Miller Valves

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Crazy4Tbone86
Posts: 1654
Joined: Jan 14, 2020

by Crazy4Tbone86 »

In the late 1990s and early 2000s, the Miller Valve was offered for .547 tenors and .562 bass trombones. It was an after-market product made by Robert M. Miller in St. Louis, MO. The patent was # 5798471. The patent was filed in 1997 and accepted a year later. The valve looked very similar to the Bach K-valve, but had a different port arrangement. Here is a link to one currently selling on Reverb....

<LINK_TEXT text="https://reverb.com/item/35098398-bach-s ... ller-valve">https://reverb.com/item/35098398-bach-strad-42-1990-1994-professional-stradivarius-model-42-trombone-with-miller-valve</LINK_TEXT>

I am intrigued by these valves, but there seems to be very few out there. If you have seen one (inside and out), owned one, played on one, known somebody who played on one, etc...., please offer information. Thanks!
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Elow
Posts: 1924
Joined: Mar 02, 2020

by Elow »

I saw someone posting their new trombone with these types of valves in a facebook group. I don’t remember the brand but it was something i never heard of before.
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BGuttman
Posts: 7368
Joined: Mar 22, 2018

by BGuttman »

I tried the K valve when it first came out. My big problem with it (and the Miller Valve) was that the thing dug into my neck. Very uncomfortable.
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tombone21
Posts: 208
Joined: Nov 14, 2018

by tombone21 »

Interesting design for sure, especially in a time when people were beginning to look for alternatives to traditional rotary valves. Here's a link to view the now-defunct millervalve.com, I'm bringing this over from my comment on a K valve thread earlier today.

[url]<LINK_TEXT text="https://web.archive.org/web/20070625075 ... /tech.html">https://web.archive.org/web/20070625075803/http://www.millervalve.com/tech.html</LINK_TEXT>
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Crazy4Tbone86
Posts: 1654
Joined: Jan 14, 2020

by Crazy4Tbone86 »

[quote="BGuttman"]I tried the K valve when it first came out. My big problem with it (and the Miller Valve) was that the thing dug into my neck. Very uncomfortable.[/quote]

Yes Bruce, the Miller valve in particular does look like it had some ergonomics problems. With the use of some S-bend tubings, it certainly looks like the wrap could have been constructed in a much better way.

Did you actually try a Miller valve horn? If yes, do you remember anything about how it played (acoustically, not ergonomically)?
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Posaunus
Posts: 5018
Joined: Mar 23, 2018

by Posaunus »

[quote="tombone21"]Here's a link to view the now-defunct millervalve.com.

[url]<LINK_TEXT text="https://web.archive.org/web/20070625075 ... /tech.html">https://web.archive.org/web/20070625075803/http://www.millervalve.com/tech.html</LINK_TEXT>[/quote]

What was the date that document was published?
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BGuttman
Posts: 7368
Joined: Mar 22, 2018

by BGuttman »

[quote="Crazy4Tbone86"]<QUOTE author="BGuttman" post_id="122935" time="1597619843" user_id="53">
I tried the K valve when it first came out. My big problem with it (and the Miller Valve) was that the thing dug into my neck. Very uncomfortable.[/quote]

Yes Bruce, the Miller valve in particular does look like it had some ergonomics problems. With the use of some S-bend tubings, it certainly looks like the wrap could have been constructed in a much better way.

Did you actually try a Miller valve horn? If yes, do you remember anything about how it played (acoustically, not ergonomically)?
</QUOTE>

At the time Osmun only had the K valve 42. Never got a chance to try a Miller. The K was pretty open. Those were the days we were all going from the awful 42B valve (undersize rotor) to the Thayer and Bach was trying to get back in the game with the K.
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Doug_Elliott
Posts: 4155
Joined: Mar 22, 2018

by Doug_Elliott »

If you want an interesting piece of trombone history that's not a bad price at all.
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Posaunus
Posts: 5018
Joined: Mar 23, 2018

by Posaunus »

[quote="Doug Elliott"]If you want an interesting piece of trombone history that's not a bad price at all.[/quote]

If I had $1,200 to spare, and needed a 0.547" bore trombone, I might be interested. :idk:
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DougHulme
Posts: 558
Joined: Apr 27, 2018

by DougHulme »

