A Bach 36K, 42K, and 50K3 walk into a bar...
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
That's right, all three in the same place!
Oddly enough, both tenors are Corporation instruments that were later converted.
The 36 is mine- pictures incoming of my widened slide with Shires brass .525 crook, courtesy of Benn Hansson.
- pompatus
- Posts: 434
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
That’s a “pretty” valve section on the 50. It looks like it might weigh a ton with the K valves, though. How does it blow?
- Hobart
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Sep 15, 2019
The 50 doesn't carry the K-valves awfully gracefully, but how does it play compared to normal rotors? I'm curious.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
It blows... ok. Each valve by itself is fine, but both together is more resistance than I like. The thing about that particular 50K3 is that it sounds very, very good. Dense, wide, orchestral Bach sound. You can forgive some things for that!
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]Dense, wide, orchestral Bach sound.[/quote]
Oh to be playing again in an orchestra! :weep:
Oh to be playing again in an orchestra! :weep:
- Kevbach33
- Posts: 295
- Joined: May 29, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]Dense, wide, orchestral Bach sound.[/quote]
This is exactly how I felt the sound was play testing a 50K3 a few years ago when a local store had a used one available. It would not be as easy to play in a big band, though doable. I wonder how many were made with gold brass bells.
As for feel, yeah, open individual valves, but some resistance with both (between rotors and axial flows). As a rotary bass trombonist, I didn't mind that feel one bit. I kinda dig the look as well, mostly for being different, though I did find it heavy.
I couldn't get over the "legit" sound of the horn, though, so I passed.
This is exactly how I felt the sound was play testing a 50K3 a few years ago when a local store had a used one available. It would not be as easy to play in a big band, though doable. I wonder how many were made with gold brass bells.
As for feel, yeah, open individual valves, but some resistance with both (between rotors and axial flows). As a rotary bass trombonist, I didn't mind that feel one bit. I kinda dig the look as well, mostly for being different, though I did find it heavy.
I couldn't get over the "legit" sound of the horn, though, so I passed.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Bachs are like that... they cover quite a wide spectrum. My current gold bell horn sounds large, but doesn't have that same obvious "ochestral" sound. Even the 36 in this photo doesn't sound like the other 36 I borrowed recently. I'm sure there are less legit sounding 50K3s out there.
- chromebone
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Apr 08, 2018
The best 42 I ever played was a gold brass belled K valve owned by a fellow student at MSM who had one that was personally selected for him by his teacher, Dave Finlayson. I remember everyone who tried it wanted it badly. It sounded incredible, was easy to play, but that damn value was just so heavy and slow. Even with that downside, it was worth it because it sounded so great.
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
NICE! Those valves really are underrated. Maybe a BIT oversized, but they have a nice feel. On the 36, not sure it really helps, but it definitely looks nice!
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="tbonesullivan"]NICE! Those valves really are underrated. Maybe a BIT oversized, but they have a nice feel. On the 36, not sure it really helps, but it definitely looks nice![/quote]
I personally think they play quite well- the problem I have is getting in and out of the valve, say valve slurs. There's quite a long period where there's no ports open at all, and it's a heavy valve, so it's quite easy to whiff something like low G to low F in a quick passage. This is where Thayers really blow them away- there's no real point where a Thayer can't be blown through at all (not to mention the aluminum valves are quite fast) and it just feels better to move through the valve.
I personally think they play quite well- the problem I have is getting in and out of the valve, say valve slurs. There's quite a long period where there's no ports open at all, and it's a heavy valve, so it's quite easy to whiff something like low G to low F in a quick passage. This is where Thayers really blow them away- there's no real point where a Thayer can't be blown through at all (not to mention the aluminum valves are quite fast) and it just feels better to move through the valve.
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
There are two unique things that I have noticed about K valves over the years.
1. The valve has so much mass that it makes the trombone flat. Thus, the 42Ks and the 36Ks have shorter main tuning slides. I have heard that Bach actually sent some of them out as prototypes with normal length tuning slides and people complained that they were flat, so they shortened the tuning slides when the K valve went into production. I really don't know how much of that story is true, so please correct me if you know better.
