A fad we haven't seen yet...fortunately?
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
After an approximately 30-year layoff as I pursued the trombone, I've started playing electric bass again, purely for my own enjoyment at least for now. And of course, being a gearhead, I like browsing instrument maker websites and the classifieds on reverb.com and talkbass.com.
One of the ways you can order a custom-made electric bass is "relic-ed," or artificially made to look like you've been dragging it around to bar gigs, sweating all over it, and having beer bottles thrown at it for a few decades. Fender does this from their custom shop, and some of their artist models (which are usually copies of that artist's favorite vintage Fender) come that way standard. There are other pricey custom guitar and bass builders who will do the same thing.
If I turn around from my computer, I can look at my mid-60s Bach 50B, which rolled around a lot in a gig bag in the trunk of the car of the deceased colleague whose estate I bought it from. The bell was clearly repaired multiple times, and the lacquer - never great on Bachs to begin with - is spotty at best, maybe about 65% coverage. What lacquer is there is aged and darkened unevenly. In its own way it's beautiful, and I wouldn't consider changing it.
The well-worn beauty of my old Bach is earned though. Other than removing lacquer (which we always say is for sound, but we all know full well is for the cool factor as well), I've so far never heard of anybody trying to make a brass instrument look older than it is. Anybody?
One of the ways you can order a custom-made electric bass is "relic-ed," or artificially made to look like you've been dragging it around to bar gigs, sweating all over it, and having beer bottles thrown at it for a few decades. Fender does this from their custom shop, and some of their artist models (which are usually copies of that artist's favorite vintage Fender) come that way standard. There are other pricey custom guitar and bass builders who will do the same thing.
If I turn around from my computer, I can look at my mid-60s Bach 50B, which rolled around a lot in a gig bag in the trunk of the car of the deceased colleague whose estate I bought it from. The bell was clearly repaired multiple times, and the lacquer - never great on Bachs to begin with - is spotty at best, maybe about 65% coverage. What lacquer is there is aged and darkened unevenly. In its own way it's beautiful, and I wouldn't consider changing it.
The well-worn beauty of my old Bach is earned though. Other than removing lacquer (which we always say is for sound, but we all know full well is for the cool factor as well), I've so far never heard of anybody trying to make a brass instrument look older than it is. Anybody?
- Elow
- Posts: 1924
- Joined: Mar 02, 2020
I’ve seen and talked to a russian guy on ebay with an “artificially aged” 36. He said his friend gets the chemicals from a local store and mixes them together i’ll edit this with the link once i find it.
Edit: https://www.ebay.com/itm/282237716767 i personally am in love with how it looks
Edit: https://www.ebay.com/itm/282237716767 i personally am in love with how it looks
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
To me, and I understand this is probably a minority opinion, the looks of a trombone are of secondary or even tertiary concern. This is probably obvious if you've ever seen my horns!
I guess I don't currently understand the need to have the shiniest instrument, or a perfect brushed finish, or a "stage-worn" look like the guitars and basses Gabe speaks of. I'd really like to know why some people do, to understand the difference in opinion.
Again: this is only an opinion. If you like your horn to be in perfect cosmetic condition- great. If you like how BAC horns look- great.
Interesting topic, Gabe.
I guess I don't currently understand the need to have the shiniest instrument, or a perfect brushed finish, or a "stage-worn" look like the guitars and basses Gabe speaks of. I'd really like to know why some people do, to understand the difference in opinion.
Again: this is only an opinion. If you like your horn to be in perfect cosmetic condition- great. If you like how BAC horns look- great.
Interesting topic, Gabe.
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I play with a guy who has a very early Shires, original hand-engraving and all. He's taken such care of it, even playing it professionally as his everyday instrument, that it looks like it just left the factory. He's not paranoid about it or OCD or anything - he's just in the habit of being careful when he's handling it and wiping it down when he puts it away. It's kind of amazing.
