Getting past mental blocks
- mrdeacon
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: May 08, 2018
Hi guys!
Hey, I'm curious... Are there any teachers out there who specialize in getting a student past mental blocks in their playing?
I've taken lessons with a number of high level teachers over the years but I'm wondering if there is anyone who has a pedogagy for getting someone out of their head. I don't think any of my teachers (except one) had any advice to offer other than to relax. Maybe it's that simple :pant:
I'm asking for a friend :shuffle:
This topic doesn't just need to be about names but of course can expand to your own methods for getting past mental blocks in your playing!
Hey, I'm curious... Are there any teachers out there who specialize in getting a student past mental blocks in their playing?
I've taken lessons with a number of high level teachers over the years but I'm wondering if there is anyone who has a pedogagy for getting someone out of their head. I don't think any of my teachers (except one) had any advice to offer other than to relax. Maybe it's that simple :pant:
I'm asking for a friend :shuffle:
This topic doesn't just need to be about names but of course can expand to your own methods for getting past mental blocks in your playing!
- Elow
- Posts: 1924
- Joined: Mar 02, 2020
Sounds kinda silly, but i eat ice cream. Just getting my mind off of it and then warming back up when i’m in a better mood helps a lot. Might not work for you, but it does for me.
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
"Mental blocks" are sometimes physical blocks that have become mental. And sometimes the reverse is true too.
The way I play, and teach, is to make sure the physical stuff is out of the way first. Then you can just play at your best.
The way I play, and teach, is to make sure the physical stuff is out of the way first. Then you can just play at your best.
- mrdeacon
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: May 08, 2018
[quote="Doug Elliott"]"Mental blocks" are sometimes physical blocks that have become mental. And sometimes the reverse is true too.
The way I play, and teach, is to make sure the physical stuff is out of the way first. Then you can just play at your best.[/quote]
Hi Doug!
I think you're right. I feel that my problems were intitially physical/chop issues which have now switched to becoming something mental.
I've recently been playing some socially distanced duets and quintets and the issues that have been plauging me in individual practice the past month or two seem to be much less prevelant. All the lessons I've taken with you seem to kick in and the chops work how they should.
Strange... but maybe the solution is just more playing and nothing exactly I need to "fix".
The way I play, and teach, is to make sure the physical stuff is out of the way first. Then you can just play at your best.[/quote]
Hi Doug!
I think you're right. I feel that my problems were intitially physical/chop issues which have now switched to becoming something mental.
I've recently been playing some socially distanced duets and quintets and the issues that have been plauging me in individual practice the past month or two seem to be much less prevelant. All the lessons I've taken with you seem to kick in and the chops work how they should.
Strange... but maybe the solution is just more playing and nothing exactly I need to "fix".
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Jan Kagarice
- Doug_Elliott
- Posts: 4155
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
[quote="mrdeacon"]Hi Doug!
I think you're right. I feel that my problems were intitially physical/chop issues which have now switched to becoming something mental.
I've recently been playing some socially distanced duets and quintets and the issues that have been plauging me in individual practice the past month or two seem to be much less prevelant. All the lessons I've taken with you seem to kick in and the chops work how they should.
Strange... but maybe the solution is just more playing and nothing exactly I need to "fix".[/quote]
Fixing stuff in the practice room is necessary, and time well spent, but then you have to forget all that and just play.
I think you're right. I feel that my problems were intitially physical/chop issues which have now switched to becoming something mental.
I've recently been playing some socially distanced duets and quintets and the issues that have been plauging me in individual practice the past month or two seem to be much less prevelant. All the lessons I've taken with you seem to kick in and the chops work how they should.
Strange... but maybe the solution is just more playing and nothing exactly I need to "fix".[/quote]
Fixing stuff in the practice room is necessary, and time well spent, but then you have to forget all that and just play.
- mrdeacon
- Posts: 1225
- Joined: May 08, 2018
[quote="harrisonreed"]Jan Kagarice[/quote]
I've heard of her before but never looked into her teaching. I might check her out at some point.
And very sage advice Doug!
I've heard of her before but never looked into her teaching. I might check her out at some point.
And very sage advice Doug!
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
[quote="mrdeacon"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="124429" time="1599020210" user_id="3642">
Jan Kagarice[/quote]
I've heard of her before but never looked into her teaching. I might check her out at some point.
And very sage advice Doug!
</QUOTE>
She is a specialist in focal dystonia. When I heard about focal dystonia, which encompasses all sorts of issues that on the surface appear to be physical, I thought "wow that is just someone who can't play". But no. Look into David Vining. He is someone who clearly knew how to play, had major issues, and then figured out how to play again with a different approach. When you've played trombone at that level for so long and suddenly every time you go up to make an embouchure you have a duck face, even though you know perfectly well what your embouchure should be, and even before the mouthpiece is on your face, that's a mental block. Jan helps with that. David also has written a book about it.
A friend of mine who worked with Jan said she takes it back to extreme basics, and the process was completely unlike what he was expecting.
Jan Kagarice[/quote]
I've heard of her before but never looked into her teaching. I might check her out at some point.
And very sage advice Doug!