I don't know if the 50Ks have a shorter main tuning, but I imagine a double K valve would really need it due to the high mass. In Burgerbob's photo, the main tuning slide on the 50 looks VERY short, but that could have been an after-market customization.
2. The valve ports absolutely MUST be aligned correctly on those K valves. Back in the 90s, I was hearing about players who struggled with those horns. The complaint was that some pitches in mid-range were very dull sounding. When I starting doing repairs/custom work and people brought in horns with K valves, I noticed that most of the K valves were horribly aligned. Once the valve ports were trued, the K valve trombones played so much better. If you have a K valve that doesn't play well.......don't give up on it! Take it to your tech and have them look at the port alignment with lights/scopes etc..... If the bumpers are trimmed correctly, some of those K valve horns play rather well!
1. The valve has so much mass that it makes the trombone flat. Thus, the 42Ks and the 36Ks have shorter main tuning slides. I have heard that Bach actually sent some of them out as prototypes with normal length tuning slides and people complained that they were flat, so they shortened the tuning slides when the K valve went into production. I really don't know how much of that story is true, so please correct me if you know better.
I don't know if the 50Ks have a shorter main tuning, but I imagine a double K valve would really need it due to the high mass. In Burgerbob's photo, the main tuning slide on the 50 looks VERY short, but that could have been an after-market customization.
2. The valve ports absolutely MUST be aligned correctly on those K valves. Back in the 90s, I was hearing about players who struggled with those horns. The complaint was that some pitches in mid-range were very dull sounding. When I starting doing repairs/custom work and people brought in horns with K valves, I noticed that most of the K valves were horribly aligned. Once the valve ports were trued, the K valve trombones played so much better. If you have a K valve that doesn't play well.......don't give up on it! Take it to your tech and have them look at the port alignment with lights/scopes etc..... If the bumpers are trimmed correctly, some of those K valve horns play rather well!
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="Crazy4Tbone86"]There are two unique things that I have noticed about K valves over the years.
1. The valve has so much mass that it makes the trombone flat. Thus, the 42Ks and the 36Ks have shorter main tuning slides. I have heard that Bach actually sent some of them out as prototypes with normal length tuning slides and people complained that they were flat, so they shortened the tuning slides when the K valve went into production. I really don't know how much of that story is true, so please correct me if you know better.
I don't know if the 50Ks have a shorter main tuning, but I imagine a double K valve would really need it due to the high mass. In Burgerbob's photo, the main tuning slide on the 50 looks VERY short, but that could have been an after-market customization.
[/quote]
Based on my sample size of 1, you're right. My 36 has shorter legs and receivers than either of my 42s.
Benn cut his 50K3 down pretty substantially. As per usual, 50s are hard to play up to pitch with larger mouthpieces... no surprises there. Mine is cut down as well.
1. The valve has so much mass that it makes the trombone flat. Thus, the 42Ks and the 36Ks have shorter main tuning slides. I have heard that Bach actually sent some of them out as prototypes with normal length tuning slides and people complained that they were flat, so they shortened the tuning slides when the K valve went into production. I really don't know how much of that story is true, so please correct me if you know better.
I don't know if the 50Ks have a shorter main tuning, but I imagine a double K valve would really need it due to the high mass. In Burgerbob's photo, the main tuning slide on the 50 looks VERY short, but that could have been an after-market customization.
[/quote]
Based on my sample size of 1, you're right. My 36 has shorter legs and receivers than either of my 42s.
Benn cut his 50K3 down pretty substantially. As per usual, 50s are hard to play up to pitch with larger mouthpieces... no surprises there. Mine is cut down as well.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="Elow"]Anyone know if there was a stock 45K?[/quote]
Nope. No 45s made that late, until the couple bells they made in the '00s.
Nope. No 45s made that late, until the couple bells they made in the '00s.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
It's interesting that more mass is proposed here as a way of getting away with shorter tuning legs (always a plus in my book). Does it matter where the mass goes to get a horn to go flat?
