Darken a 4H?
- Elow
- Posts: 1924
- Joined: Mar 02, 2020
I just got a 4h and its probably the brightest horn ive ever played. The whole thing has had the lacquer stripped and has a nice patina. If theres not an easy way to mellow out the sound, i might just pop the dents out and give it a good clean and sell.
- elmsandr
- Posts: 1373
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
How dark do you expect a .485 bore horn to be?
Cheers,
Andy
Cheers,
Andy
- Elow
- Posts: 1924
- Joined: Mar 02, 2020
I played a couple 2bs and they still werent this bright. Some were silver plated and the reset were just lacquered
- Burgerbob
- Posts: 6327
- Joined: Apr 23, 2018
2B can sound huge, probably a lot of that due to the dual bore (not just straight .485).
- BGuttman
- Posts: 7368
- Joined: Mar 22, 2018
You could try a larger mouthpiece -- that sometimes mellows out the tone.
Stripping the lacquer is absolutely going in the wrong direction. Bare brass and silver plate tend to be brighter.
You could also try more finesse and less air.
Stripping the lacquer is absolutely going in the wrong direction. Bare brass and silver plate tend to be brighter.
You could also try more finesse and less air.
- hyperbolica
- Posts: 3990
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
Get a 6h. Or an Olds Ambassador. Nice one for sale cheap i hear.
A 4h is never going to sound dark. Don't waste your time or money. Why would you want to? Have you ever tried a 24h? An old one, like from the 30s. That's gonna be like an 4h, but much less bright. Olds horns, even the small bore ones can be very dark. I have a Recording that could pass for a much larger horn. Conn 30h is another option for a small horn that sounds big. Maybe the best bet for a small horn that sounds big is a Bach NY 6. They're all over the place, you can probably get a great horn for $1000.
If you like an 8h with a thayer, just get a Getzen.
There are a lot of horns that already exist. You don't have to pound everything into submission. It sounds like you'll buy anything you hear about on the forum. Better get that under control. You'll have to work 3 jobs to keep up a habit like that.
A 4h is never going to sound dark. Don't waste your time or money. Why would you want to? Have you ever tried a 24h? An old one, like from the 30s. That's gonna be like an 4h, but much less bright. Olds horns, even the small bore ones can be very dark. I have a Recording that could pass for a much larger horn. Conn 30h is another option for a small horn that sounds big. Maybe the best bet for a small horn that sounds big is a Bach NY 6. They're all over the place, you can probably get a great horn for $1000.
If you like an 8h with a thayer, just get a Getzen.
There are a lot of horns that already exist. You don't have to pound everything into submission. It sounds like you'll buy anything you hear about on the forum. Better get that under control. You'll have to work 3 jobs to keep up a habit like that.
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Put on three counterweights. Or, wrap the bell throat with leather or self adhesive tape. If it's still not dark enough, wrap some piano wire pegs over the leather/tape with self adhesive tape. Or, just choose the right tool for the job you want to do. Maybe it's the 4H, but it's probably not. At least these are neat experiments that are fully reversible without ill effect.
Permanently modding instruments that are perfectly designed to do one type of job to do some other job (like putting a Thayer on an 8H) is something that always confused me. CG Conn and his staff, V Bach and his staff, Remington, JJ, Urbie, Alessi, Lindberg, Yeo, Pagano, Wigham, Rath, Shires, Griego, Davis, Oft, and probably a hundred other trombonists and craftsman have already done 99.99% of the work. You can get what you need, guaranteed, from an established design philosophy.
In fact, I still think a King 3B/F SS is like an 85% solution to ANY type of playing. Maybe you need two mouthpieces, maybe. No mod necessary, no other horn necessary unless people are paying to hear you play.
But in the end, you can have the perfect tool for the job and still sound bright. The tools' impact on your playing varies. If you can't play, the tools don't matter. If you can REALLY play, the tools matter a lot. If you can really REALLY play, the tools don't matter hardly at all.
From Aidan's interview with Christian Lindberg, who asked James DePriest after performing the motorbike concerto:
CL "Did you notice anything different from when we rehearsed?"
JDP "maybe... it was a little bit bigger...?"
CL had lost his custom mouthpiece and had to use the bass trombonist's bass mouthpiece for the concerto.
