5 Valve euphonium
- Elow
- Posts: 1924
- Joined: Mar 02, 2020
Im having a couple valves on my euphonium have to be ordered and so i was wondering if i could order another 4 valve and put it right beneath and tune it to Gb like a bass trombone. Has anyone done this? Theres not really a practical reason like there is on bass trombone, but it would be nice to have more options. Im probably not going to do it because 1. theres no reason and 2. i have no money for it.
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
It's already compensating, right? If so, definitely don't do that.
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
One reason to do this would be if you want a non-compensating euph and you want 5 valves to match some tuba fingerings.
Or to build a custom double bell euph.
Both would not be terribly valuable to the horn or the world of euphoniums in general. Fun? Maybe.
Cheers,
Andy
Or to build a custom double bell euph.
Both would not be terribly valuable to the horn or the world of euphoniums in general. Fun? Maybe.
Cheers,
Andy
- Finetales
- Posts: 1482
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
J. Higham and Besson built 3+2 5-valve non-compensating euphoniums around the turn of the century. I don't know what the 5th valve was tuned in but I'd imagine it matched how most 5th valves are tuned (flat whole step).
Making the 5th valve the same as 2-3 wouldn't be beneficial. You could make the 5th valve a perfect 5th like the 6th valve on a French C tuba, but a flat whole step is probably the most useful thing to do on a non-compensating instrument.
But yeah, there's no point doing it on a compensating instrument unless the 5th valve activates a second bell.
Making the 5th valve the same as 2-3 wouldn't be beneficial. You could make the 5th valve a perfect 5th like the 6th valve on a French C tuba, but a flat whole step is probably the most useful thing to do on a non-compensating instrument.
But yeah, there's no point doing it on a compensating instrument unless the 5th valve activates a second bell.
- Kdanielsen
- Posts: 609
- Joined: Jul 28, 2019
A non compensated 5 valve horn would be great. I’ve seen a few yamahas set up that way.
- mbarbier
- Posts: 367
- Joined: May 17, 2018
I've got the plug in dependent valve for the Yamaha 321. it's a nice option that makes the low range work well and feels less fussy to me for doubling than a compensating horn.
- whitbey
- Posts: 654
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
I think the best valve tuning for a slide is different then valves. Tubas seem to find a flat first valve works better.
On my non compensating euph I have a lever on the main tuning slide that gets me in tune.
On my non compensating euph I have a lever on the main tuning slide that gets me in tune.
- Vegasbound
- Posts: 1328
- Joined: Jul 06, 2019
There are 5 valve eeuphs in existence, made early 20th century
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="Vegasbound"]There are 5 valve eeuphs in existence, made early 20th century[/quote]
Almost all of the ones I've seen were 4 tubing and one for switching bells.
The Compensating system basically made 5 tubing valves unnecessary.
But rotary valve Euphs were not usually compensated and a 5th valve might have been useful. Never seen one, though.
Almost all of the ones I've seen were 4 tubing and one for switching bells.
The Compensating system basically made 5 tubing valves unnecessary.
But rotary valve Euphs were not usually compensated and a 5th valve might have been useful. Never seen one, though.
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
- tbonesullivan
- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Jul 02, 2019
[quote="elmsandr"]Miraphone still makes one...
[url]<LINK_TEXT text="https://www.miraphone.de/instruments/ba ... t-4-valves">https://www.miraphone.de/instruments/baritone/c-kaiser-baritone-upright-4-valves</LINK_TEXT>
Cheers,
Andy[/quote] I've always been confused with how close the "Kaiser Baritone" is to a euphonium. They look relatively conical bored, and might better be termed a tenor tuba. They do have a 5 valve version , but I don't know how popular they are.
Cheers,
Andy[/quote] I've always been confused with how close the "Kaiser Baritone" is to a euphonium. They look relatively conical bored, and might better be termed a tenor tuba. They do have a 5 valve version , but I don't know how popular they are.
- marccromme
- Posts: 457
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
And of course the famous Alexander 151, which can be ordered with modern 5 valve in one hand setup, either large half, or large whole step in the fifth valve. <LINK_TEXT text="https://gebr-alexander.de/en/portfolio- ... model-151/">https://gebr-alexander.de/en/portfolio-item/bb-baritone-tuba-%C2%B7-model-151/</LINK_TEXT> You can also have it in 4+1 setup.
- marccromme
- Posts: 457
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
And the Cerveny CEP 533 5L, the 1+4 version with large half step, I forgot to mention above. No idea how it plays... <LINK_TEXT text="http://www.vfcerveny.cz/en/rotary-valve ... -cep-533-4">http://www.vfcerveny.cz/en/rotary-valve/baritones/item/134-cep-533-4</LINK_TEXT>
- marccromme
- Posts: 457
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
And as an oddity, Latzsch in Bremen once did build a 4 valve compensated rotary euphonium with carbon valves. Unfortunately, the picture got lost after they remodelled their web site some 6 years ago. These are extremely rare..
- marccromme
- Posts: 457
- Joined: Mar 30, 2018
[quote="BGuttman"]The Compensating system basically made 5 tubing valves unnecessary.[/quote]
Well as a Meinl and Weston Eb tuba model 2141 player, i dontt agree. 5 valve tubas tend to have a more open lower range, and better intonation, especially if the tuba is in the 0+5 setup, and the 4th valve slide is easily adjustable.
I can strip paint from the walls in the very low range in a way my Besson and Sovereign, Yamaha and Miraphone 3+1 compensator collegues can't.
After all, the Blakeley system runs out of steam the last two to three notes before the pedals, the tubing just gets too short there. And it is essentially a 2*3 +1 = 7 valve setup, with all the extra bends and resistance. And no easy access to slide manipulation. Here a trigger helps.
That said, the compensated 3+1 setup has more ergonomic fingerings in the very low range, which is probably the reason why GB competition Brass Band players prefer the Blakely 3+1 compensators.
So, they behave quite different, and each system has its own advantages.
Well as a Meinl and Weston Eb tuba model 2141 player, i dontt agree. 5 valve tubas tend to have a more open lower range, and better intonation, especially if the tuba is in the 0+5 setup, and the 4th valve slide is easily adjustable.
I can strip paint from the walls in the very low range in a way my Besson and Sovereign, Yamaha and Miraphone 3+1 compensator collegues can't.
After all, the Blakeley system runs out of steam the last two to three notes before the pedals, the tubing just gets too short there. And it is essentially a 2*3 +1 = 7 valve setup, with all the extra bends and resistance. And no easy access to slide manipulation. Here a trigger helps.
That said, the compensated 3+1 setup has more ergonomic fingerings in the very low range, which is probably the reason why GB competition Brass Band players prefer the Blakely 3+1 compensators.
So, they behave quite different, and each system has its own advantages.