Does any have an opinion on the Yam 3530R Trombones?

Is it similar to the 356G( 500/525) minus the Fattach?

I had a 356G years ago. IT played well especially after I removed the leadpipe.

I have seen them listed on the OLD TTF.

What are your thoughts.

I am also looking for a Yamaha Complete Trombone Model List Page.

This features Current and Discontinued models.

Thanks, John

I haven't tried the 3530R, but I did play a 356R for a few months last summer, which is the same horn without an F attachment. There are some differences between the 356R and 356G (really that whole series) that I think ended up making the 356G heavier and a little more dull. I really liked the 356R, and it worked everywhere I brought it. I ultimately sold it in favor of a straight horn (891Z), because I didn't want the attachment. If there had been a viable 3530R, I'd probably have bought it instead. I didn't consider the 455G an option, since it's not easily available domestically.

Personally, I really wish these options were more readily available. An 8-inch bell with a .500/.525 dual bore slide is such a versatile instrument. Likely even more so with a 7.5 or 7.75 inch bell, like the old Conn 32H. The 356R I had could fit into just about any ensemble as a tenor trombone. The 345Gs I've played were a little duller, a little harder to color. I think Yamaha steering the instrument towards the intermediate market meant a heavier, harder slide, ditto bell, and the switch to gold brass, made these instruments solid, but less interesting. I think the tendency to call Yamaha instruments "dull" comes from this bulking up of the student and intermediate lines.

Matt

I have a 356 that I picked up not too long ago but it isn't exactly what is described on the Yamaha's documentation. I can't remember off the top of my head if it's a G or an R but it's the one that is supposed to have a nickel slide, but it's all yellow brass. Still plays very nicely although I'd prefer a little more nickel throughout. On paper, the 356R is like, the ideal horn for me at my current mindset. Very flexible but still can get a darker sound than a straight smallbore - or at least that's been my experience.

I also played it with a 32H slide and it projected like nobody's business. Working on getting a 32H replica pipe from Noah to put in my current slide because of that.

[quote="brtnats"]I haven't tried the 3530R, but I did play a 356R for a few months last summer, which is the same horn without an F attachment.[/quote]

My Yamaha 356R has a valve.

/Tom

[quote="imsevimse"]<QUOTE author="brtnats" post_id="63090" time="1531134313" user_id="3153">
I haven't tried the 3530R, but I did play a 356R for a few months last summer, which is the same horn without an F attachment.[/quote]

My Yamaha 356R has a valve.

/Tom
</QUOTE>

You’re absolutely correct; that was supposed to read “same horn with an F attachment.” iPad apparently autocorrected.

It's a great Dual bore. Very s8milar to the Legendary Conn 32H Burkle which was a .500/.522 bore with a 7.5" bell.

The YSL-3530 is a 500/.525 with an 8" Rose brass bell.

The sound is insanely big & warm. Depending on the mouthpiece used you have a great 2nd & 3rd chair big band bone with an 11 or 7 mouthpiece, but drop to a bach 5 or 4 or even a Yamaha 48D now you have this fat, big & warm symphonic tenor.

I don't see why some say it's a step up grade.. it's a flat out pro grade tenor that gives the Bach 36 good company.

That's my 2 cents.

I’ve got a 356R that takes a large shank mouthpiece. I’ve been told that it’s missing a lead pipe but a repair tech told me the pipe is there. Can anyone confirm the shank size.

Should be small shank.

According to Yamaha, it takes a small shank.

<LINK_TEXT text="https://europe.yamaha.com/en/musical-in ... specs.html">https://europe.yamaha.com/en/musical-instruments/brass-woodwinds/products/trombones/ysl-356g/specs.html</LINK_TEXT>:

Mouthpiece SL-48S

<LINK_TEXT text="https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical ... rd_gp.html">https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/winds/mouthpieces/trombones/standard_gp.html</LINK_TEXT>:

* The last “S” : Small Shank

356G = "gold" (really rose) bell, yellow or nickel slide (I've seen both, nickel seems to be more common)

356R = red bell, yellow slide

455G, 456G = "gold" bell, yellow slide

3530R, 3540R = red bell, yellow slide

These models are all the same small shank, .500-.525" bore, and 8" bell, and all play basically the same. All have semi-open F attachment except the 455G and 3530R. The 3540R also has an all-yellow F loop, lacking the nickel trim that all the other F-attachment models have.

My 456G plays slightly better than my 3540R, but I think that's more down to the condition than anything else. Good horns, very big sound for their size, though not the most interesting.

Here's a visual example (3540R on top, 456G on bottom):



Admittedly, both of these are getting cannibalized for the valves... <EMOJI seq="1f608" tseq="1f608">😈</EMOJI>

[quote="Mitchwolberg5"]I’ve got a 356R that takes a large shank mouthpiece. I’ve been told that it’s missing a lead pipe but a repair tech told me the pipe is there. Can anyone confirm the shank size.[/quote]
I'd suggest measuring the bore of the upper inner slide. Something doesn't add up.

I've owned the 355, 356 and 455 as well as the 350c. They are all darker sounding than you'd expect. Maybe that's due to the lack of higher overtones you tend to get in that classic Yamaha "dead" feeling. The sound is good if you like a dark sound from a smaller horn, but the feel is in my opinion not good. There are two schools of thought on Yamaha trombones - one says they're great instruments and the other says they're great instruments but feel dead in the hand. I'm obviously in that second group.

