Curtis Fuller.

Also the original guys like Kid Ory and Vic Dickenson

THEN Slide Hampton and on. Bill, Fontana, and Rosolino are AMAZING, not necessarily in my vein though.

Contemporary guys definitely Elliot Mason, Michael Dease, and COREY WILCOX!

joemende27 · by **joemende27** » 2019-03-04 8:54 p.m.

Besides all the names mentioned, lately I've been digging these 2 monsters.

Vincent Gardner

Tom Garling (from his Maynard Ferguson days)

ArbanRubank · by **ArbanRubank** » 2019-03-05 8:08 a.m.

Probably not technically on the "Improv List", but the more I listen to the Buddy Morrow band, the more I respect what he had achieved in orchestration, arrangement, big band sound and his own playing.

<YOUTUBE id="ITOvs9WX3QU" list="OLAK5uy_noiaYMGeYziZF5b1AYLpE5PP0Y-ZFwAcQ"><LINK_TEXT text="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITOvs9W ... P0Y-ZFwAcQ">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITOvs9WX3QU&list=OLAK5uy_noiaYMGeYziZF5b1AYLpE5PP0Y-ZFwAcQ</LINK_TEXT></YOUTUBE>

Grah · by **Grah** » 2019-03-05 7:16 p.m.

I did mention in my previous post that the style of jazz you wish to play should influence your arsenal. But one aspect of improvisation has not been mentioned and I am interested to hear listmate's opinions? I am referring to the style adopted by different trombone players in the Dixieland Ensemble, which style of improvisation takes up a large part of my playing time.

My observation is that pioneer Kid Ory is perhaps still the biggest influence on Dixieland trombone ensemble playing. The next radical change was Jack Teagarden. But there many others that I like a lot, including a few Brits - Who wouldn't like to play an Dixieland ensemble like Roy Williams?

I am an old feller and it is perhaps too late for me to be influenced a great deal, but I am interested to know the recommendation of list mates to younger people who want to play Dixieland?

Redthunder · by **Redthunder** » 2019-03-06 10:00 a.m.

[quote="Grah"]I did mention in my previous post that the style of jazz you wish to play should influence your arsenal. But one aspect of improvisation has not been mentioned and I am interested to hear listmate's opinions? I am referring to the style adopted by different trombone players in the Dixieland Ensemble, which style of improvisation takes up a large part of my playing time.

My observation is that pioneer Kid Ory is perhaps still the biggest influence on Dixieland trombone ensemble playing. The next radical change was Jack Teagarden. But there many others that I like a lot, including a few Brits - Who wouldn't like to play an Dixieland ensemble like Roy Williams?

I am an old feller and it is perhaps too late for me to be influenced a great deal, but I am interested to know the recommendation of list mates to younger people who want to play Dixieland?[/quote]

My biggest beef with many "Dixieland" (a terribly outdated term, btw) groups that are playing out today is that I feel that many of these players intentionally play in a contrived style - an intentionally corny imitation of a player like Ory (who I'm NOT calling contrived or corny), because it "sounds" old timey. At best it's cute but nothing more, at worst it's an insulting dismissal of what truly makes early jazz so great and revolutionary.

When I listen to Louis Armstrong's band from the 50's and 60's, I don't hear "old timey", I don't hear "corny". I just hear fresh, raw and energetic music played by the innovators themselves. Trummy Young, Teagarden, Tyree Glenn, JC Higgenbotham, never sound old, and they are influenced by Ory, but are not imitators. Even when they're playing old tunes. That's what's missing from many of these circles outside of New Orleans today, IMO, with the exception of many of the phenomenal bands you hear in NYC.

Vegasbound · by **Vegasbound** » 2019-07-09 3:34 p.m.

Miff Mole - forgotten about now but in the 20's he was The player people listened too and copied.

Jack Teagarden his arrival in NY in 1928 moved jazz into a more blues way of playing and away from Miff

Jack Jenny. Outstanding jazz player of the bigband era

Then you are into. Urbie, Kai, JJ , Bill Watrous, Carl, Frank, Tricky Sam, and many more

jcdoubleu77 · by **jcdoubleu77** » 2019-09-12 12:18 p.m.

Happened on this thread and although I saw other instrumentalists mentioned, I didn't see any vocalists.

