Lawler trombones

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-07-16 11:28 a.m.

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I just found this site! Thanks. I'd like to catch up with youse guys concerning the Lawler trombones. He has two models; 1 and 2. 500, 508, and 500/508 for the time being.

Model 1 is a bell forward design and the model 2 is a set back bell design similar to the Conn ballroom models.

The model 2 has the same amount of set back as a typical Williams 6; 10.5" from the end of the mouthpiece receiver to the end of the bell.

The model 1 is roughly 11.25" from the end of the mouthpiece receiver to the end of the bell.

There is a model 2 variant in the works that promises to be very exciting. More on that later when he sends me one for testing.

There is another horn in the works too and I will post info about it when I get the okay.

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SwissTbone · by **SwissTbone** » 2018-07-16 12:20 p.m.

Great to have you on this site!

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-07-16 12:36 p.m.

[quote="cozzagiorgi"]Great to have you on this site![/quote]
====

Thanks!

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mrdeacon · by **mrdeacon** » 2018-07-16 1:22 p.m.

Thanks for the literal info!

I kind of implied that the bell distance on the Model 2 was the same as on a Williams but it's nice to have measurements! You should tell Lawler to add that info to his website!

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2018-07-16 6:18 p.m.

I have had a Lawler for a bit over a month now. I got the Mod. 1 in red brass with a nickel slide and 7 1/2" bell. I primarily will be using it for playing lead in a big band. I was amazed at how much difference the bell flares made. The 7 1/2" flare gives a great bright sound that I was looking for in a lead horn.

Davidus1 · by **Davidus1** » 2018-07-16 6:37 p.m.

Thanks for the info!

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2018-07-16 7:36 p.m.

If you email Roy, he will generally respond within a day. He is busy making horns all day, so I think he does his correspondence at night.

MalecHeermans · by **MalecHeermans** » 2018-07-20 2:36 p.m.

[quote="TheSheriff"]------

I just found this site! Thanks. I'd like to catch up with youse guys concerning the Lawler trombones. He has two models; 1 and 2. 500, 508, and 500/508 for the time being.

Model 1 is a bell forward design and the model 2 is a set back bell design similar to the Conn ballroom models.

The model 2 has the same amount of set back as a typical Williams 6; 10.5" from the end of the mouthpiece receiver to the end of the bell.

The model 1 is roughly 11.25" from the end of the mouthpiece receiver to the end of the bell.

There is a model 2 variant in the works that promises to be very exciting. More on that later when he sends me one for testing.

There is another horn in the works too and I will post info about it when I get the okay.

=====[/quote]

Hi Sheriff :hi:

What set up(s) are you currently playing your Lawlers with?

Did you go for the flat bead or the rounded bead on the bell?

Good to see you here!

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-07-20 4:07 p.m.

[quote="MalecHeermans"]<QUOTE author="TheSheriff" post_id="63454" time="1531754919" user_id="3528">
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=====[/quote]

Hi Sheriff :hi:

What set up(s) are you currently playing your Lawlers with?

Did you go for the flat bead or the rounded bead on the bell?

Good to see you here!
</QUOTE>
=====

Hi Malec,

My model 1 is .025 red brass stem, red brass tuning slide with yellow brass tuning slide inners, and a nickel neck pipe. I had Roy make the counterweights thin wall instead of the normal thick wall. I did not need or like the extra weight on the back end, and I had him put a thin brass branch guard on the tuning slide bow to add a little bit of weight and protection. And it's very attractive, to boot. The balance is perfect.

My model 2 is .022 red brass stem and all red brass tuning slide, red brass tuning slide inners, and red brass neck pipe. So...all red brass. The balance is superb. I believe all of the model 2's come with a branch guard on the tuning slide bow. Cool.

My hand slide is an all yellow brass .500/.508 dual bore and I use a Kanstul W6 leadpipe.

A note about his red brass; it's not a dark red like some others, and honestly, I don't remember the copper content but it is the sound that grabs me. All of my other horns (Williams, Kanstul) are yellow brass, and while they sound great, especially the Williams, there is something about these red brass Lawler's that really grab my ear. Old school to the max with a ton of character.

Roy's trombones are very special and play every bit as good as the best examples of the finest trombones ever built, and of course, they have their own signature sound and feel. It's a sound and feel that I absolutely love.

I have three different flares and they all have his original signature flat bead. The one I use 95% of the time is an .022 red brass cut to 7.5". It is one sweet flare!

There are a couple more model variants to come, so please stay tuned and most of all, patient. Roy is a one man shop and has become very busy, so any research and development takes time.

I also recommend trying different leadpipes, both his and others, as well as different mouthpieces to find the best balance. If anything, his trombones might be a bit sensitive to leadpipe and mouthpiece selection, and I have found that the more open in feel and blow the leadpipe and mouthpiece are, the better they are suited to a Lawler. Of course, that has been my experience only, so......there ya have it.

Thanks

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SwissTbone · by **SwissTbone** » 2018-07-21 1:59 a.m.

Interesting! Does he also make (or doing research ) for a large bore or bass trombone?

keybone · by **keybone** » 2018-07-21 2:17 a.m.

TheSheriff, interesting that you found this thread on the day Roy finished building my new trombone!

I received it today. I have not had a chance to play with an ensemble yet but am thoroughly impressed. Beautifully assembled and a big sound. Time has taken a toll on me as I have become an aging, asthmatic trombone player! I now usually play dixieland, combo and big band.

With that said, my setup:

Model 2 .022 Yellow brass stem

Yellow brass tuning slide

7 3/4" .20 Yellow brass flare

8" .022 Red brass flare

.500 Brass slide with a nickel crook

#5 lead pipe - I asked for the #10, but I just noticed a 5 on the lead pipe. The sound is good now. Would the #10 make a big difference? I might just email Roy tomorrow.

mrdeacon · 2018-07-21 4:12 a.m.

Sherrif two questions!

So both your horns do not have the weighted back brace? Which makes the balance more like a traditional Bach or Williams without a weight on the back. Correct?

You said his red brass isn't as red as other makes of horns... would you compare it closer to a gold brass? I know sometimes the terms for red brass, rose brass, and gold brass become interchangeable with some makers.

That's cool to know he'll do custom mods like that!

Being able to choose specs like that makes me want to sell my Rath and order a Lawler!

mrdeacon · by **mrdeacon** » 2018-07-21 4:14 a.m.

[quote="cozzagiorgi"]Interesting! Does he also make (or doing research ) for a large bore or bass trombone?[/quote]
Shoot, if he decides to make a bass trombone he can sign me up!

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-07-21 7:28 p.m.

[quote="cozzagiorgi"]Interesting! Does he also make (or doing research ) for a large bore or bass trombone?[/quote]
======

There will be no large bore or f-attachment Lawler trombones. The largest bore he will make will be a .525 straight tenor. Bless his creative little heart! Of course, that could change in the future, but I seriously doubt it.

======

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-07-21 7:30 p.m.

[quote="keybone"]TheSheriff, interesting that you found this thread on the day Roy finished building my new trombone!

I received it today. I have not had a chance to play with an ensemble yet but am thoroughly impressed. Beautifully assembled and a big sound. Time has taken a toll on me as I have become an aging, asthmatic trombone player! I now usually play dixieland, combo and big band.

With that said, my setup:

Model 2 .022 Yellow brass stem

Yellow brass tuning slide

7 3/4" .20 Yellow brass flare

8" .022 Red brass flare

.500 Brass slide with a nickel crook

#5 lead pipe - I asked for the #10, but I just noticed a 5 on the lead pipe. The sound is good now. Would the #10 make a big difference? I might just email Roy tomorrow.[/quote]
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Congratulations on your new Lawler! The #10 leadpipe will have a more open blow/feel to it.

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TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-07-21 7:44 p.m.

[quote="mrdeacon"]Sherrif two questions!

So both your horns do not have the weighted back brace? Which makes the balance more like a traditional Bach or Williams without a weight on the back. Correct?

You said his red brass isn't as red as other makes of horns... would you compare it closer to a gold brass? I know sometimes the terms for red brass, rose brass, and gold brass become interchangeable with some makers.

That's cool to know he'll do custom mods like that!

Being able to choose specs like that makes me want to sell my Rath and order a Lawler![/quote]
--------

Roy is a true custom builder and will discuss a variety of options with you and any thoughts or ideas you may have. My model 1 has thin wall counterweights per my choice, and all model 2's have thin wall counterweights because the heavy wall ones are not needed due to the set-back bell giving better balance right off the bat! And I believe all model 2's come with the thin brass branch guard strip on the tuning slide bow. Perhaps keybone could answer that.

Keybone, does your brand new model 2 have a thin brass branch guard strip on the tuning slide bow?

I honestly do not know how or what to compare Roy's red brass to, as far as other makes/brands. All I know and care about is the SOUND. Oh the sound.......Glorious and character filled. Sorta like me (the character part).

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TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-07-21 7:52 p.m.

[quote="Mikebmiller"]I have had a Lawler for a bit over a month now. I got the Mod. 1 in red brass with a nickel slide and 7 1/2" bell. I primarily will be using it for playing lead in a big band. I was amazed at how much difference the bell flares made. The 7 1/2" flare gives a great bright sound that I was looking for in a lead horn.[/quote]
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Mike, how are you getting on with your new Lawler?

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Walleye · by **Walleye** » 2018-07-21 7:55 p.m.

I have had a model 2 for about a month now. It has the brass strip/guard on the tuning slide.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-07-21 8:54 p.m.

[quote="Walleye"]I have had a model 2 for about a month now. It has the brass strip/guard on the tuning slide.[/quote]
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Thanks for the info.

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mrdeacon · by **mrdeacon** » 2018-07-21 9:56 p.m.

TheSheriff, another random question... does Lawler draw his own slide tubes?

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-07-22 8:25 a.m.

[quote="mrdeacon"]TheSheriff, another random question... does Lawler draw his own slide tubes?[/quote]
=====

That is the only part of his horns that he does not make himself, though he has contemplated doing so which would give him complete and total control over the process. He currently uses two different suppliers depending on needs.

My 500/508 tubes are from one supplier and it is excellent, and my 500 that he built for my Williams 6 is from the other supplier, and it is excellent too.

Roy is very particular about slide tubes and I know for a fact that he has had lengthy conversations with both suppliers concerning quality and consistency. He's not afraid to send slide tubes back to the supplier if they are not up to his standards.

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MalecHeermans · by **MalecHeermans** » 2018-07-22 12:02 p.m.

That's all great info Sheriff - thanks for taking the time to post all that info.

I'm in the process of ordering some components now and will update when I get some stuff to try.

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2018-07-22 4:51 p.m.

[quote="TheSheriff"]<QUOTE author="Mikebmiller" post_id="63477" time="1531779488" user_id="213">
I have had a Lawler for a bit over a month now. I got the Mod. 1 in red brass with a nickel slide and 7 1/2" bell. I primarily will be using it for playing lead in a big band. I was amazed at how much difference the bell flares made. The 7 1/2" flare gives a great bright sound that I was looking for in a lead horn.[/quote]
=====

Mike, how are you getting on with your new Lawler?

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</QUOTE>

Loving it. But I still can't play a double high B flat.

I got it just before my big band shut down for the summer, so I only had one chance to play it with them. I have been practicing with it quite a bit though. The slide is great. I may get a 7 3/4 or 8" flare for when I need a little bit warmer sound. But then again, I have a 3B for that, so who knows?

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-07-22 5:00 p.m.

[quote="MalecHeermans"]That's all great info Sheriff - thanks for taking the time to post all that info.

I'm in the process of ordering some components now and will update when I get some stuff to try.[/quote]
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Yeah, keep us posted.

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TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-07-22 5:03 p.m.

[quote="Mikebmiller"]<QUOTE author="TheSheriff" post_id="63744" time="1532217155" user_id="3528">

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Mike, how are you getting on with your new Lawler?

-------[/quote]

Loving it. But I still can't play a double high B flat.

I got it just before my big band shut down for the summer, so I only had one chance to play it with them. I have been practicing with it quite a bit though. The slide is great. I may get a 7 3/4 or 8" flare for when I need a little bit warmer sound. But then again, I have a 3B for that, so who knows?
</QUOTE>
=======

Good stuff. Double Bb..... It must be the horn....

=======

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2018-07-22 7:56 p.m.

[quote="TheSheriff"]<QUOTE author="Mikebmiller" post_id="63814" time="1532292716" user_id="213">

Loving it. But I still can't play a double high B flat.

I got it just before my big band shut down for the summer, so I only had one chance to play it with them. I have been practicing with it quite a bit though. The slide is great. I may get a 7 3/4 or 8" flare for when I need a little bit warmer sound. But then again, I have a 3B for that, so who knows?[/quote]
=======

Good stuff. Double Bb..... It must be the horn....

=======
</QUOTE>

The horn or the mouthpiece. Can't be the chops.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-07-23 9:16 a.m.

[quote="Mikebmiller"]<QUOTE author="TheSheriff" post_id="63816" time="1532293403" user_id="3528">

=======

Good stuff. Double Bb..... It must be the horn....

=======[/quote]

The horn or the mouthpiece. Can't be the chops.
</QUOTE>
======

It's been years since I could paste a double Bb. There was a time I could do it on demand. But now, eh, what's the point. I think it was Sam Burtis that said "playing really high on the trombone is like being the worlds tallest midget". Or something to that effect.

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Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2018-07-24 11:14 a.m.

I would be happy to have a reliable high F. I can play it, but not as reliably as I would like.

keybone · by **keybone** » 2018-07-24 11:27 a.m.

[quote="Mikebmiller"]I would be happy to have a reliable high F. I can play it, but not as reliably as I would like.[/quote]

My high F is reliable about 70% of the time. :biggrin:

Davidus1 · by **Davidus1** » 2018-07-24 10:28 p.m.

