Does anyone know where to buy (or have for sale) the Lindberg valve heavy valve caps?

thanks!

• What is the effect of changing valve caps on a Conn 88CL trombone?

• Is the effect obvious / dramatic, or subtle?

• Do most players alternate between the two caps, or pick one and stick with it?

[quote="Posaunus"]• What is the effect of changing valve caps on a Conn 88CL trombone?

• Is the effect obvious / dramatic, or subtle?

• Do most players alternate between the two caps, or pick one and stick with it?[/quote]

I think it’s about the same different as a bach regular mouthpiece and a megatone. But i could be wrong

<LINK_TEXT text="https://parts.conn-selmer.com/products/ ... tm33647ela">https://parts.conn-selmer.com/products/part/16147/tm33647ela</LINK_TEXT>

I believe anyone can order these (I was able to get all the way to the payment info screen), but you may need to have a tech with an account order it for you.

[quote="Elow"]<QUOTE author="Posaunus" post_id="117654" time="1593141462" user_id="158">
• What is the effect of changing valve caps on a Conn 88CL trombone?

• Is the effect obvious / dramatic, or subtle?

• Do most players alternate between the two caps, or pick one and stick with it?[/quote]

I think it’s about the same different as a bach regular mouthpiece and a megatone. But i could be wrong
</QUOTE>

Elow, it's not the same thing.

Posaunus, the effect is pretty substantial on the horn. It's like changing pillars on a 396A. Trumpet players do this a lot with their valve caps. When I played this horn, I used the light weight cap ... never. After playing both for a few weeks, the heavy cap went on and never came off again. The lightweight cap sounds nice, and the whole horn really zings, but I preferred the focus and better slotting I found I could get with the heavier cap. Can't speak for others' experiences.

[quote="harrisonreed"]Posaunus, the effect is pretty substantial on the horn. It's like changing pillars on a 396A. Trumpet players do this a lot with their valve caps. When I played this horn, I used the light weight cap ... never. After playing both for a few weeks, the heavy cap went on and never came off again. The lightweight cap sounds nice, and the whole horn really zings, but I preferred the focus and better slotting I found I could get with the heavier cap. Can't speak for others' experiences.[/quote]

Thanks Harrison. Your experience is convincing – the cap weight does matter. It surprises me that a valve cap, outside the airflow path, makes such a difference in sound. I guess it's extra mass in a strategic place.

Do you have any idea which cap Christian Lindberg uses / whether he switches caps?

[quote="harrisonreed"]<LINK_TEXT text="https://parts.conn-selmer.com/products/ ... tm33647ela">https://parts.conn-selmer.com/products/part/16147/tm33647ela</LINK_TEXT>

I believe anyone can order these (I was able to get all the way to the payment info screen), but you may need to have a tech with an account order it for you.[/quote]

awesome- thank you for posting this, Harrison!

mine's a prototype and just has a really light aluminum cap, even the light one is probably heavier!

agreed about the effects of adding mass in specific spots so I'm interested to mess with one.

[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="117659" time="1593144648" user_id="3642">
Posaunus, the effect is pretty substantial on the horn. It's like changing pillars on a 396A. Trumpet players do this a lot with their valve caps. When I played this horn, I used the light weight cap ... never. After playing both for a few weeks, the heavy cap went on and never came off again. The lightweight cap sounds nice, and the whole horn really zings, but I preferred the focus and better slotting I found I could get with the heavier cap. Can't speak for others' experiences.[/quote]

Thanks Harrison. Your experience is convincing – the cap weight does matter. It surprises me that a valve cap, outside the airflow path, makes such a difference in sound. I guess it's extra mass in a strategic place.

Do you have any idea which cap Christian Lindberg uses / whether he switches caps?
</QUOTE>

Every time I've seen him play he had the heavy cap, from the time the heavy cap was a thing. His old prototype had what looked like a light cap ... but in the end he sounded like Christian Lindberg from 1982-today.

He does / did a lot more switching out with his bell wrap resistance balancer. To the point of swapping them for different pieces during a recital, or taking the weights out for passages within the same piece. I could tell the difference, as crazy as it is.

One thing I think we need to realize when we get into what Lindberg has been doing for so long, especially in the 90s, is that he mostly is walking out on stage in front of a massive symphony orchestra to play modern, percussive, highly articulated pieces. I think he sought out how to get projection and balance out of the way energy got transferred through the horn to fit that. Heavy weight valve, but open horn. Massive mouthpiece throat, but a pretty resistant bell setup -- first heavy gague yellow brass, then later solid silver, wrapped to prevent free vibrations at the throat, with EXTRA weight added at the throat.

I challenge anyone to test even some of these things out, but in a big hall, as if you had to compete with 60+ other musicians. It's fascinating how well a lot of it works. Try it on your tiny practice room or in a section, and it doesn't work so well.

[quote="mbarbier"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="117658" time="1593144272" user_id="3642">
<LINK_TEXT text="https://parts.conn-selmer.com/products/ ... tm33647ela">https://parts.conn-selmer.com/products/part/16147/tm33647ela</LINK_TEXT>

I believe anyone can order these (I was able to get all the way to the payment info screen), but you may need to have a tech with an account order it for you.[/quote]

awesome- thank you for posting this, Harrison!

mine's a prototype and just has a really light aluminum cap, even the light one is probably heavier!

agreed about the effects of adding mass in specific spots so I'm interested to mess with one.
</QUOTE>

Hey, before you drop the 87 bucks or whatever it is, make sure they kept the same threading and valve size between the prototype and current production model.

If it's just a matter of the patent vs patent pending version, it should be ok, but the old old original version that was his prototype might have been a different diameter or threading. Who knows.

I was able to sorta simulate a heavy valve cap by placing a steel automobile fender washer (12 mm inside diameter, 50 mm outside diameter, 3 mm thickness) under the valve cap.

I'm not good enough to tell the difference, so back out it came.

[quote="harrisonreed"]

Hey, before you drop the 87 bucks or whatever it is, make sure they kept the same threading and valve size between the prototype and current production model.

If it's just a matter of the patent vs patent pending version, it should be ok, but the old old original version that was his prototype might have been a different diameter or threading. Who knows.[/quote]

good point! it's patent pending, but I'll make inquiry. was going to wait a bit to order one anyway just to see if someone had one they wanted to see first anyway...

[quote="mbarbier"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="117665" time="1593148303" user_id="3642">

Hey, before you drop the 87 bucks or whatever it is, make sure they kept the same threading and valve size between the prototype and current production model.

If it's just a matter of the patent vs patent pending version, it should be ok, but the old old original version that was his prototype might have been a different diameter or threading. Who knows.[/quote]

good point! it's patent pending, but I'll make inquiry. was going to wait a bit to order one anyway just to see if someone had one they wanted to see first anyway...
</QUOTE>

Mine says patent pending and had both caps.

awesome- that's super useful to know! thanks man!