My advice: play along with Sinatra records. Try to match his inflection, phrasing, etc. It can't be beat. Plus, you learn the words to all those standards. This helps interpretation and memory both. You gotta know tunes to be a jazz player. Lots of them. Knowing the words makes it that much easier to memorize the tunes.

Obviously, other singers are great too. But I like the Doug Elliott's advice, stretched to a couple different instruments. My picks would be JJ for trombone, Coleman Hawkins or Lester Young for tenor, Miles for trumpet, and Sinatra for vocals. Stick with those four in the practice room for a year or so to play along with, transcribe, analyze, transpose in all 12 keys, while at the same time, outside the practice room, listen to anything/everything else you can get your hands on including all those listed above with the addition of vocalists too. After all that studying and listening, you'll know who to study next and it will be easier to take what you've learned from the intense study of a few people and adapt it to other styles.

Also, when you're studying a particular performance of a tune, try transcribing and playing the bass lines (8va usually). Gives you new perspective on the changes, harmony, leading tones, etc. Playing with Sinatra gets the the melody and lyrics in your ears, bass transcriptions give you the harmony. Also gets you used to listening down there and thinking of your solos in contrapuntal terms, as a conversation with the whole group and not just a chance to blow your own ego for a few bars. The piano-less Mulligan groups mentioned about are fantastic to hear this conversation in action.

Savio · by **Savio** » 2019-09-12 1:05 p.m.

I listen to J.J. Johnson. When he improvise its like its not an improvising but a composition that is well planned and though of.

Leif

RixterTrixter · by **RixterTrixter** » 2024-08-27 6:08 p.m.

[quote="StretchLongarm"]Frank Rehak. Folks forget his art.[/quote]

Yes, Frank Rehak, and Bruce Fowler. I haven't heard many folks with the range that Bruce had.

iranzi · 2024-10-27 4:23 p.m.

My top 10 trombones in Jazz:

KID ORY

J.C. HIGGINBOTHAM

BENNY MORTON

LAWRENCE BROWN

VIC DICKENSON

TYREE GLENN

BILL HARRIS

MELBA LISTON

JIMMY CLEVELAND

SHIGEHARU MUKAI

honourable mentions:

IKE RODGERS

JIMMY HARRISON

DICKY WELLS

TOMMY DORSEY

WYCLIFFE GORDON

• ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • ° • °

Ike Rodgers - Screenin' The Blues

<YOUTUBE id="gShLOTlsHs4">https://youtu.be/gShLOTlsHs4</YOUTUBE>

Benny Morton Trombone Choir - Once In A While (incl. Vic Dickenson, Bill Harris, Claude Jones), NY 1944

<YOUTUBE id="wGHU0Vnz9D4">https://youtu.be/wGHU0Vnz9D4</YOUTUBE>

Lester Young And His Band - Jumpin' at Mesners' (Vic Dickenson on trombone), LA 1945

<YOUTUBE id="4FGb88B--0g">https://youtu.be/4FGb88B--0g</YOUTUBE>

Tyree Glenn - Stairway To The Stars (1958)

<YOUTUBE id="8VtEOIPKt08">https://youtu.be/8VtEOIPKt08</YOUTUBE>

Shigeharu Mukai - Nimuoro Neina (1979)

<YOUTUBE id="F_NRPmSxxcE">https://youtu.be/F_NRPmSxxcE</YOUTUBE>

(that was a good exercise in narrowing it all down for me!)

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2024-10-27 6:26 p.m.

I’m happy to see at least one mention of Ed Neumeister.

I recently developed a new appreciation for Slide Hampton.

iranzi · 2024-10-28 11:48 p.m.

[quote="BrassedOn"]Melba Liston, trombone composer arranger. She also had a album with heavy hitters like Urbie and Slide.

<YOUTUBE id="osqQdDlvBMw">https://youtu.be/osqQdDlvBMw</YOUTUBE>[/quote]

--------------------------------

There are 2 trombonists on that track, her and Frank Rehak.

Her main albums had nothing but trombone heavy hitters: "Melba Liston And Her Bones", where 'Insomnia' comes from, also has Bennie Green, Al Grey, Benny Powell, Jimmy Cleveland AND Slide Hampton!

