Advice needed on inner wear

mickael57280 · by **mickael57280** » 2020-08-03 5:23 a.m.

Hi, I have an noisy and kind of sluggish slide and need advice if it can be due to the wear of the inners.

As you can see from the pics below, it's not chunks of plating lost, it's more like grease or some droplets dry on the slide that I can't get out.

Hope someone can help me.

Thanks

Pics from the stockings

~~[URL=https://www.casimages.com/i/200803111903673206.jpg.html]~~

~~[URL=https://www.casimages.com/i/20080311172559395.jpg.html]~~

~~[URL=https://www.casimages.com/i/200803111913847606.jpg.html]~~

~~[URL=https://www.casimages.com/i/200803112008244944.jpg.html]~~

The small droplets

~~[URL=https://www.casimages.com/i/200803112034124334.jpg.html]~~

Bonearzt · by **Bonearzt** » 2020-08-03 8:04 a.m.

You could try some 0000 steel wool, being careful to not get any inside the tubes at the stockings.

If that doesn't help, a good service of your slide might be in order to polish the inner & outer tubes & check the alignment.

Eric

timothy42b · by **timothy42b** » 2020-08-03 8:18 a.m.

That looks like corrosion to me.

micka572 · by **micka572** » 2020-08-03 8:50 a.m.

Tech where I live don't do things like that, just clean and alignement, no polish.

Can I polish with Wright ?

tbonesullivan · by **tbonesullivan** » 2020-08-03 9:06 a.m.

That's a chrome plated slide inner right? Do you have hard water? Those look a lot like mineral deposits.

mickael57280 · by **mickael57280** » 2020-08-03 9:10 a.m.

Chrome plated inner slide right.

I just receipt the horn, so no relation to water at home.

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2020-08-03 9:24 a.m.

[quote="Bonearzt"]You could try some 0000 steel wool, being careful to not get any inside the tubes at the stockings.[/quote]
Or [url=https://www.amazon.com/PRODUCTS-123101-Bronze-Medium-3-Pads/dp/B0000AXS0U/ref=asc_df_B0000AXS0U/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309770451066&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15719334670374359950&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031143&hvtargid=pla-628617185646&psc=1]bronze wool. Less risk of damaging the chrome plate. You can usually find it at marine supply stores and specialty woodworking stores.

Bonearzt · by **Bonearzt** » 2020-08-03 9:27 a.m.

[quote="JohnL"]<QUOTE author="Bonearzt" post_id="121676" time="1596456273" user_id="54">
You could try some 0000 steel wool, being careful to not get any inside the tubes at the stockings.[/quote]
Or [url=https://www.amazon.com/PRODUCTS-123101-Bronze-Medium-3-Pads/dp/B0000AXS0U/ref=asc_df_B0000AXS0U/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309770451066&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15719334670374359950&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031143&hvtargid=pla-628617185646&psc=1]bronze wool. Less risk of damaging the chrome plate. You can usually find it at marine supply stores and specialty woodworking stores.
</QUOTE>

Good idea!!

Bonearzt · by **Bonearzt** » 2020-08-03 9:29 a.m.

[quote="micka572"]Tech where I live don't do things like that, just clean and alignment, no polish.

Can I polish with Wright ?[/quote]

Sad that your tech doesn't finish the job!!

But yes, Wrights might work. Again be sure to get all the residual polish off!

Eric

mickael57280 · by **mickael57280** » 2020-08-03 9:42 a.m.

How to be sure it's all off?

Bonearzt · by **Bonearzt** » 2020-08-03 10:16 a.m.

Wipe down with a white soft cloth, should stay clean.

Also, use a pencil or similar to gently push the cloth into the bottom of the inner tubes, only about 1 cm, sometimes a bit of residue will get into the ends.

vetsurginc · by **vetsurginc** » 2020-08-03 11:12 a.m.

While I hate to be without a horn for the time necessary for repairs, sometimes shipping to a good service is the best way to go. Get everything done in one swell foop and not have to do anything else for a good long while.

micka572 · by **micka572** » 2020-08-03 12:10 p.m.

