Chris Stearn (AKA Blast) OK?

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2020-03-27 11:03 p.m.

Hey gang! Haven't seen a post from Blast since June! Anyone know if he's doing OK, or if he has abandoned TC like so many other amazing pros abandoned TTF (probably for legitimate reasons!)? Not trying to make a stink about that if it's the case -- I got rid of FB for good reason.

Just wanted to put up a shout out that I miss his posts, and hope he's OK!

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2020-03-27 11:46 p.m.

[quote="harrisonreed"]I miss his posts, and hope he's OK![/quote]

Ditto

Bach5G · 2020-03-28 12:11 a.m.

AKA Fossil. He was active until last fall.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2020-03-28 1:26 a.m.

Apparently Chris logged in today. Hope he checks in here and sets everybody straight.

The Blast account got corrupted and he re-registered as Fossil.

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2020-03-28 1:45 a.m.

He pretty much stopped posting after this thread:

https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11716

His parting words were:
[quote="FOSSIL"]I surrender. Out of here.

Chris[/quote]

imsevimse · by **imsevimse** » 2020-03-28 4:22 a.m.

Yes, I think he has had enough of this forum.The same with Savio. The old forum had a few people who could set people straight sometimes when it was needed. Those people could be harsh but also knew what they were talking about by reputation and that prevented the problems we now see here in threads where a blind leads a blind I'm sure that's why they left.

/Tom

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2020-03-28 4:45 a.m.

That thread was the one where Lief stopped posting as well. I had forgotten that Blast became FOSSIL for a short while.

Ah well. Maybe YouTube is the place to post ideas about the trombone, with video and good audio to back yourself up.

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2020-03-28 5:29 a.m.

Never thought I'd be a thread.

Thank you all for your concern. I'm fine and getting through these troubled times better than many in rural isolation. I have sons in Italy and the US so have first hand access to conditions on the ground. Their situations worry me. All our situations worry me and yet the sun still shines and the birds still sing and the planet reminds us of how fragile life is and how little real control humans have. It's a lesson.

I check in most days as I cannot resist reading the banter. You guys do fine without me.

I got sick of arguing. Wasn't doing me any good,, or tthe forum. I PM people if I think I can help and keep in touch with a few folk who ended up feeling like me, and those I hold in high regard.

I read posts and ask myself if contributing would really make a difference and if I am honest, mostly it wouldn't.

Please don't watch that youtube link... I wasn't well at the time and it should have been much better...not an excuse, just a statement of fact.

Keep safe, keep practising, as the day will come when we can once again make music together.

Chris

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2020-03-28 8:09 a.m.

Sounded great to me. Glad you are doing well, and stay safe!

SwissTbone · by **SwissTbone** » 2020-03-28 8:17 a.m.

Happy to hear you are ok!

Sad you think your contributions don't make a difference. They clearly made one for me. I learnt a lot from you even without knowing you.

Geordie · by **Geordie** » 2020-03-28 8:39 a.m.

Chris I miss your practical down to earth insight and your comments made a difference to me although we have never met. Thank you.

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2020-03-28 10:49 a.m.

I mostly agreed with Stearn. I like older equipment and more moderate sizes for a great classic sound.

We have also scared away retired pro 2bobone. I personally loved his stories about pro orchestral situations and equipment.

Disagreements are natural, but there is a point where name calling and trying to belittle others is really bad for the group. Losing the experience and maturity among us hasn't made the forum a better place.

I just ask you all to respect differences, respect experience, and respect maturity.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2020-03-28 1:24 p.m.

[quote="hyperbolica"]Disagreements are natural, but there is a point where name calling and trying to belittle others is really bad for the group. Losing the experience and maturity among us hasn't made the forum a better place.

I just ask you all to respect differences, respect experience, and respect maturity.[/quote]

:good:

I re-read the thread below, and now recall why Chris surrendered. Parts of it read to me like sports talk radio sounds - a bunch of self-proclaimed experts talking past each other, dropping gratuitous insults along the way.

[quote="JohnL"]by JohnL » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:45 pm

He pretty much stopped posting after this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=11716

His parting words were:

FOSSIL wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:52 pm

I surrender. Out of here.