And "The Trombones Inc." came out under Bob Brookmeyer, Jimmy Cleveland and Frank Rosolino's names and also has, in addition to Melba Liston — Bennie Green, Benny Powell, Frank Rehak, Milt Bernhart, and 18 more trombonists i've never heard of.

I'm not aware of any Melba Liston / Urbie Green recordings. Please let us know if you know any

...

iranzi · 2024-10-29 12:29 a.m.

[quote="bonafide"][...] I would advise you to listen to other musicians. [...][/quote]

Outside of trombone I've been sticking mainly with singers like Aretha Franklin, Billie Holiday, Maria Callas, other great singers from jazz, r'n'b, rap and all the way to latest trap. Some of their recordings may also have wonderful trombone in them:

Aretha Franklin with Tyree Glenn:

<YOUTUBE id="gkGMNxjG16Y">https://youtu.be/gkGMNxjG16Y</YOUTUBE>

Billie Holiday with Jack Teagarden:

<YOUTUBE id="lV_SM90eyLQ">https://youtu.be/lV_SM90eyLQ</YOUTUBE>

Billie Holiday with Benny Morton:

<YOUTUBE id="QtgGxlnQhvQ">https://youtu.be/QtgGxlnQhvQ</YOUTUBE>

or Kojey Radical, why not? with great Shabaka Hutchings here- coincidentally, he's got quite a trombonistic style on tenor saxophone)

Shabaka Hutchings & Kojey Radical - No Gangster

<YOUTUBE id="Ub37W4iYu8M">https://youtu.be/Ub37W4iYu8M</YOUTUBE>

This would be jazz too (in some parallel reality). i mean the rap thing...

~~[size=85]~~If jazz hasn't been elevated to high-brow status, turned into a collection of holy relics (possibly, sadly, for good reasons too…)

Swindle & Kojey Radical - Coming Home ~~[size=85]~~(whole playlist there now)

<YOUTUBE list="PL-AWUMUQKael8fhRens3y0VNKajV-txQY"><LINK_TEXT text="https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-AW ... _aRFQesaMG">https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-AWUMUQKael8fhRens3y0VNKajV-txQY&si=y_5dsz_aRFQesaMG</LINK_TEXT></YOUTUBE>

***

now, thinking about it — dancers are also great, so amazing to learn from. Everything's the same just no sound. But all the most important elements are there: timing, phrasing, rhythm, etc, etc

iranzi · 2024-10-31 1:47 p.m.

more singers (and trombones). one song seven versions

'All Of Me' 1932-1958

please let me know if something's not working.possible youtub issues

<ATTACHMENT filename="tracklist.png" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~tracklist.png</ATTACHMENT>
<YOUTUBE id="vLAGTgZ9SUc">https://youtu.be/vLAGTgZ9SUc</YOUTUBE>

Savio · by **Savio** » 2024-10-31 7:00 p.m.

There is so many famous but also not famous I adore. I'm little jealous on all of you who can improvise. I have been a teacher for over 35 year's and I'm surprised how kids can improvise without fear. So they are one of my favourite. I always tell the beginners to fiddle a little around their instrument. Even as warm up.

The famous;

Bill Watrous, number one because I heard him alive. Long time ago. Improvising in a dry room rather early in the morning. With a bunch of trombonists listening. It was just fantastic and can still hear that sound in my ears. I understand why he sound glorious on ballads too. He had a big sound on a small trombone.

J.J. Johnson, because everything he improvised seems logical. Nearly as it was a symphony already composed. Amazing.....it's kind of never a wrong note in his improvising. I think Urbie Green was inspired by him?

And so many more of course; Slide Hampton, Urbie Green, Curtis Fuller.....

The Unknown;

So many around us. So many and it's growing each day.

The local bigband have a trombone player that begin improvising in grown up age. And he is just growing. It's just great to follow the improvements! Improvements among younger players is no news, but among older players it's good to follow. :good:

The worst;

I tried improvising in my young day's. In the rehearsal everyone liked it, the leader liked it. In the jazz club no one said a word. And that's the worst sign you can ever get. :biggrin: But I still do improvising when I teach. I feel a little familiar with the young players which has no fear or doubt. :good:

Leif

VJOFan · by **VJOFan** » 2024-11-01 9:26 a.m.