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]It's interesting that more mass is proposed here as a way of getting away with shorter tuning legs (always a plus in my book). Does it matter where the mass goes to get a horn to go flat?[/quote]
I think mass in this case is length. Some valves add more length than what they replace.
I think mass in this case is length. Some valves add more length than what they replace.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="121494" time="1596255644" user_id="3642">
It's interesting that more mass is proposed here as a way of getting away with shorter tuning legs (always a plus in my book). Does it matter where the mass goes to get a horn to go flat?[/quote]
I think mass in this case is length. Some valves add more length than what they replace.
</QUOTE>
Aww... Got me excited. In that case, it probably added even wonkier length than what needs to be removed from the straight tuning sides
It's interesting that more mass is proposed here as a way of getting away with shorter tuning legs (always a plus in my book). Does it matter where the mass goes to get a horn to go flat?[/quote]
I think mass in this case is length. Some valves add more length than what they replace.
</QUOTE>
Aww... Got me excited. In that case, it probably added even wonkier length than what needs to be removed from the straight tuning sides
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Bachs are also super long in general. I play basically slammed on my 42 and 36 to play Bb on the bumpers.
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="Elow" post_id="121492" time="1596252436" user_id="8680">
Anyone know if there was a stock 45K?[/quote]
Nope. No 45s made that late, until the couple bells they made in the '00s.
</QUOTE>
If somebody has a bass section lying around I’d be happy to adapt it to my 45 for the photo op. (That and I have a thing for obsolete valves)
Cheers,
Andy
Anyone know if there was a stock 45K?[/quote]
Nope. No 45s made that late, until the couple bells they made in the '00s.
</QUOTE>
If somebody has a bass section lying around I’d be happy to adapt it to my 45 for the photo op. (That and I have a thing for obsolete valves)
Cheers,
Andy
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
If somebody has a bass section lying around I’d be happy to adapt it to my 45 for the photo op. (That and I have a thing for obsolete valves)
Cheers,
Andy
Speaking of obsolete valves......I would love to get my hands on a Miller valve. The Miller valve was supposed to be the K valve that was done with higher precision and had better playing qualities. Anybody out there have a Miller valve?
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="Crazy4Tbone86"]<QUOTE>
If somebody has a bass section lying around I’d be happy to adapt it to my 45 for the photo op. (That and I have a thing for obsolete valves)
Cheers,
Andy[/quote]
Speaking of obsolete valves......I would love to get my hands on a Miller valve. The Miller valve was supposed to be the K valve that was done with higher precision and had better playing qualities. Anybody out there have a Miller valve?
</QUOTE>
From what I've heard... they're worse in every way. Plastic valve cores!
If somebody has a bass section lying around I’d be happy to adapt it to my 45 for the photo op. (That and I have a thing for obsolete valves)
Cheers,
Andy[/quote]
Speaking of obsolete valves......I would love to get my hands on a Miller valve. The Miller valve was supposed to be the K valve that was done with higher precision and had better playing qualities. Anybody out there have a Miller valve?
</QUOTE>
From what I've heard... they're worse in every way. Plastic valve cores!
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
Are you sure about that? A plastic valve core could have been a prototype. After all, the prototype Thayers had plastic valve cores (I know a repair tech who has one).
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="Crazy4Tbone86"]Are you sure about that? A plastic valve core could have been a prototype. After all, the prototype Thayers had plastic valve cores (I know a repair tech who has one).[/quote]
It's the word on the street. Designer was a lawyer.
It's the word on the street. Designer was a lawyer.
- BrianJohnston
- Posts: 1165
- Joined: Jul 11, 2020
[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob" post_id="121414" time="1596170576" user_id="3131">
Dense, wide, orchestral Bach sound.[/quote]
Oh to be playing again in an orchestra! :weep:
</QUOTE>
:weep:
Dense, wide, orchestral Bach sound.[/quote]
Oh to be playing again in an orchestra! :weep:
</QUOTE>
:weep:
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="Crazy4Tbone86" post_id="121538" time="1596315723" user_id="8392">
Are you sure about that? A plastic valve core could have been a prototype. After all, the prototype Thayers had plastic valve cores (I know a repair tech who has one).[/quote]
It's the word on the street. Designer was a lawyer.