Chris[/quote]

Chris, I invariably found your posts knowledgeable and thoughtful. If you (or Leif, 2bobone, or anyone else who has gone silent) wants to contribute to our strange little forum, I'd welcome you back.

Please let's all respectfully consider the opinions expressed here, and think carefully about others before we hit "Submit."

sf105 · by **sf105** » 2020-03-28 2:41 p.m.

I missed this incident. Sorry, but sympathetic, to hear that you bailed out.

Bonearzt · by **Bonearzt** » 2020-03-28 4:14 p.m.

Hi Chris, glad you're well!!! I too, for one, miss your wisdom!!!

Eric

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2020-03-28 4:31 p.m.

I recall Blast being supportive of some writing I did about a week at jazz camp. That seems like a long time ago now.

Neo_Bri · by **Neo_Bri** » 2020-03-29 5:12 p.m.

[quote="Bonearzt"]Hi Chris, glad you're well!!! I too, for one, miss your wisdom!!!

Eric[/quote]

I do too. I really miss Savio (Leif) a lot, too.

Here's a neat recording I found of him and I playing "Danny Boy." I just happened to find it at a serendipitous time. Download it here and admire his melodic sound.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhV82aTgKho-g789W6X ... w?e=AElFmd">https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhV82aTgKho-g789W6XGvfFCIQ42Cw?e=AElFmd</LINK_TEXT>

afugate · by **afugate** » 2020-03-30 9:01 a.m.

[quote="Neo Bri"]I do too. I really miss Savio (Leif) a lot, too.

Here's a neat recording I found of him and I playing "Danny Boy." I just happened to find it at a serendipitous time. Download it here and admire his melodic sound.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhV82aTgKho-g789W6X ... w?e=AElFmd">https://1drv.ms/u/s!AhV82aTgKho-g789W6XGvfFCIQ42Cw?e=AElFmd</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]

Nice! :good: Love the outro. Yikes, that's low!! :lol:

--Andy in OKC

MStarke · by **MStarke** » 2020-03-30 10:54 a.m.

I am not a frequent contributor to the forum, but am reading quite a lot.

I must say that this is partly for the same reason that seem to have made Chris Stearn leave the forum for a while.

There were simply some discussions driven in a relatively unfriendly, not reflected and narrow-minded manner that actually didn't bring any additional insights and were partly even insulting to individuals.

At least I received it that way.

We always must keep in mind that there are people with different levels of trombone experience, different levels of English language, different environments that you live and play trombone in and - even among high-level professionals - simply different opinions and different approaches towards the trombone.

There is no best way, just alternative ways.

I still consider this a great resource, but it would be good if all - not only moderators - would try to keep an eye on this.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2020-03-30 5:43 p.m.

[quote="GermanTrombone"]I still consider this a great resource, but it would be good if all - not only moderators - would try to keep an eye on this.[/quote]

:good:

paulyg · by **paulyg** » 2020-03-30 6:31 p.m.

With a couple notable exceptions (none of which are relevant to this thread), the etiquette and courtesy displayed on trombonechat is a beacon of light in a dark, dark, internet.

There's a saying: "if you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen." Trombonechat is not an oven, not a kitchen, not even a small restaurant- our ecosystem is the equivalent of a fancy afternoon tearoom. Everyone drinks with pinkies raised.

We overcome language barriers, different opinions, different circumstances, and a total lack of inflection/nonverbal cues to preserve an admirable civility on this forum.

That being said, due to the nature of online discourse, there are bound to be misunderstandings. This is on TOP of the *gasp* DIFFERENCES OF OPINION that may exist among the hundreds/thousands of members of this community.

Everyone has a right to their feelings, and may certainly avail themselves of the fire exits if things get too hot.

BUT...

Think of what a great resource this is. There is value in giving others the benefit of the doubt and continuing to codify the discussions that, until this marvelous forum, were the purview of after-rehearsal hangs. I know I still visit the original "Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1-1/2G thread" every so often. It would be a shame to call it quits over some slight here. Not everyone's perfect, and for some people, that means a personal slight may make it into the discussion. We can each choose, when confronted with that, to take it personally... or not. Sometimes a break might be in order. But, I hope you come back. I miss you!