[quote="TheSheriff"]<QUOTE author="MalecHeermans" post_id="63689" time="1532111787" user_id="3128">

Hi Sheriff :hi:

What set up(s) are you currently playing your Lawlers with?

Did you go for the flat bead or the rounded bead on the bell?

Good to see you here![/quote]
=====

Hi Malec,

My model 1 is .025 red brass stem, red brass tuning slide with yellow brass tuning slide inners, and a nickel neck pipe. I had Roy make the counterweights thin wall instead of the normal thick wall. I did not need or like the extra weight on the back end, and I had him put a thin brass branch guard on the tuning slide bow to add a little bit of weight and protection. And it's very attractive, to boot. The balance is perfect.

My model 2 is .022 red brass stem and all red brass tuning slide, red brass tuning slide inners, and red brass neck pipe. So...all red brass. The balance is superb. I believe all of the model 2's come with a branch guard on the tuning slide bow. Cool.

My hand slide is an all yellow brass .500/.508 dual bore and I use a Kanstul W6 leadpipe.

A note about his red brass; it's not a dark red like some others, and honestly, I don't remember the copper content but it is the sound that grabs me. All of my other horns (Williams, Kanstul) are yellow brass, and while they sound great, especially the Williams, there is something about these red brass Lawler's that really grab my ear. Old school to the max with a ton of character.

Roy's trombones are very special and play every bit as good as the best examples of the finest trombones ever built, and of course, they have their own signature sound and feel. It's a sound and feel that I absolutely love.

I have three different flares and they all have his original signature flat bead. The one I use 95% of the time is an .022 red brass cut to 7.5". It is one sweet flare!

There are a couple more model variants to come, so please stay tuned and most of all, patient. Roy is a one man shop and has become very busy, so any research and development takes time.

I also recommend trying different leadpipes, both his and others, as well as different mouthpieces to find the best balance. If anything, his trombones might be a bit sensitive to leadpipe and mouthpiece selection, and I have found that the more open in feel and blow the leadpipe and mouthpiece are, the better they are suited to a Lawler. Of course, that has been my experience only, so......there ya have it.

Thanks

------
</QUOTE>

Thanks for the posts. Great to hear about the Lawler horns. I see you own the Kanstul 1606. What do you think of it?

Jimkinkella · by **Jimkinkella** » 2018-07-25 1:45 a.m.

Material question, has Roy ever done or considered nickle / nickle plated bells?

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-07-25 7:47 a.m.

------

[/quote]

Thanks for the posts. Great to hear about the Lawler horns. I see you own the Kanstul 1606. What do you think of it?

[/quote]

--------

I like my Kanstul 1606 just fine. It is the prototype and is the best example of a 1606 I have ever played. It has a heavier nickel slide than the production models and uses the slide to bell connector from the model 750 instead of the Williams style connector of the production models.

I rarely play it anymore as I generally prefer playing my Lawler's and Williams'. I'm contemplating selling the 1606.

======

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-07-25 7:58 a.m.

[quote="Jimkinkella"]Material question, has Roy ever done or considered nickle / nickle plated bells?[/quote]
--------

Years ago when Roy was making his Herb Bruce design trombones he did nickel flares. I had one but did not like it as much as a 490 all brass horn that he built me. That little 490 Lawler was a sweet horn and I never should have sold it.

I do not think he has any interest in nickel stems or flares. I can't say as I blame him, because it is not a popular material for a trombone. You could call or email him to ask.

Speaking of a 490. Is there any interest out there for a sub 500 bore Lawler?

======

Sid · by **Sid** » 2018-07-31 11:58 a.m.

Next week marks two years of owning a Lawler for me. It's probably one of the best investments I have made regarding a horn.

MalecHeermans · by **MalecHeermans** » 2018-07-31 4:37 p.m.

[quote="TheSheriff"]<QUOTE author="Jimkinkella" post_id="63982" time="1532497518" user_id="132">
Material question, has Roy ever done or considered nickle / nickle plated bells?[/quote]
I do not think he has any interest in nickel stems or flares. I can't say as I blame him, because it is not a popular material for a trombone. You could call or email him to ask.
</QUOTE>

He talks about his material philosophy on the website:

"My thoughts on alloy.

I think when you have a trombone made out of all brass (no nickel) you get a more fluid and even feel from bottom to top registers.

I like brass!"

Nickel is fickle (!) in design. I have a nickel tuning slide, in addition to the standard brass tuning slide, for my Shires and it REALLY shakes things up, particularly on my "smaller" set-up. So much so that I don't use it with that set-up ever. There is a little gain in clarity and attack, but I lose a lot of color with it on the small bell without the valve. I keep it hooked up on my bigger bell with the valve, mostly for practicing at home but also for the occasional orchestral gig where color is not at a premium.

So... I ordered a Model 1 stem in .022, a .500 and a .508 slide (I will probably only keep one), and a 7.75" bell in .022 and a 8" bell in .020. All yellow brass. Oh and I went for rounded beads purely for aesthetics.

The concept is that the smaller bell will be a heavier hitting bright flare to use in big bands and/or when acoustic projection is necessary. The bigger (and lighter) bell will be for recording sessions and/or situations when I want sizzle with a little less effort.

I'm pretty excited. I love the design, I love the idea of a screw bell, I am a fan of the sound and concept of many of the intrepid bonists who have taken the plunge already, and Roy is just great.

I'm playing a Hammond 13ML as my main all rounder these days, but I have a 14M on the way to try with this set up for those moments when you have to have that smaller rim vintage vibe.

I will keep you all posted.

What is everyone using for cases? I'm so happy with my Bonna regular tenor case I've been eyeing this guy:

<LINK_TEXT text="http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/j ... able-bell/">http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/jazz-trombone-case-with-detachable-bell/</LINK_TEXT>

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2018-07-31 6:56 p.m.

Roy threw in one of his single flare gig bags with my horn. It is very light and compact, but doesn't have room for much of anything other than the horn - like not even a place to put your mouthpiece. I haven't used it, but I could see where it would com in handy for an airplane, as long as you don't have to check it. I just use a regular gig bag.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-08-01 8:06 a.m.

[quote="Sid"]Next week marks two years of owning a Lawler for me. It's probably one of the best investments I have made regarding a horn.[/quote]
======

Nice to hear!

======

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-08-01 8:17 a.m.

[quote="MalecHeermans"]<QUOTE author="TheSheriff" post_id="63991" time="1532519892" user_id="3528">

I do not think he has any interest in nickel stems or flares. I can't say as I blame him, because it is not a popular material for a trombone. You could call or email him to ask.[/quote]

He talks about his material philosophy on the website:

"My thoughts on alloy.

I think when you have a trombone made out of all brass (no nickel) you get a more fluid and even feel from bottom to top registers.

I like brass!"

Nickel is fickle (!) in design. I have a nickel tuning slide, in addition to the standard brass tuning slide, for my Shires and it REALLY shakes things up, particularly on my "smaller" set-up. So much so that I don't use it with that set-up ever. There is a little gain in clarity and attack, but I lose a lot of color with it on the small bell without the valve. I keep it hooked up on my bigger bell with the valve, mostly for practicing at home but also for the occasional orchestral gig where color is not at a premium.

So... I ordered a Model 1 stem in .022, a .500 and a .508 slide (I will probably only keep one), and a 7.75" bell in .022 and a 8" bell in .020. All yellow brass. Oh and I went for rounded beads purely for aesthetics.

The concept is that the smaller bell will be a heavier hitting bright flare to use in big bands and/or when acoustic projection is necessary. The bigger (and lighter) bell will be for recording sessions and/or situations when I want sizzle with a little less effort.

I'm pretty excited. I love the design, I love the idea of a screw bell, I am a fan of the sound and concept of many of the intrepid bonists who have taken the plunge already, and Roy is just great.

I'm playing a Hammond 13ML as my main all rounder these days, but I have a 14M on the way to try with this set up for those moments when you have to have that smaller rim vintage vibe.

I will keep you all posted.

What is everyone using for cases? I'm so happy with my Bonna regular tenor case I've been eyeing this guy:

<LINK_TEXT text="http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/j ... able-bell/">http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/jazz-trombone-case-with-detachable-bell/</LINK_TEXT>
</QUOTE>
=======

Very nice! Please let us know what you think of it when you get it and after you've put it through its paces.

Regarding cases, I use hard cases only, and that MB detachable bell case looks great. Soft cases keep repairmen busy.

Which leadpipe did you order, and do you have other leadpipes to try too?

=======

dembones · by **dembones** » 2018-08-01 3:27 p.m.

[quote="MalecHeermans"]

What is everyone using for cases? I'm so happy with my Bonna regular tenor case I've been eyeing this guy:

<LINK_TEXT text="http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/j ... able-bell/">http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/jazz-trombone-case-with-detachable-bell/</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]

Love my Lawlers!

This case looks great - does anyone know where you can buy one? I can't find it at any of the online retailers.

Thanks!

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2018-08-01 5:54 p.m.

Hickeys has them, but they are pretty pricey - $550.

RJMason · by **RJMason** » 2018-08-03 2:32 p.m.

I love Lawler trombones. I ended up selling my original one after I bought a Williams and didn’t have as many touring gigs, but may order a Model 2, bell closer to face, but lighter weight than my early Lawler horn when my next tour comes up. I have a zip up pouch I received on a flight on emirates. I used to keep my mouthpiece, slide oil, phone charger, etc in that and put it inside the bell flare of the small gig bag. Never a dent. I’d usually fit a t shirt or an extra piece of clothing to pad it. Put it overhead and as careful to not let anyone crush it. Also would fit perfectly in front of two carry on bags, so put mine in next to someone else’s suitcase, horn in front, shut the bin, no problem!

MalecHeermans · by **MalecHeermans** » 2018-08-14 4:57 p.m.

[quote="TheSheriff"]

Very nice! Please let us know what you think of it when you get it and after you've put it through its paces.

Regarding cases, I use hard cases only, and that MB detachable bell case looks great. Soft cases keep repairmen busy.

Which leadpipe did you order, and do you have other leadpipes to try too?

=======[/quote]

Very much looking forward to checking this horn out.

Hard cases are the only option for me as I frequently test their robustness.

I haven't gotten into a discussion about leadpipes with Roy yet. I really liked the Kanstul H8 on the Yamaha 891Z I had, so if I can't find something I like with him I will probably start there (or H6 if I go for the .500 slide.)

[quote="dembones"]This case looks great - does anyone know where you can buy one? I can't find it at any of the online retailers.[/quote]

I think Hornguys is probably your best bet. They seem to have a good relationship with Bonna and I'm sure you can call them to get one of these on the next shipment.

As soon as I had posted about that case they changed the website so the regular screwball case that fits an orchestral tenor (which I didn't like as much design-wise) has been changed significantly to be more like a Chronkite two piece. Check it out here:

<LINK_TEXT text="http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/t ... bell-mb-2/">http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/tenor-trombone-case-with-detachable-bell-mb-2/</LINK_TEXT>

Very cool, but not what I'm looking for. So I think I'll go for the small tenor screw bell case.

[quote="Mikebmiller"]Hickeys has them, but they are pretty pricey - $550.[/quote]

But you're going to pay that for a nice gig bag. If you do this for your daily bread you shouldn't bat an eyelash at $550. Peace of mind and comfort alone are worth the price. Same with instruments, but that's another thread.

mrdeacon · by **mrdeacon** » 2018-08-14 5:07 p.m.

MalecHeermans, the old style screwbell case is still listed on the bonna website. Hornguys also has the old style screw bell case listed on their website still. I think you just got thing mixed up...

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.hornguys.com/collections/tr ... screw-bell">https://www.hornguys.com/collections/trombone-cases/products/marcus-bonna-tenor-trombone-case-screw-bell</LINK_TEXT>

<LINK_TEXT text="http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/t ... able-bell/">http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/tenor-trombone-case-with-detachable-bell/</LINK_TEXT>

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-08-15 8:38 a.m.

[quote="MalecHeermans"]<QUOTE author="TheSheriff" post_id="64510" time="1533125842" user_id="3528">

Very nice! Please let us know what you think of it when you get it and after you've put it through its paces.

Regarding cases, I use hard cases only, and that MB detachable bell case looks great. Soft cases keep repairmen busy.

Which leadpipe did you order, and do you have other leadpipes to try too?

=======[/quote]

Very much looking forward to checking this horn out.

Hard cases are the only option for me as I frequently test their robustness.

I haven't gotten into a discussion about leadpipes with Roy yet. I really liked the Kanstul H8 on the Yamaha 891Z I had, so if I can't find something I like with him I will probably start there (or H6 if I go for the .500 slide.)

</QUOTE>
----------

If you can get your hands on a Kanstul W6 I highly recommend it. Good luck!

========

dembones · by **dembones** » 2018-08-15 10:46 a.m.

[quote="mrdeacon"]MalecHeermans, the old style screwbell case is still listed on the bonna website. Hornguys also has the old style screw bell case listed on their website still. I think you just got thing mixed up...

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.hornguys.com/collections/tr ... screw-bell">https://www.hornguys.com/collections/trombone-cases/products/marcus-bonna-tenor-trombone-case-screw-bell</LINK_TEXT>

<LINK_TEXT text="http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/t ... able-bell/">http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/tenor-trombone-case-with-detachable-bell/</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]

The new "Jazz Trombone Case with Detachable Bell" case is on the MB site here:

<LINK_TEXT text="http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/j ... able-bell/">http://www.mbcases.com.br/en/products/jazz-trombone-case-with-detachable-bell/</LINK_TEXT>

I put an order in at Horn Guys for their next batch from MB. It's not on the Horn Guys website but they know about it and can order it.

TheSheriff · 2018-08-28 10:56 a.m.