</QUOTE>
Wow! It's amazing how information just disappears. I did multiple searches about the "Miller Valve" designed by Robert M. Miller in St. Louis and found almost nothing. 10-15 years ago, there was chatter all over the Internet about those valves. I knew that not too many were made, but I always thought they were considered great valves. Anybody out there have one, every play on one, or do tech work on a Miller Valve?
Are you sure about that? A plastic valve core could have been a prototype. After all, the prototype Thayers had plastic valve cores (I know a repair tech who has one).[/quote]
It's the word on the street. Designer was a lawyer.
</QUOTE>
Wow! It's amazing how information just disappears. I did multiple searches about the "Miller Valve" designed by Robert M. Miller in St. Louis and found almost nothing. 10-15 years ago, there was chatter all over the Internet about those valves. I knew that not too many were made, but I always thought they were considered great valves. Anybody out there have one, every play on one, or do tech work on a Miller Valve?
- deanmccarty
- Posts: 224
- Joined: May 01, 2018
[quote="Kevbach33"]<QUOTE author="Burgerbob" post_id="121414" time="1596170576" user_id="3131">
Dense, wide, orchestral Bach sound.[/quote]
I wonder how many were made with gold brass bells.
</QUOTE>
I had Bach make a 50K3 with a heavy gold brass bell, a nickel slide, with interchangeable leadpipes... I REALLY liked the way the valves played, and that sound in an orchestra... WOW... but it was limited. It did not function well in the studio or any commercial playing. I ended up selling it a few years later and went with a Shires... 9 years later, I moved from Shires to Rath. I wish now that I had the Bach along with my Rath... but I would probably want the Bach with only one valve with extended tubing.
Dense, wide, orchestral Bach sound.[/quote]
I wonder how many were made with gold brass bells.
</QUOTE>
I had Bach make a 50K3 with a heavy gold brass bell, a nickel slide, with interchangeable leadpipes... I REALLY liked the way the valves played, and that sound in an orchestra... WOW... but it was limited. It did not function well in the studio or any commercial playing. I ended up selling it a few years later and went with a Shires... 9 years later, I moved from Shires to Rath. I wish now that I had the Bach along with my Rath... but I would probably want the Bach with only one valve with extended tubing.
- Nhtrombone
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Mar 26, 2018
I’ve got a mid-90s 42k yellow brass bell and standard slide and I really like the way it plays. The valve is large and loud but it blows nicely. I, honestly, don’t notice much difference between the k and the Thayers on my getzen custom bass. Definitely more open than the standard rotor on my Yamaha.
And, I’ll admit, I clicked on this thread multiple times just to look at that picture. #hornporn
And, I’ll admit, I clicked on this thread multiple times just to look at that picture. #hornporn
- Bach42t
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Aug 11, 2018
I special ordered an LT42KD in 1997 with a yellow, removable-bell option, lightweight slide and lead pipe options my freshman year of college. I knew I had to wait a year because that's how crazy in demand Bach instruments were back then, so I bought a beater 42B from a pawn shop to get me through my freshman year. At some point, Bach began to offer Thayer Valves into normal production so I switched my order to the Thayer. I do know that music store in Montgomery, AL got that particular horn delivered, before my 42T so someone else bought it. All I can say is the world is better place because I gave it at least one more K-vavled Bach, RARE AS HEN'S TEATH. All that being said, the "K" valve is based off the name of the original engineer at Bach who developed it.
- tntitan
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Apr 20, 2019
[quote="Crazy4Tbone86"]<QUOTE>
If somebody has a bass section lying around I’d be happy to adapt it to my 45 for the photo op. (That and I have a thing for obsolete valves)
Cheers,
Andy[/quote]
Speaking of obsolete valves......I would love to get my hands on a Miller valve. The Miller valve was supposed to be the K valve that was done with higher precision and had better playing qualities. Anybody out there have a Miller valve?