Now let's all go have a beer.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2020-03-30 6:44 p.m.

[quote="paulyg"]...

Now let's all go have a beer.[/quote]

We have virtual beers in The Bunker. No age restrictions either. :cool:

brassmedic · 2020-03-30 6:48 p.m.

These meta-discussions are always entertaining. I remember that thread, but I didn't realize it had taken a left turn like that. I went back and read it again. I guess I don't see it as some of you apparently do. I got the vibe that it started out as an innocent discussion about equipment that was actually pretty interesting, and then a couple people came in and essentially said, "It doesn't matter what equipment you play so go practice", and I have to say I actually agree with Aidan that those sorts of comments aren't particularly helpful. Is he the one you are demonizing here, or are you talking about the posts that were deleted? At any rate, I would say if you don't want to discuss equipment, then don't post in a thread that is specifically about equipment.

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2020-03-30 8:16 p.m.

[quote="BGuttman"]We have virtual beers in The Bunker. No age restrictions either. :cool:[/quote]

And these virtual beers are on the house! :good:

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2020-03-31 4:45 a.m.

[quote="brassmedic"]These meta-discussions are always entertaining. I remember that thread, but I didn't realize it had taken a left turn like that. I went back and read it again. I guess I don't see it as some of you apparently do. I got the vibe that it started out as an innocent discussion about equipment that was actually pretty interesting, and then a couple people came in and essentially said, "It doesn't matter what equipment you play so go practice", and I have to say I actually agree with Aidan that those sorts of comments aren't particularly helpful. Is he the one you are demonizing here, or are you talking about the posts that were deleted? At any rate, I would say if you don't want to discuss equipment, then don't post in a thread that is specifically about equipment.[/quote]

I quit because I had better things to do with my time than argue and not the time or inclination to post at the length that would have rendered my comments impervious to misinterpretation.... so I quit.

Equipment is crucial...you can't play trombone without a trombone... but, as I recently posted elsewhere, you should put maximum effort into securing fine equipment, then get on with learning how to play it.

Far too many people are constantly looking for equipment solutions when the way forward is to develop the soft machine.

I must have gotten the message across to my students as when I ask if they want to think about tweaking equipment they refuse.... but all of them had the equipment they use very carefully chosen, by themselves under my supervision... they know it's good.

It's always tempting to try stuff, sure... I was tempted to buy one of your 32H pipes for a 6H that came with a non standard pipe, but I decided to simply use a standard 6H slide I have, that works fine, so why fret ?

I do modify and rebuild trombones, but that is a hobby, not a quest.

Chris

imsevimse · by **imsevimse** » 2020-03-31 6:53 a.m.

It has always been more who read than write and the people who write tend to be the same people. I have reduced my time on the forum and it has to do with the change of attitude. I don't know exactly what has made the forum change, but I have the feeling the point was 'to share" at the old forum. The point at this forum has become more about to "win a discussion" and that is not what I'm interested in. I have thought of this for a while."To share" is to give away thoughts. To be able to share needs a healthy climate where people dare to share without being hit in the head. There also need to be a good mix of professionals and non professionals at the page to make it interesting an healthy. Words of pros will allways be more valuable because of their documented experience. A problem now here is; How do we know who is who? What can we trust and what can we not trust? I guess in the era of fake news and relative facts this has infected the discussions about trombone too. The old page at it's best had a good mix of professionals and non professionals who could bring a discussion to a higher level. Students and amateurs also are very important because they start threads and bring subjects to a point where more experienced and reputed players chimed in to give their thoughts. When pros started to discuss with eachother it become real interesting. Miss you, Chris!

/Tom

brassmedic · by **brassmedic** » 2020-03-31 4:26 p.m.

[quote="FOSSIL"]

I quit because I had better things to do with my time than argue and not the time or inclination to post at the length that would have rendered my comments impervious to misinterpretation.... so I quit.

Equipment is crucial...you can't play trombone without a trombone... but, as I recently posted elsewhere, you should put maximum effort into securing fine equipment, then get on with learning how to play it.

Far too many people are constantly looking for equipment solutions when the way forward is to develop the soft machine.

