Shortening Bach 42 Oversleeves
- billyball
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Jul 07, 2018
Hi,
Has anyone tried shortening or removing the nickel oversleeves on a Bach 42 slide?
Was it worth it? Improved response? Too brilliant?
Thanks.
Has anyone tried shortening or removing the nickel oversleeves on a Bach 42 slide?
Was it worth it? Improved response? Too brilliant?
Thanks.
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Get yourself a LT outer slide and test it out. It's essentially the same slide with no oversleeves (and with nickel-silver tubes).
The difference is going to be subtle. You probably won't have one of those "bam!" experiences.
I would either keep the oversleeves or remove them entirely. Too much effort to remove the oversleeves, cut them down, and reinstall.
The difference is going to be subtle. You probably won't have one of those "bam!" experiences.
I would either keep the oversleeves or remove them entirely. Too much effort to remove the oversleeves, cut them down, and reinstall.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
The Bach LT slide is a totally different monster than a stock slide with short oversleeves.
It shouldn't be impossible for a good tech to desolder them, cut them down, and put the slide back together. I recently had a 42 slide that this was done to.
That said, I didn't notice a huge difference because of that change (it had a Conn crook, narrow, different leadpipe). The outer slide weight didn't feel that different from stock.
It shouldn't be impossible for a good tech to desolder them, cut them down, and put the slide back together. I recently had a 42 slide that this was done to.
That said, I didn't notice a huge difference because of that change (it had a Conn crook, narrow, different leadpipe). The outer slide weight didn't feel that different from stock.
- Bonearzt
- Posts: 833
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
Actually it IS a rather big deal to mod the oversleeves.
Anytime you mess with the hand brace you will need to spend time re-aligning everything relative to the crook. And possibly the inner slide assembly.
That said, removing or shortening the sleeves on a standard slide mayresult in a subtle change in both slide weight and response.
Whether that's noticeable or not is up to the player, mostly a slight change in articulations being easier or quicker.
Eric
Anytime you mess with the hand brace you will need to spend time re-aligning everything relative to the crook. And possibly the inner slide assembly.
That said, removing or shortening the sleeves on a standard slide mayresult in a subtle change in both slide weight and response.
Whether that's noticeable or not is up to the player, mostly a slight change in articulations being easier or quicker.
Eric
- billyball
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Jul 07, 2018
Hi,
Bruce, I like the response of LT slides but find they add too much "hardness" to the sound.
Eric, do you think I'd be better off just buying a lightweight Edwards or Shires slide?
Thanks for the responses!
Bruce, I like the response of LT slides but find they add too much "hardness" to the sound.
Eric, do you think I'd be better off just buying a lightweight Edwards or Shires slide?
Thanks for the responses!
- Bonearzt
- Posts: 833
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="billyball"]Hi,
Bruce, I like the response of LT slides but find they add too much "hardness" to the sound.
Eric, do you think I'd be better off just buying a lightweight Edwards or Shires slide?
Thanks for the responses![/quote]
Hi Billy, no as LT slides are different materials are used throughout.
LT slides usually use nickel tubing which is more brittle resulting in the more "present" sound and more pointed articulations, same with the crook, and a nickel crook also may add a bit of resistance to the blow of the slide. Good or bas is up to you.
Eric
Bruce, I like the response of LT slides but find they add too much "hardness" to the sound.
Eric, do you think I'd be better off just buying a lightweight Edwards or Shires slide?
Thanks for the responses![/quote]
Hi Billy, no as LT slides are different materials are used throughout.
LT slides usually use nickel tubing which is more brittle resulting in the more "present" sound and more pointed articulations, same with the crook, and a nickel crook also may add a bit of resistance to the blow of the slide. Good or bas is up to you.
Eric
- Matt_K
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: Mar 21, 2018
[quote="billyball"]Hi,
Bruce, I like the response of LT slides but find they add too much "hardness" to the sound.
Eric, do you think I'd be better off just buying a lightweight Edwards or Shires slide?
Thanks for the responses![/quote]
I was actually typing that recommendation and got sidetracked (light weight Shires or Edwards). A TB47LWLYC is the rough equivalent of a Bach slide in shires nomenclature; it's bach length (a little longer than a regular Shires slide), yellow crook, but without oversleeves. I actually quite like the nickel crook on a lightweight slide though I normally play a T47LW when I'm on that bore size. That's conn width. It's impossible to recommend an exact fit but in reality, I've swapped out a number of slides for Shires or Edwards slides over the years and have yet to have it NOT make at least a little improvement --- of course the caveat is that it works for me and might not for you. I think part of that might be that those slides also have interchangeable leadpipes but also that I tend to do well with a nickel crook, which is the default option for most slides from both of those companies.
Bruce, I like the response of LT slides but find they add too much "hardness" to the sound.
Eric, do you think I'd be better off just buying a lightweight Edwards or Shires slide?