------

Update! The Lawler model 3 is in my hands and it is a winner. The model 3 is a variation of the model 2. The model 3 is a set back bell design just like the model 2, but the model 3 has a j-bend tuning slide. This means that the small (neck pipe) side, straight leg portion of the tuning slide, has been moved all the way down to just above the bell to slide receiver/connector.

Envision a candy cane. Moving the (small side) straight leg portion of the tuning slide down to just above the receiver allows for a longer run of uninterrupted continuous taper. There is only one tuning slide cross brace and it is solid brass instead of hollow. The connecting ferrules that the cross brace is brazed to are heavy weight, and the bend has a small protective brass strip. The balance is excellent.

The main bell brace is the same diameter as the model 1 and model 2, but it is made from a heavier wall brass, which was necessary for structural stability. One must exercise just a little bit of care and caution when removing or re-installing the candy cane looking tuning slide, but it is not a big deal. It should be done while holding the bell section across your lap and not attached to the hand slide. You would only need to do this once in a while for cleaning and lubing. Adjusting the tuning slide on the fly while the horn is fully assembled is no biggie, simply reach up to the tuning slide cross brace and make your adjustment.

Now for the blow. It is a more open blow somewhat reminiscent of my Williams model 6, but with the immediacy of sound and core of a Lawler. For me, that is a big WOW! From ppp to fff it is a thing of amazement. Very fluid and very even from top to bottom.

I had Roy make mine in all red brass. The stem is .022 and the j-bend and tuning slide inners are red brass too. With my .022 red brass 7 1/2" flare it is an absolute beast. My hand slide is an all yellow brass .500/.508 dual bore and I use a Kanstul W6 leadpipe. My mouthpiece is a Hammond custom that is similar to a Stork T2.

When Roy gets a chance he will be putting up info and photos of the model 3 on his website.

=====

SwissTbone · by **SwissTbone** » 2018-08-28 10:58 a.m.

Sherrif, one day we will need to see your different Lawlers in action!

A youtube video of you comparing those horns would be a great asset in marketing those horns.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-08-30 11:01 a.m.

------

For those that are interested, photos of the new model 3 are now on Roy's website. He references the Williams J-bend model, meaning the Williams model 9, which is a mid-bore f-attachment horn that has a J-bend. Roy's model 3 will only be a straight small bore tenor. He has no plans for an f-attachment trombone, however, a mid-bore, straight .525 is in the works.

I've had my model 3 for several days now and it is superb. The one in the photo is the one he made for me.

=====

bgreen · by **bgreen** » 2018-09-06 3:07 p.m.

That model 3 sounds interesting.

I'd love to try a medium bore horn from him.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-09-06 5:05 p.m.

[quote="bgreen"]That model 3 sounds interesting.

I'd love to try a medium bore horn from him.[/quote]
=======

The model 3 is, to me, more than interesting. My trumpet playing friend calls it the worlds greatest trombone. He tells me that I play it more intuitively and naturally than I do any of my other horns. Of all the great horns I have, the model 3 amazes me on a daily basis.

I had Roy make me a 7 3/8" .022 yellow flare with a traditional rolled bead and a soldered rim wire. It immediately became my favorite with my model 3. Whereas my 7 1/2" .022 red flare is my favorite with my model 1. That's the beauty of the detachable flare system. It's easy to zero in on the ideal set up and it can be done very affordably.

I love all my Lawler trombones; each has their own distinct personality, yet they are way more alike than they are unalike. His trombones across the board have the Lawler signature sound, feel, and playability. No funny business is to be found anywhere. They are very efficient designs and it comes across in their playability and predictability.

The medium bore that is in the works promises to be spectacular. It's going to be a real old-schooler. Stay tuned for a full report when I get my hands on one. It will probably be a few months away.

---------

mrdeacon · by **mrdeacon** » 2018-09-06 9:08 p.m.

Sherrif, is the J bend fully continuous like a Williams J bend?

It's hard to tell but with the extra brace it seems like it would still disrupt the taper.

I have a Williams style J bend and my Minick bass and I absolutely love how it plays. I feel that I get the best of both worlds, continuous taper, and lighter weight slide, with it.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-09-07 8:43 a.m.

[quote="mrdeacon"]Sherrif, is the J bend fully continuous like a Williams J bend?

It's hard to tell but with the extra brace it seems like it would still disrupt the taper.

I have a Williams style J bend and my Minick bass and I absolutely love how it plays. I feel that I get the best of both worlds, continuous taper, and lighter weight slide, with it.[/quote]
=====

The j-bend in the prototype was one continuous piece, but in doing so he had to make the instrument wider which is something he did not like. Making it wider was required because it was impossible to put a bend in the neck pipe area of the j-bend which would have been necessary to allow for an 8" flare.

So what he did is make it two piece, allowing him to put a traditional bend in the neck pipe which will then accommodate an 8" flare without being too close to your passing fingers. Importantly though, the taper is continuous (same as the prototype) because the neck pipe butts up to the tuning slide bow and is soldered or brazed, I don't know which, with absolutely no interruption in the continuous taper. The cross brace is brazed to heavy ferrules that fit around the tubing, so there is no interruption at all.

It's a beautiful design that plays beautifully. You are correct about getting the best of both worlds. The continuous taper of a TIS trombone bell section, but without the extra weight of a TIS hand slide. Brilliant!

------

mrdeacon · by **mrdeacon** » 2018-09-07 1:33 p.m.

That's really smart! The Model 3 has me very intrigued!

Do you know if he plans to make his medium bore model also a J bend or is it a traditional tuning slide?

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-09-07 4:22 p.m.

[quote="mrdeacon"]That's really smart! The Model 3 has me very intrigued!

Do you know if he plans to make his medium bore model also a J bend or is it a traditional tuning slide?[/quote]
-------

The medium bore, which I am pretty sure he will call the model 4, will be a traditional reverse tuning slide just like the model 1 and 2, and it will be a set back bell like the model 2 and 3. The model 3 J-bend uses a non-reverse tuning slide. Roy did that for reasons of comfort. If he had made it a reverse tuning slide, the thumb of your left hand would likely come into contact with the gap that you have when you pull the tuning slide out to adjust to your base line pitch. Most of us are probably out about a 1/4 to a 1/2 inch, and you'd feel that gap rubbing on your thumb, so that is why the J-bend uses non-reverse tuning. Non-reverse tuning moves the tuning slide gap further up and out of the way of your left thumb.

I'm really excited to see how the medium bore turns out. Knowing Roy as I do, I am sure it will be fantastic.

Stay tuned.

======

MalecHeermans · by **MalecHeermans** » 2018-09-20 10:57 a.m.

I'll post some thoughts soon, but in the meantime enjoy this little clip of the Lawler in action:

<YOUTUBE id="411yb_kSuZQ">https://youtu.be/411yb_kSuZQ</YOUTUBE>

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-09-20 3:18 p.m.

=======

Malec............Nice!

----------

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-10-03 2:24 p.m.

------

Hey all,

I have been re-acquainting myself with Lawler leadpipes. For the longest time I have been using a Kanstul W6.

I have all three of the Lawler leadpipes; 5, 10, and 15. I have come to realize that the 10 pipe is the best one for me in my model 3. Better than my Kanstul W6 and a host of other pipes I have. The Lawler 15 seems to work best in my model 1, though the 10 ain't bad either. The 5 is too tight for the way I blow.

There must be a synergy in his tapers. Y'know, how they work together as a system; the tapers of the neckpipe, tuning slide crook, bell stem, and leadpipe.

The more I play his stuff, the more I realize he is a genius. My opinion only.

=====

Davidus1 · by **Davidus1** » 2018-10-05 4:36 p.m.

[quote="TheSheriff"]<QUOTE author="mrdeacon" post_id="67106" time="1536341582" user_id="3239">
That's really smart! The Model 3 has me very intrigued!

Do you know if he plans to make his medium bore model also a J bend or is it a traditional tuning slide?[/quote]
-------

The medium bore, which I am pretty sure he will call the model 4, will be a traditional reverse tuning slide just like the model 1 and 2, and it will be a set back bell like the model 2 and 3. The model 3 J-bend uses a non-reverse tuning slide. Roy did that for reasons of comfort. If he had made it a reverse tuning slide, the thumb of your left hand would likely come into contact with the gap that you have when you pull the tuning slide out to adjust to your base line pitch. Most of us are probably out about a 1/4 to a 1/2 inch, and you'd feel that gap rubbing on your thumb, so that is why the J-bend uses non-reverse tuning. Non-reverse tuning moves the tuning slide gap further up and out of the way of your left thumb.

I'm really excited to see how the medium bore turns out. Knowing Roy as I do, I am sure it will be fantastic.

Stay tuned.

======
</QUOTE>

Any ETA on the medium bore? Just curious when they might be available. Thanks.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-10-05 4:55 p.m.

[quote="Davidus1"]<QUOTE author="TheSheriff" post_id="67117" time="1536351758" user_id="3528">

-------

The medium bore, which I am pretty sure he will call the model 4, will be a traditional reverse tuning slide just like the model 1 and 2, and it will be a set back bell like the model 2 and 3. The model 3 J-bend uses a non-reverse tuning slide. Roy did that for reasons of comfort. If he had made it a reverse tuning slide, the thumb of your left hand would likely come into contact with the gap that you have when you pull the tuning slide out to adjust to your base line pitch. Most of us are probably out about a 1/4 to a 1/2 inch, and you'd feel that gap rubbing on your thumb, so that is why the J-bend uses non-reverse tuning. Non-reverse tuning moves the tuning slide gap further up and out of the way of your left thumb.

I'm really excited to see how the medium bore turns out. Knowing Roy as I do, I am sure it will be fantastic.

Stay tuned.

======[/quote]

Any ETA on the medium bore? Just curious when they might be available. Thanks.
</QUOTE>
========

I think I'll have a prototype in my hands in the next couple months or so. He's still working on it. There will be no compatibility between the model 4 and the models 1, 2, or 3. It will be a stand alone .525. I will keep y'all posted, so please stay tuned.

------------

Davidus1 · by **Davidus1** » 2018-10-05 5:56 p.m.

[quote="TheSheriff"]<QUOTE author="Davidus1" post_id="68800" time="1538771795" user_id="3116">

Any ETA on the medium bore? Just curious when they might be available. Thanks.[/quote]
========

I think I'll have a prototype in my hands in the next couple months or so. He's still working on it. There will be no compatibility between the model 4 and the models 1, 2, or 3. It will be a stand alone .525. I will keep y'all posted, so please stay tuned.

------------
</QUOTE>

Thanks for the info! I'm primarily a .525 player anymore so I was happy to hear he is planning to produce one!

Davidus1 · by **Davidus1** » 2018-12-21 9:27 p.m.

[quote="TheSheriff"]<QUOTE author="Davidus1" post_id="68800" time="1538771795" user_id="3116">

Any ETA on the medium bore? Just curious when they might be available. Thanks.[/quote]
========

I think I'll have a prototype in my hands in the next couple months or so. He's still working on it. There will be no compatibility between the model 4 and the models 1, 2, or 3. It will be a stand alone .525. I will keep y'all posted, so please stay tuned.

------------
</QUOTE>

Any progress on this? Just curious if he's working on the .525 yet. I hear great things about his horns.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-12-22 9:57 a.m.

------

Just a quick update on the Lawler .525. I should have a couple of prototypes in my hands after the first of the year. One will be a bell forward design like his model 1, and the other will be a set back bell like his model 2.

I'll be sure to post my review after I've spent some time with them.

-------

Davidus1 · by **Davidus1** » 2018-12-22 11:04 a.m.

[quote="TheSheriff"]------

Just a quick update on the Lawler .525. I should have a couple of prototypes in my hands after the first of the year. One will be a bell forward design like his model 1, and the other will be a set back bell like his model 2.

I'll be sure to post my review after I've spent some time with them.

-------[/quote]

What's the difference in bell forward vs set back other than feedback to the player? Is there a difference in the sound the audience hears or just different to the player? Thanks for the update.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2018-12-22 11:21 a.m.

------

The difference is feedback to the player. Naturally, there are subtle differences between bell forward and set back bell concerning overall feel of the instrument.

------

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-01-14 9:26 a.m.

-----

Another update. The model 4 .525 bore (BigBoy) will have compatibility with the .500 and .508 models. Originally, the model 4 was going to be a stand alone model, but after much thought, Roy decided to abandon that idea. And for what it's worth, I agree.

This means the same bell flares can be used and even the hand slides can be interchanged, which may or may not provide some interesting results.

Design wise, the main difference between the model 4 and the small bores, is that the model 4 will have a larger i.d. neck pipe and taper differences. Also, the hand slide will be a bit wider than the small bore hand slides.

I should have a couple of prototypes in my hands in about 3 weeks. I'm really looking forward to the BigBoy, and I have a feeling it's going to be a big hit!

====

AndyBaker · by **AndyBaker** » 2019-01-19 7:42 p.m.

Hi all,

I ordered my new Lawler model 1 last year after playing the Sheriff's - he's always been the guy I've trusted most about gear. It arrived on Wednesday - I was so happy, I played it on my big band gig that night.

I went for the package deal - 2 bells and a case. I think these are EXTREMELY good value for custom trombones (last I checked the Shires MD was somewhere north of $3500?)

My set-up:

Model 1 - 0.25 Yellow brass stem, nickel neck pipe

.500/.508 brass slide with a nickel crook

.22 yellow 8" flare

.25 red 7.5" flare

The craftsmanship is beautiful, and the SOUND - a real jazz trombone (as I expected after my first Lawler).

Happily the gig was recorded for later broadcast and the engineer gave me a rough mix there and then. I was playing the red bell (on lead), and I'm extremely happy with the way it sounded.

I tried to upload a clip, but unfortunately I can't add the attachment...

I'm sure I'll have more thoughts as time goes on, but this is a really great trombone.

Davidus1 · by **Davidus1** » 2019-01-21 1:20 a.m.