I must have gotten the message across to my students as when I ask if they want to think about tweaking equipment they refuse.... but all of them had the equipment they use very carefully chosen, by themselves under my supervision... they know it's good.

It's always tempting to try stuff, sure... I was tempted to buy one of your 32H pipes for a 6H that came with a non standard pipe, but I decided to simply use a standard 6H slide I have, that works fine, so why fret ?

I do modify and rebuild trombones, but that is a hobby, not a quest.

Chris[/quote]
I agree. I just don't think that particular thread was an example of that. The question put was simply, "It would be interesting to know how his equipment evolved over his career." He didn't say, "I want to sound exactly like George Roberts by playing the exact same equipment that he played." Not everything has to be a teaching moment. Sometimes enthusiasts just want to share trivia. (Not that I think George Roberts' choice of horns was trivial, but that knowing this isn't essential for us to be good trombone players.) It is not essential, but it is interesting. People are interested in that stuff, just as people here have expressed interest in your equipment, which I think you have shared on occasion, and it is appreciated.

I'm not pointing the finger just at you; there seemed to be several people who missed the spirit of the discussion there. I too am often frustrated by the discussion of equipment as some sort of panacea. Like young players who want to "trade up" their Bach 42B for a Chinese-made horn, because someone told them the valve is no good. The stock 42B has been played by countless professionals for what, 70-80 years? And now all of a sudden people think it's a "step-up" horn? Sometimes I want to scream at these people. You don't need the flavor of the month just because it's the flavor of the month. I just don't think the George Roberts thread was an example of that. And when everybody here started dog-piling on a couple folks in the thread who basically said that, I felt like I needed to say something.

I'm just saying to everyone that maybe we need to pick our battles a bit more carefully. As Tom said, it's not about "winning" the discussion.

norbie2018 · by **norbie2018** » 2020-03-31 5:32 p.m.

[quote="imsevimse"]I don't know exactly what has made the forum change, but I have the feeling the point was 'to share" at the old forum. The point at this forum has become more about to "win a discussion" and that is not what I'm interested in. /Tom[/quote]

With respect, I think you are forgetting the amount of arguing that went on at the old forum; there was plenty of it! Not in every thread, but plenty of them had people of differing opinions trying to make there point and perhaps win the discussion. Do you forget the posts by Sabutin? I enjoyed most of what he posted but those could be intense discussions.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2020-03-31 6:47 p.m.

One of the problems we run into is that there are generally two classes of readers.

One class is highly sophisticated players (both professional and amateur) who can notice subtle differences and will argue over their relative benefits. Sort of like the argument of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

The other is a bunch of learners who wouldn't be able to notice the difference between playing a Jin Bao or a Shires. Often these are kids who really want to become proficient by purchase rather than work. They read the comments of Group One and think that simply getting a frammis because [insert trombone god here] said it helps clean up his upper register. In reality the improvement is so small that it fades against the lack of sophistication. That's why you will often see me stating that the change is small or subtle. If you sound like a wounded moose before that change you will probably still sound like a wounded moose after it.

afugate · by **afugate** » 2020-04-01 8:54 a.m.

[quote="BGuttman"]If you sound like a wounded moose before that change you will probably still sound like a wounded moose after it.[/quote]

I'm pretty sure a wounded moose would be offended by the sounds I sometimes make... :weep: :lol:

Regarding the overall thread... there's debate, and there's discussion.

I think of discussion as people sharing differing viewpoints to lend their own personal wisdom and experiences, generally in a "try everything, and keep what works" approach (to paraphrase Sabutin).

Debate is inwardly focused. It's all about winning and proving the supremacy of one's own approach. That stuff is just tiresome.

Rarely do I chime in on threads where true experience and skill is helpful, because I am well aware of my own limitations. I'm here to learn from others. I'm grateful for those like Blast/Fossil/Chris, Doug, Bassbun, and many others, who choose to spend their precious time helping people like me.

Welcome back, Chris!

--Andy in OKC

CharlieB · by **CharlieB** » 2020-04-01 12:06 p.m.

I miss the old days of the TTF, where the focus was trombonists helping each other by sharing information and experiences. Toward the end of TTF that focus was becoming redirected by those who preferred to argue and debate over irrelevant minutia. Somehow, at the changeover to TromboneChat, we have even further lost direction. I really appreciate the input of those remaining who strive to share useful information, but I find myself increasingly less interested in logging on. I don't need any more conflicts, debates and arguments. I have a wife and in-laws for that.