It is a great impulse to want to know about quality listening. I asked my early teachers for lists of their recommendations and that list became a list of my favourite musicians, orchestras and composers for a large part of life.

I wonder if with today's ease of access if it will be harder to go into depth with any listening. My first record collection was only about 12 LP sets that included two albums featuring JJ and Kai, the Bill Waterous big band, a Miles Davis album with JJ, a Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Orchestra album, the London Symphony playing John Williams, Chicago playing Mahler 5, a Phillip Jones Brass Ensemble recording, a couple Canadian Brass albums and a Blood Sweat and Tears greatest hits. I listened to those for about 3 years and was able to sing along to almost every note by the end.

Really internalizing listening is probably pretty important. I think it helps build a store house of musical vocabulary.

It's easy to see from the list above that I wouldn't be able to play traditional jazz. And I wasn't for years until I plugged that listening hole.

iranzi · 2024-11-01 11:22 a.m.

[quote="Savio"][...] I always tell the beginners to fiddle a little around their instrument. Even as warm up. [...][/quote]
(sorry i cut up your post like this, i hope the meaning is not altered by it)

but this is just so so great!!!

i think when jazz was evolving & reinventing itself, that was how it proceeded: through fiddling (or what looked like fiddling) with the instruments. It was playful is what i'm saying, and that propelled it forward, for a while... (not touching on social reasons here)

[quote="Savio"]J.J. Johnson, because everything he improvised seems logical. Nearly as it was a symphony already composed. Amazing.....it's kind of never a wrong note in his improvising. [...][/quote]
J.J. is unhuman or superhuman - one of the small number of players of unimaginable genius.

but also: not every solo is an improvisation. solo is an element of musical form, improvisation is technique of making it up as you go along... I'm sure J.J. Johnson was amazing at both.

[quote="Savio"]The Unknown;

So many around us. So many and it's growing each day.

The local bigband have a trombone player that begin improvising in grown up age. And he is just growing. It's just great to follow the improvements! Improvements among younger players is no news, but among older players it's good to follow. :good:[/quote]
! ! ! ! !! !!!!!!!

[quote="Savio"]The worst;

I tried improvising in my young day's. In the rehearsal everyone liked it, the leader liked it. In the jazz club no one said a word. And that's the worst sign you can ever get. [...][/quote]
I wouldn't pay them any mind whatsoever. I only ever listen to my loved ones. (they not necessarily saying the truth, but it's them i care about and it's for them i do what i do)

iranzi · 2024-11-03 8:58 a.m.

Brazilian trombonist Raul de Souza, definitely part of the canon.

Played mostly valve trombone in the early days (the ’60s), then also the slide trombone. I think i can just about tell them apart. Amazing sound, amazing player.

«Sweet Lucy» 1977

<YOUTUBE id="rNRq2QKPfIE">https://youtu.be/rNRq2QKPfIE</YOUTUBE>

***

~~[size=85]~~There’s definitely something very peculiar about the trombone. I’ve gone through several phases throughout my life, attempting to learn drumming, trumpet, electronic instruments, none of that stuck. Trombone is different, don’t know what it is. It’s definitely the instrument itself, & also the diversity of musics with trombone in it: it doesn’t stop throwing up* absolutely stunning surprises.

Trombone universe is unstoppable, it just keeps expanding.

______

*~~[size=85]~~pardon?

• • •

mid 70s to mid 80s Shigeharu Mukai was clearly under de Souza’s spell, but was still doing it in his own inimitable way. (the japanese were amazing at that in the 2d half of the 20th century, maybe still are)

iranzi · 2024-11-03 2:40 p.m.

Duke Ellington, one of those formidable, larger than life figures of the 20th century (also Albert Hitchcock comes to mind for some reason). I bet when he walked into a room it instantly became a «temporary autonomous zone» where earthbound rules and regulations no longer applied.