Thanks for sharing. Glad you like the new horn. Enjoy!

[quote="AndyBaker"]Hi all,

I ordered my new Lawler model 1 last year after playing the Sheriff's - he's always been the guy I've trusted most about gear. It arrived on Wednesday - I was so happy, I played it on my big band gig that night.

I went for the package deal - 2 bells and a case. I think these are EXTREMELY good value for custom trombones (last I checked the Shires MD was somewhere north of $3500?)

My set-up:

Model 1 - 0.25 Yellow brass stem, nickel neck pipe

.500/.508 brass slide with a nickel crook

.22 yellow 8" flare

.25 red 7.5" flare

The craftsmanship is beautiful, and the SOUND - a real jazz trombone (as I expected after my first Lawler).

Happily the gig was recorded for later broadcast and the engineer gave me a rough mix there and then. I was playing the red bell (on lead), and I'm extremely happy with the way it sounded.

I tried to upload a clip, but unfortunately I can't add the attachment...

I'm sure I'll have more thoughts as time goes on, but this is a really great trombone.[/quote]

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-02-26 12:48 p.m.

[quote="TheSheriff"]-----

Another update. The model 4 .525 bore (BigBoy) will have compatibility with the .500 and .508 models. Originally, the model 4 was going to be a stand alone model, but after much thought, Roy decided to abandon that idea. And for what it's worth, I agree.

This means the same bell flares can be used and even the hand slides can be interchanged, which may or may not provide some interesting results.

Design wise, the main difference between the model 4 and the small bores, is that the model 4 will have a larger i.d. neck pipe and taper differences. Also, the hand slide will be a bit wider than the small bore hand slides.

I should have a couple of prototypes in my hands in about 3 weeks. I'm really looking forward to the BigBoy, and I have a feeling it's going to be a big hit!

====[/quote]
-----

Update: The model 4 (.525) prototype is delayed, and hopefully it will not be much longer than another 4 weeks.

That is all.

====

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2019-02-26 4:38 p.m.

Roy is busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest right now. I have been waiting on a flair for 8 weeks. Hope to have it this week. He could probably sell 2 or three times as many horns as he does if if had some help in the shop.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-02-26 5:05 p.m.

[quote="Mikebmiller"]Roy is busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest right now. I have been waiting on a flair for 8 weeks. Hope to have it this week. He could probably sell 2 or three times as many horns as he does if if had some help in the shop.[/quote]
------

Roy has a build schedule, so waiting is part of the deal. A one man shop means total control of the build process, something that he believes in, and something that I believe is worth the wait because the final product is excellent.

=====

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2019-02-28 9:16 p.m.

Big news - Roy says my flair shipped today!

jej · by **jej** » 2019-03-05 1:48 p.m.

I took delivery of my Lawler Model 1 a couple of weeks ago. Mine is a .22 yellow flare, all brass, with a .500 brass slide. Along with a .22 7.75" yellow flare and a .25 7.5" flair, I bought a .25 8.25 bronze flair that someone had ordered and ultimately not taken.

The horn blows great, and the various flares change the character quite a bit. I do find the slide just a bit noisy and wonder what other Lawler owners use as a slide lubricant. I mostly use the Yamaha stuff on every horn with great results, but wonder if the Lawler would benefit from something heavier. Or perhaps it just needs more of a breaking-in?

CornyBone · by **CornyBone** » 2019-03-05 2:03 p.m.

[quote="jej"]I mostly use the Yamaha stuff on every horn with great results, but wonder if the Lawler would benefit from something heavier. Or perhaps it just needs more of a breaking-in?[/quote]

I don't own a Lawler (next time I have a few grand, it's on the list) but it took my Shires slide about a month to break in, maybe even more. For really good slides, I always use the red-cap Slide-O-Mix stuff. It seems to keep my slides happy. I'm always a little speculative of all-in-one slide grease. I find having more control over your proportion of silicon to soap to water can help great slides become immaculate. If you want to try something heavier though, Trombotine has been the way to go for me. I use it on all my old instruments with a lot of wiggle room in the slide.

dembones · by **dembones** » 2019-03-05 4:43 p.m.

[quote="jej"]I took delivery of my Lawler Model 1 a couple of weeks ago. Mine is a .22 yellow flare, all brass, with a .500 brass slide. Along with a .22 7.75" yellow flare and a .25 7.5" flair, I bought a .25 8.25 bronze flair that someone had ordered and ultimately not taken.

The horn blows great, and the various flares change the character quite a bit. I do find the slide just a bit noisy and wonder what other Lawler owners use as a slide lubricant. I mostly use the Yamaha stuff on every horn with great results, but wonder if the Lawler would benefit from something heavier. Or perhaps it just needs more of a breaking-in?[/quote]

Congratulations on getting your Lawler. I have a couple of Lawler slides. They are fantastic - but they did take a while to break in. For the first couple of months or so, I cleaned them thoroughly a couple of times a week, using a cleaning rod and cheesecloth. You'll see some of the machining residue on the cloth especially at first. As I did this, each slide just got better and better.

As to the lube, I like the Yamasnot on them. I apply it to the outer slide - holding it almost horizontally but with the top tube on the bottom, then 2 drops into each outer tube. That way the fluid is coating what will be the top of each tube once it's being held normally. Works like a charm.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-03-05 7:56 p.m.

[quote="jej"]I took delivery of my Lawler Model 1 a couple of weeks ago. Mine is a .22 yellow flare, all brass, with a .500 brass slide. Along with a .22 7.75" yellow flare and a .25 7.5" flair, I bought a .25 8.25 bronze flair that someone had ordered and ultimately not taken.

The horn blows great, and the various flares change the character quite a bit. I do find the slide just a bit noisy and wonder what other Lawler owners use as a slide lubricant. I mostly use the Yamaha stuff on every horn with great results, but wonder if the Lawler would benefit from something heavier. Or perhaps it just needs more of a breaking-in?[/quote]
===

Wipe, clean, swab, repeat. Use what lube you have, most will work just fine, though I can't get REKA to work on my Lawler slides. Pay attention to what the slide is telling you; they have a way of doing that and no two are alike. I have a .500 and a .500./.508 dual bore and they are both great, but a bit different in the action and needs department. Special needs for special slides or some such thing.......If after 4 to 6 weeks you aren't happy give Roy a call and he'll make it right.

===

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2019-03-06 11:25 a.m.

I got mine in June and the slide is primo. I have been using SOM Rapid Comfort and I can go 4 hours or more without messing with it.

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2019-03-18 10:54 a.m.

Does anyone else have trouble with the lock nut on their Lawler not staying tight? I was playing a gig Friday night and the bell would not stay tight to the slide no matter how hard I turned the nut. Is there some low level version of locktite I could use that would keep it tight but not so tight that I can't loosen it?

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2019-03-18 11:26 a.m.

[quote="Mikebmiller"]Does anyone else have trouble with the lock nut on their Lawler not staying tight? I was playing a gig Friday night and the bell would not stay tight to the slide no matter how hard I turned the nut. Is there some low level version of locktite I could use that would keep it tight but not so tight that I can't loosen it?[/quote]

If you put a paper shim on the slide tenon can you tighten it enough? If that's the case, you need to have somebody look at how the tenon fits in the receiver. The bell nut is not intended to lock the parts together; just to maintain the friction between the parts.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-03-18 5:54 p.m.

[quote="Mikebmiller"]Does anyone else have trouble with the lock nut on their Lawler not staying tight? I was playing a gig Friday night and the bell would not stay tight to the slide no matter how hard I turned the nut. Is there some low level version of locktite I could use that would keep it tight but not so tight that I can't loosen it?[/quote]
====

The problem is the nut making contact with the lower cork barrel. His slick design can pose this minor annoyance as the parts wear in a bit. Do not bother with teflon tape. It is not a tenon issue.

Roy suggests taking a flat wide file (rat file) and filing away material from the nut. It should not be a coarse file. If you don't feel comfortable doing that, take it to a tech. Plug the neckpipe with cloth or similar and then rinse well to remove any errant filings. I had to do it on my model 1. Easy. It was only a concern with my 500 slide, but my 500/508 did not have this issue. Filing the nut will create a larger gap between the nut and the lower cork barrel when it is properly cinched down.

====

Dbone · by **Dbone** » 2019-04-29 9:15 p.m.

Sheriff,

Which is your favorite Lawler trombone and why?

johntarr · by **johntarr** » 2019-04-30 12:59 a.m.

Is anyone using the carbon fiber slide with their Lawler? This seems like an interesting setup, if it sounds right.

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2019-04-30 8:49 a.m.

[quote="TheSheriff"]<QUOTE author="Mikebmiller" post_id="80843" time="1552920859" user_id="213">
Does anyone else have trouble with the lock nut on their Lawler not staying tight? I was playing a gig Friday night and the bell would not stay tight to the slide no matter how hard I turned the nut. Is there some low level version of locktite I could use that would keep it tight but not so tight that I can't loosen it?[/quote]
====

The problem is the nut making contact with the lower cork barrel. His slick design can pose this minor annoyance as the parts wear in a bit. Do not bother with teflon tape. It is not a tenon issue.

Roy suggests taking a flat wide file (rat file) and filing away material from the nut. It should not be a coarse file. If you don't feel comfortable doing that, take it to a tech. Plug the neckpipe with cloth or similar and then rinse well to remove any errant filings. I had to do it on my model 1. Easy. It was only a concern with my 500 slide, but my 500/508 did not have this issue. Filing the nut will create a larger gap between the nut and the lower cork barrel when it is properly cinched down.

====
</QUOTE>

Thanks Sheriff. I took it to my tech yesterday after a Sunday rehearsal where I spent half my time realigning my bell and slide. I hope that simple fix works.

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2019-04-30 8:50 a.m.

[quote="johntarr"]Is anyone using the carbon fiber slide with their Lawler? This seems like an interesting setup, if it sounds right.[/quote]

I tied the CF slide when I went to Roy's place. It is ridiculously light. You barely even feel it. But I liked the nickel slide better for sound and didn't feel like spending another $400, so I went with that.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-04-30 9:13 a.m.

[quote="Dbone"]Sheriff,

Which is your favorite Lawler trombone and why?[/quote]
------

The model 3 with a 500/508 dual bore suits me best. I use a Lawler #10 leadpipe in it. It has a big open blow yet still has that quick response and beautiful center to the sound that I really like about his horns.

The bell section is entirely red brass including the j-bend, and the stem is .022 red. The slide is all yellow brass. My favorite flare is an .025 bronze 8". It has a gorgeous sound but less punchy than an all yellow bell section/stem with a nickle hand slide.

Naturally, some will prefer his other models or the model 3 with a 500 or 508 bore slide. Honestly I'm happy with all of his models, but simply prefer the model 3 for where I am at as a player at this stage of my life.

When I was much younger and a working pro playing hundreds and hundreds of gigs as a lead player, I'd probably have chosen a model 1 or model 2 with a 500 bore slide.

====

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-04-30 9:27 a.m.

[quote="johntarr"]Is anyone using the carbon fiber slide with their Lawler? This seems like an interesting setup, if it sounds right.[/quote]
------

I tried it and did not like it at all. Not my kind of sound.

====

johntarr · by **johntarr** » 2019-05-03 4:49 p.m.

Is there anybody in the Denver, Colorado metro area with a Lawler that I could try when I’m visiting family in June? I live in Sweden so having one shipped without trying wouldn’t be ideal for me.

jawbone62 · by **jawbone62** » 2019-05-05 7:15 a.m.

Do any of you Lawler enthusiasts have observations re mouthpiece choice for the small bore range?

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-05-05 8:45 a.m.

[quote="jawbone62"]Do any of you Lawler enthusiasts have observations re mouthpiece choice for the small bore range?[/quote]
------

We're all different. The usual sizes....12C, 11C, 7C, 6 3/4, 6 1/2. I tend to like cups that are more v-like such as a Stork T2.

Leadpipe choice is important too.

------

DaveAshley · by **DaveAshley** » 2019-05-05 11:49 p.m.

[quote="jawbone62"]Do any of you Lawler enthusiasts have observations re mouthpiece choice for the small bore range?[/quote]
I have found my Model 1 to be more finicky about leadpipes than mouthpieces. Like Sheriff, I use a Kanstul W6 leadpipe. The Kanstul S is a pretty good match as well. At first, I used either a Lawler 10 or a Kanstul H6, and the 3rd partial and below just wouldn't speak the way I needed it to. I even began to consider the possibility that the horn wasn't going to work for me. Once I tried the Kanstul S and W6, those concerns went away.

I must say I haven't experimented much with mouthpieces since I got the W6 leadpipe. I play on a custom-made AR Resonance mouthpiece with the shorter A.K. (Alan Kaplan) backbore. For me, the A.K. works better than the standard backbore on the Lawler.

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2019-05-09 5:02 p.m.

[quote="Mikebmiller"]<QUOTE author="TheSheriff" post_id="80896" time="1552946082" user_id="3528">

====

The problem is the nut making contact with the lower cork barrel. His slick design can pose this minor annoyance as the parts wear in a bit. Do not bother with teflon tape. It is not a tenon issue.

Roy suggests taking a flat wide file (rat file) and filing away material from the nut. It should not be a coarse file. If you don't feel comfortable doing that, take it to a tech. Plug the neckpipe with cloth or similar and then rinse well to remove any errant filings. I had to do it on my model 1. Easy. It was only a concern with my 500 slide, but my 500/508 did not have this issue. Filing the nut will create a larger gap between the nut and the lower cork barrel when it is properly cinched down.

====[/quote]

Thanks Sheriff. I took it to my tech yesterday after a Sunday rehearsal where I spent half my time realigning my bell and slide. I hope that simple fix works.
</QUOTE>

Update - I got that lock nut filed down and my horn still slips. Anything else I can try?