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2020-04-01 12:26 p.m.

[quote="CharlieB"]I miss the old days of the TTF, where the focus was trombonists helping each other by sharing information and experiences. Toward the end of TTF that focus was becoming redirected by those who preferred to argue and debate over irrelevant minutia. Somehow, at the changeover to TromboneChat, we have even further lost direction. I really appreciate the input of those remaining who strive to share useful information, but I find myself increasingly less interested in logging on. I don't need any more conflicts, debates and arguments. I have a wife and in-laws for that.[/quote]
:idea:

Bach5G · by **Bach5G** » 2020-04-01 1:10 p.m.

I recall some pretty heated discussions/flaming on the TTF and before that on the OTJ. There’s FB for that now.

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2020-04-01 1:22 p.m.

Yes there some VERY heated debates on TTF that are easily forgotten.. As a moderator and then chief moderator, I had to deal with a lot of that. This forum is much smaller and suffers because of that. If it seems like the same people are always posting, it's because they are. That is a major reason for argument.... tension from previous threads gets carried over and tempers boil over.

These kinds of forums are being killed by Facebook...

Progress <EMOJI seq="1f644" tseq="1f644">🙄</EMOJI>

Neo_Bri · by **Neo_Bri** » 2020-04-01 2:22 p.m.

[quote="Bach5G"]I recall some pretty heated discussions/flaming on the TTF and before that on the OTJ. There’s FB for that now.[/quote]

The trick is to have more people posting who have good attitudes, rather than the "will to dominate" as I sometimes call it. Debates are fine, arguments are fine, but sometimes ego goes too far. Clearer heads need to participate and prevail. Easy to say, but hard to implement.

If it's possible to stay positive, then stay positive. Everyone will benefit. And if there are habitual trolls that tend to "stir the pot" perhaps they'll eventually learn to rectify their ways or they'll learn they're no longer welcome.

torobone · by **torobone** » 2020-04-03 5:50 p.m.

For what it's worth, I also reached a point of posting less. Some of it does come from arguments where none is necessary or intended.

As for equipment, I looked for new horns about 10 years ago, and I learned a few things from TTF. Some private notes from Chris were very helpful to me, and one of these years I hope we meet.

I have also found that almost anybody can tell a good horn from a bad one. I have never found a pro playing a horn I don't love. But, I have loved many, many horns played by lesser players. Also, each trombone is different; every maker can make a excellent instrument and the occasional clunker. That's why the equipment discussion is so much fun. Who doesn't have a drawer full of mouthpieces?

Also, I continue to figure out things that work better for me. As I have progressed to having a real basis on which to build further, I find that the "soft machine" is truly a personal journey. Many pros have it figured out; some do not and they either retool or give up playing.

Many amateurs still struggle with the fundamentals of making a sound. No, I'm not talking about you. When someone is struggling, they reach out for any idea and they sometimes look for input and validation. To offer great amounts of advice is hard, when it is hard to explain some ideas and have them not be understood. This also leads to equipment changes that help for a time - a lot of equipment changes.

So I am choosing not to offer advice. I would like to have a discussion on how to get players started correctly on a journey of improvement, but again, this journey is different for each individual. The things I need to learn have a better chance of being fixed in a lesson rather than a forum post.

My current project is to move back to a smaller bass trombone mouthpiece. Chris, I might just make it to a Bach 1.5 G, but not yet. We'll see.

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2020-04-03 6:43 p.m.

[quote="torobone"]For what it's worth, I also reached a point of posting less. Some of it does come from arguments where none is necessary or intended.

As for equipment, I looked for new horns about 10 years ago, and I learned a few things from TTF. Some private notes from Chris were very helpful to me, and one of these years I hope we meet.

I have also found that almost anybody can tell a good horn from a bad one. I have never found a pro playing a horn I don't love. But, I have loved many, many horns played by lesser players. Also, each trombone is different; every maker can make a excellent instrument and the occasional clunker. That's why the equipment discussion is so much fun. Who doesn't have a drawer full of mouthpieces?

