eBay list Earl Williams antique horn BEWARE !
- Jnoxon
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Apr 09, 2018
This listing is almost close to false advertising. This guy lists it as a model 4?, it is not a 4! It may be a .490 bore but it ends there. The horn is a late 30’s, it has an”M” above the serial number. Which used to mean medium. I don’t know how or where the bore was measured.
He sez found it hanging in Basement for the last 60 years. It looks like a money grab to me. IMHO it might be worth about $850, but not more. It only has a 7” bell not 7.5” like a modern 4 would be. I’ve seen horns from that era “M” was medium .500 bore, “L” was a .520, “S” was small and anywhere from .465 to .490.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254611720832
He sez found it hanging in Basement for the last 60 years. It looks like a money grab to me. IMHO it might be worth about $850, but not more. It only has a 7” bell not 7.5” like a modern 4 would be. I’ve seen horns from that era “M” was medium .500 bore, “L” was a .520, “S” was small and anywhere from .465 to .490.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254611720832
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
What's with that spit valve? I'm sure Earl didn't do that. Looks to be in good shape but the price is ridiculous.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I've put this in my "Watch List" just to see what happens. As P. T. Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute!"
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Doug Elliott"]What's with that spit valve? I'm sure Earl didn't do that. Looks to be in good shape but the price is ridiculous.[/quote]
That's a standard water key for that era of Williams, but some bent it back on itself.
Those early Williams trombones usually don't command the same kind of money as the later "number" models.
That's a standard water key for that era of Williams, but some bent it back on itself.
Those early Williams trombones usually don't command the same kind of money as the later "number" models.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
I know... I have a pre-4 exactly like that one.
I think I had it with me at the ITF in Redlands.. maybe you saw it.
I think I had it with me at the ITF in Redlands.. maybe you saw it.
- saxophyte
- Posts: 3
- Joined: May 18, 2020
Its mine ,I dont see where its posted as a 4 it has a 4 and a question mark.Yes the bell is 7" just like in my post.and yes the inside of the stocking measures .490 ,and if you would look harder Im looking for an offer not trying to sell it for $4000
- WGWTR180
- Posts: 2152
- Joined: Sep 04, 2019
Ahhh now it's ended. I was going to pay $4000 for it. Shoot.....
Annnnd I just clicked on the username and much to my surprise there was "an error" and feedback could not be shown for the seller.
Annnnd I just clicked on the username and much to my surprise there was "an error" and feedback could not be shown for the seller.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
From eBay:
"Unfortunately this seller is not able to respond to your question. We suggest reviewing the item again to see if your answer is in the seller's listing."
"Unfortunately this seller is not able to respond to your question. We suggest reviewing the item again to see if your answer is in the seller's listing."
- Elow
- Posts: 1924
- Joined: Mar 02, 2020
[quote="Posaunus"]From eBay:
"Unfortunately this seller is not able to respond to your question. We suggest reviewing the item again to see if your answer is in the seller's listing."[/quote]
I messaged the seller asking about stallings just a few hours ago. Not sure what happened
"Unfortunately this seller is not able to respond to your question. We suggest reviewing the item again to see if your answer is in the seller's listing."[/quote]
I messaged the seller asking about stallings just a few hours ago. Not sure what happened
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
The "Vintage Earl Williams ..." has been relisted. Same "Buy It Now" price of $4,199.99.
I tried a lower (but reasonable) offer, and received this response:
[color=#4000FF]Increase your offer
The seller will be more likely to respond if your offer is around $3,149.99
Good luck! :roll:
I tried a lower (but reasonable) offer, and received this response:
The seller will be more likely to respond if your offer is around $3,149.99
Good luck! :roll:
- Elow
- Posts: 1924
- Joined: Mar 02, 2020
[quote="Posaunus"]The "Vintage Earl Williams ..." has been relisted. Same "Buy It Now" price of $4,199.99.
I tried a lower (but reasonable) offer, and received this response:
[color=#4000FF]Increase your offer
The seller will be more likely to respond if your offer is around $3,149.99
Good luck! :roll:[/quote]
I think that’s just ebays system to try and get higher offers. I offered well bellow what they suggested and the buyer accepted on some items.
I tried a lower (but reasonable) offer, and received this response:
The seller will be more likely to respond if your offer is around $3,149.99
Good luck! :roll:[/quote]
I think that’s just ebays system to try and get higher offers. I offered well bellow what they suggested and the buyer accepted on some items.