I remember having a good look at them and playing on a trombone fitted with them at ITF New Orleans. Later I found a Besson Sovereign Bass Trombone fitted with them over here in the UK. I think the local Brass Band still has it. I did play on that for an hour. Nothing remarkable about the valves (or maybe it was the trombone?). I thought they were kind of cool to look at but found them not as good to play on as the Geo Gravis I compared them to. Not very helpful information I know! I thought the valve that Bach was fitting was the Millar valve - shows what I know!... Chris Stearn might have a better idea as his stand at New Orleans was very close to theirs I cant imagine with his inquiring mind he didnt give them a run out?!... Doug
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Crazy4Tbone86
Posts: 1654
Joined: Jan 14, 2020

by Crazy4Tbone86 »

[quote="Doug Elliott"]If you want an interesting piece of trombone history that's not a bad price at all.[/quote]

The question is......do you want to own a good piece of history or a bad piece of history? I guess I'm still looking for more answers.
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Basbasun
Posts: 496
Joined: Mar 26, 2018

by Basbasun »

Wow If I was younger I might buy it But not now, it coud be stuck in Chicago for twa and a half month. I think it is a good buy! The Besson trombones I meet did not make me happy. No matter the valve-
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FOSSIL
Posts: 688
Joined: Jul 09, 2019

by FOSSIL »

[quote="DougHulme"]I remember having a good look at them and playing on a trombone fitted with them at ITF New Orleans. Later I found a Besson Sovereign Bass Trombone fitted with them over here in the UK. I think the local Brass Band still has it. I did play on that for an hour. Nothing remarkable about the valves (or maybe it was the trombone?). I thought they were kind of cool to look at but found them not as good to play on as the Geo Gravis I compared them to. Not very helpful information I know! I thought the valve that Bach was fitting was the Millar valve - shows what I know!... Chris Stearn might have a better idea as his stand at New Orleans was very close to theirs I cant imagine with his inquiring mind he didnt give them a run out?!... Doug[/quote]

Ha ha !! You know me too well Doug. I have to say that I was pretty underwhelmed at the time. Not particularly free blowing and pretty heavy. They seemed to be very well made but there were better designs out there.

Chris
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Millerman
Posts: 1
Joined: Sep 24, 2020

by Millerman »

I thought I'd post this for the record. I play on a Miller double valve bass trombone. One of only three or four (or so I've been told). The valves have the horizontal orientation not vertical as I've seen. It has a Bach 10.5 inch gold Brass bell and an Edwards Dual bore slide. I never played it before I bought it, but once I saw it I knew I had to have it. The valve set is heavy and a pain to repair, but It seems to work for me. Please feel free to ask any questions you have and I am happy to include pictures.
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Jesperiank
Posts: 4
Joined: Jan 12, 2020

by Jesperiank »

[quote="Millerman"]I thought I'd post this for the record. I play on a Miller double valve bass trombone. One of only three or four (or so I've been told). The valves have the horizontal orientation not vertical as I've seen. It has a Bach 10.5 inch gold Brass bell and an Edwards Dual bore slide. I never played it before I bought it, but once I saw it I knew I had to have it. The valve set is heavy and a pain to repair, but It seems to work for me. Please feel free to ask any questions you have and I am happy to include pictures.[/quote]

Sorry to dig up the topic, but out of curiosity I would be really interested in seeing photos of your trombone! Many thanks =)
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Jbeckett
Posts: 1194
Joined: Mar 25, 2018

by Jbeckett »

I’d be curious as well, in seeing pics of that double valve bass.
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elmsandr
Posts: 1373
Joined: Mar 23, 2018

by elmsandr »

I'm curious as well, the only Miller double I've seen was the version in their literature:

<ATTACHMENT filename="bach50v2_assembled.jpg" index="0">[attachment=0]bach50v2_assembled.jpg</ATTACHMENT>

Cheers,

Andy
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Burgerbob
Posts: 6327
Joined: Apr 23, 2018

by Burgerbob »

[quote="elmsandr"]I'm curious as well, the only Miller double I've seen was the version in their literature:

bach50v2_assembled.jpg

Cheers,

Andy[/quote]

Oh man. I have a feeling this bell section wouldn't fit in any case, ever.
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whitbey
Posts: 654
Joined: Mar 23, 2018

by whitbey »

At some point not only does the valve cut into your neck, but you have extra weight to hold and carry.