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-05-09 5:57 p.m.

[quote="Mikebmiller"]<QUOTE author="Mikebmiller" post_id="84079" time="1556628540" user_id="213">

Thanks Sheriff. I took it to my tech yesterday after a Sunday rehearsal where I spent half my time realigning my bell and slide. I hope that simple fix works.[/quote]

Update - I got that lock nut filed down and my horn still slips. Anything else I can try?
</QUOTE>
------

Is there a visible gap when fully tightened down? If not, then more needs to be filed. If there is a gap and it still moves on you then call Roy.

------

MahlerMusic · by **MahlerMusic** » 2019-05-09 6:33 p.m.

Figured this belonged here. Nice review and wow, nice sound.

<YOUTUBE id="ExCUIrPUMAI">~~[media]~~https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExCUIrPUMAI</YOUTUBE>

<YOUTUBE id="hk_dlh3ziP4">~~[media]~~https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk_dlh3ziP4</YOUTUBE>

<YOUTUBE id="lwYAtWUlYLg">~~[media]~~https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwYAtWUlYLg</YOUTUBE>

<YOUTUBE id="JesYucEJZOw">~~[media]~~https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JesYucEJZOw</YOUTUBE>

Badgerm · by **Badgerm** » 2019-05-10 1:18 p.m.

TheSheriff,

Did you get your Lawlers lacquered or did you leave them raw?

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2019-05-10 2:43 p.m.

[quote="TheSheriff"]<QUOTE author="Mikebmiller" post_id="84771" time="1557435749" user_id="213">

Update - I got that lock nut filed down and my horn still slips. Anything else I can try?[/quote]
------

Is there a visible gap when fully tightened down? If not, then more needs to be filed. If there is a gap and it still moves on you then call Roy.

------
</QUOTE>

Yes, there is a gap now. I guess I will email Roy and see what he says.

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2019-05-10 2:44 p.m.

[quote="Badgerm"]TheSheriff,

Did you get your Lawlers lacquered or did you leave them raw?[/quote]

Brushed finish on a Lawler is beautiful. Way better than lacquer IMHO.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-05-10 3:39 p.m.

[quote="Badgerm"]TheSheriff,

Did you get your Lawlers lacquered or did you leave them raw?[/quote]
=====

Lacquer.

=====

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-05-10 3:43 p.m.

[quote="Mikebmiller"]<QUOTE author="Badgerm" post_id="84808" time="1557508739" user_id="3718">[/quote]

Brushed finish on a Lawler is beautiful. Way better than lacquer IMHO.
</QUOTE>
------

The brushed finish is his normal finish and you choose to have it lacquered or left raw (no lacquer). Most folks choose lacquer. I have a bronze brushed flare that is raw and it developed a patina rather quickly, and happens to sound great to boot.

=====

PaulT · by **PaulT** » 2019-05-10 4:21 p.m.

This is a "can't hurt even if it is useless advice just in case tip" concerning the slide/bell slippage (and is a reiteration of BGuttman's advice)

I had bell/slide slippage issues with one my horns. When I asked the repair fellow at the shop I frequent, he explained that the nut wasn't intended to hold the two sections tight, just to provide insurance (and reassurance). He said the slide/bell interface was a tapered shaft, just like the mouthpiece/receiver interface. Fit the two sections together 180 degrees (flat) and rotate the slide to 90 degrees (or wherever it is you want it to be. The rotation will tighten the connection. If the pieces are milled right, the fit will be so secure the nut is superfluous to the hold.

I didn't know this. It solved the problem perfectly! (I had been thinking about equipping my stash bag with pliers)

If this proves to be the case in your situation, the caution is to keep your mouthpiece lessons in mind, rotate to tighten, but don't crank the sucker with so much pressure you need a crowbar to take the horn apart. Think "lightly snug", not "UMMPH %$##@ !!!".

keybone · by **keybone** » 2019-05-11 12:42 p.m.

[quote="PaulT"]When I asked the repair fellow at the shop I frequent, he explained that the nut wasn't intended to hold the two sections tight, just to provide insurance (and reassurance). He said the slide/bell interface was a tapered shaft, just like the mouthpiece/receiver interface. Fit the two sections together 180 degrees (flat) and rotate the slide to 90 degrees (or wherever it is you want it to be. The rotation will tighten the connection. If the pieces are milled right, the fit will be so secure the nut is superfluous to the hold.[/quote]

This worked perfectly. Good, snug fit! Thank you!

Question - if I tighten the bell/slide in this manner on a daily basis, will there be some wear to the connection?

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2019-05-11 12:47 p.m.

[quote="keybone"]...

Question - if I tighten the bell/slide in this manner on a daily basis, will there be some wear to the connection?[/quote]

In a sense, yes. But it will take decades for it to be enough wear that you will need to do something about it.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2019-05-11 1:13 p.m.

The "wear" would only be burnishing, causing it to fit better. No actual wear, no material lost.

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2019-05-11 4:58 p.m.

I will try that next time I have the Lawler out (tomorrow).Thanks for the suggestion.

keybone · by **keybone** » 2019-05-11 9:57 p.m.

Bruce, Doug - I probably will not be around in a few decades!

Seriously, thanks for your input.

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2019-05-12 9:50 p.m.

Big thanks guys - I tightened the nut with the bell at a 270 degree angle and then twisted it into place and made it through a whole rehearsal with not slippage. But I did miss a couple of notes. Who should I call about that?

PaulT · by **PaulT** » 2019-05-12 10:38 p.m.

Glad it worked.

I think the most common approach is to fit the two sections together, rotate to snug, then thread and tighten the nut. Without an instrument in my hands I don't know if matters a whit one way or another, but the "tell" you are looking for is the fit, feel and snugness of the two sections independent of the nut. Once the two sections are snug and secure in the proper position to each other, then the nut is threaded and tightened, functioning, for the most part, as a blessing to the union 😉

But, maybe nut first/nut last on the trombone is like sugar/no sugar on the lefse. :idea:

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-05-13 7:04 a.m.

----

I've never given this any thought probably because I've always put my horns together in this manner. The one Lawler of mine that needed the rat file treatment on the nut was done because there was no gap and the nut would make contact with the cork barrel.

I second what PaulT says. Tighten the nut after rotating the parts together. Thanks PaulT for bringing this up.

====

Dbone · by **Dbone** » 2019-07-22 8:33 a.m.

I just received my Lawler Model 1 trombone in Roy’s recommended set up: .500 bore, yellow brass stem, slide, and 8” .22 yellow bell, and a 7.5” rose brass bell.

In a word, delightful. The trombone has a wonderfully rich and full sound. I had been playing a Rath R10, yellow brass with nickel silver slide (I would now like to sell if anyone is interested), which is an excellent instrument as well. In a blinded sound test, my wife and sons liked the sound of the Lawler. Their comments: “it velvety and warm”, “it sounds smoother”, “the sound is fuller”.

In a week of playing and practicing, the Lawler does seem to have more character. I read a post from Andy Baker saying the Rath is more “pure and compact”, which I too would agree. The Lawler seems to have a classic, old fashioned jazzy sound, which I and my family seem to prefer.

Thank you to all who have posted insights into experiences with Lawler Trombones. It was a pleasure to work with Roy Lawler and Keith from Schmitt Music.

Please let me know if you are interested in the Rath R10.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-07-22 8:16 p.m.

[quote="Dbone"]I just received my Lawler Model 1 trombone in Roy’s recommended set up: .500 bore, yellow brass stem, slide, and 8” .22 yellow bell, and a 7.5” rose brass bell.

In a word, delightful. The trombone has a wonderfully rich and full sound. I had been playing a Rath R10, yellow brass with nickel silver slide (I would now like to sell if anyone is interested), which is an excellent instrument as well. In a blinded sound test, my wife and sons liked the sound of the Lawler. Their comments: “it velvety and warm”, “it sounds smoother”, “the sound is fuller”.

In a week of playing and practicing, the Lawler does seem to have more character. I read a post from Andy Baker saying the Rath is more “pure and compact”, which I too would agree. The Lawler seems to have a classic, old fashioned jazzy sound, which I and my family seem to prefer.

Thank you to all who have posted insights into experiences with Lawler Trombones. It was a pleasure to work with Roy Lawler and Keith from Schmitt Music.

Please let me know if you are interested in the Rath R10.[/quote]
=====

Thanks for the report and I'm glad you are enjoying your new Lawler.

-------

Davidus1 · by **Davidus1** » 2019-08-01 7:06 p.m.

Have the "Big Boys" started hitting the market yet? Just curious. Currently playing a .525 horn and am liking it. Very curious how the Lawlers are being received if they are being sold yet. Thanks.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-08-07 9:03 p.m.

[quote="Davidus1"]Have the "Big Boys" started hitting the market yet? Just curious. Currently playing a .525 horn and am liking it. Very curious how the Lawlers are being received if they are being sold yet. Thanks.[/quote]
====

Not yet.

------

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-08-15 11:34 a.m.

[quote="TheSheriff"]<QUOTE author="Davidus1" post_id="90930" time="1564700816" user_id="3116">
Have the "Big Boys" started hitting the market yet? Just curious. Currently playing a .525 horn and am liking it. Very curious how the Lawlers are being received if they are being sold yet. Thanks.[/quote]
====

Not yet.

------
</QUOTE>
------

Ok, there is one out there, in California, and another going to Switzerland soon.

Roy is waiting on slide tubes and the one he sent to California has slide tubes that were samples sent to him. I do not know who the owner is, but if you hang out here, give us a shout.

Roy told me his full tube order will arrive next week.

=====

salsabone · by **salsabone** » 2019-08-15 6:58 p.m.

HI All, Sorry to resurrect an old thread...MrSheriff, I too just got my Lawler model 3 fern Ken Hinson at Schmitt music at the ITF at Ball Stat univ. Ken is a great guy. FYI I got a yellow brass bell stem with the 8" yellow .025 flare and the 7 1/2" ,025 red brass flare. I bought/fell in love with the one all nickel .500/.508 slide that they had. I love nickel!! The model 3 in quite unlike any other trombone that I own(and I have about 40+ small bores of various brands!).

My question is what, if any, bags that anyone who has a Lawler with 2 flares has anyone found a bag(either slightly padded or just fabric) to replace the bubble wrap and towel system that comes with the horn?

Thanks salsabone

Kevin

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-08-16 8:17 a.m.

[quote="salsabone"]HI All, Sorry to resurrect an old thread...MrSheriff, I too just got my Lawler model 3 fern Ken Hinson at Schmitt music at the ITF at Ball Stat univ. Ken is a great guy. FYI I got a yellow brass bell stem with the 8" yellow .025 flare and the 7 1/2" ,025 red brass flare. I bought/fell in love with the one all nickel .500/.508 slide that they had. I love nickel!! The model 3 in quite unlike any other trombone that I own(and I have about 40+ small bores of various brands!).

My question is what, if any, bags that anyone who has a Lawler with 2 flares has anyone found a bag(either slightly padded or just fabric) to replace the bubble wrap and towel system that comes with the horn?

Thanks salsabone

Kevin[/quote]
=====

I'm glad you like your model 3, it's my favorite. I use a 500/508 dual bore too. I don't use a Lawler case so I can't help you there. I've never needed to bring an extra flare to a gig I just use the one I like best and put the horn in my Protec.

=====

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2019-08-16 10:35 a.m.

I got my second flare (8")a few months ago and played with it at home for a little while, then put the first one (7.5") back on and haven't touched it since. I will probably use it if I am playing something other than lead with the Lawler. I really like the nickel slide as well.

salsabone · by **salsabone** » 2019-08-16 11:32 p.m.

Thanks for the advice gentlemen!! It will take me a while to discern what flare I do like the best Or if I wish to purchase others. That is the best thing about the Lawler trombones, you can change up your sound so easily by using another flare! Where I live(northern Delaware) it seems that the defacto rehearsal night is Wednesday night. I still work at my job at DMV, and I will continue to strive to find a jazz or salsa band gig on some other night!

I do have a tool bag coming from amazon that may do the trick. I will let you all know if I have any positive outcomes!

Kevin

Badgerm · by **Badgerm** » 2019-08-17 11:38 a.m.

I’m the Californian with the Model 4.

I chose the following: .022 Red Brass stem / R2 8” flare, round bead / Z2 8” flare, round bead (raw) / Yellow Brass slide / #10 lead pipe (removable).

I’m using a Griego 5 mouthpiece (Deco / Silver).

I’m still learning the horn and will report back in a few weeks. Every time I pick it up to play, however, I’m in awe... people throw around the term “axe” when referring to their instrument. To me, this is more “Excalibur / sword-in-the-stone” status. I’ll give more detail than “I love it” in a few weeks.

Chris

Davidus1 · by **Davidus1** » 2019-08-17 4:46 p.m.

Confrats on your purchase!

[quote="Badgerm"]I’m the Californian with the Model 4.

I chose the following: .022 Red Brass stem / R2 8” flare, round bead / Z2 8” flare, round bead (raw) / Yellow Brass slide / #10 lead pipe (removable).

I’m using a Griego 5 mouthpiece (Deco / Silver).

I’m still learning the horn and will report back in a few weeks. Every time I pick it up to play, however, I’m in awe... people throw around the term “axe” when referring to their instrument. To me, this is more “Excalibur / sword-in-the-stone” status. I’ll give more detail than “I love it” in a few weeks.

Chris[/quote]

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-08-18 12:16 a.m.

[quote="Badgerm"]I’m the Californian with the Model 4.

I chose the following: .022 Red Brass stem / R2 8” flare, round bead / Z2 8” flare, round bead (raw) / Yellow Brass slide / #10 lead pipe (removable).

I’m using a Griego 5 mouthpiece (Deco / Silver).