I'm in France...

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2020-08-03 1:42 p.m.

[quote="Bonearzt"]<QUOTE author="JohnL" post_id="121692" time="1596461079" user_id="119">

Or [url=https://www.amazon.com/PRODUCTS-123101-Bronze-Medium-3-Pads/dp/B0000AXS0U/ref=asc_df_B0000AXS0U/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309770451066&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15719334670374359950&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031143&hvtargid=pla-628617185646&psc=1]bronze wool. Less risk of damaging the chrome plate. You can usually find it at marine supply stores and specialty woodworking stores.[/quote]

Good idea!!
</QUOTE>
Got that one from John Sandhagen.

Bonearzt · by **Bonearzt** » 2020-08-03 5:58 p.m.

[quote="JohnL"]<QUOTE author="Bonearzt" post_id="121693" time="1596461257" user_id="54">

Good idea!![/quote]
Got that one from John Sandhagen.
</QUOTE>

Eh....He's OK....HA!!!!

mickael57280 · by **mickael57280** » 2020-08-04 8:13 a.m.

Thank you all of you guys.

Something that I don't understand is why in the US tech make all this things that can really improve slides like cleaning, polishing, changing cork, felt, straightening, alignement and here in France it's almost always the same.

Cleaning, alignement and that's it!

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2020-08-04 8:52 a.m.

John Upchurch. The original "Slide Doctor" devoted his life to figuring out ways to make slides work best. There were others too, who developed their own techniques and became known for great slide work: Bruce Belo in California, Merlin Grady in Iowa, just to name a couple. And Ray Splawn, who took over the Slide Doctor when John Upchurch retired.

I don't mean to leave anybody out, there are a lot of people now who do great slide work, but I think they were the real pioneers in the field.

micka572 · by **micka572** » 2020-08-04 8:56 a.m.

No one to recommand in Europe ?

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2020-08-04 9:02 a.m.

I would think some of the instrument makers also do good repair work- Max Thein, Manfred Schmelzer, Kuhnl & Hoyer, probably lots more.

Crazy4Tbone86 · by **Crazy4Tbone86** » 2020-08-04 9:40 a.m.

Markneukirchen, Germany is a town full of instrument makers and craftsmen. Many of brass instrument makers there specialize in repairs as well. With a little research, I’m sure you could find someone in Markneukirchen who does great slide work.

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2020-08-04 10:41 a.m.

Markneukirchen is pretty far from France.

BGuttman · by **BGuttman** » 2020-08-04 11:19 a.m.

I find it hard yo believe that in a country the size of France you can't find a good tech. Who does work for the Paris Opera? Students at the Conservatoire?

Note: If you try the brass or bronze wool, get a fine grade. Or you can try a really fine grade Scotch Brite (white or gray).

mickael57280 · by **mickael57280** » 2020-08-04 11:23 a.m.

Never said it was no good tech.

Said that they don't get as far as what I've seen in the US.

Only know tech near from my hometown, and don't think big names of classical orchestra play on vintage horns...

Doug_Elliott · by **Doug_Elliott** » 2020-08-04 11:30 a.m.

It would not surprise me if some "big names of classical orchestra" play on vintage horns.

The light gray Scotchbrite, Ultrafine grade, will polish chrome well. It's silicon carbide, which is harder than chrome so it is abrasive on chrome but the grit is small enough that it will take out scratches without adding new ones. You can also safely use it inside the outer tubes, on a cleaning rod, with soap and water. But only it you know it's the Ultrafine grade.

SwissTbone · by **SwissTbone** » 2020-08-04 12:35 p.m.

[quote="micka572"]No one to recommand in Europe ?[/quote]

Servette Music in Geneva, Switzerland. The makers of the Hagmann valve.

Lots of French players go there.

Crazy4Tbone86 · by **Crazy4Tbone86** » 2020-08-05 9:10 p.m.

Yes, Servette Music in Geneva is a great suggestion!