Permanently modding instruments that are perfectly designed to do one type of job to do some other job (like putting a Thayer on an 8H) is something that always confused me. CG Conn and his staff, V Bach and his staff, Remington, JJ, Urbie, Alessi, Lindberg, Yeo, Pagano, Wigham, Rath, Shires, Griego, Davis, Oft, and probably a hundred other trombonists and craftsman have already done 99.99% of the work. You can get what you need, guaranteed, from an established design philosophy.
In fact, I still think a King 3B/F SS is like an 85% solution to ANY type of playing. Maybe you need two mouthpieces, maybe. No mod necessary, no other horn necessary unless people are paying to hear you play.
But in the end, you can have the perfect tool for the job and still sound bright. The tools' impact on your playing varies. If you can't play, the tools don't matter. If you can REALLY play, the tools matter a lot. If you can really REALLY play, the tools don't matter hardly at all.
From Aidan's interview with Christian Lindberg, who asked James DePriest after performing the motorbike concerto:
CL "Did you notice anything different from when we rehearsed?"
JDP "maybe... it was a little bit bigger...?"
CL had lost his custom mouthpiece and had to use the bass trombonist's bass mouthpiece for the concerto.
- Posaunus
- Posts: 5018
- Joined: Mar 23, 2018
[quote="hyperbolica"]Get a 6h. Or an Olds Ambassador. Nice one for sale cheap i hear.
A 4h is never going to sound dark.
Hh with a Thayer, just get a Getzen.[color=#BF0000]Task complete!
There are a lot of horns that already exist.
You don't have to pound everything into submission. It sounds like you'll buy anything you hear about on the forum. Better get that under control. You'll have to work 3 jobs to keep up a habit like that.[/quote]
:good:
A 4h is never going to sound dark.
Hh with a Thayer, just get a Getzen.
There are a lot of horns that already exist.
You don't have to pound everything into submission. It sounds like you'll buy anything you hear about on the forum. Better get that under control. You'll have to work 3 jobs to keep up a habit like that.[/quote]
:good:
- chromebone
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Apr 08, 2018
I second the 24 H suggestion. If you really want the Conn 4h small bore sound but a little darker, the 24 h fits that bill perfectly, and they can be had for a reasonable price. It’s basically the same Bell as the 4H, but the neck pipe is much longer to allow the bell to be moved back closer to the player. Many great players used them, like Sam Nanton, Tommy Pederson and Si Zentner.
Great, great horn.
Great, great horn.
- Elow
- Posts: 1924
- Joined: Mar 02, 2020
[quote="hyperbolica"]Get a 6h. Or an Olds Ambassador. Nice one for sale cheap i hear.
A 4h is never going to sound dark. Don't waste your time or money. Why would you want to? Have you ever tried a 24h? An old one, like from the 30s. That's gonna be like an 4h, but much less bright. Olds horns, even the small bore ones can be very dark. I have a Recording that could pass for a much larger horn. Conn 30h is another option for a small horn that sounds big. Maybe the best bet for a small horn that sounds big is a Bach NY 6. They're all over the place, you can probably get a great horn for $1000.
If you like an 8h with a thayer, just get a Getzen.
There are a lot of horns that already exist. You don't have to pound everything into submission. It sounds like you'll buy anything you hear about on the forum. Better get that under control. You'll have to work 3 jobs to keep up a habit like that.[/quote]
Ive actually got a getzen lined up for me to buy. Looks like ill just sell it. I really just bought it to see if i liked it
A 4h is never going to sound dark. Don't waste your time or money. Why would you want to? Have you ever tried a 24h? An old one, like from the 30s. That's gonna be like an 4h, but much less bright. Olds horns, even the small bore ones can be very dark. I have a Recording that could pass for a much larger horn. Conn 30h is another option for a small horn that sounds big. Maybe the best bet for a small horn that sounds big is a Bach NY 6. They're all over the place, you can probably get a great horn for $1000.
If you like an 8h with a thayer, just get a Getzen.
There are a lot of horns that already exist. You don't have to pound everything into submission. It sounds like you'll buy anything you hear about on the forum. Better get that under control. You'll have to work 3 jobs to keep up a habit like that.[/quote]
Ive actually got a getzen lined up for me to buy. Looks like ill just sell it. I really just bought it to see if i liked it
- harrisonreed
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Aug 17, 2018
Lol Elow, why are you buying horns to try? Save and invest your money. If I had invested $1500 (a trombone) into Amazon when I was 14, I'd be on a beach, and I'd have about $2,000,000
Just try horns as they come through your shop or try horns at other music shops.
Just try horns as they come through your shop or try horns at other music shops.