Also, I continue to figure out things that work better for me. As I have progressed to having a real basis on which to build further, I find that the "soft machine" is truly a personal journey. Many pros have it figured out; some do not and they either retool or give up playing.

Many amateurs still struggle with the fundamentals of making a sound. No, I'm not talking about you. When someone is struggling, they reach out for any idea and they sometimes look for input and validation. To offer great amounts of advice is hard, when it is hard to explain some ideas and have them not be understood. This also leads to equipment changes that help for a time - a lot of equipment changes.

So I am choosing not to offer advice. I would like to have a discussion on how to get players started correctly on a journey of improvement, but again, this journey is different for each individual. The things I need to learn have a better chance of being fixed in a lesson rather than a forum post.

My current project is to move back to a smaller bass trombone mouthpiece. Chris, I might just make it to a Bach 1.5 G, but not yet. We'll see.[/quote]

Nice to see you posting Martin. Don't worry about big or small mouthpieces, just look for good mouthpieces.... good for you, good for your horns.... they might even be smaller, but they might not.

Here's one to think about... if you play bass, big tenor and small tenor, life will be a lot easier if you can find mouthpieces with the same rim shape...not size, but rim contour...found that one out ....in the end.

Chris

FullPedalTrombonist · by **FullPedalTrombonist** » 2020-04-03 10:47 p.m.

Online environment aside I, too, am glad you’re doing well Chris.

Times are crazy and not everyone is doing their part for the rest of humanity. But we’re surviving. I hope we all keep practicing and growing

tjonz · by **tjonz** » 2020-04-04 11:36 a.m.

Just one word of warning about Chris Stearn: never cross swords with him.

torobone · by **torobone** » 2020-04-04 5:06 p.m.

[quote="FOSSIL"]

Nice to see you posting Martin. Don't worry about big or small mouthpieces, just look for good mouthpieces.... good for you, good for your horns.... they might even be smaller, but they might not.

Here's one to think about... if you play bass, big tenor and small tenor, life will be a lot easier if you can find mouthpieces with the same rim shape...not size, but rim contour...found that one out ....in the end.

Chris[/quote]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your response!

As you suggest, my mouthpiece choices are driven by sound. The rim feel I like is mostly that of traditional Bach mouthpieces. The only certainty I have in mouthpiece choices is my Yamaha Al Kay signature for my 891Z and the loaned 697Z. (Al had Yamaha produce a consistent 11C that bears his name.) Inexpensive but only readily available in Canada (pity, too quote an old tea commercial). $48 CAD so I keep thinking of buying a backup.

Every other mouthpiece choice is up for grabs to a point. I have spent more time working on my embouchure than choosing mouthpieces. This might be worthy of a thread, if I could describe it accurately. Suffice to say I use far more lip compression than mouthpiece pressure into my face.

My bass trombone playing has evolved the most, driven by the great big band I play with. I feel it to be a privilege to play there. That could be part of that thread I mentioned. I went to a large mouthpiece ( Griego .75) to be able to play pedal Fs, but as I figure things out, I want a more focused sound, so I'm downsizing.

Cheers.

hyperbolica · by **hyperbolica** » 2020-04-04 6:54 p.m.

This might be worthy of a thread

Do it. I love to hear the stories of high level players.

imsevimse · by **imsevimse** » 2020-04-05 5:37 a.m.

[quote="FOSSIL"]Here's one to think about... if you play bass, big tenor and small tenor, life will be a lot easier if you can find mouthpieces with the same rim shape...not size, but rim contour...found that one out ....in the end.

Chris[/quote]

I think that's why I prefer certain contours before others. The "grip" on the lip needs to be similar to be comfortable, but I also feel the maximum and minimum rim sizes I need, have to be practiced a lot to work. Not nessecary all sizes in between but the maximum size and the minimum size and then personally I need to put work in just ONE in between. That makes it possible to play all the others too as long as the "grip" on the lip is familiar. I think I have more than 100 mouthpieces and I switch regularly to find what best fits certain horns. I can play anything from Bach 11C to Bach 1/4 G but certain mouthpieces like the 7C in between does not feel comfortable. That one has definitely another contour. The Bach 12C I loved for many years does not fit me nowdays either because of the "grip" or contour as Chris says. A Bach 12C Mnt Vernon on the other hand works great, and that's because it's not like a modern 12C, the "grip" on the lip is different on that MntVernon.