Here’s a little playlist with some 1966 orchestra performances & great trombones of Buster Cooper, Lawrence Brown, and Chuck Connors on bass:

<YOUTUBE id="u1rPePw7z2E">https://youtu.be/u1rPePw7z2E</YOUTUBE>

1. The Twitch

2. Solitude

3. The Mooche

4. Caravan

5. Do Nothin' Till You Hear From Me

L to R: Lawrence Brown, Chuck Connors, Buster Cooper, mid to late 1960s (amazing colour photos from Buster Cooper Memorial Page)

Adjusted here to make it look closer to realistic colour:
<ATTACHMENT filename="Lawrence Brown, Chuck Connors, Buster Cooper, mid-60s.jpg" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~Lawrence Brown, Chuck Connors, Buster Cooper, mid-60s.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

iranzi · by **iranzi** » 2024-11-03 3:47 p.m.

Ok, this is an absolutely astonishing sound!

Could be the saxophone sound embedded in my brain but still, its undeniably unique (to valve trombones and it's relatives, i reckon). I've got the word «boxy» in my head for such type of sound, probably meaningless for most people. As if coming from inside a big cardboard box (don't know where i got this from). Sounds to me very broad (opposite of focused/compressed), with a lot of space within...

This is how i gonna sound when i grow up!

Raul de Souza / Raulzinho:

<YOUTUBE id="qY9uH-XhCNQ">https://youtu.be/qY9uH-XhCNQ</YOUTUBE>

<YOUTUBE id="MVIxy64VAG0">https://youtu.be/MVIxy64VAG0</YOUTUBE>

dukesboneman · by **dukesboneman** » 2024-11-03 5:08 p.m.

Some that got me started.

Wayne Henderson(the Crusaders')

Fred Wesley

Andy Hunter (WDR Big Band)

Robin Eubanks

Clifton Anderson

Shannon Barnett (Formerly WDR Big Band)

Jimmy Knepper

Craig Harris

David Gibson

Julian Priester

Steve Davis

Ian McDougall

Reggie Watkins

Dave Bargeron

Going Back to where it all started - Kid Ory

iranzi · 2024-11-04 1:23 a.m.

Tyree Glenn is my J.J. - the style of either of them is complete, can’t add or subtract anything, it is totally itself. They also have a certain self-effacing virility in common but i especially like how fragile Glenn’s stuff is, add or subtract a tiniest bit and the world he had built vanishes.

’I Surrender Dear’ (arranged by Sy Oliver)

’I’ve Grown Accustomed to Her Face’ (arranged by Don Redman) ~~[size=85]~~starts at 3:50

<YOUTUBE id="Lb7ii9LNxqY">https://youtu.be/Lb7ii9LNxqY</YOUTUBE>

iranzi · by **iranzi** » 2024-11-05 2:43 p.m.

[quote="iranzi"]<QUOTE author="BrassedOn" post_id="66768" time="1535893386" user_id="3665">
Melba Liston, trombone composer arranger. She also had a album with heavy hitters like Urbie and Slide.

[...][/quote]
--------------------------------

[...]

I'm not aware of any Melba Liston / Urbie Green recordings. Please let us know if you know any

...
</QUOTE>

Found it! Neither of them are listed as featured soloists, but definitely together there:

"The Birth Of The Band" recorded May-June 1959

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.discogs.com/release/3342478 ... -Of-A-Band">https://www.discogs.com/release/3342478-Quincy-Jones-The-Birth-Of-A-Band</LINK_TEXT>
<ATTACHMENT filename="QJB.jpg" index="1">~~[attachment=1]~~QJB.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

RIP Quincy Jones...

some more Melba Liston with Quincy Jones: <LINK_TEXT text="viewtopic.php?p=257764#p257764">https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?p=257764#p257764</LINK_TEXT>
<ATTACHMENT filename="ML QJ.png" index="0">~~[attachment=0]~~ML QJ.png</ATTACHMENT>

Cmillar · by **Cmillar** » 2024-11-14 8:11 a.m.

Ian McDougall (ex-Boss Brass lead trombone, Toronto studios 70's-80's, composer, arranger)

This is Ian in the '70's while he was transitioning from Vancouver to Toronto, when he would have been about 38 years old.

This is an original tune of his, really interesting throughout. His solo starts at 2:46.

But listen to the tune to get into the spirit of his solo. Totally Ian... very 'trombonistic', 'Urbie-like'....builds it like a composer.

Ian McDougall, one of the all time greats.

<YOUTUBE id="xgLtdraA_Tg">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgLtdraA_Tg</YOUTUBE>

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