</QUOTE>
There’s a Bach 42 with one posted for sale right now on Reverb: <LINK_TEXT text="https://reverb.com/item/35098398-bach-s ... t=35098398">https://reverb.com/item/35098398-bach-strad-42-1990-1994-professional-stradivarius-model-42-trombone-with-miller-valve?utm_source=rev-ios-app&utm_medium=ios-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=35098398</LINK_TEXT>
If somebody has a bass section lying around I’d be happy to adapt it to my 45 for the photo op. (That and I have a thing for obsolete valves)
Cheers,
Andy[/quote]
Speaking of obsolete valves......I would love to get my hands on a Miller valve. The Miller valve was supposed to be the K valve that was done with higher precision and had better playing qualities. Anybody out there have a Miller valve?
</QUOTE>
There’s a Bach 42 with one posted for sale right now on Reverb: <LINK_TEXT text="https://reverb.com/item/35098398-bach-s ... t=35098398">https://reverb.com/item/35098398-bach-strad-42-1990-1994-professional-stradivarius-model-42-trombone-with-miller-valve?utm_source=rev-ios-app&utm_medium=ios-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=35098398</LINK_TEXT>
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
Thanks tntitan!
That's the first Miller valve I have seen pop up on the Internet in a while. I might be interested in it but BurgerBob has me scared with this talk of a plastic valve core. I really wish there were some Miller valve owners who could chime in!
That's the first Miller valve I have seen pop up on the Internet in a while. I might be interested in it but BurgerBob has me scared with this talk of a plastic valve core. I really wish there were some Miller valve owners who could chime in!
- Dennis
- Posts: 404
- Joined: Mar 24, 2018
[quote="Crazy4Tbone86"]Thanks tntitan!
I might be interested in it but BurgerBob has me scared with this talk of a plastic valve core. I really wish there were some Miller valve owners who could chime in![/quote]
If you look at the photos of the valve it's clear that (1) the valve casing and lower bearing is yellow brass, and (2) the valve's axle is also brass.
It's possible that the valve passages proper are plastic, but I doubt it. 3D printing didn't really exist then, so your choices would be to machine the valve, or machine the molds to make the valve. Machining the valve would be a lot cheaper for a small run of valves.
My guess is that the valve guts are brass.
I might be interested in it but BurgerBob has me scared with this talk of a plastic valve core. I really wish there were some Miller valve owners who could chime in![/quote]
If you look at the photos of the valve it's clear that (1) the valve casing and lower bearing is yellow brass, and (2) the valve's axle is also brass.
It's possible that the valve passages proper are plastic, but I doubt it. 3D printing didn't really exist then, so your choices would be to machine the valve, or machine the molds to make the valve. Machining the valve would be a lot cheaper for a small run of valves.
My guess is that the valve guts are brass.
- tombone21
- Posts: 208
- Joined: Nov 14, 2018
I used an archive machine to find the old Miller Valve website a couple weeks ago.
[url]<LINK_TEXT text="https://web.archive.org/web/20070625075 ... /tech.html">https://web.archive.org/web/20070625075803/http://www.millervalve.com/tech.html</LINK_TEXT>
Pretty sure that link still works. If not, here's a quote further down the page,
Pretty sure that link still works. If not, here's a quote further down the page,
This valve is made of brass and has the resonance associated with a traditional brass instrument. It is made with traditional rotary valve construction and each valve is hand lapped for a tight seal. The valve operates quickly because the rotor is hollow and the actuating lever uses increased mechanical advantage to spin the rotor.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="tntitan"]<QUOTE author="Crazy4Tbone86" post_id="121518" time="1596293298" user_id="8392">
Speaking of obsolete valves......I would love to get my hands on a Miller valve. The Miller valve was supposed to be the K valve that was done with higher precision and had better playing qualities. Anybody out there have a Miller valve?[/quote]
There’s a Bach 42 with one posted for sale right now on Reverb: <LINK_TEXT text="https://reverb.com/item/35098398-bach-s ... t=35098398">https://reverb.com/item/35098398-bach-strad-42-1990-1994-professional-stradivarius-model-42-trombone-with-miller-valve?utm_source=rev-ios-app&utm_medium=ios-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=35098398</LINK_TEXT>
</QUOTE>
I remember these valves! Wow, yeah these were NOT popular!