Thanks for the responses![/quote]
I was actually typing that recommendation and got sidetracked (light weight Shires or Edwards). A TB47LWLYC is the rough equivalent of a Bach slide in shires nomenclature; it's bach length (a little longer than a regular Shires slide), yellow crook, but without oversleeves. I actually quite like the nickel crook on a lightweight slide though I normally play a T47LW when I'm on that bore size. That's conn width. It's impossible to recommend an exact fit but in reality, I've swapped out a number of slides for Shires or Edwards slides over the years and have yet to have it NOT make at least a little improvement --- of course the caveat is that it works for me and might not for you. I think part of that might be that those slides also have interchangeable leadpipes but also that I tend to do well with a nickel crook, which is the default option for most slides from both of those companies.
- pedrombon
- Posts: 417
- Joined: Apr 11, 2018
I own a Bach 42 slide with nickel tubes, M&K Drawing 3" nickel oversleeves, and yellow brass bass crook and it works really great. Fast and easy response, and very solid sound in ff or fff dynamics. Removable leadpipes.
http://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=5936
http://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=5936
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
To offer a dissent of sorts, I kinda hate lightweight slides. I don’t really like nickel parts on horns, it seems that I can never really get them to vibrate well to my liking. I’ve played many an Edwards lightweight slide on a Bach 42 (essentially a brass slide with no oversleeves). Those always break apart on me with little warning. I am 100% certain that this is entirely my fault as a player, but I prefer a heavier slide if anything. I prefer my older Bach slides that have the longer equal length oversleeves. I’ve also bee recently using a slide that has a TIS mechanism on it and it makes me even happier. YMMV
To borrow the best summary: try everything, use what works.
Cheers,
Andy
To borrow the best summary: try everything, use what works.
Cheers,
Andy
- whitbey
- Posts: 654
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="elmsandr"]To offer a dissent of sorts, I kinda hate lightweight slides. I don’t really like nickel parts on horns, it seems that I can never really get them to vibrate well to my liking. I’ve played many an Edwards lightweight slide on a Bach 42 (essentially a brass slide with no oversleeves). Those always break apart on me with little warning. I am 100% certain that this is entirely my fault as a player, but I prefer a heavier slide if anything. I prefer my older Bach slides that have the longer equal length oversleeves. I’ve also bee recently using a slide that has a TIS mechanism on it and it makes me even happier. YMMV
To borrow the best summary: try everything, use what works.
Cheers,
Andy[/quote]
I would agree about a nickel slide on a brass bell. The sound gets bright and does not hold up. I have a nickel slide that is paired with a sterling silver bell. That slide brightens up the nice dark sterling sound. The sterling silver bell holds up though anything with not even an edge so the slide does not need the sleeves. Put that nickle slide on a brass bell and you feel like a child abandoned you.
To borrow the best summary: try everything, use what works.
Cheers,
Andy[/quote]
I would agree about a nickel slide on a brass bell. The sound gets bright and does not hold up. I have a nickel slide that is paired with a sterling silver bell. That slide brightens up the nice dark sterling sound. The sterling silver bell holds up though anything with not even an edge so the slide does not need the sleeves. Put that nickle slide on a brass bell and you feel like a child abandoned you.
- mrdeacon
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: May 08, 2018
[quote="elmsandr"]To offer a dissent of sorts, I kinda hate lightweight slides. ... I’ve played many an Edwards lightweight slide on a Bach 42 (essentially a brass slide with no oversleeves). Those always break apart on me with little warning. I am 100% certain that this is entirely my fault as a player, but I prefer a heavier slide if anything. I prefer my older Bach slides that have the longer equal length oversleeves.
...[/quote]
I agree with Andy, I hate lightweight slides! I have never gotten along well with them.
Ironically both the horns I own have lightweight slides :pant: My Rath R1 has a nickel lightweight slide and my Minick has a partial lightweight slide with no oversleeve on the top tube and one long oversleeve on the bottom tube.
Sometimes a horn as a whole works really well with a lightweight slide but sometimes they just don't work at all with lightweight slides. You honestly don't know if it'll work well till you try it!
...[/quote]
I agree with Andy, I hate lightweight slides! I have never gotten along well with them.
Ironically both the horns I own have lightweight slides :pant: My Rath R1 has a nickel lightweight slide and my Minick has a partial lightweight slide with no oversleeve on the top tube and one long oversleeve on the bottom tube.
Sometimes a horn as a whole works really well with a lightweight slide but sometimes they just don't work at all with lightweight slides. You honestly don't know if it'll work well till you try it!
- btone
- Posts: 125
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
mrdeacon referenced a Minick slide with no upper oversleeve but one on the bottom tube. That made me curious; Is this a 42 or a 50 slide? Does it have any kind of playing characteristics that are notable or different from having two oversleeves? Thanks
- btone
- Posts: 125
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
From mrdeacon's post under "Shortening Over Sleeves" thread. He describes playing characteristics of the Minick slide in question as follows:
"I have a original Minick slide with only one sleeve. It plays really well. Gets the best of both worlds. Little more open and lively but still slots well. It is a little squirrelier than a slide with both sleeves. Doesn't lighten up the slide as much as taking off both sleeves of course..."
"I have a original Minick slide with only one sleeve. It plays really well. Gets the best of both worlds. Little more open and lively but still slots well. It is a little squirrelier than a slide with both sleeves. Doesn't lighten up the slide as much as taking off both sleeves of course..."