I agree completely with Chris that different shapes of the rim is what makes it uncomfortable for me too and not size and when the contour differs it does not mean the mouthpiece is unplayable for me, but it needs then a lot more work. When I played alto the 12E was my choice. It was the best mouthpiece for me and that Bach 39 Alto but unfortunately that 12E also has another "grip". I think that's why I needed at least two weeks of work on that Alto mouthpiece whenever I had a gig later when I had turned away from the 12C on tenor. It was much easier when my favourite mouthpieces on tenor and alto had the same contour which was the case when I played alto a lot in the early 90'ies.

/Tom

timothy42b · by **timothy42b** » 2020-04-16 9:32 p.m.

Just saw this.

Glad to know Chris is okay, he’s one of the old timey characters here, and the playing he’s shared has been SO musical.

I’d forgotten the old thread, reread it with considerable trepidation. Who knows, it could have been my fault. Actually it didn’t seem that bad as a thread, especially compared to other forums. Sometimes history gets into the feelings.

My favorite comment was Harrison’s. Well played, sir!

As far as equipment vs player, I’m doing an experiment now trying to make a mini pBone alto sound good - because I’ve hurt my left hand and it’s all I can lift.

The slide is crap but ssking and boneagain gave me tips on improving it, plus my discovery it works better reversed.

I’d love to share my progress- but work is crazy just now.

Slidennis · by **Slidennis** » 2021-04-15 7:57 a.m.

And I miss RedHotMama, Precious, Sabutin, and so many others...

Do you miss Sabutin, timothy42b??? 😉

ArbanRubank · by **ArbanRubank** » 2021-04-15 10:42 a.m.

I just had my DNA tested and it turns out that Savio, Chris, Tom and me are brothers from different mothers, so...

Savio · by **Savio** » 2021-04-15 2:09 p.m.

[quote="ArbanRubank"]I just had my DNA tested and it turns out that Savio, Chris, Tom and me are brothers from different mothers, so...[/quote]

Must be that postman that travelled around long time ago.... :biggrin: .....

Leif

timothy42b · by **timothy42b** » 2021-04-15 2:27 p.m.

[quote="Slidennis"]And I miss RedHotMama, Precious, Sabutin, and so many others...

Do you miss Sabutin, timothy42b??? 😉[/quote]

How would a person whose profile says they joined in 2019 know I've had some disagreements with sabutin? Those days are deep in the past. Best forgotten. Perhaps I knew you by a different user name?

I haven't seen sabutin on FB in a while, but I dropped out of the FB pedagogy group over the aggravation I was getting there (but not from him.) He did post quite frequently there when I was on.

The disc golfers are battling it out over momentum transfer in the throw, it's quite entertaining, and some of them are worse than any of us in their comments. Quite interesting on FB and a forum.

ArbanRubank · by **ArbanRubank** » 2021-04-15 2:31 p.m.

[quote="Savio"]<QUOTE author="ArbanRubank" post_id="146153" time="1618497758" user_id="4907">
I just had my DNA tested and it turns out that Savio, Chris, Tom and me are brothers from different mothers, so...[/quote]

Must be that postman that travelled around long time ago.... :biggrin: .....

Leif
</QUOTE>

LOLOLOL! Good one, Leif! :lol:

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2021-04-15 11:14 p.m.

[quote="Slidennis"]And I miss RedHotMama, Precious, Sabutin, and so many others...

Do you miss Sabutin, timothy42b??? 😉[/quote]

What about Geezer?

Hope he's ok

Slidennis · by **Slidennis** » 2021-04-16 1:30 a.m.

[quote="timothy42b"]How would a person whose profile says they joined in 2019 know I've had some disagreements with sabutin? Those days are deep in the past. Best forgotten. Perhaps I knew you by a different user name?[/quote]

Nope, I was already on TTF with the same avatar, from 2004 or thereabouts...