- saxophyte
- Posts: 3
- Joined: May 18, 2020
No offer from posaunus came through ,I have 100% positive feedback on over 10000 transactions,and I have sent picture of the stocking to the person who requested them.The increase your offer and and other comments on questions are from ebay and not from me.
- WGWTR180
- Posts: 2152
- Joined: Sep 04, 2019
[quote="saxophyte"]No offer from posaunus came through ,I have 100% positive feedback on over 10000 transactions,and I have sent picture of the stocking to the person who requested them.The increase your offer and and other comments on questions are from ebay and not from me.[/quote]
I clicked on the eBay link and basically you don't exist. Item had been removed and your feedback was not available.
I clicked on the eBay link and basically you don't exist. Item had been removed and your feedback was not available.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="WGWTR180"]I clicked on the eBay link and basically you don't exist. Item had been removed and your feedback was not available.[/quote]
?
Was that the original listing or the relist?
I'm looking at the original listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254611720832
I can see the seller's feedback (which is quite good - 260 positives, 1 neutral, and no negatives in the last 12 months) and other items being offered just fine.
https://www.ebay.com/str/ilovebadgirls
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_prof ... vebadgirls">https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_profile/ilovebadgirls</LINK_TEXT>
Did anyone notice if the relisting was the same seller? Wouldn't be the first time someone cloned a listing for a Williams trombone.
?
Was that the original listing or the relist?
I'm looking at the original listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/254611720832
I can see the seller's feedback (which is quite good - 260 positives, 1 neutral, and no negatives in the last 12 months) and other items being offered just fine.
https://www.ebay.com/str/ilovebadgirls
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_prof ... vebadgirls">https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_profile/ilovebadgirls</LINK_TEXT>
Did anyone notice if the relisting was the same seller? Wouldn't be the first time someone cloned a listing for a Williams trombone.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Same seller on eBay relisting - "ilovebadgirls" - who is "saxophyte" on TromboneChat.
I never completed the submission of my offer because eBay warned me in advance that it was too low.
If "ilovebadgirls" really wants to sell this trombone, perhaps he should lower the price to a realistic level.
Or perhaps he will find a buyer who is in love with the Williams legend. :idk:
I never completed the submission of my offer because eBay warned me in advance that it was too low.
If "ilovebadgirls" really wants to sell this trombone, perhaps he should lower the price to a realistic level.
Or perhaps he will find a buyer who is in love with the Williams legend. :idk:
- mrdeacon
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: May 08, 2018
[quote="Posaunus"]Same seller on eBay relisting - "ilovebadgirls" - who is "saxophyte" on TromboneChat.
I never completed the submission of my offer because eBay warned me in advance that it was too low.
If "ilovebadgirls" really wants to sell this trombone, perhaps he should lower the price to a realistic level.
Or perhaps he will find a buyer who is in love with the Williams legend. :idk:[/quote]
Yeah... I didn't think anything was really fishy about this before but I'm pretty sketched out now. :shock:
I never completed the submission of my offer because eBay warned me in advance that it was too low.
If "ilovebadgirls" really wants to sell this trombone, perhaps he should lower the price to a realistic level.
Or perhaps he will find a buyer who is in love with the Williams legend. :idk:[/quote]
Yeah... I didn't think anything was really fishy about this before but I'm pretty sketched out now. :shock:
- saxophyte
- Posts: 3
- Joined: May 18, 2020
Sold ,paid and shipped this morning.
I have never seen a group of haters like you people.
I have never seen a group of haters like you people.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="saxophyte"]Sold ,paid and shipped this morning.
I have never seen a group of haters like you people.[/quote]
Congratulations. No hate here - interested in the trombone, just thought your price was too high. Others were confused about the apparent difficulty sending you messages or offers via eBay. My offer was essentially rejected before I submitted it.
I have never seen a group of haters like you people.[/quote]
Congratulations. No hate here - interested in the trombone, just thought your price was too high. Others were confused about the apparent difficulty sending you messages or offers via eBay. My offer was essentially rejected before I submitted it.
- WGWTR180
- Posts: 2152
- Joined: Sep 04, 2019
I love the "you people" part. Where have I heard that before?
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
Didn’t realize that if sellers don’t ship to Hawaii that their items won’t appear in the search function.