I’m still learning the horn and will report back in a few weeks. Every time I pick it up to play, however, I’m in awe... people throw around the term “axe” when referring to their instrument. To me, this is more “Excalibur / sword-in-the-stone” status. I’ll give more detail than “I love it” in a few weeks.

Chris[/quote]
-------

Thanks for checking in!

=====

bbalika · by **bbalika** » 2019-09-03 5:17 p.m.

Do Lawlers fit well in protec and skb cases?

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-09-03 5:51 p.m.

[quote="bbalika"]Do Lawlers fit well in protec and skb cases?[/quote]
=====

Yes. Leave the flare attached and it'll fit in any standard case.

=====

johntarr · by **johntarr** » 2019-09-17 8:50 a.m.

Hello Lawler players, I’m wondering how the horn feels in the left hand. That may seem like a silly question but recently I’ve been playing my Rath R3 with the goose neck and find my hand and arm getting tired and sore.

I have an R10 but have become tired of the sound and also that certain notes, like Bb in 5th position for example, don’t speak clearly. I’m finding the R3 easier to play and like the sound better.

But, I still want something a bit more nimble for jazz and would like a warmer sound. The model 3 certainly sounds intriguing and I could also be interested in the model 4. Unfortunately I live very far away from Tennessee (in Sweden) so a visit won’t be possible. Any suggestions on a basic setup?

Many thanks for any input, John

RJMason · by **RJMason** » 2019-09-17 10:09 a.m.

Hey John,

Roy prefers the sound of an all yellow brass setup, with different flares (perhaps a red brass for solo work, or a bronze flare for more classical leaning work, or whatever suits you!)

Many people have messed with this setup though. I really like the nickel slide with the red brass bell, it’s a good combo if you’re looking for more color in the sound with a very light weight and easy to speak slide that feels sturdy and solid.

I owned an older Lawler .525 Big Boy. Yellow brass, nickel slide with yellow slide crook. Amazing sound, so round and easy to play. For me it was more of a jazz or horn section instrument.

The beauty of his horns are the removable flares which can help you hone in on a particular sound for a particular job. My favorites are: .025 yellow brass for loud brass band, street band, maybe a NOLA style lead bone sound. .025 red brass 7.5 inch, all around, jazz solo, lead big band, paired with the yellow stem. .025 Bronze for recordings and orchestral work where a smaller horn would work. I like his .022 yellow brass and red brass stems the best. I owned a .025 yellow stem for years, but it only worked well for me when I had to play very loud on a gig. I also prefer the bells to have a traditional bell bead, like a Bach, instead of the folded over bell flare edge he makes. If a flare like that dents, it’s really hard to bend it back to shape unless Roy himself fixes it on his mandrels. That would be expensive and tedious for you considering your location.

Hoping to visit Roy this fall while working in Nashville for a bit and try out some new things! He said he could make me a Big Boy in the Model 3 style, sounds wonderful!!

johntarr · by **johntarr** » 2019-09-17 3:23 p.m.

[quote="RJMason"]Hey John,

Roy prefers the sound of an all yellow brass setup, with different flares (perhaps a red brass for solo work, or a bronze flare for more classical leaning work, or whatever suits you!)

Many people have messed with this setup though. I really like the nickel slide with the red brass bell, it’s a good combo if you’re looking for more color in the sound with a very light weight and easy to speak slide that feels sturdy and solid.

.........

Hoping to visit Roy this fall while working in Nashville for a bit and try out some new things! He said he could make me a Big Boy in the Model 3 style, sounds wonderful!![/quote]

Hello RJ,

Thanks for the detailed response. I’m leaning more and more towards the 3, but that big boy with the 3 style bell sounds really intriguing.

All the best,

John

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-09-17 5:12 p.m.

[quote="johntarr"]<QUOTE author="RJMason" post_id="94063" time="1568729389" user_id="3369">
Hey John,

Roy prefers the sound of an all yellow brass setup, with different flares (perhaps a red brass for solo work, or a bronze flare for more classical leaning work, or whatever suits you!)

Many people have messed with this setup though. I really like the nickel slide with the red brass bell, it’s a good combo if you’re looking for more color in the sound with a very light weight and easy to speak slide that feels sturdy and solid.

.........

Hoping to visit Roy this fall while working in Nashville for a bit and try out some new things! He said he could make me a Big Boy in the Model 3 style, sounds wonderful!![/quote]

Hello RJ,

Thanks for the detailed response. I’m leaning more and more towards the 3, but that big boy with the 3 style bell sounds really intriguing.

All the best,

John
</QUOTE>
====

My model 3 is very well balanced and feels great in the left hand. Send Roy an email to work out details.

====

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-09-18 9:45 a.m.

[quote="johntarr"]<QUOTE author="RJMason" post_id="94063" time="1568729389" user_id="3369">
Hey John,

Roy prefers the sound of an all yellow brass setup, with different flares (perhaps a red brass for solo work, or a bronze flare for more classical leaning work, or whatever suits you!)

Many people have messed with this setup though. I really like the nickel slide with the red brass bell, it’s a good combo if you’re looking for more color in the sound with a very light weight and easy to speak slide that feels sturdy and solid.

.........

Hoping to visit Roy this fall while working in Nashville for a bit and try out some new things! He said he could make me a Big Boy in the Model 3 style, sounds wonderful!![/quote]

Hello RJ,

Thanks for the detailed response. I’m leaning more and more towards the 3, but that big boy with the 3 style bell sounds really intriguing.

All the best,

John
</QUOTE>
===

Regarding flares. I prefer the standard Lawler bead where it is folded back onto itself over a traditional rolled bead with or without a rimwire. The Lawler bead is very fast in its response and to my ear has more sparkle and immediacy than a traditional bead. Get one of each!

===

johntarr · by **johntarr** » 2019-09-21 2:37 p.m.

Now I’m wondering about the dual bore slide vs single bore for the model 3. Any thoughts or opinions? Thanks in advance, John

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-09-22 8:44 a.m.

[quote="johntarr"]Now I’m wondering about the dual bore slide vs single bore for the model 3. Any thoughts or opinions? Thanks in advance, John[/quote]
=====

I have both a 500 and 500/508 dual bore. I prefer the 500/508 dual bore. I like a more open blow. Some of my fellow trombonists prefer it with the 500.

=====

johntarr · by **johntarr** » 2019-09-23 4:03 p.m.

I have both a 500 and 500/508 dual bore. I prefer the 500/508 dual bore. I like a more open blow. Some of my fellow trombonists prefer it with the 500.

Thanks Sheriff! Also for all of your other posts with information on the Lawlers.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-09-23 6:05 p.m.

[quote="johntarr"]Hello Lawler players, I’m wondering how the horn feels in the left hand. That may seem like a silly question but recently I’ve been playing my Rath R3 with the goose neck and find my hand and arm getting tired and sore.

I have an R10 but have become tired of the sound and also that certain notes, like Bb in 5th position for example, don’t speak clearly. I’m finding the R3 easier to play and like the sound better.

But, I still want something a bit more nimble for jazz and would like a warmer sound. The model 3 certainly sounds intriguing and I could also be interested in the model 4. Unfortunately I live very far away from Tennessee (in Sweden) so a visit won’t be possible. Any suggestions on a basic setup?

Many thanks for any input, John[/quote]
====

Roy's hand slides are very light and if paired with a heavy .025 or .022 stem with a heavyish flare the east west balance, if you will, can somewhat torque the horn away from your face and cause discomfort in your left hand. It is especially noticeable if your left hand and shoulder are troublesome. To remedy this you can order the stem in lightweight .020 yellow brass. He does not advertise it on his web site but he has it.

If you prefer a heavier stem I suggest that you have him increase the weight on the inside (neckpipe side) of the bell section. I'm talking model 3 here. That means the connecting ferrule for the single solid core cross brace needs to be heavy wall and the connecting ferrule on the big (bell side) needs to be thin wall. You need to request that.

Another great choice would be a model 2 in .020 yellow brass. The connecting ferrules for both upper cross braces are thin wall and the balance is superb. For even more rearward balance on a model 2 you could request both cross braces be solid core. Please note that the distance from the end of the mouthpiece receiver to the end of the bell is 10.5" on both the model 2 and 3, which is the same as a Williams model 6. A model 1 is about 11.25".

For a model 1, I prefer to have the outside built-in counter weight made thin wall and the inside counterweight made heavy wall to prevent any torquing. But that's me, a 65 year old thousands of gigs somewhat arthritic trombone playing beast talking. The trombone isn't exactly an ergonomically friendly instrument.

A model 4 "Big Boy" made to be set back like a model 2 would be in my opinion, an outstanding choice. .020 yellow stem and everything else yellow brass too, though maybe a nickel hand slide crook. I may have to get one!

====

johntarr · by **johntarr** » 2019-09-27 5:36 p.m.

Thanks again Sheriff, for the detailed information.

I keep leaning towards a 525 bore horn so sent Mr. Lawler a message asking about the possibility of a .20 stem for the model 4.

A model 4 "Big Boy" made to be set back like a model 2 would be in my opinion, an outstanding choice. .020 yellow stem and everything else yellow brass too, though maybe a nickel hand slide crook. I may have to get one!

====

TromboneMonkey · by **TromboneMonkey** » 2019-10-05 1:35 p.m.

Hey everyone,

I've been gigging on my Lawler 3 solely for 9 months now. I have only brought my Williams 4 out once since, and promptly put it back away. The Lawler is just too easy to play for me to use anything else.

I have a lightweight 7.5" yellow flare and a heavyweight 8" red flare. I want one in between. Those of you who have tried them: what would you say the difference between a 7.75 light red and a 7.75 heavy yellow flare would be, all else being equal?

Obviously in any case it's going to be an educated guess on my part, but that's why I'm here: for education!

By the way my 3 is a .500 all yellow brass with the light weight stem. I use a seamed sterling Brassark 32h pipe (thanks MattK) in it and a Marcinkiewicz Jiggs (thanks Joe Jackson) mouthpiece in it. It's a monster in pretty much every way.

johntarr · by **johntarr** » 2019-10-06 4:28 p.m.

How is it switching horns from the set back bell to the more common bell length? Because I’ll still use my Rath R3F, I’m wondering if having a Lawler with the set back bell would be confusing in the visual relationship between the slide position the bell. Are there any other advantages to the set back bell other than player feedback? Is it easier to use a plunger, for example?

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2019-10-06 7:25 p.m.

Conn used a "set back" bell on the various Ballroom models. It was intended to make mute changes easier.

I've found it doesn't help plunger;I balance the rim on my left wrist and use my left hand to work the plunger. Bell position really doesn't make any difference.

I'm comparing a Conn 40H with a Holton 67 (Stratodyne).

TromboneMonkey · by **TromboneMonkey** » 2019-10-08 8:39 a.m.

[quote="TromboneMonkey"]

I have a lightweight 7.5" yellow flare and a heavyweight 8" red flare. I want one in between.
[/quote]

Update: I talked to Roy. He's sending me an 8" lightweight bronze flare. I'm very excited to try it.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-10-08 9:07 a.m.

[quote="TromboneMonkey"]<QUOTE author="TromboneMonkey" post_id="95390" time="1570296957" user_id="3272">

I have a lightweight 7.5" yellow flare and a heavyweight 8" red flare. I want one in between.
[/quote]

Update: I talked to Roy. He's sending me an 8" lightweight bronze flare. I'm very excited to try it.
</QUOTE>
...

His lightest bronze is a mid-weight at .022.

...

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-10-08 9:14 a.m.

[quote="johntarr"]How is it switching horns from the set back bell to the more common bell length? Because I’ll still use my Rath R3F, I’m wondering if having a Lawler with the set back bell would be confusing in the visual relationship between the slide position the bell. Are there any other advantages to the set back bell other than player feedback? Is it easier to use a plunger, for example?[/quote]
...

Close your eyes and play. Adjusting between a bell forward and a setback bell has never been a problem for me. Player feedback should not be underestimated. It is pretty dramatic as compared to a bell forward design. Overall ergonomics of the setback design are in my opinion the single best thing about the design. Great balance means overall ease of playability, including plunger playing.

...

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-10-08 9:16 a.m.

[quote="BGuttman"]Conn used a "set back" bell on the various Ballroom models. It was intended to make mute changes easier.

I've found it doesn't help plunger;I balance the rim on my left wrist and use my left hand to work the plunger. Bell position really doesn't make any difference.

I'm comparing a Conn 40H with a Holton 67 (Stratodyne).[/quote]
...

For you. We’re all different. I find plunger playing easier with a setback bell.

...

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-10-08 9:35 a.m.

...

Yesterday I ordered a model 4/SB...(Set Back) like his model 2. I Configured it to be very light. A .020 yellow stem, connecting ferrules are thinwall, main tuning slide cross brace is solid for best balance, lower cross brace is hollow, his trademark branch guard on the tuning slide bow, nickel neck pipe.

The hand slide is ultra lightweight nickel tubes with a brass end bow. He also made a skeletonized ring for flare attachment/detachment. He did this by drilling holes around the circumference. He says it looks really cool too, like a saltwater fishing reel.

I have plenty of flares to try but the first one I will try will be my 8” .020 yellow.

He’s going to send it in his new case which he says is similar to the Bonna case.

...

johntarr · by **johntarr** » 2019-10-08 10:20 a.m.

[quote="TheSheriff"]...

Yesterday I ordered a model 4/SB...(Set Back) like his model 2. I Configured it to be very light. A .020 yellow stem, connecting ferrules are thinwall, main tuning slide cross brace is solid for best balance, lower cross brace is hollow, his trademark branch guard on the tuning slide bow, nickel neck pipe.

The hand slide is ultra lightweight nickel tubes with a brass end bow. He also made a skeletonized ring for flare attachment/detachment. He did this by drilling holes around the circumference. He says it looks really cool too, like a saltwater fishing reel.

I have plenty of flares to try but the first one I will try will be my 8” .020 yellow.