It was fun looking at disagreements between some very rational persons and others more on the relational/psycho/spiritual side of life... When you have both side in yourself, as I do, it can come to everlasting internal dialogues inside of a same brain... So I did not interfere with you neither with Sam...

I just hope those days to be less and less a scientist and more and more an artist...

FOSSIL · by **FOSSIL** » 2021-04-16 3:28 a.m.

Hey guys, you frighten me when this topic reappears....I have to check myself out.....then I see that it's not about me, but about esteemed players who didn't make the jump. We are indeed poorer for their absence but it is what it is....Sam had already retreated to his own ,now defunct site and RHM was not interested if this site did not have a social section.. Many went over to Facebook, as that was the platform of the moment...some of us avoid Facebook for various reasons so the trombone community will be forever fractured going forward.

Sad.

Chris

baileyman · by **baileyman** » 2021-04-16 8:14 a.m.

Further up the thread "argument" is mentioned. It seems to me argument is really hard to have in the trombone world. Let me explain.

The horn is pretty obvious, being stuck to our faces, but what is actually going on with it is inchoate. You can't see it, you can't measure it, and often I realize when I try to talk about it, words fail me. I assume these things are true for others (but let me know if anyone is dead certain about what's happening!). If these are true, then the entire idea of having an argument about what's going on is simply invalid.

I would propose that disagreement on the horn is just not helpful.

But it seems to me what is helpful is to state things as well as you can, but recognize the uncertainty, and the difficulty of having your words which may seem perfectly descriptive to you, convey actual meaning to someone else.

In other words, trombone is a humiliating instrument, and talking about it also requires humility.

timothy42b · by **timothy42b** » 2021-04-16 8:28 a.m.

[quote="FOSSIL"]Many went over to Facebook, as that was the platform of the moment...some of us avoid Facebook for various reasons so the trombone community will be forever fractured going forward.

Sad.

Chris[/quote]

While I try to be forward looking and open to new things..............I'm still upset that we're no longer on the old trombone-l listserv.......................and at work I'm frequently required to sing a song whose lyrics were changed in 1956, and that irritates me no end.

I saw a post from sabutin on FB this morning so he's still around. A little mellower though.

ArbanRubank · by **ArbanRubank** » 2021-04-16 9:39 a.m.

I have tried all the FB's for trombone and such. There's just something about the format that bothers me so much, I can't be a part of any of it. Maybe it's group size. Maybe there is a "critical mass" size. Below it and - crickets. Above it and posts get lost instantly in the fog. Then there's the superficiality aspect of it. One almost has to be active in real time, or the subject moves on with no rear-view mirror. And I know this might sound awful on my part, but maybe it's too diverse. Maybe too much diversity comes across as chaos to everyone and everything gets lost in the translation. Misunderstanding can breed contempt. I don't know. I tried. Sometimes I think we could use more diversity on this forum, but then maybe there is a "critical mass" on it as well. FB is not for me, I guess. Not much on social media is, except to look and maybe to gather, but not to even try to contribute. I'm doomed.

Anyway, glad brother Blast is okay!

Kbiggs · by **Kbiggs** » 2021-04-16 11:34 a.m.

[quote="baileyman"]

But it seems to me what is helpful is to state things as well as you can, but recognize the uncertainty, and the difficulty of having your words which may seem perfectly descriptive to you, convey actual meaning to someone else.

In other words, trombone is a humiliating instrument, and talking about it also requires humility.[/quote]

Ain’t that just life, tho’?

baileyman · by **baileyman** » 2021-04-16 11:59 a.m.

[quote="Kbiggs"][...

Ain’t that just life, tho’?[/quote]

I don't think so. Trombone along with things like swimming seem exceptionally fuzzy compared with most everything else one can do. Statements like "The right way to do it" and the description of same seem usually off base or confusing. It seems like a major problem to communicate anything of value about the thing especially when everyone seems to have their own words or their own meanings. The rest of my life is pretty simple. Yours?

Kbiggs · by **Kbiggs** » 2021-04-16 10:24 p.m.

Wait... I’m agreeing with you... But no, my life isn’t that simple.

ArbanRubank · by **ArbanRubank** » 2021-04-16 11:04 p.m.

I work very, very hard every day to keep my playing maintenance-free! :pant:

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