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
He said model 4 with a question mark. To me that makes it obvious he doesn't know that it's a model 4, but is taking a guess. So what? He accurately stated the bore and the bell diameter. Looks like an early Williams spit valve that somebody bent. They did have little knobs on the end like that. He has 100% positive feedback, and no, his rating is not "hidden". And this isn't the first time a seller got attacked on here because of a perception that the asking price was too high. The seller has every right to ask whatever price he feels like. It's fine to comment that you you don't think it's worth what the seller is asking, but it's not nice to falsely claim that he's doing something shady.
- greenbean
- Posts: 1958
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I have bought a few horns off this guy over the years. He is fine.
- FOSSIL
- Posts: 688
- Joined: Jul 09, 2019
I suppose that with instruments as rare and valuable as Williams, examples do find themselves misrepresented at times. If that misrepresentation is deliberate and designed to inflate valve, it is dishonesty verging on fraud.
That may have happened in the past, but it looks to me that this seller was trying his best to represent the instrument fairly and has come in for some pretty harsh treatment here.
Plenty of people think their instrument is worth more than the market thinks....it's not a crime.
We should be careful how we judge others.
Chris
That may have happened in the past, but it looks to me that this seller was trying his best to represent the instrument fairly and has come in for some pretty harsh treatment here.
Plenty of people think their instrument is worth more than the market thinks....it's not a crime.
We should be careful how we judge others.
Chris
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="FOSSIL"]
Plenty of people think their instrument is worth more than the market thinks....it's not a crime.
We should be careful how we judge others.
Chris[/quote]
:good:
Plenty of people think their instrument is worth more than the market thinks....it's not a crime.
We should be careful how we judge others.
Chris[/quote]
:good:
- DougHulme
- Posts: 558
- Joined: Apr 27, 2018
And anything is only ever worth what someone is willing to pay. Sometimes its more sometimes its less the buyer in the end sets the price, not the seller (unless he's making a bargain available). I see this guy sold his horn so he was right and the critics were wrong. I agree with Chris, I think he got pretty harsh treatment here.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="DougHulme"]I see this guy sold his horn so he was right and the critics were wrong.[/quote]
Ah, but how much did it sell for? I doubt if it was the $4,000+ that was being asked.
Ah, but how much did it sell for? I doubt if it was the $4,000+ that was being asked.
- brassmedic
- Posts: 1447
- Joined: Dec 14, 2018
[quote="JohnL"]<QUOTE author="DougHulme" post_id="117365" time="1592870215" user_id="3157">I see this guy sold his horn so he was right and the critics were wrong.[/quote]
Ah, but how much did it sell for? I doubt if it was the $4,000+ that was being asked.
</QUOTE>
I believe the seller said he wasn't necessarily looking to get $4,000, but was trying to generate offers. Why is it an issue for you that he didn't get his full asking price? Giving a listing price and saying, "or best offer" has always been a very standard way of selling an item. Ebay offers and encourages buyers to use this method. Items are listed this way here on the classifieds too. Do you have a problem with it?
Ah, but how much did it sell for? I doubt if it was the $4,000+ that was being asked.
</QUOTE>
I believe the seller said he wasn't necessarily looking to get $4,000, but was trying to generate offers. Why is it an issue for you that he didn't get his full asking price? Giving a listing price and saying, "or best offer" has always been a very standard way of selling an item. Ebay offers and encourages buyers to use this method. Items are listed this way here on the classifieds too. Do you have a problem with it?
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="brassmedic"]Why is it an issue for you that he didn't get his full asking price?[/quote]
An issue? No, just a point of curiosity. This trombone looks to have been made not long after the dissolution of the Earl Williams/Spike Wallace partnership; horns from that period usually don't command the same kind of price as the later numbered models. If people will now pay in the $4,000 range for one, that could indicate a notable shift in the market; in the past they've usually gone for less than $1,000.
Of course, there's not that many Williams trombones of any sort changing hands, so the market tends to be unpredictable.
An issue? No, just a point of curiosity. This trombone looks to have been made not long after the dissolution of the Earl Williams/Spike Wallace partnership; horns from that period usually don't command the same kind of price as the later numbered models. If people will now pay in the $4,000 range for one, that could indicate a notable shift in the market; in the past they've usually gone for less than $1,000.
Of course, there's not that many Williams trombones of any sort changing hands, so the market tends to be unpredictable.