- Kdanielsen
- Posts: 609
- Joined: Jul 28, 2019
Ask Greg about his Handel & Haydn horns. He told me he left them out side for a couple weeks so they’d look 300 years old.
- chromebone
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Apr 08, 2018
The equivalent of doing what Fender does would be for Conn-Selmer to market a Charlie Vernon 50 Bach or a Christian Lindbergh 88h Conn with the exact same lacquer wear and dents as theirs. Most of us would think that would be absurd, wouldn’t we?
But somehow it’s acceptable in the Electric Bass and Guitar world.
I think the nature of brass instruments, their relative obscurity In the pop word, plus the fact that you have to work more to play one at even a moderate level means it’s harder to be a poser. That’s not to say there aren’t many guitarists and bassists who are spectacular musicians, but in Rock, the instrument is much more visible and upfront to the audience and a prop/icon unto itself than a trombone in most of its circumstances. And there are a lot of poser types who hold guitars and basses in bands.
I would bet any serious electric bass player would think the same thing about one of those relic models.
But somehow it’s acceptable in the Electric Bass and Guitar world.
I think the nature of brass instruments, their relative obscurity In the pop word, plus the fact that you have to work more to play one at even a moderate level means it’s harder to be a poser. That’s not to say there aren’t many guitarists and bassists who are spectacular musicians, but in Rock, the instrument is much more visible and upfront to the audience and a prop/icon unto itself than a trombone in most of its circumstances. And there are a lot of poser types who hold guitars and basses in bands.
I would bet any serious electric bass player would think the same thing about one of those relic models.
- Cotboneman
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Jul 27, 2018
I’ve never been a fan of the weathered, distressed look, and on brass instruments have always had concerns about being in contact with raw brass. I play an old Getzen 1062 that’s 25 years old, but still looks like it was just bought a couple years ago. I do like the brushed finish look, but I need lacquer between my hands and the brass underneath!
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
Please please please please let the relic fad not catch on with brass instruments. It's already enough that there are lots of self-done scratch finishes on instruments that look horrible, which people then try to sell. I play guitar and bass, and the number of HORRIBLE relic jobs out there is enough to make someone cry. Many just use a razor and try to make the usual 'checking' marks that happen to old guitars.
But there's a problem with that anyway: that finish checking and other issues were from guitars using finishes that have long been abandoned by most makers. A lot of guitar makers have been using automotive style finishes for 40 years now. Polyurethane and polyester are not going to ever get that same "worn in" look that the guitars finished in highly toxic nitrocellulose lacquers do.
Also, the idea that I can pay MORE for a guitar that LOOKS USED is ridiculous. There are plenty of used guitars out there that I can get for LESS than an new one, not more.
But there's a problem with that anyway: that finish checking and other issues were from guitars using finishes that have long been abandoned by most makers. A lot of guitar makers have been using automotive style finishes for 40 years now. Polyurethane and polyester are not going to ever get that same "worn in" look that the guitars finished in highly toxic nitrocellulose lacquers do.
Also, the idea that I can pay MORE for a guitar that LOOKS USED is ridiculous. There are plenty of used guitars out there that I can get for LESS than an new one, not more.
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
[quote="Elow"]I’ve seen and talked to a russian guy on ebay with an “artificially aged” 36. He said his friend gets the chemicals from a local store and mixes them together i’ll edit this with the link once i find it.
Edit: https://www.ebay.com/itm/282237716767 i personally am in love with how it looks[/quote]That's not "artificially aged. It looks like they just used brass black or some other chemicals to flash oxidize the brass.
Most of those bluing compounds are REALLY NASTY substances, that require constant washing in a water bath for a day afterwards to get them off the material. If any is left, it just continues to oxidize, and can even eat right though things like metal, wood, etc.
Edit: https://www.ebay.com/itm/282237716767 i personally am in love with how it looks[/quote]That's not "artificially aged. It looks like they just used brass black or some other chemicals to flash oxidize the brass.