He’s going to send it in his new case which he says is similar to the Bonna case.

...[/quote]
Sounds really cool! I’ve been communicating with Roy on ordering a horn. I’ve been waffling between the model 3 and model 4. I like the openness of the .525 but wonder if a smaller bore would be better for facility and endurance. I am also very interested in the J-bend. He also said he could make the model 4 with J-bend like the three, perhaps that would be the best of both worlds.

I’m curious, Sheriff, what your thoughts were on ordering the setup that you ordered. Was the .20 stem solely for weight reasons or/and for sound qualities?

Thanks again for all of your contributions,

John

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-10-08 11:13 a.m.

[quote="johntarr"]<QUOTE author="TheSheriff" post_id="95688" time="1570541709" user_id="3528">
...

Yesterday I ordered a model 4/SB...(Set Back) like his model 2. I Configured it to be very light. A .020 yellow stem, connecting ferrules are thinwall, main tuning slide cross brace is solid for best balance, lower cross brace is hollow, his trademark branch guard on the tuning slide bow, nickel neck pipe.

The hand slide is ultra lightweight nickel tubes with a brass end bow. He also made a skeletonized ring for flare attachment/detachment. He did this by drilling holes around the circumference. He says it looks really cool too, like a saltwater fishing reel.

I have plenty of flares to try but the first one I will try will be my 8” .020 yellow.

He’s going to send it in his new case which he says is similar to the Bonna case.

...[/quote]
Sounds really cool! I’ve been communicating with Roy on ordering a horn. I’ve been waffling between the model 3 and model 4. I like the openness of the .525 but wonder if a smaller bore would be better for facility and endurance. I am also very interested in the J-bend. He also said he could make the model 4 with J-bend like the three, perhaps that would be the best of both worlds.

I’m curious, Sheriff, what your thoughts were on ordering the setup that you ordered. Was the .20 stem solely for weight reasons or/and for sound qualities?

Thanks again for all of your contributions,

John
</QUOTE>
...

A model 3 with a 500/508 dual bore is nice and open, and a model 4 should be too. A j-bend model 4 would be the most open. I will be curious to try the 500 and 500/508 slides on the model 4 bell section. The model 4 bell section is identical to the other models except the neck pipe is a larger diameter, so it could make for some interesting results with the smaller bore slides.

Also, the model 4 hand slide is a tad wider than the other models.

The .020 is solely for weight reasons. I will sound like Scott Bentall no matter what trombone I play.

...

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-10-08 4:50 p.m.

[quote="TromboneMonkey"]Hey everyone,

I've been gigging on my Lawler 3 solely for 9 months now. I have only brought my Williams 4 out once since, and promptly put it back away. The Lawler is just too easy to play for me to use anything else.

I have a lightweight 7.5" yellow flare and a heavyweight 8" red flare. I want one in between. Those of you who have tried them: what would you say the difference between a 7.75 light red and a 7.75 heavy yellow flare would be, all else being equal?

Obviously in any case it's going to be an educated guess on my part, but that's why I'm here: for education!

By the way my 3 is a .500 all yellow brass with the light weight stem. I use a seamed sterling Brassark 32h pipe (thanks MattK) in it and a Marcinkiewicz Jiggs (thanks Joe Jackson) mouthpiece in it. It's a monster in pretty much every way.[/quote]
...

I’ve not tried any 7.75 flares, but I am a big fan of my 7.5” .022 red flare.

...

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-10-09 10:31 a.m.

[quote="TromboneMonkey"]Hey everyone,

I've been gigging on my Lawler 3 solely for 9 months now. I have only brought my Williams 4 out once since, and promptly put it back away. The Lawler is just too easy to play for me to use anything else.

I have a lightweight 7.5" yellow flare and a heavyweight 8" red flare. I want one in between. Those of you who have tried them: what would you say the difference between a 7.75 light red and a 7.75 heavy yellow flare would be, all else being equal?

Obviously in any case it's going to be an educated guess on my part, but that's why I'm here: for education!

By the way my 3 is a .500 all yellow brass with the light weight stem. I use a seamed sterling Brassark 32h pipe (thanks MattK) in it and a Marcinkiewicz Jiggs (thanks Joe Jackson) mouthpiece in it. It's a monster in pretty much every way.[/quote]
..

I think the difference between a .022 red flare and a .025 yellow flare will be fairly dramatic regardless of diameter. The red is a touch warmer but can get zippy when you push it, mainly because of it being .022. A .025 yellow is going to have more density to its sound and feel.

You say your stem is lightweight yellow. .020 or .022? He does not advertise the .020 yellow on his website, it has to be requested. I am pretty sure yours is .022 which is mid-weight, unless you know for sure that it is .020. I don’t mean to sound jerky but I am a bit of a stickler for accuracy in terminology because it is important to all that read this. The only lightweight he offers (.020) is yellow brass and must be requested unless he offers it up during consultation. His standard and recommended set up uses a mid-weight .022 yellow brass.

Please let us know.

Thanks..

..

TromboneMonkey · by **TromboneMonkey** » 2019-10-10 1:09 p.m.

You're right; I meant .022. I'm pleased for the correction-- I honestly didn't know a lighter one existed!

I got a .022 Bronze 8" flare. I can't really describe how it plays compared to my others in few words-- it's "harder", but still "darker", if that makes sense. I'm very excited to try it on gigs because in a practice room it's so different that I can't pin down exactly how it's going to play in a variety of situations.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-10-10 4:13 p.m.

[quote="TromboneMonkey"]You're right; I meant .022. I'm pleased for the correction-- I honestly didn't know a lighter one existed!

I got a .022 Bronze 8" flare. I can't really describe how it plays compared to my others in few words-- it's "harder", but still "darker", if that makes sense. I'm very excited to try it on gigs because in a practice room it's so different that I can't pin down exactly how it's going to play in a variety of situations.[/quote]
..

I know what you mean. I have a .025 bronze 8”, and I like it but it is hard to describe it.

..

TromboneMonkey · by **TromboneMonkey** » 2019-10-13 7:32 p.m.

Well I took my bell flares out for a spin on a 3-horn section gig.

With my horn, I had originally purchased a 7.5" .022 Yellow Brass bell. I had supplemented it with an 8" .025 Red Brass bell because I felt that I wasn't getting a 'round' enough sound. The heavier red bell was very warm and round, but I felt I was missing the higher overtones, hence my desire to find one in between.

I don't know whether it was the bell size (the Bronze bell is slightly smaller than the red, closer to 7.75" if I had to guess), the thickness but weightiness of the bronze (it's .022" but every bit as heavy as the .025" Red flare), or the material difference, but the Bronze bell sounded straight BETTER than my other two flares on my gig. The trumpet player mentioned it immediately. He said it got a "really great tone for how bright it is".

Cool! I'm gonna keep it.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-10-13 9:20 p.m.

[quote="TromboneMonkey"]Well I took my bell flares out for a spin on a 3-horn section gig.

With my horn, I had originally purchased a 7.5" .022 Yellow Brass bell. I had supplemented it with an 8" .025 Red Brass bell because I felt that I wasn't getting a 'round' enough sound. The heavier red bell was very warm and round, but I felt I was missing the higher overtones, hence my desire to find one in between.

I don't know whether it was the bell size (the Bronze bell is slightly smaller than the red, closer to 7.75" if I had to guess), the thickness but weightiness of the bronze (it's .022" but every bit as heavy as the .025" Red flare), or the material difference, but the Bronze bell sounded straight BETTER than my other two flares on my gig. The trumpet player mentioned it immediately. He said it got a "really great tone for how bright it is".

Cool! I'm gonna keep it.[/quote]
..

There ya go! Nothing like the heat of battle to suss things out.

..

bkessler · by **bkessler** » 2019-10-25 10:53 p.m.

Hi all,

New to the forum, but wanted to give you a thank you for all of these posts about Lawler trombones.

I've been wanting a new jazz horn for a while now, and after my friend reminded me about Lawlers, I found this thread and a couple of others. It was obvious from the threads that nearly everyone who tries the instruments loves them, and that Roy is a great person to deal with.

I went to my friend's place to blow on his Model 2 for a while, and was amazed at what a great horn it is. Super comfortable, plays great (and so easy to play), looks fantastic, and has so many little touches that make so much sense- the longer spit valve stem and its placement, the curved slide grip, the slick bell to slide coupling...all great touches. I was really impressed with how much the different flares changed the tone of the instrument, too. If you're reading this thread, and not sure if you'd like a Lawler trombone, I have a very strong feeling the answer will be yes. What a fabulous instrument.

I tried that horn Wednesday morning, and I went home and wrote an email to Roy right away. He got back to me super quickly with ideas/recommendations, and I talked to him again this morning by phone, at which time I ordered a horn. Roy is such an incredibly nice guy, and is very generously sending me two different slides to try out, since I was torn about what bore size to get.

Here's what I ordered:

Model 2R Standard weight red brass stem, neck pipe, main crook

Flares R2 .022 red brass 7.5”

Y2 .022 yellow brass 8”

.500 or .508” Ultra lightweight Nickel slide brass end bow (he's sending both, and I'll send one back)

Brush Lacquer/case

I'll check in again once I have the horn.

johntarr · by **johntarr** » 2019-10-26 2:07 a.m.

[quote="bkessler"]Hi all,

New to the forum, but wanted to give you a thank you for all of these posts about Lawler trombones.

I've been wanting a new jazz horn for a while now, and after my friend reminded me about Lawlers, I found this thread and a couple of others. It was obvious from the threads that nearly everyone who tries the instruments loves them, and that Roy is a great person to deal with.

I went to my friend's place to blow on his Model 2 for a while, and was amazed at what a great horn it is. Super comfortable, plays great (and so easy to play), looks fantastic, and has so many little touches that make so much sense- the longer spit valve stem and its placement, the curved slide grip, the slick bell to slide coupling...all great touches. I was really impressed with how much the different flares changed the tone of the instrument, too. If you're reading this thread, and not sure if you'd like a Lawler trombone, I have a very strong feeling the answer will be yes. What a fabulous instrument.

I tried that horn Wednesday morning, and I went home and wrote an email to Roy right away. He got back to me super quickly with ideas/recommendations, and I talked to him again this morning by phone, at which time I ordered a horn. Roy is such an incredibly nice guy, and is very generously sending me two different slides to try out, since I was torn about what bore size to get.

Here's what I ordered:

Model 2R Standard weight red brass stem, neck pipe, main crook

Flares R2 .022 red brass 7.5”

Y2 .022 yellow brass 8”

.500 or .508” Ultra lightweight Nickel slide brass end bow (he's sending both, and I'll send one back)

Brush Lacquer/case

I'll check in again once I have the horn.[/quote]

I too have ordered a horn but won’t be able to get it until the end of December when I will be visiting my parents in the USA. It was really hard deciding which size to get but I settled on a model 4 with a setback bell. The stem will be standard red brass and the slide nickel. I will order 3 flares and possibly send one back.

Now just the wait...

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-10-26 8:04 p.m.

[quote="bkessler"]Hi all,

New to the forum, but wanted to give you a thank you for all of these posts about Lawler trombones.

I've been wanting a new jazz horn for a while now, and after my friend reminded me about Lawlers, I found this thread and a couple of others. It was obvious from the threads that nearly everyone who tries the instruments loves them, and that Roy is a great person to deal with.

I went to my friend's place to blow on his Model 2 for a while, and was amazed at what a great horn it is. Super comfortable, plays great (and so easy to play), looks fantastic, and has so many little touches that make so much sense- the longer spit valve stem and its placement, the curved slide grip, the slick bell to slide coupling...all great touches. I was really impressed with how much the different flares changed the tone of the instrument, too. If you're reading this thread, and not sure if you'd like a Lawler trombone, I have a very strong feeling the answer will be yes. What a fabulous instrument.

I tried that horn Wednesday morning, and I went home and wrote an email to Roy right away. He got back to me super quickly with ideas/recommendations, and I talked to him again this morning by phone, at which time I ordered a horn. Roy is such an incredibly nice guy, and is very generously sending me two different slides to try out, since I was torn about what bore size to get.

Here's what I ordered:

Model 2R Standard weight red brass stem, neck pipe, main crook

Flares R2 .022 red brass 7.5”

Y2 .022 yellow brass 8”

.500 or .508” Ultra lightweight Nickel slide brass end bow (he's sending both, and I'll send one back)

Brush Lacquer/case

I'll check in again once I have the horn.[/quote]
..

Congratulations! They are great horns.

..

johntarr · by **johntarr** » 2019-12-12 2:25 p.m.

Has anyone else tried a model 4 yet? I’m receiving one at the end of the month and am really curious and excited.

Happy holidays to all,

John

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2019-12-12 8:04 p.m.

[quote="johntarr"]Has anyone else tried a model 4 yet? I’m receiving one at the end of the month and am really curious and excited.

Happy holidays to all,

John[/quote]
..

Yes, I ordered one, got it, played it, and immediately realized it is too big for me so I sent it back. Great horn with all of the Lawler characteristics, just too large for me. If you are a .525 kind of guy then I believe you will love it.

..

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2019-12-14 4:33 p.m.

My Lawler mod 1 with my buddy's Lawler trumpet.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/pHx58zzpAECzn8rw7

bkessler · by **bkessler** » 2020-01-07 3:19 p.m.

Hi all. I've finally had a chance to take my Model 2 for a spin, and it has absolutely lived up to my expectations. I ended up getting all Red brass in the stem/neckpipe, with a nickel silver slide/brass end bow. For flares, I got a .22 yellow brass 8" and a .25 red brass 7.5". Roy was kind enough to send me both a .508 and a .500 slide to try out. They were both fantastic slides, and while the .500 popped nicely and made switching partials even easier (this horn is soooo fluid overall), both I and the people I played blind tests for preferred my tone and palette of colors on the .508, so that's the one I kept.