Speaking of obsolete valves......I would love to get my hands on a Miller valve. The Miller valve was supposed to be the K valve that was done with higher precision and had better playing qualities. Anybody out there have a Miller valve?[/quote]
There’s a Bach 42 with one posted for sale right now on Reverb: <LINK_TEXT text="https://reverb.com/item/35098398-bach-s ... t=35098398">https://reverb.com/item/35098398-bach-strad-42-1990-1994-professional-stradivarius-model-42-trombone-with-miller-valve?utm_source=rev-ios-app&utm_medium=ios-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=35098398</LINK_TEXT>
</QUOTE>
I remember these valves! Wow, yeah these were NOT popular!
- Crazy4Tbone86
- Posts: 1654
- Joined: Jan 14, 2020
I don't think many Miller valves were made. Was it that they didn't play well? Did they play better/worse than the K valve (the design was similar)? Was it a decent product and Miller had a tough time competing in an industry dominated by the well-known brands?
Too many mysteries. I'm starting a thread on the Miller valve!
Too many mysteries. I'm starting a thread on the Miller valve!
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
Sorry I’m late to the party. Room for one more?
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="HawaiiTromboneGuy"]In case anyone is interested.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.dillonmusic.com/used-bach-5 ... sn-143169/">https://www.dillonmusic.com/used-bach-50k3l-bb-f-gb-d-bass-trombone-sn-143169/</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
An optimistic price!
BTW, that 50KG you sold was a really great horn- got to play it a bit.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.dillonmusic.com/used-bach-5 ... sn-143169/">https://www.dillonmusic.com/used-bach-50k3l-bb-f-gb-d-bass-trombone-sn-143169/</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
An optimistic price!
BTW, that 50KG you sold was a really great horn- got to play it a bit.
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="HawaiiTromboneGuy" post_id="154670" time="1628616383" user_id="3695">
In case anyone is interested.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.dillonmusic.com/used-bach-5 ... sn-143169/">https://www.dillonmusic.com/used-bach-50k3l-bb-f-gb-d-bass-trombone-sn-143169/</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
An optimistic price!
BTW, that 50KG you sold was a really great horn- got to play it a bit.
</QUOTE>
That 10.5” bell + K valves must be heavy. At least you can get your workout in every time you pick it up!
Glad you had a chance to give that single K a go. I enjoyed hearing about the plans the new owner had for it.
In case anyone is interested.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.dillonmusic.com/used-bach-5 ... sn-143169/">https://www.dillonmusic.com/used-bach-50k3l-bb-f-gb-d-bass-trombone-sn-143169/</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
An optimistic price!
BTW, that 50KG you sold was a really great horn- got to play it a bit.
</QUOTE>
That 10.5” bell + K valves must be heavy. At least you can get your workout in every time you pick it up!
Glad you had a chance to give that single K a go. I enjoyed hearing about the plans the new owner had for it.
- Ndwood
- Posts: 66
- Joined: May 11, 2018
Speaking of the Miller valve, Josh Landress has a Bach 45 prototype in the shop with a Miller valve and plug-in rotor...
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.jlandressbrass.com/shop/Tro ... 594955.htm">https://www.jlandressbrass.com/shop/Trombones/Used-Trombones/p/Bach-Prototype-4546B-Bass-Trombone-112499---Used-x58594955.htm</LINK_TEXT>
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.jlandressbrass.com/shop/Tro ... 594955.htm">https://www.jlandressbrass.com/shop/Trombones/Used-Trombones/p/Bach-Prototype-4546B-Bass-Trombone-112499---Used-x58594955.htm</LINK_TEXT>
- HawaiiTromboneGuy
- Posts: 1025
- Joined: Sep 03, 2018
[quote="Ndwood"]Speaking of the Miller valve, Josh Landress has a Bach 45 prototype in the shop with a Miller valve and plug-in rotor...