Most of those bluing compounds are REALLY NASTY substances, that require constant washing in a water bath for a day afterwards to get them off the material. If any is left, it just continues to oxidize, and can even eat right though things like metal, wood, etc.
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Kdanielsen"]Ask Greg about his Handel & Haydn horns. He told me he left them out side for a couple weeks so they’d look 300 years old.[/quote]
Haha...I think I remember him telling me that. In that case it makes sense.
Haha...I think I remember him telling me that. In that case it makes sense.
- GabrielRice
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Here's an example that isn't even all that expensive: <LINK_TEXT text="https://reverb.com/item/34317545-luthie ... 7HYQFgqyq4">https://reverb.com/item/34317545-luthier-made-jazz-bass-2020-aged-capri-orange?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=ad&utm_campaign=23845101650510455&utm_content=23845171085230455&utm_term=Caro+-+Make+Music+-+No+Overlay&fbclid=IwAR0L3-KA2cvjBXb1GETEteLAdGB6kQS8fpUV8OEL03r3Z8PbQ7HYQFgqyq4</LINK_TEXT>
- MagnumH
- Posts: 209
- Joined: Mar 06, 2020
It’s essentially the pre-ripped jeans looks of the instrument world.
- Elow
- Posts: 1924
- Joined: Mar 02, 2020
[quote="tbonesullivan"]<QUOTE author="Elow" post_id="117739" time="1593210230" user_id="8680">
I’ve seen and talked to a russian guy on ebay with an “artificially aged” 36. He said his friend gets the chemicals from a local store and mixes them together i’ll edit this with the link once i find it.
Edit: https://www.ebay.com/itm/282237716767 i personally am in love with how it looks[/quote]That's not "artificially aged. It looks like they just used brass black or some other chemicals to flash oxidize the brass.
Most of those bluing compounds are REALLY NASTY substances, that require constant washing in a water bath for a day afterwards to get them off the material. If any is left, it just continues to oxidize, and can even eat right though things like metal, wood, etc.
</QUOTE>
That’s scary. He never mentioned that
I’ve seen and talked to a russian guy on ebay with an “artificially aged” 36. He said his friend gets the chemicals from a local store and mixes them together i’ll edit this with the link once i find it.
Edit: https://www.ebay.com/itm/282237716767 i personally am in love with how it looks[/quote]That's not "artificially aged. It looks like they just used brass black or some other chemicals to flash oxidize the brass.
Most of those bluing compounds are REALLY NASTY substances, that require constant washing in a water bath for a day afterwards to get them off the material. If any is left, it just continues to oxidize, and can even eat right though things like metal, wood, etc.
</QUOTE>
That’s scary. He never mentioned that
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I don't care for the relic guitar/bass thing, but that road-worn look is better on instruments like that than on brass instruments. Usually worn brass instruments just look ugly. An exception I can think of is a 1938 Conn 6D I used to have that had an unbelievable patina, especially on the bell flare. It looked so cool. Then I had it delacquered and well, there that went...
I will say though that Adams does offer an "antique" finish on their custom instruments. I think Schagerl and Carol Brass do something similar as well. However, it's not the same thing at all as the "road worn" stuff...it's its own thing and I think it looks cool.
I will say though that Adams does offer an "antique" finish on their custom instruments. I think Schagerl and Carol Brass do something similar as well. However, it's not the same thing at all as the "road worn" stuff...it's its own thing and I think it looks cool.
- paulyg
- Posts: 689
- Joined: May 17, 2018
Unfortunately people (audience members, who gives a hoot what your colleagues think?) listen with their eyes.
Performance requires intent- and at the highest level, there is an intent behind how your instrument appears. This is obviously less important in some settings vs. others, but ask yourself- when was the last time you saw a service band member with an "ugly" horn?
It matters. It doesn't always matter that much, but it matters.
Performance requires intent- and at the highest level, there is an intent behind how your instrument appears. This is obviously less important in some settings vs. others, but ask yourself- when was the last time you saw a service band member with an "ugly" horn?
