Edwards CR-E vs AR valves

MTbassbone · by **MTbassbone** » 2020-06-07 9:03 p.m.

Anyone have any experience with these? I have played the CR-E, but have not seen the AR in the wild. Is it essentially the Rotex valve with some tweaks or is it something else entirely. Seemed like they abruptly stopped making horns with Rotes valves. Anyone know the skinny on all of this? What is the difference between the CR-E and the AR valve?

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2020-06-07 10:14 p.m.

Best thing to do would be to email Edwards, though they are likely not going to share the "secret sauce" with you. It was strange from the get go when the T-396A used rotax valves, when Edwards are MORE than capable of developing their own valve designs. This way they can get exactly what they want at less cost.

ZacharyThornton · by **ZacharyThornton** » 2020-06-08 1:20 a.m.

Very different valves. Also the AR is very different from a rotax. Crazy apparent on the basses. One way that you can see the different is the CRE is kinda like a dual radius bend on the air and the AR is a single radius. Wait until everyone is up and going again... the new AR valves action is the best on the market.

MTbassbone · by **MTbassbone** » 2020-06-08 11:41 a.m.

[quote="ZacharyThornton"]Very different valves. Also the AR is very different from a rotax. Crazy apparent on the basses. One way that you can see the different is the CRE is kinda like a dual radius bend on the air and the AR is a single radius. Wait until everyone is up and going again... the new AR valves action is the best on the market.[/quote]

Zach or anyone else have pics to demonstrate what you are talking about? What is the difference in feel?

Anonymous · by **Anonymous** » 2020-06-08 11:45 a.m.

[quote="MTbassbone"]Anyone have any experience with these? I have played the CR-E, but have not seen the AR in the wild. Is it essentially the Rotex valve with some tweaks or is it something else entirely. Seemed like they abruptly stopped making horns with Rotes valves. Anyone know the skinny on all of this? What is the difference between the CR-E and the AR valve?[/quote]

My Alessi horn has an AR valve, because it was made during the transition period between the T396-A and the T396-AR. The AR valve feels 90% as open as the open horn, but it has justtt the right amount of articulation clarity so articulations aren't hard to do.

ZacharyThornton · by **ZacharyThornton** » 2020-06-12 12:44 p.m.

I do not have any demos of it. We were planning on doing some things like that before we shut down. I am still on furlough or I would try and take some photos. Sorry I can’t help more!

CalgaryTbone · by **CalgaryTbone** » 2020-06-13 5:04 p.m.

Zach - just wondering - will they start making the new AR valve available in the detachable format, so that i's an option for the other horns in Edwards catalog? It would be interesting to be able to try an open playing rotary valve against the thayer while keeping a favorite bell/slide.

Jim Scott

ZacharyThornton · by **ZacharyThornton** » 2020-06-14 12:42 a.m.

[quote="CalgaryTbone"]Zach - just wondering - will they start making the new AR valve available in the detachable format, so that i's an option for the other horns in Edwards catalog? It would be interesting to be able to try an open playing rotary valve against the thayer while keeping a favorite bell/slide.

Jim Scott[/quote]
Last time I talked to Christan about it he said no he had no intentions on making that an option.

CalgaryTbone · by **CalgaryTbone** » 2020-06-14 1:46 p.m.

Thanks for the reply - too bad to hear that though.

BurckhardtS · by **BurckhardtS** » 2020-06-14 2:29 p.m.

If you bought a bell section, a good tech could probably convert it into a modular set fairly easily. Benn Hansson offered to do this for me before I ended up buying my Shires.

CalgaryTbone · by **CalgaryTbone** » 2020-06-14 5:37 p.m.

Yeah, but that's a big expense to just be able to find out if the new valve section is an improvement to my existing set-up. I guess Edwards knows what's the best business decision for them when it comes to what choices they offer, but it would be nice to be able to test all of the various valves with variety of bells. Anyway, it doesn't look like it will happen, so never mind.

ZacharyThornton · by **ZacharyThornton** » 2020-06-15 6:24 p.m.

The AR valves where designed for those horns in mind. It would not be a simple plug and play. Maybe you do just make a valve section that fits but how does it sound? Maybe it has been tried? The decision to make the AR horns non modular had to have a reason. I don’t speak as an Edwards expert... I only started in January and was furloughed a few months later. So I know there is a reason. Making great horns is the point and every decision is thought through.

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2020-06-15 6:44 p.m.

People always seem to think that if a valve is "newer" that it must be "better" or something along those lines. Valve design really hasn't changed much for rotary valves, and if you read the writeups on both, the CR-E valve came from the Custom Reserve designs, which are a great valve. They then tweaked it for the modular setup and that exact format.

The AR Artist Rotors were designed specifically for use in the "artist series" horns, which are also non-modular and have a lot of aspects you don't see in the modular horns.

I do find it somewhat maddening when companies and individuals put a lot of time into R&D to tweak something to make it right in a specific setting, and then question them about it.

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Edwards CR-E vs AR valves