I say they feel dead in the hand, but they sound very nice and overall play well. Great slides and valves. Good construction. Generally very nice cases as well. There's a lot to like about Yamaha trombones, just as long as you haven't been spoiled by Vintage Conns or Bachs. I'm convinced that the dead feeling comes from over-annealing the bells. The only way to prove this would be to perform a hardness test on the bells. My guess is that the Yammie bells of equivalent materials are probably thicker and softer, with Conns being thinner and harder. It's just conjecture, but there is something material-wise causing the Yamahas to respond that way. I'm not the only one who has said this.

I think the big difference between the 3xx series and the 4xx series is that the 4xx has more nickel silver on tuning slides. The 4xx horns just feel a little better. Maybe that's a figment, not sure.

Some of these x55/6 models are Japan only models, and I bought them directly from Japan on eBay. I did not know that they were the same as the 353/354 models. The horns were in great shape. If you're careful on eBay, you can get these horns cheap (less than say $700) and looking mostly new. Also, many of the Japanese vendors don't charge shipping, yet they were only 3-4 days in transit. I bought mine before all of this tariff BS, though, so pay attention.

The earlier comparison to the Conn 32h is apt, but I think incorrect. 32h is generally less dark than these 500/525 x 8" Yammies, and has more shimmer and lively feeling that Conns generally have over Yamahas. Interestingly, I put a Yamaha 356 main slide crook on my 32h because the sizes sort of match and the Conn slide width was terribly narrow, while the Yamaha slide width is very nice. It did change the flavor of the horn a little (the 32h is now a little darker), but didn't kill the Conn feel. Anyway, the 32h is only like the 522/525 Yammies in specs on paper, not in the way they play. I have kept my 32h and sold all my 500/525 Yamahas, if that says anything.

The 350c is a different creature. It is sized small like a C instrument, but it has a 1 step valve that is normally engaged, so it is normally in Bb. When you disengage the valve by pulling the trigger, the instrument becomes a C instrument. The main problem with this is the overall dead feeling of this branch of the Yamaha line and the additional stuffiness of going through the valve most of the time. I really wanted to like this horn, but in the end, it just wasn't engaging, or inspiring to play. It doesn't resonate like a Conn I guess is what I'm trying to say.

All of these Yamaha 500/525 bones are good general use instruments. Great for students as you can get a smaller instrument with a valve. They are also cheap yet well made. Good for bands in general. Disqualifying these horns from any particular use would be kind of academic and pedantic, but they don't have a bright sound you might want on jazz band lead, and they don't have the size and depth you might want for symphonic stuff, but they fit well anywhere in between.

At ITF, I played a 350C on the Yamaha display that was much better than the one you had. It had a gold brass bell... I don't remember what yours had. Played much more evenly, but I only played in in the exhibit room so I didn't get any real impression about the sound.

I don't know if I could ever get used to not having 7th position. It only has 6, you have to play low B in 2nd with the trigger, and low E doesn't exist.

All of the medium bore Yamaha (including their 500/525 horns) that I'm aware of share much in common with their lager bores. Its more in line with how the 36 and the 42 are nearly identical after the slide (though the Bach 36 predates the 42). The tuning slides are all interchangeable (and possibly identical though I did not take any measurements on any of these when I owned them) across the 356, 445/446, 548, 645/646, and IIRC 648 - probably others as well and the throat is similar to their large bores. Most "contemporary" medium bores are like this, including Shires, Rath, Edwards, Yamaha, Bach, some Conns (78, 88) etc. Some call this style of medium bore a "little big horn".

This is in contrast to a "big small horn" which more describe a medium bore slide on a bell section that is in some cases identical or nearly identical to a "small bore" (by which I mean 509 or smaller slides) bell section. These include the King 3BF+, 607F/608F and the Conn 32H, amonst others.

In other words, I think hyperbolica's assessment is pretty spot on. I played a 356 for quite some time... I want to say around 5 years (given my earlier comment from 2018, that tracks). And they are really good horns, in my experience. I also no longer play one, in favor of a "big small horn" as well, for what it's worth. I did occasionally use it for lead, and it was fine, as others have used a medium bore for lead (Victor Barranco did so with the Army Blues when Matt retired, for example). But it's definitely a medium/large bore, and so if you wouldn't bring a straight 525 to a gig, you probably also won't feel totally comfortable with a 356 on the same gig. The upper leg doesn't make as much of a difference, in my experience, as the bell throat, much in the same way that a Bach 50 slide on a 42 is still very much a tenor to me and a 547 slide on a bass is still a bass.

[quote="Matt K"]This is in contrast to a "big small horn" which more describe a medium bore slide on a bell section that is in some cases identical or nearly identical to a "small bore" (by which I mean 509 or smaller slides) bell section. These include the King 3BF+, 607F/608F and the Conn 32H, amonst others.[/quote]

Drifting off topic, I know. But I wonder if I could assemble a "big small horn" with my 36 slide and a donor bell section (maybe swapping out the receiver)? Most small horns have slides too narrow for me.

It would be easier to do what hyperbolica has done and get a wider crook and put it on an existing “big little-horn.” The King 607 is a popular choice because of their relative ubiquity and similarities to the pro Kings.

That said, you could do that but often times the large bore style bells (little big-horn) have a pretty wide tuning slide and as a consequence the whole bell section is “short” compared to smaller trombones. So you may end up with a longer bell section AND a longer slide which would make it unplayably flat. I actually unintentionally did this once. I bought a Shores T0825GLW at Dillon which played beautifully on a small bore Mt. Vernon bell I had. But when I took it back to practice, I realized it was super flat. Fortunately, I had a Shires bell section (well, a Bach 36 bell section setup for Shires stuff) and a swap of the tenon and I used that for awhile.