It matters. It doesn't always matter that much, but it matters.
- JohnL
- Posts: 2529
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
You know, I would not be surprised to hear that Mike Corrigan has already done this to a few horns. It just seems like something that would fit the aesthetic of some of his customers.
- Inspector71
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
You can achieve an "Antique" look to brass with the use of Liver of Sulfur. I did it just for fun on my old Bach 50 and then lacquered over it to maintain the look of that finish.
It is, however, a very stinky process...
It is, however, a very stinky process...
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
[quote="Elow"]That’s scary. He never mentioned that[/quote] It depends entirely on what they are using to oxidize the brass and make it that color. The color they have is very consistent, which you usually only get with the commercial grade blacking agents.
- fwbassbone
- Posts: 131
- Joined: Apr 07, 2018
My bass trombones don't look bad (read old and beat up) but they do look like they are played regularly. On a side note, if I want to play an old looking bass guitar on a gig I use my '69 Fender Precision. It's the bass I judge all other basses against.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
I mean, who really cares? When someone shows up playing some crazy, smokey satin finished horn and can't hack the gig, we get to laugh harder at them and never invite them back. When Trombone Shorty wrecks it at the concert with his distressed looking horn, it's awesome and we wish we could rock a cool horn like he does.
- mrdeacon
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: May 08, 2018
I've always love the look of raw brass and even fairly beat up trombones... but trombones with the "artificial aging" "steampunk" finishes always look terrible. Sometimes forced patinas don't look bad!
I had a friend who got the "steampunk" looking finish on his small tenor. It didn't last very long and the finish would come of his hands while playing and get on his shirt collar from the neckpipe! Woof.
In other music industries, like the string world... the aged look is actually really important. For string instruments, the "aged" look means the finish has been hand applied and proper finishing techniques have been used instead of lacquer or spray finishes like on student models. The oil and varnish applied really does look stunning when done right! Only student level instruments are missing the aged look.
I had a friend who got the "steampunk" looking finish on his small tenor. It didn't last very long and the finish would come of his hands while playing and get on his shirt collar from the neckpipe! Woof.
In other music industries, like the string world... the aged look is actually really important. For string instruments, the "aged" look means the finish has been hand applied and proper finishing techniques have been used instead of lacquer or spray finishes like on student models. The oil and varnish applied really does look stunning when done right! Only student level instruments are missing the aged look.
- DougHulme
- Posts: 558
- Joined: Apr 27, 2018
JohnL wrote
Indeed you are right sir... he offers the service I believe (I confess to having considered it for a minute!).
Doug
You know, I would not be surprised to hear that Mike Corrigan has already done this to a few horns. It just seems like something that would fit the aesthetic of some of his customers.
Indeed you are right sir... he offers the service I believe (I confess to having considered it for a minute!).
Doug
- afugate
- Posts: 671
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="GabeLangfur"]One of the ways you can order a custom-made electric bass is "relic-ed," or artificially made to look like you've been dragging it around to bar gigs, sweating all over it, and having beer bottles thrown at it for a few decades.[/quote]
There is a market for this precisely because it doesn't take decades of diligent practice to succeed in that world.
Perhaps there is a reason for all of the jokes along these lines that float around the internet.
[size=115][color=#0000BF]Kid wants to take bass lessons, Dad agrees to pay for it.
Day one--"what did you learn?"--"how to tune the E"
Day two--"what did you learn?"--"how to tune the A"
Day three--"what did you...?"--"PLAYED MY FIRST GIG!"
--Andy in OKC
There is a market for this precisely because it doesn't take decades of diligent practice to succeed in that world.
Perhaps there is a reason for all of the jokes along these lines that float around the internet.
Day one--"what did you learn?"--"how to tune the E"
Day two--"what did you learn?"--"how to tune the A"
Day three--"what did you...?"--"PLAYED MY FIRST GIG!"
--Andy in OKC