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.jlandressbrass.com/shop/Tro ... 594955.htm">https://www.jlandressbrass.com/shop/Trombones/Used-Trombones/p/Bach-Prototype-4546B-Bass-Trombone-112499---Used-x58594955.htm</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
Wow, I’m pretty sure that’s the 45B I used to own. Bought it years ago from Ron Rosenbaum. Apparently it was a prototype 45B that Bach had made for Jay Friedman. If memory serves me correctly, Ron got the horn through a local auction in Chicago at some sort of benefit function. I’ll see if I can dig up old photos of it, but the bell did have that date etched on it.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.jlandressbrass.com/shop/Tro ... 594955.htm">https://www.jlandressbrass.com/shop/Trombones/Used-Trombones/p/Bach-Prototype-4546B-Bass-Trombone-112499---Used-x58594955.htm</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
Wow, I’m pretty sure that’s the 45B I used to own. Bought it years ago from Ron Rosenbaum. Apparently it was a prototype 45B that Bach had made for Jay Friedman. If memory serves me correctly, Ron got the horn through a local auction in Chicago at some sort of benefit function. I’ll see if I can dig up old photos of it, but the bell did have that date etched on it.
- Jesperiank
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Jan 12, 2020
Hello everyone! I just discovered this new type of valve through the videos of Burgerbob, and I also saw the 50K3 which is currently for sale on the website of Steve Dillon.
[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="HawaiiTromboneGuy" post_id="154670" time="1628616383" user_id="3695">
In case anyone is interested.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.dillonmusic.com/used-bach-5 ... sn-143169/">https://www.dillonmusic.com/used-bach-50k3l-bb-f-gb-d-bass-trombone-sn-143169/</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
An optimistic price!
</QUOTE>
You said $2700 is an optimistic price, for which price would you advise to buy one? I may be interested in getting one, but I don't really know what would be a decent price for it. Many thanks!
[quote="Burgerbob"]<QUOTE author="HawaiiTromboneGuy" post_id="154670" time="1628616383" user_id="3695">
In case anyone is interested.
<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.dillonmusic.com/used-bach-5 ... sn-143169/">https://www.dillonmusic.com/used-bach-50k3l-bb-f-gb-d-bass-trombone-sn-143169/</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]
An optimistic price!
</QUOTE>
You said $2700 is an optimistic price, for which price would you advise to buy one? I may be interested in getting one, but I don't really know what would be a decent price for it. Many thanks!
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
@Jasperlank: you really need to play one first. The big beef on K-valves is that they dig into your neck (depending on your size and how you hold your trombone). If it's not a problem, they are great valves. But not if you feel choked every time you try to play.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
[quote="Jesperiank"]Hello everyone! I just discovered this new type of valve through the videos of Burgerbob, and I also saw the 50K3 which is currently for sale on the website of Steve Dillon.
You said $2700 is an optimistic price, for which price would you advise to buy one? I may be interested in getting one, but I don't really know what would be a decent price for it. Many thanks![/quote]
It's optimistic for two reasons- K valves are seen as outdated, and the L bell is seen as really, really outdated. If it had the normal 9.5" bell it would be worth that price, or nearly so, I think. With the L bell without playing it first, not even close.
You said $2700 is an optimistic price, for which price would you advise to buy one? I may be interested in getting one, but I don't really know what would be a decent price for it. Many thanks![/quote]
It's optimistic for two reasons- K valves are seen as outdated, and the L bell is seen as really, really outdated. If it had the normal 9.5" bell it would be worth that price, or nearly so, I think. With the L bell without playing it first, not even close.
- Jesperiank
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Jan 12, 2020
Thanks for the feedback everyone! I didn't know the bell size could have such an impact on the price. What would be a righter price for a 50K3L then? Like $2500 instead of $2700 for instance, or even lower?
- Elow
- Posts: 1924
- Joined: Mar 02, 2020
Honestly, i just wouldn’t buy it… Unless you’re able to try it out and fall in love with it then it’s really not worth it. $2000+ is a healthy budget for any bass
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
Yup... It's a huge, heavy horn that probably isn't much fun to play. I'd personally pay less than 2k, but I'm sure others would pay higher.
- Jesperiank
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Jan 12, 2020
Ok I see, then I'll pass as I live in Europe, so quite difficult for me to try one. Many thanks for your advice everyone!