</QUOTE>
She is a specialist in focal dystonia. When I heard about focal dystonia, which encompasses all sorts of issues that on the surface appear to be physical, I thought "wow that is just someone who can't play". But no. Look into David Vining. He is someone who clearly knew how to play, had major issues, and then figured out how to play again with a different approach. When you've played trombone at that level for so long and suddenly every time you go up to make an embouchure you have a duck face, even though you know perfectly well what your embouchure should be, and even before the mouthpiece is on your face, that's a mental block. Jan helps with that. David also has written a book about it.
A friend of mine who worked with Jan said she takes it back to extreme basics, and the process was completely unlike what he was expecting.
- MagnumH
- Posts: 209
- Joined: Mar 06, 2020
Check out The Chops Shop on YouTube as well, by Dion Tucker (I think). He’s a jazz guy, played with Lincoln Center, then got done in focal dystopia and had to go the whole journey. It’s a lot of good info about the mental and physical side of trombone playing - how to relax, how to think, and how to deal with issues that go beyond simply being able to play.
- ArbanRubank
- Posts: 424
- Joined: Feb 23, 2019
[quote="MagnumH"]Check out The Chops Shop on YouTube as well, by Dion Tucker (I think). He’s a jazz guy, played with Lincoln Center, then got done in focal dystopia and had to go the whole journey. It’s a lot of good info about the mental and physical side of trombone playing - how to relax, how to think, and how to deal with issues that go beyond simply being able to play.[/quote]
Link found here:
https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16407
Link found here:
https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16407
- Wilktone
- Posts: 720
- Joined: Mar 27, 2018
[quote="Burgerbob"]What kind of mental blocks, exactly?[/quote]
That's my question too. "Mental block" is used as a catch-all that really needs to be more specifically defined before anyone can offer any real advice.
There's a lot of pop psychology stuff that purports to help people with mental blocks. Some of it is good, a lot of it is not. If someone has a serious issue (e.g., severe performance anxiety), then it's worth getting the help of a mental health professional. They don't need to specialize in helping musicians, simply use science-based, proven techniques.
[quote="Doug Elliott"]"Mental blocks" are sometimes physical blocks that have become mental. And sometimes the reverse is true too.[/quote]
For about a decade I had been told by a few very fine trombone teachers that I was "fighting the horn." I read The Inner Game of Music, Effortless Mastery, Song & Wind, and other books and tried those approaches. Nothing really got me past this block.
In about 30 minutes Doug straightened me out by figuring out what I was physically doing that was incorrect (for me) and showing me how to make it work within my natural tendencies. The sort of "fighting the horn" went away without needing any work on the mental aspect (that decade of practice earlier probably helped, but it was the correction to the physical block that fixed my problem).
[quote="mrdeacon"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="124429" time="1599020210" user_id="3642">
Jan Kagarice[/quote]
I've heard of her before but never looked into her teaching. I might check her out at some point.
</QUOTE>
<LINK_TEXT text="http://www.windsongpress.com/jacobs/wri ... eacher.pdf">http://www.windsongpress.com/jacobs/written/Marston%20-%20Finding%20the%20balance%20Jan%20Kagarice,%20a%20case%20study%20of%20a%20master%20trombone%20teacher.pdf</LINK_TEXT>
Karen Marston wrote her dissertation on Jan Kagarice's pedagogy. I found the appendixes the most interesting part of it. For the record, I don't agree with Marston's summaries of some of the literature and I also don't agree with some of the conclusions that are drawn about focal dystonia, but that's probably biased by my own background. That's also perhaps off topic.
Dave
That's my question too. "Mental block" is used as a catch-all that really needs to be more specifically defined before anyone can offer any real advice.
There's a lot of pop psychology stuff that purports to help people with mental blocks. Some of it is good, a lot of it is not. If someone has a serious issue (e.g., severe performance anxiety), then it's worth getting the help of a mental health professional. They don't need to specialize in helping musicians, simply use science-based, proven techniques.
[quote="Doug Elliott"]"Mental blocks" are sometimes physical blocks that have become mental. And sometimes the reverse is true too.[/quote]
For about a decade I had been told by a few very fine trombone teachers that I was "fighting the horn." I read The Inner Game of Music, Effortless Mastery, Song & Wind, and other books and tried those approaches. Nothing really got me past this block.
In about 30 minutes Doug straightened me out by figuring out what I was physically doing that was incorrect (for me) and showing me how to make it work within my natural tendencies. The sort of "fighting the horn" went away without needing any work on the mental aspect (that decade of practice earlier probably helped, but it was the correction to the physical block that fixed my problem).
[quote="mrdeacon"]<QUOTE author="harrisonreed" post_id="124429" time="1599020210" user_id="3642">
Jan Kagarice[/quote]
I've heard of her before but never looked into her teaching. I might check her out at some point.
</QUOTE>
<LINK_TEXT text="http://www.windsongpress.com/jacobs/wri ... eacher.pdf">http://www.windsongpress.com/jacobs/written/Marston%20-%20Finding%20the%20balance%20Jan%20Kagarice,%20a%20case%20study%20of%20a%20master%20trombone%20teacher.pdf</LINK_TEXT>
Karen Marston wrote her dissertation on Jan Kagarice's pedagogy. I found the appendixes the most interesting part of it. For the record, I don't agree with Marston's summaries of some of the literature and I also don't agree with some of the conclusions that are drawn about focal dystonia, but that's probably biased by my own background. That's also perhaps off topic.
Dave