I can't say enough great things about this horn. The design is fantastic, the horn is very comfortable to hold, and what a great sound. Tons of character, and between the horn itself and the different flares, the amount of variety I can get tone-color-wise is pretty remarkable. If you ever get a chance to play one of these horns, do yourself a favor and give it a try.

The only real issue I have is that my mouthpieces tend to get stuck in the lead pipe very easily. I've tried with a few different mouthpieces (Bach and Schilke), and they all seem to grab on. As long as I remember to put my fingers around the mouthpiece when I pull it out, I can usually get it out without yanking out the leadpipe too, but it's interesting that it's happening so consistently. I wrapped some plumber's tape around the top of my 11C shank so it doesn't go in as far, and that seems to help as well. I'm about to get a new mouthpiece from Doug Elliot with any luck, so maybe this problem will go away. Just curious if anyone else has run into it on their Lawlers

My horn came in one of Roy's new cases, which are also great. It's quite similar to the Marcus Bonna screwball cases, and came with backpack straps and a Protec mouthpiece pouch. I haven't decided if I feel like screwing on the bell every time I play, so I may move the horn over to my Eastman case, but having such a small case is really nice, and the balance of the horn on my back is quite comfortable. (apologies for the driveway photos...better light out there)

sungfw · by **sungfw** » 2020-01-07 7:31 p.m.

[quote="bkessler"]It's quite similar to the Marcus Bonna screwball cases[/quote]

:eek: :eek: :eek: … 😉

SwissTbone · by **SwissTbone** » 2020-01-08 1:02 a.m.

[quote="bkessler"]Hi all. I've finally had a chance to take my Model 2 for a spin, and it has absolutely lived up to my expectations. I ended up getting all Red brass in the stem/neckpipe, with a nickel silver slide/brass end bow. For flares, I got a .22 yellow brass 8" and a .25 red brass 7.5". Roy was kind enough to send me both a .508 and a .500 slide to try out. They were both fantastic slides, and while the .500 popped nicely and made switching partials even easier (this horn is soooo fluid overall), both I and the people I played blind tests for preferred my tone and palette of colors on the .508, so that's the one I kept.

I can't say enough great things about this horn. The design is fantastic, the horn is very comfortable to hold, and what a great sound. Tons of character, and between the horn itself and the different flares, the amount of variety I can get tone-color-wise is pretty remarkable. If you ever get a chance to play one of these horns, do yourself a favor and give it a try.

The only real issue I have is that my mouthpieces tend to get stuck in the lead pipe very easily. I've tried with a few different mouthpieces (Bach and Schilke), and they all seem to grab on. As long as I remember to put my fingers around the mouthpiece when I pull it out, I can usually get it out without yanking out the leadpipe too, but it's interesting that it's happening so consistently. I wrapped some plumber's tape around the top of my 11C shank so it doesn't go in as far, and that seems to help as well. I'm about to get a new mouthpiece from Doug Elliot with any luck, so maybe this problem will go away. Just curious if anyone else has run into it on their Lawlers

My horn came in one of Roy's new cases, which are also great. It's quite similar to the Marcus Bonna screwball cases, and came with backpack straps and a Protec mouthpiece pouch. I haven't decided if I feel like screwing on the bell every time I play, so I may move the horn over to my Eastman case, but having such a small case is really nice, and the balance of the horn on my back is quite comfortable. (apologies for the driveway photos...better light out there)[/quote]

Any ideas who makes these cases?

bkessler · by **bkessler** » 2020-01-08 10:41 a.m.

[quote="sungfw"]<QUOTE author="bkessler" post_id="101722" time="1578428363" user_id="7923">
It's quite similar to the Marcus Bonna screwball cases[/quote]

:eek: :eek: :eek: … 😉
</QUOTE>

Oops! :lol:

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2020-01-08 7:52 p.m.

..

bkessler, congratulations on your new Lawler model 2. They are great trombones.

..

johntarr · by **johntarr** » 2020-01-16 1:51 a.m.

[quote="bkessler"]Hi all. I've finally had a chance to take my Model 2 for a spin, and it has absolutely lived up to my expectations. I ended up getting all Red brass in the stem/neckpipe, with a nickel silver slide/brass end bow. For flares, I got a .22 yellow brass 8" and a .25 red brass 7.5". Roy was kind enough to send me both a .508 and a .500 slide to try out. They were both fantastic slides, and while the .500 popped nicely and made switching partials even easier (this horn is soooo fluid overall), both I and the people I played blind tests for preferred my tone and palette of colors on the .508, so that's the one I kept.

I can't say enough great things about this horn. The design is fantastic, the horn is very comfortable to hold, and what a great sound. Tons of character, and between the horn itself and the different flares, the amount of variety I can get tone-color-wise is pretty remarkable. If you ever get a chance to play one of these horns, do yourself a favor and give it a try.

The only real issue I have is that my mouthpieces tend to get stuck in the lead pipe very easily. I've tried with a few different mouthpieces (Bach and Schilke), and they all seem to grab on. As long as I remember to put my fingers around the mouthpiece when I pull it out, I can usually get it out without yanking out the leadpipe too, but it's interesting that it's happening so consistently. I wrapped some plumber's tape around the top of my 11C shank so it doesn't go in as far, and that seems to help as well. I'm about to get a new mouthpiece from Doug Elliot with any luck, so maybe this problem will go away. Just curious if anyone else has run into it on their Lawlers

My horn came in one of Roy's new cases, which are also great. It's quite similar to the Marcus Bonna screwball cases, and came with backpack straps and a Protec mouthpiece pouch. I haven't decided if I feel like screwing on the bell every time I play, so I may move the horn over to my Eastman case, but having such a small case is really nice, and the balance of the horn on my back is quite comfortable. (apologies for the driveway photos...better light out there)[/quote]

Having recently become a very satisfied owner of a model 4, I can understand your enthusiasm. At the same time I received the horn, I started using Doug Elliott mouthpieces and the two shanks I tried fit perfectly in the Lawler. I suspect one of the reasons I find the Lawler so easy to play is because of Doug’s help with getting me a proper set up.

The case is pretty well made, not quite the quality of a Marcus Bonna case but certainly very good. I took it on the flight back and it fit very easily in the overhead compartment. It’s also a relief not to worry about the horn while others are stuffing the carry ons next to the case. The only disadvantage to the case that I can think of is that it could be mistaken for a viola so I might be the brunt of some viola jokes. And then when they find out it’s really a trombone, the trombone jokes.

TheSheriff · by **TheSheriff** » 2020-01-16 7:21 a.m.

[quote="johntarr"]The only disadvantage to the case that I can think of is that it could be mistaken for a viola so I might be the brunt of some viola jokes. And then when they find out it’s really a trombone, the trombone jokes.[/quote]
..

Very good, John. I pretty much thought the same thing when I got my case.

..

johntarr · by **johntarr** » 2020-01-16 3:45 p.m.

[quote="TheSheriff"]<QUOTE author="johntarr" post_id="102529" time="1579157467" user_id="3233">
The only disadvantage to the case that I can think of is that it could be mistaken for a viola so I might be the brunt of some viola jokes. And then when they find out it’s really a trombone, the trombone jokes.[/quote]
..

Very good, John. I pretty much thought the same thing when I got my case.

..
</QUOTE>

There may be an upside to this situation, however. If the airlines think it’s a violin or viola, then they might be less adamant about checking it. When I was bring ing back a viola for my wife last summer (no joke), one of the ticket checkers said it was too big to carry on and would have to be checked. I responded by saying that it was a very valuable instrument (partly true) and that it would be destroyed if I couldn’t carry it on. She referred me to her superior who politely acquiesced.

keybone · by **keybone** » 2020-01-16 6:53 p.m.

What is the length of the new case. I haven’t taken my ‘old’ (18 months!) Lawler case on a plane, but if there is an issue, it would be the length.

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2020-01-16 11:02 p.m.

Anyone know the price on the new case?

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2020-01-16 11:02 p.m.

Anyone know the price on the new case?

DaveAshley · by **DaveAshley** » 2020-01-17 12:01 a.m.

I’ve ordered a Model 3 stem from Roy.

I haven’t tried one, but have no doubt that I’ll be happy with it.

.022 raw yellow brass with the single heavy ferrule to help to balance against my slide, which has the original, heavier tubes.

I’ve been on a ship gig since September. We play a LOT, so I brought an XO Fedchock Model (since it’s much lighter than my .025 Model 1.) I sure do miss the Lawler! It outplays the XO in every possible way, and don’t even get me started about the sound. Think Toyota 4 cylinder vs Lamborghini V10...

johntarr · by **johntarr** » 2020-01-17 3:19 a.m.

[quote="keybone"]What is the length of the new case. I haven’t taken my ‘old’ (18 months!) Lawler case on a plane, but if there is an issue, it would be the length.[/quote]

Mine is 86cm or 33 1/2” long, which is technically too long but I’ve taken longer cases on board. The Lawler case is very unobtrusive and looks like a viola case so most airlines will let you take it on. Of course it helps not to have another big bag with you, imho.

johntarr · by **johntarr** » 2020-01-17 3:20 a.m.

[quote="Mikebmiller"]Anyone know the price on the new case?[/quote]

That would be a question for Mr. Lawler. :clever:

keybone · by **keybone** » 2020-01-17 11:48 a.m.

Thank you, johntarr. My ‘old’ case is about 38” long.

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2020-01-17 2:59 p.m.

[quote="johntarr"]<QUOTE author="Mikebmiller" post_id="102597" time="1579233776" user_id="213">
Anyone know the price on the new case?[/quote]

That would be a question for Mr. Lawler. :clever:
</QUOTE>

It's not listed on the web site. Just wondering if anyone knew.

johntarr · by **johntarr** » 2020-01-17 4:39 p.m.

[quote="DaveAshley"]I’ve ordered a Model 3 stem from Roy.

I haven’t tried one, but have no doubt that I’ll be happy with it.

.022 raw yellow brass with the single heavy ferrule to help to balance against my slide, which has the original, heavier tubes.

I’ve been on a ship gig since September. We play a LOT, so I brought an XO Fedchock Model (since it’s much lighter than my .025 Model 1.) I sure do miss the Lawler! It outplays the XO in every possible way, and don’t even get me started about the sound. Think Toyota 4 cylinder vs Lamborghini V10...[/quote]
When I was deciding which model to order, I waffled back and forth between the 3 and 4. I settled on the 4 because I like the feel of a .525 bore. While waiting for delivery, I sometimes wondered if I’d made the right decision because I was afraid the 4 would be too big. Fortunately, I stuck with my decision and am completely happy with the 4. If I were playing a lot of lead, salsa and/or horn lines, I’d definitely want a smaller model. Someday I hope to try a model 3. Good luck with your’s.

johntarr · by **johntarr** » 2020-01-17 4:41 p.m.

[quote="Mikebmiller"]<QUOTE author="johntarr" post_id="102611" time="1579249240" user_id="3233">

That would be a question for Mr. Lawler. :clever:[/quote]

It's not listed on the web site. Just wondering if anyone knew.
</QUOTE>

My guess is that he’s only selling them with the horns and not separately, but if you bought a horn before the new case was out, maybe they’d be available.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2020-01-17 5:27 p.m.

Those cases are from Slidebone. He's supposed to be getting more in soon.

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2020-01-18 1:58 p.m.

Roy says $300 and only sold to people who bought one of his horns.

DaveAshley · by **DaveAshley** » 2020-01-19 2:20 a.m.

I’m fine with the old soft case! It’s teeny-tiny, and I’ve never had any issue with it.

I’ve actually never taken the hard case out of my house, but will probably take it if I ever go on tour again.

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2020-01-19 4:47 p.m.

I got one of those and have used it exactly once. There is no room for anything except the horn. Not even a mouthpiece.

bkessler · by **bkessler** » 2020-02-24 11:48 p.m.

Question for folks who have had their Lawler trombones for quite a while: any issues with the threading on either the flares or the stems? One of my section-mates is a plumber, and was wondering if I lubricated the flares or stem, and expressed concern that I hadn't even considered it. Since I'm regularly screwing and unscrewing the flares at this point, should I be using some Hetman 10 or something? Or maybe move the horn to a regular case, only taking off the flare when I need a different one?

FullPedalTrombonist · by **FullPedalTrombonist** » 2020-02-24 11:59 p.m.

[quote="bkessler"]Question for folks who have had their Lawler trombones for quite a while: any issues with the threading on either the flares or the stems? One of my section-mates is a plumber, and was wondering if I lubricated the flares or stem, and expressed concern that I hadn't even considered it. Since I'm regularly screwing and unscrewing the flares at this point, should I be using some Hetman 10 or something? Or maybe move the horn to a regular case, only taking off the flare when I need a different one?[/quote]

I have a screw bell that’s older than me. Since coming into ownership of it I use spindle oil on the threads when I clean and re-lube my slide. I don’t expect there to be any issues with my bell or the collars Lawler uses, but “better safe than sorry” is a pretty good mantra to live by with maintenance.

Burgerbob · by **Burgerbob** » 2020-02-25 1:59 a.m.

I do lube my screwbell (not a Lawler), both so it doesn't squeak (which it does, very loudly) and so it's just easier to get together and apart.

JerryY · by **JerryY** » 2020-02-25 7:49 a.m.

I asked Roy about this when I bought my horn this past month, he stated the collar is Phosphor bronze and requires no lubrication.

Mikebmiller · by **Mikebmiller** » 2020-02-27 2:20 p.m.

Well now I have a new issue with my Lawler. Instead of having trouble getting the slide/bell connection to stay tight, now I am having a hard time getting it loose sometimes. I had to take a pair of pliers to it the other day (with a soft cloth inside) to get the nut loose. But I still love it. I am playing an Arthur Pryor solo on it with my community band in a few weeks.

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