Also, Vincent Liaudet has some trombone repair videos on YouTube and appears to well verse in trombone tech work. It looks like the store he works in is: Musique & Son Located at: Rue du Milieu 24, 1401 Yverdon-les-Bains, Suisse

Yverdon-les-Bains appears to only be about 10 km from the French border.

micka572 · by **micka572** » 2020-08-07 8:27 a.m.

Steel wool must be used dry or wet ?

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2020-08-07 9:08 a.m.

After living in Japan for over a year, I can wholeheartedly recommend Uniqlo and MUJI for inner wear!!

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2020-08-07 11:18 a.m.

[quote="harrisonreed"]After living in Japan for over a year, I can wholeheartedly recommend Uniqlo and MUJI for inner wear!![/quote]

:???:

harrisonreed · by **harrisonreed** » 2020-08-07 8:09 p.m.

[quote="Posaunus"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="122072" time="1596805734" user_id="3642">
After living in Japan for over a year, I can wholeheartedly recommend Uniqlo and MUJI for inner wear!![/quote]

:???:
</QUOTE>

The thread asked for suggestions for inner wear...so I thought...

Oh wait they weren't talking about clothes...

Posaunus · by **Posaunus** » 2020-08-07 8:27 p.m.

[quote="harrisonreed"]<QUOTE author="Posaunus" post_id="122081" time="1596813495" user_id="158">

:???:[/quote]
The thread asked for suggestions for inner wear...so I thought...

Oh wait they weren't talking about clothes...
</QUOTE>

Obi serious!

Crazy4Tbone86 · by **Crazy4Tbone86** » 2020-08-07 11:06 p.m.

Steel wool can be used wet or dry. You must rub the steel wool in the same "up and down" direction that the outer slide moves. If you move the steel wool in a circular motion around the slide, it will cut grooves in the slide.

JohnL · by **JohnL** » 2020-08-08 2:17 a.m.

[quote="Crazy4Tbone86"]Steel wool can be used wet or dry. You must rub the steel wool in the same "up and down" direction that the outer slide moves. If you move the steel wool in a circular motion around the slide, it will cut grooves in the slide.[/quote]
It'll leave scratches no matter what direction you move in...

but...

scratches parallel to the direction of the slide motion generally don't cause problems.

micka572 · by **micka572** » 2020-08-08 7:10 a.m.

Have you experience with crumpled aluminium foil?

Crazy4Tbone86 · by **Crazy4Tbone86** » 2020-08-08 10:51 a.m.

[quote="JohnL"]<QUOTE author="Crazy4Tbone86" post_id="122158" time="1596856014" user_id="8392">
Steel wool can be used wet or dry. You must rub the steel wool in the same "up and down" direction that the outer slide moves. If you move the steel wool in a circular motion around the slide, it will cut grooves in the slide.[/quote]
It'll leave scratches no matter what direction you move in...

but...

scratches parallel to the direction of the slide motion generally don't cause problems.
</QUOTE>

Yes JohnL, you are correct. The secret is to use steel wool that is EXTREMELY FINE so that the scratches are microscopic. I would never use a coarse steel wool, it would gouge the inner slide.

Still.....even with a very fine grade of steel wool, my advice is to move the steel wool in the same direction that the outer slide moves.

biggiesmalls · by **biggiesmalls** » 2020-08-21 10:45 p.m.

I like 3M polishing paper, 4000/6000/8000 grit. Very effective for polishing inners and pretty much any other unlacquered part of a horn. Two 8.5" x 11" sheets each of six grits (600-8000) for USD$12:

<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.riogrande.com/product/3m-tr ... ent/337308">https://www.riogrande.com/product/3m-tri-m-ite-polishing-paper-assortment/337308</LINK_TEXT>

I cut each sheet into sixteen 2 1/8" x 2 3/4" pieces, ending up with 32 usable pieces of each grit. Sometimes I cut two 2 1/8" x 5 1/2" strips off of one side of a sheet for hand-ragging tubing. The paper is surprisingly durable.

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Advice needed on inner wear